Why are the elderly so bitter?

[jmd8800]

Anger is easy to spot a mile away. And at that distance a smile is seldom seen.

 

For every outburst I would guess there are many more unnoticed acts of kindness. Be it Thai or farang. I would guess that to be global and not just Thailand or CM.

 

Anger, bitterness, rage stands out way more than calmness and happiness.

 

 

[oxo1947]

They have probably been out for the last 2-3 days trying to remember the way back home.........

 

I was told by my Doctor that I have the onset of dementia.
But I'm going to see my Doctor about it.

Edited September 4, 2016 by oxo1947
Forgot I posted it............

[jacko45k]

Aren't old people bitter in many countries, including their own.... grumpy at least.

Loneliness, frustration all add to it..... here a common cause is a hangover.

[chiang mai]

36 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Aren't old people bitter in many countries, including their own.... grumpy at least.

Loneliness, frustration all add to it..... here a common cause is a hangover.

 

That's an assumption and not necessarily a valid one, I'm 67, I get grumpy at times but I don't drink! (maybe I should start)

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

Why do you spend so much time trying to analise other people ? Just live your life as you see fit and let the rest live theirs.

[puukao]

31 minutes ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

Why do you spend so much time trying to analise other people ? Just live your life as you see fit and let the rest live theirs.

Missing the point.  Guy fighting Thai waitress 1 foot from me.  Looks like he might start throwing things.  

 

When end someone punches a rekative or friend. Next to you, should I say mind your own business?   Or try to understand?   

 

No. Sorry if most on here are afraid to do anything.   This is why terrorism works.  Do you want me to leave them alone?

 

use your head.  

[Konini]

We're not 'old' old, early 50's, but recently my mind has been turning to 10 or 20 years down the track and what kind of physical or mental state we might find ourselves in.  Any kind of serious illness or degenerative condition and we'll be going back home - part of the reason we've chosen not to fly under the radar and continue to pay our taxes, and we will undoubtedly be paying taxes until the day we die thanks to risky when we were younger and now very conservative investments, but I wonder how many of these unhappy people would be able to do that?  Even if their government would take care of them with pension and healthcare, I have found that a lot of the people I talk to have pretty much burned their bridges.

 

 It's great when you're young and fit and have enough money to come on a big adventure and live in a developing country, but I'm not sure that everyone who has done this has thought it through properly and now find themselves getting older, poorer and less physically or mentally capable.  These thoughts would be enough to make a glass half empty type grumpy and even bitter.  I watched my father in law die very slowly and very painfully over almost 3 years, and it was awful; not just for him but for the rest of the family.  He was well taken care of, but if he were in a foreign country on limited means with nobody to care if he lived or died, it would have been much worse for him.  Perhaps some of these people are thinking ahead to this kind of scenario playing out. Thai government hospitals are OK if you're sick and can't afford private facilities, but I wouldn't want to be in one for any length of time.  I have an exit plan worked out as long as it's my body that goes first, but if it's my mind, I may not be capable of knowing when it's time to go; sometimes that scares me and I'm not here alone, as well as having an bigger and much closer than average extended family back home.  Maybe this kind of thought weighs heavily on the mind's of those who are getting older and are for all intents and purposes stuck here without friends (often down to their own actions) and without that support network back home to draw on or go and live out their last days with.  Rather than being annoyed or dismayed at the more unpleasant ones, I pity them.

 

On a much brighter note though, and something that will affect an awful lot of us in time to come, is research released last week showing that a quarterly injection of some newly discovered substance will not only halt the plaques in the brain that cause dementia, but actually reverse existing plaques, which could make that terrible condition a thing of the past.  It will be a few years until bigger studies are completed and the treatment made available to the rest of us, but it's certainly good news.

[smotherb]

Quite frankly, I have seen more younger expats than older ones acting as you suggest, "simply bitter, sad, mad, crazy, . . . really embarrass themselves . . . yelling at Thais over money, yelling at Thais over lack of English skills . . . poor with no future . . ." However, I do not live in an area of retired expats—and it wasn’t a subconscious decision. Most of my farang acquaintances are 20 to 40 years younger than I.

 

I do believe that the trappings of old age can engender the symptoms you suggest—health fails, financial planning fails, relationships fail; everything fails. So, what do you suggest they do; turn back the clock, lose the bitterness? You seem to be just realizing a fact of life; welcome to the real world.

[Kabula]

Anger stems from fear.

 

Fear of losing a pension, a currency devaluation,  stock or bond market retreat, a terminal medical problem or constant pain, a divorce, separation from family.  As the body changes, many lose self confidence and suffer from depression.

