Why is there better Thai food in San Francisco than in Pattaya?

[Jingthing]

Check out the food at one Michelin star Kin Khao in San Francisco.

 

https://www.yelp.com/biz/kin-khao-san-francisco-2

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/28/magazine/thai-style-thai.html?_r=0

 

 

Honestly. Seriously. Do you know even one Thai restaurant in Pattaya that does Thai food that looks as amazing?

Obviously, you can't taste the pictures, so that's why I say looks.

 

What's up with that?

We're in Thailand, right?

No demand? Thai restaurant chefs lazy and don't bother to be creative?
 

Yes the prices would need to be high by local standards but not as high as in SF because of cheaper business running costs.

 

 

 

 

[anotheruser]

I thought people were always disappointed by Thai food in the west not being authentic? Do they use the cheapest cuts of pure grizzle, slathered in MSG, huge amounts of sugar, and week old cooking oil that's gone dark brown? If the answer is no they aren't serving authentic Thai cuisine and you will be disappointed.

 

Your average Thai place isn't going to stack up well against a Michelin rated restaurant in one of the most cosmopolitan eating cities in the world.

 

"She kept thinking about returning to Thai food, “the kind of food I grew up eating: everything made from scratch, using great ingredients, and using spices to enhance ingredients rather than masking their inferior quality."

 

This is my opposite experience of Thai food where they use everything they can to disguise the quality.

 

Edited August 24, 2016 by anotheruser

[KittenKong]

Yes, the food in that Michelin place does look good but I wonder if it tastes any better for that? Probably not. I eat out a lot here and I find that generally Thais aren't very good at food presentation even if they are good at cooking it. They could learn of course, but it doesnt seem to be an aspect that they are very interested in.

 

And I disagree that prices of well-presented food would need to be significantly higher here. Labour is quite cheap, as is demonstrated by the 5-star hotels who often achieve good food presentation at low prices. It's all down to management and training, and having staff with a work ethic, and that's where Thailand falls down a lot.

[lou62]

After visiting a couple of Thai restaurants in London my Thai missus said she didn't want to go to another.

 

Bland food, done for locals and yes, very decorative and expensive. 

[JHolmesJr]

99% of thai food made overseas is lacking in authentic taste mainly due to the taste of the ingredients….chicken in thailand tastes much better than in australia or the US/UK…the chicken there is rubbery and artificially pumped up…all mass and bland taste…even the vegetables like baby corn taste different.

 

The only thai restaurant i have enjoyed overseas is Long Grain in Sydney, which is helmed by a south african chef.

[Jingthing]

I see my point wasn't understood too well, so I'll try again.

 

In  no way was I suggesting that all or most Thai food in the west, even in the great food cities, is as good or better than typical Thai food you can get in Pattaya at better Thai food restaurants here.

 

In Pattaya, yes just based on the pictures I'm pretty sure there isn't even one Thai restaurant that is selling Thai food even near the level of that place in SF, and yes there are multiple SF Thai restaurants at a similar high level, without Michelin stars. 

 

If there was, I'd be happy to open my wallet for it. I really don't think it exists here in Pattaya. That's a bit strange ... while this isn't Bangkok, it is a major restaurant market in Thailand. 

 

Bangkok is a different story. The high culinary level of Thai food is available there. But I really think not in Pattaya. 

 

Edited August 24, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

56 minutes ago, lou62 said:

After visiting a couple of Thai restaurants in London my Thai missus said she didn't want to go to another.

 

Bland food, done for locals and yes, very decorative and expensive. 

 Your comment has zilch to do with the restaurant I referred to in San Francisco. 

[Jiu-Jitsu]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 Your comment has zilch to do with the restaurant I referred to in San Francisco. 

 

 

No need for such a stupidly rude comment. Since no one here has actually tasted the food from the restaurant in SF, what kind of subjective comment would you expect?

