Immigration charges back again

[lowprofile]

I've had some reasonably pleasant visits to the Immigration Office in Phuket Town in the past year. The volunteers are always helpful and generally pleasant (though the information they give is sometimes inconsistent). Today, though, I'd have to say was disappointing, at the very least. The volunteers were great, I had all my paperwork done and checked ready to get a letter of "proof of address".  There is  (or at least, there used to be) a big sign upstairs outlining service charges and this service is free... "600B", the officer said. "It is free" I replied. "Do you want 2" he asked me? Now, doubt naturally creeps into the mind here, maybe it is charged for now. Even if it isn't, do I want to make trouble for myself? Mmnn, better play safe and hand over the money, see if I get a receipt. Well, of course there was no receipt. What added to my annoyance was that the bloke who went before me asked me, outside,  if I had to pay, "yes" I said, he replied that he refused and had no problem.

I thought long and hard about making a complaint, or at least talking to the volunteers about it but I couldn't see any positives coming from it.

 

So just a heads-up for anyone planning on going down there for the address letters. Just say no when asked for money - and stand your ground.

 

That is one more straw on my back.

[chiang mai]

Free yes, if you want to wait ten days for it. If you want it tomorrow however, 600 baht.

[LivinginKata]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Free yes, if you want to wait ten days for it. If you want it tomorrow however, 600 baht.

 

Not really - just stand your ground and refuse politely. Just say there is no charge ... see how fast they fold.

[chiang mai]

25 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Not really - just stand your ground and refuse politely. Just say there is no charge ... see how fast they fold.

 

Dare I say, Phuket Immi. has much to learn from CM Immi., if indeed you can do that and get it for free, quickly - amateurs.

[LivinginKata]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

Dare I say, Phuket Immi. has much to learn from CM Immi., if indeed you can do that and get it for free, quickly - amateurs.

 

Last year at Patong Immgration an officer was removed from his post (as in transferrd to a less lucrative area) ... just test them if they ask for illegal payments ... see how it goes ...

[Shot]

Any time they ask for a “tip” I say “Hablas español?” and show them a Mexican 100 Peso note. Works every time.

[Psimbo]

It never has gone away- I know some who pay it and others that don't. They size you up at the time, if they know you from the past and you know they are trying it on it doesn't happen. Deer in the headlamps pay. As othrs say, politely stand your ground, ask for a receipt and it will happen

 

I am curious as to why some people feel the need to comment on other Immigration Offices on this Forum- it is specific to Phuket. Other areas of the site are far more suitable for such comments.

[JetsetBkk]

5 hours ago, lowprofile said:

"600B", the officer said. "It is free" I replied.

 

[Off-topic: @Tech Doctor  Why is the quoted text so big in edit mode?

Edit: and in the comment?]

 

I also said it was free and he said ("shouted", more like): "First one free!", implying but not saying that you must pay for others.

 

I caved, gave him 300 baht, no receipt.

 

Double-stupid for me: I should've photocopied the "first one free" and the Driving License people would've accepted them both.

 

Edited August 18, 2016 by JetsetBkk

[louse1953]

You paid,your problem,too late to complain now.Did the officer hold a gun to your head.Just say no.

[Psimbo]

Another alternative- smile politely and say 'Oh that's interesting, when did the policy change, they were always free in the past?'.  I forsee a rapid back-pedal.

 

To be honest if they legitimised it and issued a receipt I would not have issues with it- after all one pays for bank letters, embassy letters, etc. its not the payment that is the problem, its the graft.

 

Equally bad though are the old timers who see nothing wrong in slipping an Imm Officer 100 baht when doing a 90 day or processing other stuff- there's no need for it and they just add to the problem. 

[Peterw42]

Its all fine to say stand your ground, refuse to pay etc. Often the result is another document is "required", one that the immi officer knows you dont have.

[Old Croc]

16 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

Another alternative- smile politely and say 'Oh that's interesting, when did the policy change, they were always free in the past?'.  I forsee a rapid back-pedal.