 

Most of those old guys you refer to protected the sovereignty of your country while in the military, providing you freedom.  Many were farmers that provided food for your family.

 

Perhaps you should concentrate more on your spelling and what Thailand has to offer, than focusing on seniors who now have a very difficult time with affordable health insurance, trying to earn and save money.

 

You should also focus on your own happiness, as what kind of a life do you have focusing on old men when beautiful women are everywhere.

[Bob9]

Gotta agree with the poster - but I also agree with some of the posters in reply. 

 

I see them a lot - KSK, Malls, Rimping, Tops etc etc.  At first I was a little taken aback how many there were in CM. What I mean by that is in comparison to the number of 'normal' expats in BKK and Pattaya (by normal I mean not bitter). It seemed to me that for the first few months I was here, most of the expats were bitter grumpy old men - the look on their face was like their child had just died and they ate a lemon. After a few 'difficult' encounters, I started to do what most other expats do - avoid interaction with other expats (same for the local BiB).  After a long while I started to recognise the 'normal' ones, and was able to have some interactions.

 

I have had some involvement with male depression back home (family member, friends, and some volunteer stuff), and it aint a good thing - and it sometimes ends badly (seems to end that way a lot here).  What I observed was that many of the depressed old men were self-centred aholes in their prior lives. Some were the obvious mean and nasty type aholes, but some were the ignorant foolish aholes - both never thought much about others in their lives.  What I saw was that they can be helped - but they have got to take those first steps towards getting themselves sorted out - they will then find that there are people who will help.

 

My advice on this matter is in line with Nancy's great advice - especially about putting things together.   If you are a bit grumpy, but are otherwise OK - try to also find something that makes you positive (eg. golf or fishing - not just drinking and bar girls), and to plan ahead a bit more (and try to vent a little less).  If you are bitter and twisted and alone (or being used), then in addition to the advice above (especially Nancy's) I would seriously advise joining some sort of expat group and start doing something with other expats - not just whinging on this website. Maybe you aint easy to get along with and you know that - but try anyway - you will be surprised how 'forgiving' older expats can be (we have all been that grumpy guy at sometime in our life).

[lumply]

Ah the age thing.  Late 60's slowing down a bit but still working full time, travelling extensively, flying aeroplanes, adequate money in the bank, many friends across the age spectrum, a little more sensitive to noisy I'll behaved children and loud music. Grumpy? Sometimes like anyone else but not always because of life's challenges. Are all these things exceptional in ones twilight years? Not at all. Younger people do not yet have the wisdom and, depending on upbringing, could make a little more effort in the respect category but all in all, most are decent and all will find out for themselves the importance of dignity in age. Life for this old fart is pretty good and there are many around just like him.

[ClutchClark]

9 minutes ago, Bob9 said:

.  What I observed was that many of the depressed old men were self-centred aholes in their prior lives. Some were the obvious mean and nasty type aholes, but some were the ignorant foolish aholes - both never thought much about others in their lives.  What I saw was that they can be helped - but they have got to take those first steps towards getting themselves sorted out - they will then find that there are people who will help.

 

 

 

Maybe you better refrain from commenting on depression as if you know something until you actually do know something. 

 

Depression can affect anyone. To suggest that those suffering depression were most likely a-holes in their life is completely absurd. 

 

So is the notion that depressed people need to fix themselves. Depression is a debilitating illness--it is not being in a bad mood. People who suffer depression are trapped and often paralyzed by their illness. Obviously, if they could just snap out of it they would. 

[ClutchClark]

21 minutes ago, Kabula said:

Anger stems from fear.

 

Fear of losing a pension, a currency devaluation,  stock or bond market retreat, a terminal medical problem or constant pain, a divorce, separation from family.  As the body changes, many lose self confidence and suffer from depression.

 

Most of those old guys you refer to protected the sovereignty of your country while in the military, providing you freedom.  Many were farmers that provided food for your family.

 

Perhaps you should concentrate more on your spelling and what Thailand has to offer, than focusing on seniors who now have a very difficult time with affordable health insurance, trying to earn and save money.

 

You should also focus on your own happiness, as what kind of a life do you have focusing on old men when beautiful women are everywhere.

 

This is a very insightful post.

 

to the OP, one of the frequent contributors to depression is loneliness. If it bothers you to see these angry depressed old men then maybe you could take it upon yourself to strike up a conversation with them and bring something positive to their lives. Bring some of your sunshine.

[MissAndry]

2 minutes ago, lumply said:

 Late 60's slowing down a bit but still working full time,

 

That's sad, still working in your late 60s.

