Thailand embarks on program to ensure citizens speak English

[chainarong]

I find doing anything in Thai without a Thai present is useless , I had no trouble in Phnom Penh.

[chainarong]

2 hours ago, oilinki said:

I'm curious how many hours do other non-English speaking countries teach English in primary and secondary schools? 

 

I was told that in Phnom Penh they do half day in English and the second part Cambodian , no idea about country schools.  , I asked how come their English was so good, far better than Thailand's, that was the reply. 

[chainarong]

1 minute ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

 

The Cambodians had far superior English than the Thais in the mid-90's, when I first rocked up there.

 

Remarkable considering they were a closed shop until 1992 and had recently suffered a genocide. 

Tank yu Farda.................................

[NativeSon360]

The British began teaching English in Thailand (Bangkok Christian School, 1852) , and that was 70 years prior to the British officially teaching English within their own colonies of Burma & Malaya. 

 

International travelers are hard-pressed to find an English-speaking Thai person, even with a university degree, @ either of Bangkok's International Airports, 164-years later.

 

The Thai Ministry of Education officials will probably spend the next 10-years, just talking about how to implement productive change, within the public education system. Don't hold your breaths, waiting for that active epiphany to blossom. 

Edited August 31, 2016 by NativeSon360

[PatOngo]

I felt the need to escape the twilight zone for the past few days so have been in Siem Reap and their knowledge of English is quite refreshing. Even the tuk tuk boys have a grasp. 

[NativeSon360]

38 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

I felt the need to escape the twilight zone for the past few days so have been in Siem Reap and their knowledge of English is quite refreshing. Even the tuk tuk boys have a grasp. 

Indeed! Many Cambodians also learning to (un_officially) speak Mandarin, as well. Very, very smart

[JAG]

2 hours ago, orchidlady said:

They were supposed to have done this last summer with British Council. What happened?

 

The budget has probably been completely "managed".

[NativeSon360]

6 minutes ago, JAG said:

 

The budget has probably been completely "managed".

Right on the money,

[NativeSon360]

1 hour ago, lostinisaan said:

"We picked 350 teachers who are considered to be the cream of the crop for English boot camp training," said the official.

 

From there, the best 28 teachers will be chosen as master trainers and will be spread out around the country to 18 English-teaching facilities where school administrators and educators in the nearby area can receive training from the centers.

 

The millions of tourists who visit Thailand each year usually face little difficulty in communicating because they mostly interact with hotel staff, salespeople in malls and markets, and other tourism-related staff who would have learned the language on the job

 

It's not just the lack of good English speaking Thai teachers that makes the whole system to a big joke.

 

  So, 28 Super teachers will finally change the whole system and will be "spread around" the country? 

 

   These people do not seem to know how it is to walk into a Thai classroom, even the grade one kids know that they can't fail.

 

   The two classes of grade six I've got for an hour a week, can't even write their names in English, they don't understand the easiest questions after "studying English" for more than five years......

 

 If there's a meeting at our school it's always conducted in Thai, nobody wants to lose face and that's where the problem is.

 

  How can teachers teach kids English if they can't even speak a few words in a meeting? 

 

  I know quite a lot of teachers who've got a Master's in English, but can't even understand very easy English. Our grade six teacher's using 95 % of Thai in her English lessons.

 

  After the CEFR dilemma where it turned out that most, or at least too many of them were under A 2 level, it was all in a sudden changed into successful and satisfying results? 

 

To understand what a CEFR A 2 level English is, it's about the level of a 6, or 7 year old native English speaking kid.

 

   Here's an article from last year where they thought it would "boost" the peoples' ability in English, but....

 

      https://asiancorrespondent.com/2015/04/thai-schools-adopt-european-framework-to-boost-english-language-proficiency/

 

    Even the little kids know that they'll come to the next grade and nobody fails. Would a foreign teacher really submit the grades the students deserve, the foreigner would be jobless.

 

     All students receive a minimum of at least 60 %, nobody fails and even students at high schools who never attended class, pass the final test.

