Multiple Israeli air strikes hit Gaza Strip after Palestinian rocket attack

[Pakboong]

10 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

How many individuals are running about with home made rockets ? Not an item that one would normally have an abundance of lying around in the garden shed.

 

Firing a home made rocket is an terrorist act. As with most terrorist organisations that terrorist act is sanctioned by the people running the terrorist organisation.

 

Hamas can stop it by not making / acquiring these home made devices and by not sanctioning the attacks.

 

Very, very few terrorists acts are committed by individuals acting alone.

 

It can be done, and it can be done very easily.

 

I am not an attorney but I do understand quite a bit about clandestine activities and any lawyer would tell you to look first at Cui Bono( who benefits) and you have a piece of sh-t rocket that lands haplessly in the desert and 30 F16 responding airstrikes. Try to figure who derives anything from those events. You do understand do you not that the Israelis are among the most competent at infiltration of their enemies. If you know anything, you know the Israeli's are handling agents in Gaza. I don't know and don't really care who fired the rocket. I only know that it would be hard to miss a town 840 meters from the wall and a couple of Km wide and a couple of Km deep.

 

The Palestinians are not the sharpest people on the planet but their stupidity is seriously over used.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Pakboong

[SgtRock]

3 minutes ago, Pakboong said:

I am not an attorney but I do understand quite a bit about clandestine activities and any lawyer would tell you to look first at Cui Bono( who benefits) and you have a piece of sh-t rocket that lands haplessly in the desert and 30 F16 responding airstrikes. Try to figure who derives anything from those events. You do understand do you not that the Israeli are among the most competent at infiltration or their enemies. If you know anything, you know the Israeli's are handling agents in Gaza. I don't know and don't really care who fired the rocket. I only know that it would be hard to miss a town 840 meters from the wall and a couple of Km wide and a couple of Km deep.

 

The Palestinians are not the sharpest people on the planet but there stupidity is seriously over used.

 

You are getting confused between terrorist acts and clandestine activities. They are not the same.

 

I have already gave you an answer yesterday.

 

Not every terrorist act is designed to kill people. There is also a propaganda / PR war to be won. Right now the Palestinians are winning the propaganda / PR war.

 

It has nothing to do with covert Israeli operatives, dress it up whatever way you like, but the Israelis will not be going out of their way to have bad PR poured on Israel from the rest of the world.

 

I think you can put the conspiracy theory to bed right now.

[Pakboong]

8 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

You are getting confused between terrorist acts and clandestine activities. They are not the same.

 

I have already gave you an answer yesterday.

 

Not every terrorist act is designed to kill people. There is also a propaganda / PR war to be won. Right now the Palestinians are winning the propaganda / PR war.

 

It has nothing to do with covert Israeli operatives, dress it up whatever way you like, but the Israelis will not be going out of their way to have bad PR poured on Israel from the rest of the world.

 

I think you can put the conspiracy theory to bed right now.

Simply look at who benefits and it may come to you. If I am not buying what you are selling, does that make me an anti-semite? And I harbor no anger toward you personally, you are in the majority position here and lord knows I am in the minority. I have never bought into the rocket business and likely never will. It has never made sense to me the way it is described in the press and if it does make sense to you, I am happy for you.

[Pakboong]

If 11th century catapaults could hit a fortified castle 500 yards away, why is it a 21st century rocket can't hit a town that is 840 meters away and more than 2 km square in size? I know everyone will be tempted to say that the Palestinians are not as smart as those 11th century warriors. I can't buy that and never will. It points me at the line from as good "As it gets,"

"Lady you are going to have to peddle your crazy somewhere else, we are all stocked up here."

[SgtRock]

17 minutes ago, Pakboong said:

Simply look at who benefits and it may come to you. If I am not buying what you are selling, does that make me an anti-semite? And I harbor no anger toward you personally, you are in the majority position here and lord knows I am in the minority. I have never bought into the rocket business and likely never will. It has never made sense to me the way it is described in the press and if it does make sense to you, I am happy for you.

 

Read your first sentence.

 

No deaths = Bonus

 

Poor Palestinians fire home made rocket = Big bad Israel send a squadron of fighter jets in reply.

 

This is now a propaganda / PR war and the Israelis are losing big time.

 

 

[Pakboong]

18 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

Read your first sentence.