[ClutchClark]

3 minutes ago, MissAndry said:

 

That's sad, still working in your late 60s.

MissAndry,

 

I need to disagree with you Darlin'.

 

I will work til the day I die...if I am so lucky.

 

To me, working is a celebration of life. 

 

 

[Pinot]

I don't know. I don't see it. I live in a happy place, I guess (Phuket beach town). 

[JSixpack]

On Sunday, September 04, 2016 at 6:12 AM, chiang mai said:

 . . . remnants of the Empire who expect preferential treatment as a result or Americans (not to bash) with a superiority complex.

 

Mostly the remnants of the Empire, by nature. Americans may seem to be acting superior when they don't accept the traditional Brit claims to superiority.

 

BRITAIN is a nation of moaners who complain more than 70 times a week each.

 

Researchers found our love of complaining, like Disney dwarf Grumpy and TV’s Victor Meldrew, means we grumble at least 11 times every weekday and 16 times over the weekend.

 

It also emerged we will already have had three grumbles before we even leave the house in the morning.

In fact, Brits complain so much that more than three quarters admit to having a moan about other people moaning or complaining.

     --http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/415315/british-nation-moaners-people-complain-more-than-70-times-week-each

[chiang mai]

Just now, JSixpack said:

 

Mostly the remnants of the Empire, by nature. Americans may seem to be acting superior when they don't accept the traditional Brit claims to superiority.

 

BRITAIN is a nation of moaners who complain more than 70 times a week each.

 

Researchers found our love of complaining, like Disney dwarf Grumpy and TV’s Victor Meldrew, means we grumble at least 11 times every weekday and 16 times over the weekend.

 

It also emerged we will already have had three grumbles before we even leave the house in the morning.

In fact, Brits complain so much that more than three quarters admit to having a moan about other people moaning or complaining.

     --http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/415315/british-nation-moaners-people-complain-more-than-70-times-week-each

 

The Daily Star!!! Isn't there a forum rule somewhere that posters can't use quotes from comics to support their argument. thought there was.

[Suradit69]

Quote

Of course, not everyone, but I have seen so many old guys simply bitter, sad, mad, crazy, and they really embarrass themselves. 

 

I'm old but still loving life in Thailand. I hardly ever embarrass myself, at least compared to when I was younger and did it fairly regularly.

[bazza40]

On 04/09/2016 at 9:30 AM, MissAndry said:

There can be many explanations, for both men and women,, some might include,

 

1. Trying to survive on small amounts of pension money.

2. Constant pain from ongoing/incurable medical conditions.

3. Side effects from medication/painkillers.

4. Frustration at the language barrier, particularly if you are hard of hearing.

5. Disappointment accumulated from their life.

6. No hope left for the future.

 

It's entirely understandable IMHO.

(I'm currently on painkillers and anti-inflammatory for my broken bone and teeth, and this weekend have been particularly obnoxious and unrestrained, apologies to anyone who I've argued with on this forum) 

 

I've thought your posts of late have been more good-humoured, so keep it going.

[Sparkles]

1 minute ago, JSixpack said:

 

Mostly the remnants of the Empire, by nature. Americans may seem to be acting superior when they don't accept the traditional Brit claims to superiority.

 

BRITAIN is a nation of moaners who complain more than 70 times a week each.

 

Researchers found our love of complaining, like Disney dwarf Grumpy and TV’s Victor Meldrew, means we grumble at least 11 times every weekday and 16 times over the weekend.

 

It also emerged we will already have had three grumbles before we even leave the house in the morning.

In fact, Brits complain so much that more than three quarters admit to having a moan about other people moaning or complaining.

     --http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/415315/british-nation-moaners-people-complain-more-than-70-times-week-each

An English friend of mine living here in CM actually expressed that having something to moan about makes him happy.He was quite open about it.

Apparently ,according to him born in the midlands,those born in and around Yorkshire are top of the tree when it comes to complaining

[AlexRich]

The only 'old guys' I have met in Thailand were at a gym. All of them seemed perfectly happy here and they all seemed to have their act together ... so not all fall into the 'grumpy' category. I don't hang out in bars, so that may be the reason.

 

On this forum, the one's who are more critical of Thailand are normally referring to their own experiences or the experiences of others that they know. And let's face it, there are a lot of pitfalls to avoid if you want to make a success of living here. A younger person can make a mistake here and recover, but it is much more difficult for an older person. 

 

 

[bazza40]

I would have to say I get more frustrated with Australian bureaucracy than I do with Thai bureaucracy. The term "public service" in Australia is an oxymoron.