[Pdaz]

It's not 'better'. It's just Thai style food made for Western Taste. The poncy Michelin judges wouldn't know what real Thai food is meant to taste like if it bit them on the a55.

 

It's no different to saying a Michilin starred resto's interpretation of "Roast Beef" is better than my home cooked version.. Their's maybe fancier and prettier to look at but it's not "better"

 

Horses for courses... 

[Jingthing]

Here's an example of the level I'm talking about in Bangkok that I don't think exists in Pattaya. I have eaten there:

 

http://www.supannigaeatingroom.com/menu.html

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Jiu-Jitsu said:

 

 

No need for such a stupidly rude comment. Since no one here has actually tasted the food from the restaurant in SF, what kind of subjective comment would you expect?

I would expect people to grasp the concept of the thread. I think I've clarified it more by now.

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, Pdaz said:

It's not 'better'. It's just Thai style food made for Western Taste. The poncy Michelin judges wouldn't know what real Thai food is meant to taste like if it bit them on the a55.

 

It's no different to saying a Michilin starred resto's interpretation of "Roast Beef" is better than my home cooked version.. Their's maybe fancier and prettier to look at but it's not "better"

 

Horses for courses... 

You're wrong. The SF restaurant in question is not for western tastes. It's for sophisticated San Francisco foodies, a city with a huge percentage of Asians and non-Asians that know about Thai food. They advertise it's not for Thai food newbies. Why can't people see the point? Where in PATTAYA is there a THAI food place of that creativity and sophistication? Like I said, there are a number at that level in BANGKOK, but I think here ... ZILCH. 

 

Please focus on the PATTAYA issue. OK?

 

Where in Pattaya Thai food at the level of the more interesting sophisticated (not necessarily super expensive) Thai food places in Bangkok?

 

I still think the Thai chefs are totally lazy here. Showing very little creativity and passion. It's not surprising that there are some better Thai food places abroad than in Pattaya.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Go to this place https://www.facebook.com/aeandek/  and ask them to put together whatever dish up for you....or just eat what they have and try to not be a PITA. Good food at excellent prices. Try it. It might shut you up for at least a while.

 

Pattaya is not a high end destination.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Jiu-Jitsu said:

Go to this place https://www.facebook.com/aeandek/  and ask them to put together whatever dish up for you....or just eat what they have and try to not be a PITA. Good food at excellent prices. Try it. It might shut you up for at least a while.

 

Pattaya is not a high end destination.

Actually there are tons of places, like fancy hotels, where you can spend very high end here.

That's not the point.

The point is the culinary level of the food.

The Michelin place mentioned is NOT very expensive by San Franscisco standards, even with their 25 dollar rabbit green curry. 

 

I'm not dissing May's Urban Thai but that's a place that some people might THINK is the kind of Thai food place I'm talking about. Sadly not.

 

It's not at the level of places like Suppaniga in Bangkok.

 

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g293919-d7235043-Reviews-MAYs_Urban_Thai_Dine_Pattaya-Pattaya_Chonburi_Province.html

Edited August 24, 2016 by Jingthing

[Pdaz]

Pattaya has "higher end" Thai restaurants. They are packed at the weekend with Bangkok Thais. But the market here in Pattaya won't support the price point and the guests see what you call "sophistication" as pointless and overpriced. I've tried quite a few of them and to be honest I prefer the food at my local "Aharn Dahm Sang"   I don't need a mountain of garnish, tiny portions and overbearing service to enjoy a meal. "Creativity and Sophistication"  sounds very pretentious to me.

I'm there to eat...

I'm willing to pay for location, Views and good atmosphere but I'm mostly disappointed with the overly embellished and "played with" versions of what should be a simple, tasty cuisine. 

 

If you want that style of food head to Bangkok.. Many Thai restos with International awards and wonderful reviews.  

[Jingthing]

You don't get what I'm talking about. It's not so much about high price point and definitely  NOT about a high end environment. 

[Pdaz]

"Sophistication" normally implies high price point. Unless you are saying, "The food cart is very sophisticated as he uses gas not charcoal" 

 

I understand your point regarding Thai chefs/cooks here in Pattaya. They are very cautious and don't seem to want to develop dishes to a higher level. I noticed this when I originally move here from Singapore. In Singas if you asked a local about a good place to enjoy say "Bak Kut TeH" they would reel off a list of recommendations. In Pattaya most of my local friends may have a place they use but it will be based on location and ease of use more often than outstanding food.

 

In Bangkok this is different. Food outlets are all looking to differentiate themselves from others with a similar product. They have also started to understand the idea of brand awareness and how to promote their product as special.

 

This is happening slowly in Pattaya but at a more grass roots level. Think small noodle shop rather than higher end multi cover resto.

 

There are many Thai language foodie sites on the web and many revues on Thai social media. I've visited some with BKK friends while they were in Pattaya. But not massively impressed. They have felt the same and say "better in BKK"

 

It's is slowly getting better. But don't expect too much. I can remember when there was only one Japanese resto in Pattaya and Thais had to be dragged in there kicking and screaming..

[Jiu-Jitsu]

So let's forget about the sophistication. Only talky, talky, talky, talk....

 

Here is Ae & Ek's old menu: 

 

They will likely also have some more interesting specials on a separate blackboard in the restaurant. Was excellent value for money and nicely presented in the old restaurant. Let's see if the can keep up the standard in the new. Give them a try.

[JHolmesJr]

52 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Here's an example of the level I'm talking about in Bangkok that I don't think exists in Pattaya. I have eaten there:

 

http://www.supannigaeatingroom.com/menu.html

 

Supanigga....lol...love to see them open a branch in harlem. 

[mania]

Looking at the page of pics I have to say no thanks ( based on looks as the OP suggested)

https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/kin-khao-san-francisco-2

Food in Chiang Mai looks way better to my eyes

[gk10002000]

Basic difference is quality of food and freshness.  Sure some of the local Thai food is really good, but so much is second rate and sold cheap.

[Pdaz]

16 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

Supanigga....lol...love to see them open a branch in harlem. 

Sorry JH Jnr.. I quoted your post not JT's. But yes great name for a Harlem or Downtown LA resto 

 

 

JT.

Very nicely presented. But they are just tidied up versions of dishes I can order at my local "Aharn Dahm Sang" Some like the bitter gourd stuffed with pork and glass noodles I can buy at the market for 30 Baht. Yes I'm not doubting that in the restaurant they are using much higher quality ingredients and they are being prepared in more hygienic conditions etc. But I have found many simple favorites ruined by attempts a improvement too. TBH there are many places in BKK similar to the one you have suggested. They sell Thai market favorites prepared to a higher standard and served in a clean air con environment. They are aimed at the well dressed middle classes who have the money to enjoy them and been seen doing it. 

Sometimes the food is wonderful and a worth every penny. Other times it is a bland representation of the original served up in a pretty dress.

For me in anywhere but central BKK the bi-lingual menu is something that usually warns me off this type of Thai food to be honest. I like to find places that never expect a foreigner then I can usually be assured as to it's authenticity and flavour.  ( of course this doesn't apply when overseas when Thai isn't the national language )

Edited August 24, 2016 by Pdaz

[LennyW]

Looks like the same westernised/chineseified attempts at Thai food that is common in most big cities in the west, bland at best and usually way overpriced.

[LennyW]

6 hours ago, Pdaz said:

It's not 'better'. It's just Thai style food made for Western Taste. The poncy Michelin judges wouldn't know what real Thai food is meant to taste like if it bit them on the a55.

 

It's no different to saying a Michilin starred resto's interpretation of "Roast Beef" is better than my home cooked version.. Their's maybe fancier and prettier to look at but it's not "better"

 

Horses for courses... 

Exactly.

LOL !! What is the difference between "Western tastes (or any other tastes for that matter) and sophisticated San Francisco foodies" ha ha, thats a belter!!

[Pdaz]

San Fran Foodies is code for Wealthy Gay Asian Americans I believe 

 

By Western taste I was trying to describe the different expectations of a particular dishes.

 

Asian guy, Good Curry = Meat/Fish on the bone, Fish paste/Lot of chilli and garlic etc

White dude, Good Curry = No bones, Lean meat, Creamy coconut milk, no fish paste and not too spicy

 

Different folks, different strokes.. Of course these are simple stereotypes as despite myself being a whitey expat I love curries with bones, skin, fish paste and heaps of chilli

[joepattaya1961]

Went with a couple of Thai to a Thai/Vietnamese restaurant near Geneva once. 

After 2 days without Thai food, they were dying for some "decent" stuff.

 

OK, the place was an up-scale "Imbiss", the food was found terrible; cooked with Thai ingredients but according to Western taste or in other words: no taste at all. 

 

Comparing Thai restaurants in Thailand (even upscale) with Thai restaurants in the rest of the World is like comparing apples and eggs. 

[Michael8511]

I don't know but I always get better and more authentic Thai food here, I'm used to eesan home cooking when it comes to taste and a lot of restaurants here like in us and Europe cater to western taste if you don't tell them. Every time we go out and eat my partner orders and the waitstaff are always surprised that I eat his food. So yes they don't make food for westerner ghost spicy. Also at the beach we eat papaya salad with the crab but if I would go and order and the lady don't recognize me she make it western style. When it comes to presentation I think there is nothing to complain off if you don't eat off the street wendors. I personally like the food at the pine or surf kitchen but there also if they don't know you like spicy food they will prepare it western style as in most other restaurants. "Jingthing" I read most of your posts and 90 % of them have always something negative to bring up. You been here many years so you should be able to find a place that serv you Thai food of your liking. Or you just bored and like to steer the pot.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Michael8511
Spelled jingthings name wrong

[petermik]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You don't get what I'm talking about.

Sadly this happens with many of your threads in TVF ...........

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, petermik said:

Sadly this happens with many of your threads in TVF ...........

 Whatever, dude.

You get my point now, don't you dude?

I've explained it multiple times now. If people don't get it, they are either slow or just WANT to talk about something else nothing to do with THIS topic. 

 

Let's take this is another direction now.

The poster who said Bangkok people trying to find Bangkok level really excellent Thai food in Pattaya are not finding it here.

 

I'm not either.

I think it does not exist here.

 

Enough with the stupid and homophobic insults about San Franciscan food appreciators.

San Francisco is one of the top food cities on the planet.

And that very much includes a number of Asian cuisines.

Good luck finding Chinese food in Pattaya as good as in S.F., for example. You won't ... ever.

As is Bangkok. As is Singapore. 

 

Pattaya just isn't.

 

Again, WHERE in Pattaya?

 

And if my theory is correct, NOWHERE here, what's up with that?

What's gone wrong in the market here that restaurants feel they can just be lazy and not bother?

Edited August 25, 2016 by Jingthing

[petermik]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 Whatever, dude.

You get my point now, don't you dude?

I've explained it multiple times now. If people don't get it, they are either slow or just WANT to talk about something else nothing to do with THIS topic. 

 

Let's take this is another direction now.

The poster who said Bangkok people trying to find Bangkok level really excellent Thai food in Pattaya are not finding it here.

 

I'm not either.

I think it does not exist here.

 

Enough with the stupid and homophobic insults about San Franciscan food appreciators.

San Francisco is one of the top food cities on the planet.

As is Bangkok. As is Singapore. 

 

Pattaya just isn't.

 

Again, WHERE in Pattaya?

 

And if my theory is correct, NOWHERE here, what's up with that?

What's gone wrong in the market here that restaurants feel they can just be lazy and not bother?