 

No deaths = Bonus

 

Poor Palestinians fire home made rocket = Big bad Israel send a squadron of fighter jets in reply.

 

This is now a propaganda / PR war and the Israelis are losing big time.

 

 

Sorry, I did forget to factor in that famous Israeli paranoia.  I gather from your comments that you  believe a powerful country such as Israel could not infiltrate Gaza with agents and informants? Even though they  are among the best in the world at doing just that. Even their IDF intelligence capabilty would be all that is needed it is considered a domestic job and not something the MOSSAD would get involved in.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Pakboong

[RuamRudy]

9 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Expected better trolling from you. Rather than quote my words out of context, please read again the post I was replying to - it tied all the woes of the Israeli occupation to this single attack. Some of the issues mentioned do not directly pertain to the situation in the Gaza Strip - there are no illegal settlements, no razing of houses, no building permits required and no permanent presence of Israeli troops within the Gaza Strip.

 

Nowhere did I say anything about Israel not being considered the occupying force, or that the blockade of the Gaza Strip is maintained by IDF troops.

 

 

I didn't quote you out of context at all - as I wrote, you have a tendency to write in absolutes, and with an issue so contentious and convoluted, clarity is essential.

[JingerBen]

1 hour ago, SgtRock said:

 

Read your first sentence.

 

No deaths = Bonus

 

Poor Palestinians fire home made rocket = Big bad Israel send a squadron of fighter jets in reply.

 

This is now a propaganda / PR war and the Israelis are losing big time.

 

 

Agreed.

The Israelis are losing the propaganda war big time.

Their narrative is a farrago of transparent lies from beginning to end.

Everything from the premise that Palestine and the Palestinians don't exist to bottle rockets being an existential threat.

 

[SgtRock]

4 minutes ago, JingerBen said:

Agreed.

The Israelis are losing the propaganda war big time.

Their narrative is a farrago of transparent lies from beginning to end.

Everything from the premise that Palestine and the Palestinians don't exist to bottle rockets being an existential threat.

 

Your 1st sentence started so well.

 

Then you blew it big time. The rest is just a personal rant, without any foundation.

[Ulysses G.]

6 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

Then you blew it big time. The rest is just a personal rant, without any foundation.

 

Typical of his loopy posts on the subject.

[JingerBen]

5 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

Your 1st sentence started so well.

 

Then you blew it big time. The rest is just a personal rant, without any foundation.

It's a concise statement of the obvious truth.

You don't seem to know the definition of the word rant.

[Ulysses G.]

2 minutes ago, JingerBen said:

 

You don't seem to know the definition of the word rant.

 

Tirade, diatribe. It seems to fit.

[JingerBen]

3 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Tirade, diatribe. It seems to fit.

Speak or shout at length in a wild or impassioned way.

That's what a rant is.

[SgtRock]

6 minutes ago, JingerBen said:

It's a concise statement of the obvious truth.

You don't seem to know the definition of the word rant.

 

It is a concise statement of your version of the truth. Which in reality is nothing more than an opinion. It remains an opinion until you back it up with outside sources that verify your opinion, which will turn your opinion into fact.

 

Au Contraire, it would appear that it is you that does not know the definition of rant. 

[Ulysses G.]

1 minute ago, JingerBen said:

Speak or shout at length in a wild or impassioned way.

That's what a rant is.

 

Not if one uses it as a noun. 

[Galactus]

13 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Don't you mean their own terrorist military base? It ain't going to happen until the Palestinians renounce terrorism and sign a peace treaty. They should have done it 70 years ago. They wouldn't have anything to complain about.

 

which one is terrorist base? palestinian non existent bases or Israeli bases in use?

it depends from people to people you know. For you Palestinains are terrorists and for some Israelis.

 

i dont fancy arabs but it is Israel stealing land and razing homes and changing the demographics there. So, Palestinians have every right to defend their soil and their future. if people are defending its soil, future and lives of their families, it is not called terrorism anymore.

[Credo]

So Hamas can root out 20 Israeli agents and execute them, but they can't find the lone wolves who are shooting rockets, which are probably reasonably expensive and a little hard to conceal?   

 

Without some action on the part of those in power, it would indicate that they are at a very, very minimum, complicit in the rockets being fired.

 

And by the way, because they land harmlessly in the desert doesn't mean much.   