[Lizard2010]

I have noted over the years that Statins for cholesterol control

Seems to make people more agro

I have seen this many others have noticed it too

Plus i think as we get older we have less tolerance

But in saying that we are visitors to their country

Have to be more tolerant

That is unless someone does something to us

IMHO

 

[dotpoom]

I think we usually see in others that which we are looking for.... In 15 years living in Thailand I have only come across about 3 or 4 of who you describe. I wonder how many foreigners  in that 15 years have crossed my path..

   Your OP reminds me of something my Ex. always comes up with.

I will say something like........"men die earlier than women"....and she will come back at me with....."what about Mr. so an so down the road....."he lived till he was 96, his wife died 20 years earlier".   She forever quotes the exception to the rule.

[thai3]

Thailand is enough to piss anyone off surely, you have to be drunk to put up with it 

[Michael8511]

Yes you have many old angry farts here. The section I sat in at the beach had 10-12 oldies 8 years back, now it's 1 oldie and some new. every time I come back they decrease I asked 1 massage guy I know if they had died and he laughed and said no they fighting so they moved. When I looked closer into it they were all bitter angry and had so different opinions that they had to move away one after one. I still see them but at different sections and they are still bitching about nothing. Same at the bars, luckily there is still bars enough so they can sit and complain at separate places.

must be the water or air here in Pattaya that make older men kranky and bitter. It's a shame they were once friends and I think when you live here far from family you need a good friend. But they fight about nothing. Same in the condo building I live there is a couple and the lady complain to all tenants about everything from keeping the door open to cooking. She have nothing else to do. The other day we had breakfast on the balcony 6:30 in morning as every day and the door was open for draft. She stormed in and started to complain it was shoes in the hallway, but the shoes belonged to next condo. They love to be bitter and miserable.

[Thaidream]

I honestly believe part of the problem is with the  perception of the OP that all Senior citizens are grumpy, irritated etc. I am an older person- neither grumpy; senile or unable to conduct business or averse to technology. The majority of us are the same . What I find distressing is the constant stereotyping of people. Yes, alzheimers and other infirmities  does affect those who are advancing in age. It's a fact of life but that doesn't mean that one has to be grumpy or hostile to the World. I have found people who are grumpy and hostile in every age group but they are in the minority.

I believe  much of the adverse behavior we see amongst expats-of every age- has to  do with their inability to adjust to life in Thailand. Thailand is not for everyone. One must develop or have much patience to live in this country because things just do not move like they do in the West. In addition, as most of us know, the Thai way of life is completely different than the Western way of thinking and doing things.

Some great advice was given by Nancy L and others on this board about getting involved in different activities; keeping busy and ones mind active; and generally live and let live. There are few things in life to really get mad about and even fewer which one can change even if mad.

For those that need assistance- there are English speaking (and other languages) counsellors available in Bangkok and Pattaya and maybe also in Chiang Mai. They are staffed by licensed western and Thai counsellors who have a wealth of experience dealing with individuals who are have psychological and social problems. They can't dispense medication but have contacts with medical doctors who can.

ONe thing that I have noticed amongst people of all ages living in the 21st Century is a lack of compassion and understanding of the trials and tribulations of our fellow human beings.  Let's try to put ourselves in our neighbor's place and attempt some simple  compassion and if you can help- do so.

 

[AlQaholic]

I'm grumpy and bitter and I'm not even old......

[ClutchClark]

2 minutes ago, Michael8511 said:

Yes you have many old angry farts here. The section I sat in at the beach had 10-12 oldies 8 years back, now it's 1 oldie and some new. every time I come back they decrease I asked 1 massage guy I know if they had died and he laughed and said no they fighting so they moved. When I looked closer into it they were all bitter angry and had so different opinions that they had to move away one after one. I still see them but at different sections and they are still bitching about nothing. Same at the bars, luckily there is still bars enough so they can sit and complain at separate places.

must be the water or air here in Pattaya that make older men kranky and bitter. It's a shame they were once friends and I think when you live here far from family you need a good friend. But they fight about nothing. Same in the condo building I live there is a couple and the lady complain to all tenants about everything from keeping the door open to cooking. She have nothing else to do. The other day we had breakfast on the balcony 6:30 in morning as every day and the door was open for draft. She stormed in and started to complain it was shoes in the hallway, but the shoes belonged to next condo. They love to be bitter and miserable.

 

Its often true that life is what we make of it.

 

The choice to wake up happy to hear the birds sing and watch one more sunrise is wavailable to many of us. 

 

Others have illnesses and poor health or often they suffered some trauma or loss of their loved one and the world is not so easy to see in that positive light. 

 

Before passing judgement on others, its a useful practice to remember not everyone is as lucky as we are.