 

    A classic example at a well -known high school in lower north east, when it turned out that too many grade 12 students failed their tests made by their foreign teachers and the ones from Bangkok.

 

    A one weekend "immersion camp" and all students had the right grades. I could go on and on and on, but that's not changing anything.

 

  Let the guys who want to become English teachers study abroad, they do come back and speak good English and they don't lose face anymore.

 

 Allow all students from grade one to 12 to ask their teachers questions if they don't understand a lesson. A teacher can't lose face by not knowing the right answer. 

 

Even Einstein made the statement : "I know that I know nothing.". Do Thais understand the meaning of the sentence? 

 

Let the students fail who think they can do what they want and let them repeat the school year and they'll change their attitude. 

 

  If  English teachers, including foreigners aren't able to score at least C 1 in a CEFR test, then don't let them teach English.

 

   If a flight attendant who usually speaks more than two languages has to have at least B +, how can a guy with a TOEIC under 600 be able to teach English? 

 

   But it seems that nobody really wants to know what's going on. Blame others for it. 

 

   

 

      

 

      

 

     

 

 

 

   

 

   

Haven't you figure out the Thai style yet? Don't you know that Thais are a  perfectly evolved people, who are never wrong about anything?  How dare you criticize the Thai education system. After all The Rajabhat University system has been cranking-out Thai (English) teachers for nearly 40-years now.

Edited August 31, 2016 by NativeSon360

[Hawk]

Thai students are not willing to learn so this will go nowhere as usual.

[Lingba]

3 hours ago, ourmanflint said:

this never gets old!

 

 

 

Classic...and the truth

[Squeegee]

8 minutes ago, NativeSon360 said:

I certainly hope those 28 "Master" teachers also possess a "working" knowledge of the Thai language,

 

Imagine if Thailand had a concept of the follow-up story, to see in 10 years what these 28 super individuals will have passed down to the population still in school during that decade.

 

I wonder if they fail, will they be moved to inactive posts, or if they succeed, will the world finally catch on that Thailand is indeed the greatest nation on Earth, as they wear their clogs and smiles?

[Winniedapu]

1 hour ago, lostinisaan said:

"We picked 350 teachers who are considered to be the cream of the crop for English boot camp training," said the official.

 

<snip>

 

   But it seems that nobody really wants to know what's going on. Blame others for it.

   

 

I sympathise with your frustration; I think you hit the nail on the head in your last sentence. I don't think they do want to know because that would contrast with the picture they have in their heads that everything is going swimmingly well, and that Thailand and Thais are special. Thai exceptionalism.

 

When the people at the top of the tree don't really have any clue, how can we expect people at the bottom to do a good job? Many EL programs are managed by Filipinas in Thailand. They speak English that Thais just can't seem to get their heads or their tongues around.  Thai is without a doubt the laziest language I've ever encountered, and I can speak English, American English, Australian English, French and German so I know what it's like to learn a language and imho, learning Thai is nothing like learning a language, even without the constantly changing fashionable parts of the language.

 

Winnie

Edited August 31, 2016 by Winniedapu

[NativeSon360]

2 minutes ago, Hawk said:

Thai students are not willing to learn so this will go nowhere as usual.

Thai students are not encouraged to learn, being that the system treats them like little automaton, goose-stepping soldiers, who are actually afraid to ask a question in class. I truly pity the children of Thailand, in that regard.

[Squeegee]

7 minutes ago, NativeSon360 said:

Thai students are not encouraged to learn

 

Yes. It's completely wrong to say Thai kids don't want to learn.

 

They are kids, just the same as any other kids. The culture they are immersed in is what closes them to learning.

 

 

 

This story proves arrogant Thailand thinks it can itself teach English to its population.

 

Arrogant Thailand is more than welcome to try and do it itself.

 

Arrogant Thailand deserves to have to try to do it itself.

[NativeSon360]

27 minutes ago, Lingba said:

 

Classic...and the truth

Excellent. Thanks for sharing.

