Students are now suffering because policymakers failed to do their homework

[debate101]

There are plenty of knowledgable and qualified Thais who would make great teachers in many subjects. Unfortunately, the teacher recruitment process is corrupt as hell. The entrance tests are nonsensical. Correct responses are given in advance to those with proper connections or those who know the right people and can pay the right price. Cheating is rampant.

 

All desirable positions are bought. If someone with actual skills does slip through the cracks and succeed on merit, they are usually ostracized by their jealous, petty co-workers. Many quickly transfer or quit. 

 

Department heads stuff their offices with relatives and political allies to ensure total control and smooth relations. Academic results and public accountability are not even in the equation. The rot is immense.

[Fookhaht]

10 hours ago, wotsdermatter said:

My first job in Thailand, 1996, was at Rajabat in Nakhom Pathom.  After asking every Thai instructor what the grade requirements were for the department, I was told by all that that was up to me.  There were two volunteer instructors from the USA, one with a master degree in TEFL from Michigan State.  They both told me they started their passing grades at 60 and so I informed all of my students of my grading system; anything over 60 was assigned an appropriate grade but the cut-off of 59 and under was a fail.  I was appalled at the level the students were functioning at and they struggled to understand the simplest of written and spoken information. They were pushed way beyond their usual low levels because they had assignments to do and complete by specific dates, etc.  Only a few failed but the  reaction of the Thai instructors when students failed was to "gang" up  on me and they said the pass mark should have been set at 40 and up.  The head of the department met with some of them then had a meeting with me.  She asked if the students had been informed of the grading system I would use and she was shown my record book with all of the details outlined in it.  She accepted that. I confronted all of the Thai instructors and pointed out that their complaints were not justified as they had been asked on my first day what the acceptable grading system was and I told them of their response to my question.  A week later, I was asked to leave the establishment because some of the instructors had met with the person in charge of the institute and laid out complaints.  I was never told what the complaints were, although I guessed what they were.  One one instructor and the head of the department continued to talk to me after my confronting them although instructors from other departments did and some informed me that the complaints were done out of spite and jealousy because my grades were higher than the others and the students had reached out and performed beyond everybody's expectations.  Thar was my introduction to a very poor and weak education system.  Incidentally, I taught tourism and English literature.

This mirrors my experience, almost exactly, in an English department of a major university here.  

The expected game is that, yes, you are told "it's up to you" when you inquire about the standards.  Yet, it's really not up to you.   This reaction from the Thai staff is often because there is no explicit, written grading standard.  (If something IS written down, it's window-dressing only). 

It is assumed that when the semester ends and your preliminary grades are calculated, that you start to do the old "give and take" with both students, other teachers, and administrators.  It really has little to do with the actual evaluation of a student.  It has everything to do with making the department look good.  If you don't buckle under, it's their way or the highway.  

Well, on second thought, there is a "middle ground" of sorts.  If you refuse to change your grades, in order to keep a good foreign teacher, the department supervisor, faculty dean, or higher administration may change those grades after you have been told everything is finally settled and you can do your final submission.  More than once, students I have failed turned up the following year, bumped up to the next level, or class, when they had failed the prerequisites for getting there.  Going back into the grading system, I found the grades had, indeed, been changed.  It is not unusual for parents' money, passed under the table, to have become part of the equation.  

Nearly every foreign teacher here has to undergo major compromises in their profession.  Some can take it, others cannot and refuse.  The former enjoy a longer albeit substandard level of teaching, while the latter go packing.  

I'd hate to guess how many decades this has gone on at all levels of Thai education where foreigners are involved.   As a result, it's created some serious disillusionment, emotional turmoil, and even breakdowns  among new foreign teachers.  The other obvious result has been the dumbing-down of Thai education. 

 

Edited September 4, 2016 by Fookhaht

[MissAndry]

13 hours ago, Scotwight said:

Teachers in the West sit exams after graduation?  Ya sure. 