 

To be honest if they legitimised it and issued a receipt I would not have issues with it- after all one pays for bank letters, embassy letters, etc. its not the payment that is the problem, its the graft.

 

Equally bad though are the old timers who see nothing wrong in slipping an Imm Officer 100 baht when doing a 90 day or processing other stuff- there's no need for it and they just add to the problem. 

Strange, most ageists claim older people are cheap charlies.

Instead of insults based on age, why not simply say that some people are happy to grease palms even when there is no need, and it could exacerbate the problem?

[chiang mai]

Have to say I've never seen nor even heard of people slipping Imm. the odd 100 baht for a 90 day report, why would they, unless they were fresh off the boat and thought that everyone should be tipped and wai'ed.

[ajarnmarc]

1 hour ago, Psimbo said:

Another alternative- smile politely and say 'Oh that's interesting, when did the policy change, they were always free in the past?'.  I forsee a rapid back-pedal.

 

To be honest if they legitimised it and issued a receipt I would not have issues with it- after all one pays for bank letters, embassy letters, etc. its not the payment that is the problem, its the graft.

 

Equally bad though are the old timers who see nothing wrong in slipping an Imm Officer 100 baht when doing a 90 day or processing other stuff- there's no need for it and they just add to the problem. 

I think this last statement has addressed the problem well. 

Those that equally like to pay, make it hard for those don't see a reason why they should pay.

Personally I don't see why we should have to pay for this service...?

I know that if I start paying for this simple form, everywhere else I'll be expected to pay as well, 

for similar forms.

The Thai's love to talk about what they get from naive foreigners, 

and so the cycle continues at every government agency in town.

Dishing out a few thousand dollars a year for visas and the trips to obtain them, 

is enough for me, as I also am expected to pay higher prices on an everyday basis, 

for daily items.

The Thai's consider everything we pay, as being only a little bit for us, 

yet when they are asked to pay the street price, they also balk, 

squirm, and complain. They would prefer we paid for their stuff as well.

After all we are fortunate to be in their warm company, they consider.

I never waste my time asking for discounts on items, 

so I don't take pleasure paying for things or services that should be free.

At the end of the day, by doing so, only makes it harder for the future generations to come.

Edited August 19, 2016 by ajarnmarc

[LivinginKata]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

Have to say I've never seen nor even heard of people slipping Imm. the odd 100 baht for a 90 day report, why would they, unless they were fresh off the boat and thought that everyone should be tipped and wai'ed.

 

I have witnessed first hand many foreigners handing over the odd 100 baht even 1,000 baht over my 20 years visiting Immigration and other government offices. And these are not newbies, old hands who just go with the flow. I can say that I have never paid an illegal fee at Immigration in my 20 years here, I've been asked, always politely pointed out there was no fee. Actually one time at Patong the officer showed me an official fee for an extension, I pointed that  was an extension fee and  asked where was the board price for a proof of residence - he folded immediatey. But interestingly my Thai wife has many times offered 'lunch money' to the Immigration officer. Seems Thai people just accept this corruption without any problem.

 

I would have no problem with an official fee for Immigration paperwork - seems reasonable to me, why should it be free. But this in the pocket fee is not acceptable to me.

Edited August 19, 2016 by LivinginKata

[williamgeorgeallen]

wonder what would happen if you recorded paying the fee on a hidden camera. would be interesting to see the results.

[Old Croc]

A few points from my perspective when it comes to pay, or not pay, illegal fees.

My first ever visit to Phuket Immigration was for a retirement extension. Not knowing anything different, I picked up my 100baht change. After waiting on the benches for about 1 1/2 hours, watching others come and go, I made enquiries as to the progress of my application. A search located my passport still on the very bottom of a large pile of applications on the bosses desk. I may have been there until closing if I hadn't enquired. Lesson learnt, the 100 baht was not picked up again.