[boomerangutang]

I taught for awhile at a Thai U.  One day, as class was letting out, a group of 3 girls asked whether I would tutor them.  They then showed me some study material given them by their Thai national Eng. teacher.  I looked at it.  It was bizarre.  I politely declined.  I couldn't make heads or tails of the Thai person's English homework.  

 

Another time, I looked in a library and found an English study book for Thai students.  It was chock full of ridiculous words which haven't been used in conversational English since Chaucer's time.  Why burdon Thai students with garbage which they will never use in an English conversation?

 

 

 

 

[petedk]

40 minutes ago, Hawk said:

Thai students are not willing to learn so this will go nowhere as usual.

 

 

You have hit the nail on the head.

You can give them 10 hours a week, but it won't help if they are not interested.

 

Thai students have every opportunity to learn English if they want. The internet is full of videos and webpages where they can learn English. It is true however that TV and radio lack English content. I am sure when I came here 20 years ago I heard much more English on the radio and I remember watching some films on TV in original soundtrack and with Thai subtitles. Most of that has disappeared now.

 

I met a taxi driver on Sunday and I was really surprised as to how much English he could speak and with a very good accent. He showed me a little notebook he had where he had written down all the words he needed to know. He knew many the American version of many British words. His sentences were long and (mostly) grammatically correct. I believe he spoke better English than a few English teachers at our university, but obviously he doesn't have a master's degree or PhD in English so he can't choose that profession.

 

It just goes to show that if the student wants to learn English they can if they make an effort.

 

 

[jamesbrock]

I wonder what the racist "nativist" Khun Srisuwan thinks about this?

[MrMuddle]

There is a huge, untapped, resource of ex-pat talent that the authorities here refuse to use. I am retired, have qualifications in teaching English to speakers of other languages, (ESOL), yet I can't do any work here to help people learn English !
I would willingly give up a few hours a day, for a reasonable rate of pay, (and it would be nice if this made the visa process easier), but they don't want to know.

[Winniedapu]

2 hours ago, fiddlehead said:

I, for one,  am glad to hear they are going to make the effort.

I don't know if I feel more sorry for the kids that don't get good teachers, or the expats who make fun of it all.

 

 

 

Well, to be fair, all the effort they've already made over the years has had little effect that is useful.

 

Foreigners would be justified in thinking this time will be no different. Fine words but nothing else. That's what foreigners make fun of, the fact that even the small things are not achievable - and that is due to due to the culture that so many have worked so hard to establish. Even that has been a pyrrhic victory..

 

Winnie

[lostinisaan]

7 minutes ago, Hawk said:

Thai students are not willing to learn so this will go nowhere as usual.

 

 That's not true. A lot of them are pretty good and understand the importance of English for their future. 

 

  Here's what a friend's friend told my friend. Of course would I never think that this is true. Here's what he said:

  

    It's the system that suckss. And they can rename the baby again and again. most of the "World Class Standard" schools have directors who don't give a flying kangaroo about the students' pedagogical skills. Money is all that counts.

 

     Please try to bring your "Luuk Krueng", or your wife's son from first marriage into an EP and you'll find out that it's quite expensive to get them into a better school, which doesn't necessarily have to be a good one. A lot of them only have a good reputation and that's what people pay for.

 

  Many school directors "use the service of an agency," finally pay more than hiring directly, but the kickback is better, so who cares? Native English speakers from Nigeria, Hungary, Germany, India and the Philippines then educate your son and within a year, your kid will be fluent in Tinggermish. 

 

  I'm always wondering why school directors do not seem to speak English,but wait, he, or she had to buy the position for a couple of million baht and the person doesn't have to be an educated human being.

 

Corrupt and having his/her hands in everything that happens inside, but also outside of the campus. Even some ice cream money disappears in their pockets. 

 

  The shopkeepers also have to pay and the number one gets his/her cut.  

 

   But not just the parents pay for all the insanity. Would a Thai teacher like to teach in his/her hometown, such a position would cost him/her around 400 K, which happened to my neighbor and old friend a few moons ago. All she said was that they can stick their job into something where the sun doesn't shine.