 

Don't know about sitting exams, but if I couldn't instantly answer any of my students questions on the GCSE or AS level papers they just sat, I would have been in deep doo doo.

 

Not to mention, most of the revision classes leading up to the exams were based around past exam papers, and I needed to be able to answer any question, from any past paper, in front of the class.

[jaltsc]

"Students will take crucial exams just once and simultaneously. With their test scores they can then apply to their preferred higher-education institutes. The higher their score, the better chance of being accepted."

 

This doesn't address the most critical matter. If a high score on the test reflects how much one has learned from the curriculum presented, and that curriculum is deficient, all the test reflects is a student's ability to absorb non essential material.

 

Going back to the system from 1961 until 2001 doesn't appear to be the answer. After all, the country is presently being run by people from that cohort. Need I say say more?

Edited September 4, 2016 by jaltsc

[wotsdermatter]

On 9/3/2016 at 11:11 PM, Fookhaht said:

This mirrors my experience, almost exactly, in an English department of a major university here.  

The expected game is that, yes, you are told "it's up to you" when you inquire about the standards.  Yet, it's really not up to you.   This reaction from the Thai staff is often because there is no explicit, written grading standard.  (If something IS written down, it's window-dressing only). 

It is assumed that when the semester ends and your preliminary grades are calculated, that you start to do the old "give and take" with both students, other teachers, and administrators.  It really has little to do with the actual evaluation of a student.  It has everything to do with making the department look good.  If you don't buckle under, it's their way or the highway.  

Well, on second thought, there is a "middle ground" of sorts.  If you refuse to change your grades, in order to keep a good foreign teacher, the department supervisor, faculty dean, or higher administration may change those grades after you have been told everything is finally settled and you can do your final submission.  More than once, students I have failed turned up the following year, bumped up to the next level, or class, when they had failed the prerequisites for getting there.  Going back into the grading system, I found the grades had, indeed, been changed.  It is not unusual for parents' money, passed under the table, to have become part of the equation.  

Nearly every foreign teacher here has to undergo major compromises in their profession.  Some can take it, others cannot and refuse.  The former enjoy a longer albeit substandard level of teaching, while the latter go packing.  

I'd hate to guess how many decades this has gone on at all levels of Thai education where foreigners are involved.   As a result, it's created some serious disillusionment, emotional turmoil, and even breakdowns  among new foreign teachers.  The other obvious result has been the dumbing-down of Thai education. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In reply to the above, I Wotsdermatter say:

 

Having a doctoral degree in clinical psychology, with minors in several other subjects, I have always refused to compromise my professionalism to anybody.  I experienced the same problem at two other locations, ironically there were also Rajabat institutes.  Each time, students were informed of my grading system and "seemed" to comprehend my intentions and that the outcome would be to their benefit.  The system here will never develop from what it is, especially when students spend a lot of time "studying Buddhism" and under the current regime "Thainess."  Sadly, nobody can even tell me what the latter "subject" consists of but they all go around saying "Thais are unique."  Are they talking tongue in cheek of are they serious?  Incidentally, a few years ago, I did write a comprehensive report to the Minister of Education outlining several recommendations to improve the education system and bring it into more into line with that of other countries.  I did that after finding that Thailand usually came bottom, or nearly so whenever their students entered Academic Contests.  One recommendation was that nobody holding "any degree" should be allowed to participate in the educational system.  Rather, when a person applies for a  position at a secondary or tertiary education institute, their alma mater should be contacted outlining the personal information of the candidate.  By that, they could confirm the credentials of the applicant.  All that is needed is for the administration to look for the university concerned and e-mail the Registrar outlining the person's year of graduation, subject, student number, full name, etc.  Universities are only too happy to provide such information.  Apparently, a few institutions have started to do so but most do not and that contributes to low standards because so many applicants are not qualified in any way to be employed and many have only "degrees" that are not true degrees.  Go to Koa San Road and for a very small price, it is possible to get a degree from just about any university from the west, in any subject. 

 

On 9/3/2016 at 11:11 PM, Fookhaht said: