US works to keep Turkey in its fold as NATO ally looks east

[webfact]

US works to keep Turkey in its fold as NATO ally looks east

By JOSH LEDERMAN

 

WASHINGTON (AP) — With suspicions on both sides mounting, the United States is struggling to preserve its wobbly partnership with Turkey as it entertains a closer relationship with Russia and fumes over a U.S.-based cleric it blames for orchestrating last month's failed coup attempt.

 

Vice President Joe Biden faces a difficult mission when he travels to Ankara on Wednesday to try to smooth over recent strains: He comes bearing no assurances that the U.S. will agree to Turkey's demand that it extradite that cleric — Fethullah Gulen, who lives in Pennsylvania. Instead, he'll try to convey that the U.S. still needs and values Turkey as a key NATO ally, even amid worrying signs that the U.S. and Turkish approaches to the region's conflicts may be diverging — especially on Syria.

 

Tensions between the two countries were already bubbling under the surface before the attempted overthrow on July 15, but have since burst into the open. U.S. leaders were incensed when Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan alleged the U.S. either supported or was involved in the coup attempt. As the U.S. issued denials, Turkish officials complained loudly that Washington was slow to show support for Turkey's government at its time of greatest need, even though the U.S. expressed support for Erdogan as the coup attempt was underway.

 

At the same time, the U.S. has been rattled by Turkey's recent diplomatic flirtations with traditional U.S. foes Russia and Iran, concerned they may indicate that a frustrated Turkey is rethinking its allegiance with the West in promoting regional stability. This month Erdogan traveled to Moscow to try to boost ties and possibly even collaboration on ending Syria's civil war, something Moscow has sought unsuccessfully with Washington. And following the Turkish foreign minister's surprise trip to Iran last week, Turkish media reported that Erdogan planned to visit Tehran on Wednesday — the same day he's also slated to meet with Biden.

 

"Clearly President Erdogan is sending a message by getting closer to Russia and Iran that he's unhappy with the attitude of the West," said Bulent Aliriza, a Turkey analyst at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies. "Turkey's still going to remain a NATO member and aspire for EU membership, but the atmosphere is worse than it was on July 14," the day before the coup attempt.

 

A breakdown of ties to Turkey would be problematic for the U.S., which is counting on Turkey to pursue the same approach to fighting the Islamic State group and addressing extremism across the Middle East. Straddling Europe and Asia, Turkey shares borders with Iraq, Iran and Syria, where the porous border has allowed Islamic State fighters in to Turkey, and would-be recruits into Syria.

 

But the U.S. and Turkey are unlikely to resolve their dispute over Gulen, who has lived in the U.S. for years in self-imposed exile. Gulen has denied any involvement in the coup attempt, in which more than 270 died, but Turkey's government has insisted the U.S. return him to Turkey immediately.

 

The Obama administration wants more proof before considering extradition. Although Turkey has submitted extradition requests for Gulen, those requests have been based on previous alleged crimes by Gulen and not evidence of involvement in the coup attempt, senior Obama administration officials said.

 

The U.S. is sending a Justice Department team to Turkey to help sort out the technical requirements of the request, said the officials, who briefed reporters ahead of Biden's trip on condition of anonymity. They added that Biden planned to tell Turkey's leaders that their public allegations of U.S. complicity won't help their cause.

 

"People have an expectation that Gulen should be returned to Turkey immediately," said Gulnur Aybet, who teaches international relations at Turkey's Bahcesehir University. "If the extradition request is refused or delayed I'm afraid that's going to have serious repercussions."

 

The U.S. once looked optimistically at Erdogan as a Muslim leader interested in working with the U.S. and pursuing democratic governance. That optimism has been dampened as Erdogan has cracked down on press and other freedoms and his government has put a premium on opposing outlawed Kurdish rebels — sometimes at the expense, in the Obama administration's view — of focusing on IS.

 

Washington's concerns about human rights and democracy in Turkey intensified after the failed coup, which led the government to detain or fire tens of thousands of police, soldiers, teachers and journalists. Yet the U.S. has been careful not to hammer Turkey over those concerns in public out of concern it would undercut the U.S. message of support for Turkey's government.

 

The fragile situation in Turkey was compounded over the weekend when a suicide bomber killed at least 54 people at a Kurdish wedding celebration in Gaziantep, near the Syria border. It was the deadliest attack this year in Turkey, joining other deadly attacks by IS or by the Kurdistan Workers' Party, known as the PKK.

 

In another worrying sign for the U.S., Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim appeared to warm to the possibility of Syrian President Bashar Assad maintaining a role in a transitional government. Turkey and the U.S. have both called for Assad's ouster for years, insisting he can't be part of Syria's future government.

___

Suzan Fraser in Ankara, Turkey, video journalist Bram Janssen in Istanbul, and Dan Huff in Washington contributed to this report.

 

-- © Associated Press 2016-08-23

[Kerryd]

Yeah, like I said elsewhere, the real coup happened after the "staged" coup and the West is turning a blind eye to the human rights abuses that Erdogan has been doing using that staged coup as an excuse. Erdogan would have never gotten away with that mass purge of people (that he'd supposedly been planning on doing on or around 1 August) if it wasn't for the "coup". 

Frik, not long ago (in 2013) he had a major uprising when plans were announced to turn a park into an "urban development" that ended up with 11 dead, 8,000+ injured and nearly 3.5 million people joining protests around the country, in part because of the park project and also because people were upset with Erdogan's "authoritarianism".

 

If he'd gone ahead with his plans to detain 10s of thousands of members of the military and government, as well as dismissing thousands of judges, deans and teachers, and 10s of thousands of bureaucrats and other "influential" people with no evidence of any wrong doing (over 50,000 dismissed since the "coup" for no reason other than being suspected of supporting someone that used to be a supporter of Erdogan), there would have been even larger protests all over the country, which could have lead to an actual, real coup happening. 

How convenient that a very small, very poorly planned and executed coup attempt removed all those problems in the blink of an eye.

 

Now that he has almost cemented his total authority over the country, it seems he feels he can take the next steps towards his ultimate goal. Making friends with (anti-American) Iran and Russia is probably designed to counter whatever moves the West might make if Erdogan starts going even more "fundamental". (Or it's a "blackmail" ploy to try and prevent too much criticism for how he has handled things since the "coup" - a "back off on the criticism or I'll start making friends with your enemies" kind of ploy.)

(A bit odd though, considering the tensions that existed just recently between Russian and Turkey, which I'm sure Putin has not forgotten about. Also considering that Erdogan hates Assad with a passion and wants him gone but Russia supports him and wants him to remain. Also considering that it was Russia that pointed out the ISIS oil convoys that were bringing huge amounts of bootleg oil into Turkey unchecked and unmolested and it was Russia that first started bombing those convoys. That was also around the time that the rumours" were going around that is was Erdogan's son that was buying that oil at a discount. That sent Erdogan into a tizzy of threats and arresting journalists as well if I recall. It's almost a strange coincidence that the Wests relations with Turkey seemed to take a downward trend right around the same time that they started bombing those oil convoys as well.)

 

Then there is Iran. Erdogan is a fundamentalist Sunni and Iran of course is hard line Shia. I guess politics does make strange bedfellows (as the old saying goes). So Russia supports Iran and Syria. Turkey wants to crush the Kurds and overthrow Assad (and possibly grab some land in the process that the ethnic "Turkmen" occupy - much the same way Putin took the Crimea). Iran wants to flex it's Shia might and is supporting Iraq and the fight against ISIS and (probably) trying to counter the ever increasing sanctions it faces for continuing to try and develop nuclear weapons but they are also supporters of Assad (and Hezbollah).

(Really makes me wonder what the world would do if Iran did get nukes and then dropped one on downtown Tel Aviv.) 

 

It's no wonder that area is such a nightmare - no one knows who is supporting who against who and your allies against "them" are also supporting others that are against you. 