 

  Thai teachers in general do not speak good about foreigners, which might be a reason that not too many students have respect for a foreign teacher, no matter how old, fat, ugly, or smart he/she is.

 

  It's impossible that a foreigner can be a better teacher than a Thai, which might sound strange. It will never stop that they announce some great ideas how to change the system. 

 

It won't happen if they don't start at the top and take them down from their high thrones. What's really surprising is that the new generation of English teachers is in no way better than the old ones. Please go to a Rajabhat and try to find a good English speaking senior student. It's like winning the lottery.

   

Please don't misunderstand my words, I'm in no way Thai bashing, I really like the country and many of its people.. It's only about some people who believe that they are so special. All provinces have their own banks only for Thai teachers, where foreigners can't open an account  and of course can they not have a 0.1 % credit of 2 million baht.

 

    Foreigners have the right to pay into the SS insurance, but foreigners' numbers do not exist in reality. These numbers usually show age, gender, nationality, but the foreigners' numbers are not in the system. But typing only the number doesn't show the details of a foreigner, but it works for Thais.

 

  I had a question and a guy who worked at the Amphur office typed my SS number in, but I didn't/don't exist in the system. He called the main office in the city and they started to lie about it and told him that my passport number would be on the insurance card. But there's no passport number. 

 

  All foreigners contribute 750 baht, but they don't exist?  Please correct me if I'm wrong. They might have changed the system and all foreigners have the rights, their Thai colleagues got? Then it's time for a Benz, really. 

 

A Thai teacher who marries a farang automatically has insurance for the individual, but vice versa, a foreigner can't have his Thai wife in the same insurance, even when it's a law written by the highest person in the Kingdom. The SS law. 

 

    Please don't start to ask why it's not possible. They don't like people who ask too many questions. We'll find you....

 

     You can get an old age pension once you've paid in a certain amount of years, when you're 55 you can have all the money back that you've paid in, including the cash from your employer.

 

   But nobody would push you up  being the "head of something" to receive a higher pension, what they usually do with their own folks. We're not really good enough to be treated the same way. But wait, we're only guests, right? 

 

  About four years ago, Bangkok Post started with News in English every morning and i thought great, it was time for such a change. But they stopped after a few months, no idea why. Maybe because not enough people wanted that?

 

  The hub of education became the hub of jokes.  Some World Class Standard schools even lost the Cl before the word Class Standard School.

 

  But it's such a nice country and ruled by people who know exactly what they don't want. Bad boys out, good boys in. 

 

 

 

  

 

   

 

      

        

 

  

       

[Winniedapu]

26 minutes ago, petedk said:

 

 

You have hit the nail on the head.

You can give them 10 hours a week, but it won't help if they are not interested.

 

Thai students have every opportunity to learn English if they want. The internet is full of videos and webpages where they can learn English. It is true however that TV and radio lack English content. I am sure when I came here 20 years ago I heard much more English on the radio and I remember watching some films on TV in original soundtrack and with Thai subtitles. Most of that has disappeared now.

 

I met a taxi driver on Sunday and I was really surprised as to how much English he could speak and with a very good accent. He showed me a little notebook he had where he had written down all the words he needed to know. He knew many the American version of many British words. His sentences were long and (mostly) grammatically correct. I believe he spoke better English than a few English teachers at our university, but obviously he doesn't have a master's degree or PhD in English so he can't choose that profession.

 

It just goes to show that if the student wants to learn English they can if they make an effort.

 

 

 

What you say rings true. Thais do not want to learn a 'lesser' language because they do not see the need and will not see the need until they teeter on the edge of the precipice, by which time they will be even more the pariah of ASEAN as well as one of the world's pariah states..

 

Their culture teaches them above all, that Thais are 'special', 'blessed', that 'angels look after them', that they've never been colonised (read 'defeated'), no matter what the reality is that they never learn because they're never been taught.