 

 

[Galactus]

7 hours ago, t8769 said:

>Never ceases to amaze me how everyone suddenly becomes experts when Israel / Palestine comes up.

Yes, indeeedy.

There have been hundreds of wars, most in which far more people were killed. The Pali/Israel conflict is one of the smallest with one of the lowest death rates of any conflict in the past 50 years.

More people are killed in one day, in Syria, than in 10 years involving Israel.

The reason its important is because of the Joooooooooz.

Lets face it, if it was the Turks fighting Kurds, no one would give a monkey's.

 

Its a religious war, nothing to do with land or 'stealing land' or other such nonsense, as one poster keeps claiming.

 

People all over the Middle East are killing each other by the million, stealing land and doing much worse - does anyone care? No.

Here's the problem.

The Israelis want to stay alive, the people around want to wipe them out - literally.

 

 

yeah but this topic is about palestine - Israel conflict! you want us to go off topic and criticize other wrongdoing states here?

When there are threads about other fascist states oppressing other people or stealing land like Israel, i also go criticize based on facts of course, for one i do care.

But not many around as other states are not as protected and back up by Israel somehow! so if they do such actions like Israel even one tenth of their wrongdoings, UN or US go bomb them hard and fast ASAP, no???

 

of course it is not the biggest conflict or war on earth but it creates bigger divisions around the globe than many others happened or happening and it is one of the longest lasting too.

Although you dont want to see the simple facts, problem is directly related with Israeli land stealing, oppression, home razings, capital punishments and more. These are the main problem and it goes for long time and Israel never stops stealing more land, giving no hope for people living in an open penitentiary.

Not like Israelis are scared and trying to protect themselves and actually they do exactly opposite by an aggressive manner and put the lives of israeli citizens in danger by stealing more land and by inserting more illegal cheap settlers on stolen land therefore agitating local Palestinians for more rockets and retaliation.

this conflict my friend is a bloody vicious circle created by Israel and its backers.

 

[SgtRock]

12 minutes ago, Galactus said:

 

i dont fancy arabs but it is Israel stealing land and razing homes and changing the demographics there. So, Palestinians have every right to defend their soil and their future. if people are defending its soil, future and lives of their families, it is not called terrorism anymore.

 

I think that this has been covered fairly well elsewhere in the thread.

 

None of this is applicable to the West Bank or the OP

 

However

 

Firing rockets at innocents is not defending your soil, your future or the lives of your family, regardless of who is doing the firing. It is TERRORISM, period. Notwithstanding that it is actually having the polar opposite effect as it is inviting retaliation.

[Ulysses G.]

24 minutes ago, Galactus said:

 

which one is terrorist base?

 

There isn't one. The Palestinians do not have a country. However, Gaza is pretty close. Hamas has been shooting rockets at civilians in Israel for years and they govern it.

[Galactus]

10 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

I think that this has been covered fairly well elsewhere in the thread.

 

None of this is applicable to the West Bank or the OP

 

However

 

Firing rockets at innocents is not defending your soil, your future or the lives of your family, regardless of who is doing the firing. It is TERRORISM, period. Notwithstanding that it is actually having the polar opposite effect as it is inviting retaliation.

 

what i wrote is directly related with OP.

and a rocket sent by oppressed people with no hope is terrorism and stealing lands of innocents, oppressing and killing them is not terrorism? c'mon.

 

simple cliche question i always ask here but never get a proper answer:

if some criminals come to your land and house (land that your ancestors were living for many generations), grab and occupy it by force and threats, sit on it and tell you and your family to leave, do you just say 'OK, no problem' and leave your land for poverty with no future to you and your family?

or do you resist them and try to protect yourself and your family by all means necessary?

i want a simple answer.

this simple answer is directly related why rockets still flies to Israeli side.

[Morch]

6 hours ago, monkey4u said:

Build a wall around the whole of the middle east then let the whole of the middle east wipe itself out

 

But, following Trump, make "them" pay for it!

[Ulysses G.]

11 minutes ago, Galactus said:

 

simple cliche question i always ask here but never get a proper answer:

if some criminals come to your land and house (land that your ancestors were living for many generations), 

 

I take it that the Palestinians are the criminals in your little story. The Jews have been there for 3000 years and the Arabs started the violence. 

[Galactus]

4 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

I take it that the Palestinians are the criminals in your little story. The Jews have been there for 3000 years and the Arabs started the violence. 