 

 

[Galactus]

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

Yeah, like I said elsewhere, the real coup happened after the "staged" coup and the West is turning a blind eye to the human rights abuses that Erdogan has been doing using that staged coup as an excuse. Erdogan would have never gotten away with that mass purge of people (that he'd supposedly been planning on doing on or around 1 August) if it wasn't for the "coup". 

Frik, not long ago (in 2013) he had a major uprising when plans were announced to turn a park into an "urban development" that ended up with 11 dead, 8,000+ injured and nearly 3.5 million people joining protests around the country, in part because of the park project and also because people were upset with Erdogan's "authoritarianism".

 

If he'd gone ahead with his plans to detain 10s of thousands of members of the military and government, as well as dismissing thousands of judges, deans and teachers, and 10s of thousands of bureaucrats and other "influential" people with no evidence of any wrong doing (over 50,000 dismissed since the "coup" for no reason other than being suspected of supporting someone that used to be a supporter of Erdogan), there would have been even larger protests all over the country, which could have lead to an actual, real coup happening. 

How convenient that a very small, very poorly planned and executed coup attempt removed all those problems in the blink of an eye.

 

Now that he has almost cemented his total authority over the country, it seems he feels he can take the next steps towards his ultimate goal. Making friends with (anti-American) Iran and Russia is probably designed to counter whatever moves the West might make if Erdogan starts going even more "fundamental". (Or it's a "blackmail" ploy to try and prevent too much criticism for how he has handled things since the "coup" - a "back off on the criticism or I'll start making friends with your enemies" kind of ploy.)

(A bit odd though, considering the tensions that existed just recently between Russian and Turkey, which I'm sure Putin has not forgotten about. Also considering that Erdogan hates Assad with a passion and wants him gone but Russia supports him and wants him to remain. Also considering that it was Russia that pointed out the ISIS oil convoys that were bringing huge amounts of bootleg oil into Turkey unchecked and unmolested and it was Russia that first started bombing those convoys. That was also around the time that the rumours" were going around that is was Erdogan's son that was buying that oil at a discount. That sent Erdogan into a tizzy of threats and arresting journalists as well if I recall. It's almost a strange coincidence that the Wests relations with Turkey seemed to take a downward trend right around the same time that they started bombing those oil convoys as well.)

 

Then there is Iran. Erdogan is a fundamentalist Sunni and Iran of course is hard line Shia. I guess politics does make strange bedfellows (as the old saying goes). So Russia supports Iran and Syria. Turkey wants to crush the Kurds and overthrow Assad (and possibly grab some land in the process that the ethnic "Turkmen" occupy - much the same way Putin took the Crimea). Iran wants to flex it's Shia might and is supporting Iraq and the fight against ISIS and (probably) trying to counter the ever increasing sanctions it faces for continuing to try and develop nuclear weapons but they are also supporters of Assad (and Hezbollah).

(Really makes me wonder what the world would do if Iran did get nukes and then dropped one on downtown Tel Aviv.) 

 

It's no wonder that area is such a nightmare - no one knows who is supporting who against who and your allies against "them" are also supporting others that are against you. 

 

 

 

Erdogan is a wanna be dictator yes. he has no regard to human rights if possible but again, do not exaggerate his powers, he has lost some support and respect due to this coup as even his closest aides were in coup movement and public started to think like this guy as president was fooled by coup makers.

 

very poorly executed coup? nearly 300 people were dead! of course maybe it does mean anything for you but it means something for others i am sure. it looks like you are sad that this coup was not successful:)

it is prosecutors arresting and purging people, not Erdogan and you say no evidence on arresting people. how do you know there is no evidence? c'mon, speak with facts or it counts as nonsense plus two third of salaries of those arrested civil servants are paid monthly during their trials.

 

and they arrest some bigot religious people working for that Gulen movement with an aim of bring Sharia law and islamic bigotry to Turkey and also US according them if they can make it! You have no idea about that Gulen movement. They look moderate but their aim is bringing Sharia law and islamic movement slowly and slowly to the every country they are working on now. they are not less dangerous than ISIS.