 

I gave up on these people several years ago. Now I live my life quietly, with my (wait for it... Thai) family, and I get my Thai wife to deal with all Thais, or whom she has as little time as I do, though she is better at camouflaging that. I sometimes deal myself with Chinese, though not often and I deal with the occasional English-speaking foreigners that we bump into for the obvious reason than none of my family have been able to get their heads or tongues around English - It's a much harder language to learn as an adult than Thai was to learn as a child.

 

One day, and I believe I will live to see it, the whole edifice will come crashing down on their heads. My job is to make sure my family is well-educated and can withstand the tsunami that is as certain to come as the sun is to rise tomorrow.

 

I'm not anti-Thai, I'm not 'down on Thais'. I don't think Thais are inferior, they just are what they've been taught to be. I choose to enjoy the weather here, enjoy the prices here (though they used to be cheaper), enjoy my retirement here and a simple life here, and quietly to stay away from them whenever possible. That's my choice by right and I made it. Better for them, better for me, better all around because whatever they do or say to the contrary, Thais will not assimilate foreigners into their community, though some try hard to create that impression - to their own advantage for whatever benefit it may be. I believe that those people who think otherwise are deluding themselves, we will always be outsiders, and I for one find it much more comfortable and satisfying to accept that and do what pleases me, not do what I think will please someone else.

 

Winnie

[Thechook]

OMG are they rolling this tired worn out crap again?  Month after month, year after year and decade after decade.  

[Thechook]

45 minutes ago, MrMuddle said:

There is a huge, untapped, resource of ex-pat talent that the authorities here refuse to use. I am retired, have qualifications in teaching English to speakers of other languages, (ESOL), yet I can't do any work here to help people learn English !
I would willingly give up a few hours a day, for a reasonable rate of pay, (and it would be nice if this made the visa process easier), but they don't want to know.

Thais are better English teachers than some qualified native speaker

[freebyrd]

2 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

 

The Cambodians had far superior English than the Thais in the mid-90's, when I first rocked up there.

 

Remarkable considering they were a closed shop until 1992 and had recently suffered a genocide. 

 

When I worked in Thailand, I had to speak Thai. 10 years working in Cambodia and I speak minimal Khmer. The standard of English here is indeed amazing. A fair number of Tuk Tuk drivers here can speak English - and some have wireless on their vehicles now.

[Winniedapu]

4 minutes ago, Thechook said:

Thais are better English teachers than some qualified native speaker

 

 

I doubt that is generally true, or true at all beyond the one or two people whose faces you could see in your mind when you wrote it.

 

Winnie

[lostinisaan]

15 minutes ago, Thechook said:

Thais are better English teachers than some qualified native speaker

 

 

     A mate in Ubon would love to teach some hours a week, but schools are not interested in getting him a work permit. 

 

        He's from London and would be an asset to most schools. 

 

   But they are ignorant and blind. 

[NativeSon360]

1 hour ago, petedk said:

 

 

You have hit the nail on the head.

You can give them 10 hours a week, but it won't help if they are not interested.

 

Thai students have every opportunity to learn English if they want. The internet is full of videos and webpages where they can learn English. It is true however that TV and radio lack English content. I am sure when I came here 20 years ago I heard much more English on the radio and I remember watching some films on TV in original soundtrack and with Thai subtitles. Most of that has disappeared now.

 

I met a taxi driver on Sunday and I was really surprised as to how much English he could speak and with a very good accent. He showed me a little notebook he had where he had written down all the words he needed to know. He knew many the American version of many British words. His sentences were long and (mostly) grammatically correct. I believe he spoke better English than a few English teachers at our university, but obviously he doesn't have a master's degree or PhD in English so he can't choose that profession.

 

It just goes to show that if the student wants to learn English they can if they make an effort.

 

 

50 years ago, the average Thai was far better educated, with only a P-6 level public school achievement, prior to being forced to work in the rice patty, to support their family.

 

Apparently, the Thai elite are (as usual) copying the American/British way of "governing" the masses.Many accolades are due to Pink Floyd, for brilliantly conveying the message, back in 1979. Way to go, chaps

Edited August 31, 2016 by NativeSon360

[djayz]

How many more programs are they going to embark on????