 

as expected, still no answer:)

 

before Jews there were Egyptians and Hittites and many other civilizations there! so?

[Grouse]

Typical unbalanced OTT response from Israel. What's the matter? Not been in the news enough recently?

 

A more mature response would have been to just ignore the rockets. 

[SgtRock]

4 minutes ago, Galactus said:

simple cliche question i always ask here but never get a proper answer:

if some criminals come to your land and house (land that your ancestors were living for many generations), grab and occupy it by force and threats, sit on it and tell you and your family to leave, do you just say 'OK, no problem' and leave your land for poverty with no future to you and your family?

or do you resist them and try to protect yourself and your family by all means necessary?

i want a simple answer.

this simple answer is directly related why rockets still flies to Israeli side.

 

You have had it answered many times. If you do not wish to accept the answer that is your prerogative, but do not ever claim that the question has not been answered.

 

Quote

if some criminals come to your land and house (land that your ancestors were living for many generations), grab and occupy it by force and threats, sit on it and tell you and your family to leave, do you just say 'OK, no problem' and leave your land for poverty with no future to you and your family?

 

Once again here is the answer. The simple answer that you demand.

 

As has been previously and painstaking pointed out to you on numerous occasions. None of your above quote happens in the Gaza Strip which is directly referring to the OP and the launch site for the rockets in the OP.

 

Now you tell me how firing rockets at civilians over a border is defending your land, your house and your family ?

 

My definition of defence is when someone is on my land I will use every action necessary to get rid of, or kill them. Nowhere in my definition of defence is lobbing rockets over a border that may kill innocent people included.

 

I will go out on a limb here and guess that you cannot see too clearly. So this post will go straight over your head

 

 

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

I take it that the Palestinians are the criminals in your little story. The Jews have been there for 3000 years and the Arabs started the violence. 

 

I think he is referring to the clear evidence of generational presence, and not the contents of some old fairy tale that is believed by only 0.2% of the world.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, Pakboong said:

I see the situation a bit differently than most perhaps because of my professional background or whatever.

I know a couple of things to be true that kind of get glossed over that are completely relevant.

First of all, Israel holds Hamas responsible for anything that happens in Gaza. That would be a lovely and simple happening if it wasn't for the fact that Israel handles hundreds of agents of various degrees who operate within Gaza. These agents handle hundreds of informants who also operate within Gaza on a daily basis. It is pretty obvious to the dumbest among us that Hamas can not control Israeli agents. Over 20 Israeli agents were executed in the 2014 war but there are too many left to count. It is one of the best paying jobs in Gaza.

 

With that having been said and I guaranty that to be absolutely true, how can Hamas stop an individual who decides to fire a home made rocket into the desert on the other side of the border at Sderot which is only 840 meters from the wall? Can't be done. So obviously, there is nothing to gain from this for the hapless Palestinians trapped in Gaza. Cui Bono takes us to what should be obvious but as I read through these posts, I get the impression that we collectively do not understand how these things work.

 

It may be the greatest catch 22 of all time.

 

Ah, that claimed "professional background" again, right on cue. And that coming after previously posting to the effect that you've never been in the area. There is nothing in your posts to suggest that you have a clear idea regarding the machinations of Israeli intelligence in the Gaza Strip. That you "guaranty that to be absolutely true" means very little.

 

The Palestinians which were executed (rather brutally) were allegedly Israeli agents. If you actually had any relevant "professional background" you would probably be less hasty to state it as fact, and perhaps think about a couple of other viable scenarios.

 

As your whole premise is based on the above, without any shred of support, it doesn't sound like much.

 

Three additional counter-nonsense points:

-  Rockets are not launched from a distance of 840 meters (technically a problem, btw), but from locations within the Gaza Strip.

- Hamas is pretty good at controlling rocket launches given the right motivation.

- There is no precedent (as far as I'm aware) for long term ongoing HUMINT operations on the scale you  claim, being carried out in a similar scenario without higher rates of detection.

 

More tin foil please.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Morch

[Ulysses G.]

Just now, Galactus said:

 

 ...still no answer

 

I have answered you numerous times.You just don't like the answer.

[Ulysses G.]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

A more mature response would have been to just ignore the rockets. 

 

That would be a STUPID response. No country just ignores a terrorist attack.