 

US clearly supported and still supporting this Gulen movement (they are harboring that Gulen bigot) and sorry but US waited to call for support until nearly the morning once they see Gulen coup try is not successful.

as a key ally of Turkey and as a so called protector of democracy globally! , US needed to show support from the first moment of that bloody attempt. Did they? no. are they extraditing a bloody bigot Gulen? no. so why complain like Turks are going close to Russia etc?

of course it is their right to look for other options when their close strategic ally US is harboring the head of coup makers and an alleged assistance for coup makers and harming the national security of turks. 

Europe did the same too, all those talk about democracy etc and they did not show proper support to turks during a coup try which was against democracy.

of course Russia and Iran are poor options but options.

 

turks and Iranians are living together for a millennium (where there were no US or NATO those times of course naturally) and they are sharing the same border from 1639 border treaty, less then 150 years after Christopher Colombus discovered America. so sure they have common things and why this bothers you?

 

sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about apart from saying that Erdogan is an authoritarian dictator.

 

[DaddyWarbucks]

3 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Yeah, like I said elsewhere, the real coup happened after the "staged" coup and the West is turning a blind eye to the human rights abuses that Erdogan has been doing using that staged coup as an excuse. Erdogan would have never gotten away with that mass purge of people (that he'd supposedly been planning on doing on or around 1 August) if it wasn't for the "coup". 

Frik, not long ago (in 2013) he had a major uprising when plans were announced to turn a park into an "urban development" that ended up with 11 dead, 8,000+ injured and nearly 3.5 million people joining protests around the country, in part because of the park project and also because people were upset with Erdogan's "authoritarianism".

 

If he'd gone ahead with his plans to detain 10s of thousands of members of the military and government, as well as dismissing thousands of judges, deans and teachers, and 10s of thousands of bureaucrats and other "influential" people with no evidence of any wrong doing (over 50,000 dismissed since the "coup" for no reason other than being suspected of supporting someone that used to be a supporter of Erdogan), there would have been even larger protests all over the country, which could have lead to an actual, real coup happening. 

How convenient that a very small, very poorly planned and executed coup attempt removed all those problems in the blink of an eye.

 

Now that he has almost cemented his total authority over the country, it seems he feels he can take the next steps towards his ultimate goal. Making friends with (anti-American) Iran and Russia is probably designed to counter whatever moves the West might make if Erdogan starts going even more "fundamental". (Or it's a "blackmail" ploy to try and prevent too much criticism for how he has handled things since the "coup" - a "back off on the criticism or I'll start making friends with your enemies" kind of ploy.)

(A bit odd though, considering the tensions that existed just recently between Russian and Turkey, which I'm sure Putin has not forgotten about. Also considering that Erdogan hates Assad with a passion and wants him gone but Russia supports him and wants him to remain. Also considering that it was Russia that pointed out the ISIS oil convoys that were bringing huge amounts of bootleg oil into Turkey unchecked and unmolested and it was Russia that first started bombing those convoys. That was also around the time that the rumours" were going around that is was Erdogan's son that was buying that oil at a discount. That sent Erdogan into a tizzy of threats and arresting journalists as well if I recall. It's almost a strange coincidence that the Wests relations with Turkey seemed to take a downward trend right around the same time that they started bombing those oil convoys as well.)

 

Then there is Iran. Erdogan is a fundamentalist Sunni and Iran of course is hard line Shia. I guess politics does make strange bedfellows (as the old saying goes). So Russia supports Iran and Syria. Turkey wants to crush the Kurds and overthrow Assad (and possibly grab some land in the process that the ethnic "Turkmen" occupy - much the same way Putin took the Crimea). Iran wants to flex it's Shia might and is supporting Iraq and the fight against ISIS and (probably) trying to counter the ever increasing sanctions it faces for continuing to try and develop nuclear weapons but they are also supporters of Assad (and Hezbollah).

(Really makes me wonder what the world would do if Iran did get nukes and then dropped one on downtown Tel Aviv.) 