I was happy enough to pay 300 for a residency document. It wasn't needed very often (once only for me) and did require the officers to complete paper work. I would definitely pay for an express lane on arrival at the airport, as standing in queues are one of life's biggest hassles for someone with disabilities.

However, I would never pay for the 90 day report, it's a bit like expecting a parolee to pay his parole officer when he reports in.

I noted that when the special fees (graft) was taken away from IOs by people complaining to media and the ombudsman,  extra paper work began to appear. The residency forms, extra photocopies and of course the infamous personal information form as examples. These annoyances seem to be designed to steer people towards using agents, who apparently pay tips to Immigration. I preferred the old no hassle system where the IOs were fat and content as part of the corrupt system that the country is built on, and a trip to Immigration didn't raise trepidation as to what hoops have to be jumped through this time.

[Psimbo]

3 hours ago, Old Croc said:

Strange, most ageists claim older people are cheap charlies.

Instead of insults based on age, why not simply say that some people are happy to grease palms even when there is no need, and it could exacerbate the problem?

 

3 hours ago, Old Croc said:

 

My, my, we are over sensitive aren't we?  Still reeling about the inconvenience of a 90 day report? The comment was hardly insulting.  Some 'old timers' despite having been here a great number of years ARE still relatively young (I for instance am just over 50). Have another chip to balance the one already on your shoulder. 

 

As you have stated above that you HAVE paid 100 baht bribes in the past (gloss it over all you want with 'special fees'  but it WAS a bribe) you are part of the problem and I rest my case.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Psimbo

[KarenBravo]

3 hours ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

wonder what would happen if you recorded paying the fee on a hidden camera. would be interesting to see the results.

 

This is Thailand, where they shoot the messenger...............every time.

[LivinginKata]

4 hours ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

wonder what would happen if you recorded paying the fee on a hidden camera. would be interesting to see the results.

 

Very very bad idea. I believe that camera recording in a government office is illegal = a criminal charge. Then there is the defamation issue, as in you defame a government officer for taking a bribe. The way the defamation law works in Thailand has nothing to do with the validity of the claim, it's about saving face to the liabled person. Bad idea.

[oldlakey]

On 8/18/2016 at 10:28 AM, chiang mai said:

Free yes, if you want to wait ten days for it. If you want it tomorrow however, 600 baht.

Thats your luck mate

[williet98248]

Interesting.  I went through the same process today.  Wasn't asked to pay and I didn't offer.  I did it about a year ago as well and was asked for 300 baht.  Thought it was a normal fee.

[NamKangMan]

On 18/08/2016 at 7:33 PM, LivinginKata said:

 

Not really - just stand your ground and refuse politely. Just say there is no charge ... see how fast they fold.

 

 

"see how fast they fold" - or see how fast they put a red stamp in your passport. 

[NamKangMan]

3 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

 

"see how fast they fold" - or see how fast they put a red stamp in your passport, and why, because they can. 

 

[NamKangMan]

Just now, NamKangMan said:

Duplicate post removed. 

 

[NamKangMan]

Just now, NamKangMan said:

Duplicate post removed. 

 

[dageurreotype]

13 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

 

Actually, that's a quadrupled post  all basically saying the same thing - 'bend over'

[moe666]

love it this seems to come up at least once a year, if you pay you are the scum of the earth if you stand your ground and refuse you are so special. My question is by refuseing has that really helped to conquer graft

[JetsetBkk]

On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 11:33 AM, williamgeorgeallen said:

wonder what would happen if you recorded paying the fee on a hidden camera. would be interesting to see the results.

 

I was mentally kicking myself after I left, paying 300 baht for two address certificates. I had just bought a phone and have a "Voice recorder" app. Next time I will run it while I am there and record all the stuff said by the volunteers and the Immi. officials. Lord knows what I'd do with it, though. 

 

[PS. Thanks @Tech Doctor for reducing the size of text in quotes. ]

[PPS. @Tech Doctor can you also make the preview text not bold?]