 

It's no wonder that area is such a nightmare - no one knows who is supporting who against who and your allies against "them" are also supporting others that are against you. 

 

 

Yeah, like I said elsewhere...

Play it again, Sam.

The view from Foggy Bottom.

Some of the points may be credible, but overall it's just more hogwash from the USA.

[ThaiWest]

Chuck the SOBs!

[Acharn]

I would more interpret this as the U.S. trying desperately, after their coup failed, to keep Turkey in line with the other NATO members trying to provoke a war with Russia, as directed by the neoconservative cabal in Washington. If they don't have Turkey's cooperation they have logistical problems. Ukraine's facilities aren't adequate, which is why Russia preempted NATO occupation of Crimea.

[DeaconJohn]

6 minutes ago, Acharn said:

I would more interpret this as the U.S. trying desperately, after their coup failed, to keep Turkey in line with the other NATO members trying to provoke a war with Russia, as directed by the neoconservative cabal in Washington. If they don't have Turkey's cooperation they have logistical problems. Ukraine's facilities aren't adequate, which is why Russia preempted NATO occupation of Crimea.

Spot on.

All the rest is smoke and mirrors.

[ThaiWest]

Okay, the Russians and the US are ... Not on the same path. As of now. It is at this point important to allow that a "new POTUS" could alter that. The current focus and concern  should be on wha the current "POTIS"'s actions are... Those cans could have a drastic implication on the next "POTIIS"!

[ThaiWest]

At this point, the voters in the US need to focus on their own counties' problems. And remove  focus from other 'world' nations... No longer should the USA be trying to protect the “peoples of the world” it is time for those to grab their balls and hold their own! 

 

 

 

[Scott]

I would have to agree with Kerryd on his overall assessment.   I worked and lived in Turkey for a time and had the odious opportunity of seeing the Turkish government in action.   They are very much like a petulant child.   They had grown accustomed to large handouts from the west, both financial and in kind. 

 

They are used to getting their way, one way or the other.   They are strategically located, and there is no doubt that they have some dubious neighbors and have to keep the peace, such as it is, in the neighborhood.  

[Dustdevil]

Turkey is spiraling down to third-world Islamic theocracy status. First order of business: blame the U.S. for your own actions and problems. The country certainly doesn't belong in NATO--totally untrustworthy. Let them look east--who cares? Erdogan and Putin deserve each other.

[Grouse]

Turkey will NEVER get into the EU.

 

Why does the USA think they make a good partner?

 

As I've said before, do a deal with the Kurds. Make them the new top dogs

 

Dump SA while you're at it

[Acharn]

On 8/23/2016 at 8:27 PM, Grouse said:

Turkey will NEVER get into the EU.

 

Why does the USA think they make a good partner?

 

As I've said before, do a deal with the Kurds. Make them the new top dogs

 

Dump SA while you're at it

What makes you think the USA thinks they would be a "good partner" in the EU, whatever that even means? First, Erdogan has already shown for a few years that he's no longer enthusiastic about joining. Second, as you point out, their application is never going to be accepted. It's terribly frustrating for the career types in the State Department, because they're trying to implement a plan to force all the NATO countries, including Turkey, to buy all their weapons from the US. They're also on the verge of starting a shooting war with Russia to get their oil, so weakening support from Turkey, which is absolutely essential for logistic purposes, is a major setback. The Kurds are not in a position to replace the Turks as top dogs because they don't control the Dardanelles Straits.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Acharn

[ilostmypassword]

On 8/23/2016 at 9:41 AM, Kerryd said:

Iran wants to flex it's Shia might and is supporting Iraq and the fight against ISIS and (probably) trying to counter the ever increasing sanctions it faces for continuing to try and develop nuclear weapons but they are also supporters of Assad (and Hezbollah).

(Really makes me wonder what the world would do if Iran did get nukes and then dropped one on downtown Tel Aviv.) 

 

 

 

What "ever increasing sanctions" are you talkling about?  Haven't you even an inkling about the agreement that eased sanctions on Iran?