Just returned from a visa-run (flight). Almost got stopped at thai immigration

[ricku]

So I just returned from a 2 day trip (visa-run) to Singapore, and I almost got stopped at the airport immigration counter, here in Bangkok!

I queued up for the immigration counter like usual, but when it was my turn, the immigration officer called for her 'supervisor'. The supervisor came and brought me their office, and then they started to ask me a lot of odd questions. I answered everything truthfully, and after 20 minutes they let me go.

First they wanted to know why I haven't returned to Sweden in 7 months. I explained to them that I am a shareholder of my family company in Sweden, and that I don't have to be in Sweden physically, to run my part of the business. I also ensured them that I am not working in Thailand illegally. I also explained that I have a girlfriend here (serious relationship), and that we live together in my condo. I told them that she is my main reason for living here.

I did not lie about anything, I have nothing to hide, and thankfully they believed me. But then then they told me that I can no longer 'fly out and fly in' like I've been doing until now, because I have hit some kind of "visa-run limit".. It seems that the immigration officer who spoke with me, wanted me to "return to Sweden for a while" (?), next time my tourist visa runs out, because my continuous visa-runs causes some "problems in their system".

What on earth is this? Do I really have to return to Sweden and sit there for a while before I return to Thailand next time? I'm feeling a bit shocked and confused right now. Has anyone else experienced something like this when returning from a visa run?

Edited September 5, 2016 by ricku

[elviajero]

The problem is probably because you have been overusing Visa Exempt Entries (not a visa). Immigration get alerted to anyone with 6+ Visa Exempt Entries and can take the person to one side for questioning. If you get a Single Entry Tourist Visa (SETV) from a local Embassy/Consulate you should be ok when you next enter.

 

You are not the first, and it's part of the crackdown stopping people living here without an appropriate visa/permit.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2016 by elviajero

[BritTim]

I expect @elvajero is correct, but would appreciate it if you could confirm this. I am expecting a crackdown on those entering on tourist visas at some point, and your experience (if not using visa exempt entries) could be a start of this. Also, did this occur at Don Muang or at Suwannabhumi?

[MJP]

You could always marry her. The immigration officer I mean.

[ricku]

Thanks for the replies guys!

Well, it makes sense. I fully understand if they are doing this to prevent criminals and illegal workers from living here. I actually admire Thailand for protecting their borders (unlike Sweden and the rest of Europe. lol).

I just wish that they could make exceptions for honest and law abiding people like me.. But of course, there is no easy way for them to know who's good and who's not.  .. This time they took my words for it. But I guess my luck will run out sooner or later..

Tim: This happened at Don Muang.

Edited September 5, 2016 by ricku

[steve187]

looks like you will have to find a long term visa/extension that will be suitable for you.

[Cletus]

2 hours ago, ricku said:

Thanks for the replies guys!

Well, it makes sense. I fully understand if they are doing this to prevent criminals and illegal workers from living here. I actually admire Thailand for protecting their borders (unlike Sweden and the rest of Europe. lol).

I just wish that they could make exceptions for honest and law abiding people like me.. But of course, there is no easy way for them to know who's good and who's not.  .. This time they took my words for it. But I guess my luck will run out sooner or later..

Tim: This happened at Don Muang.

 

Thank you for your input.

 

It's not clear if you had a visa or just a visa exempt entry (30 days)?

[muzmurray]

4 hours ago, ricku said:

I explained to them that I am a shareholder of my family company in Sweden, and that I don't have to be in Sweden physically, to run my part of the business.

 

3 hours ago, ricku said:

I just wish that they could make exceptions for honest and law abiding people like me.

 

It would seem from what you have written that you are running your part of the business from Thailand as opposed to Sweden, be that by internet or whatever. Therefore you are possibly not the honest law abiding citizen you think, as you are, (according to what you wrote), working illegally in Thailand i.e. no work permit.

 

The location of the company is immaterial, it is where you are that is important.

 

[IMA_FARANG]

The arrival computers alerted on you because you have been using to msny visa free entries.

That is why they pulled you aside and inyerviewed you.

They want to know how you are supportonh yourself in Thailand.

Technically you need a work permit to work even "on-line" while staying in Thailand.

Operating a businesss online from a Thai address is technically "working" in Thailand, even though in the past they have not enforced this rule strictly..

The fist thing you need to do is establish a legitamate reason for staying in Thailand.

When you are in Thailand any online activity pertaining to your business is interpreted as "workking in Thailand" and therefore requires a work permit.

I  find it ironic that you think that "immigrants" should be kept out of Europe, and don't realise that here in Thailand, you are the "immigrant" to the Thais.

The Thai work laws are out of date with the modern practice of working online, but they are still the rules in Thailand.

Also they may be cracking down on those who work online from Thailand on a "tourist visa".

It could help you to how some official source of your money from a soutce outside of Thailand or at least opening a Thai bank account in your name.

But ideally, you need to consider marrying your Thai girlfrendi in Thailand or establishing a busuness in Thailand.

Thailand is not the EU and you are the "outsider" here trying to get in to their country.

Not being rude, but you need to see the situation from their point of view.

 

 

[ricku]

1 hour ago, muzmurray said:

 

 

It would seem from what you have written that you are running your part of the business from Thailand as opposed to Sweden, be that by internet or whatever. Therefore you are possibly not the honest law abiding citizen you think, as you are, (according to what you wrote), working illegally in Thailand i.e. no work permit.

 

The location of the company is immaterial, it is where you are that is important.

 

Err, I'm not working online. As I said, I'm a shareholder in a company, registered in Sweden. All I'm doing is having short telephone meetings and giving orders over e-mail, phone and SMS.

And even if I did work online, how on earth can that be illegal, if I'm working for my own company abroad??

If what you are saying is true, then living in Thailand means cutting all connections with your company / work at home?? That sounds ridiculous for so many reasons.

Edit: Like I said, I even told the immigration about my company in Sweden. Yet, here I am drinking morning coffee on my balcony.

Edited September 6, 2016 by ricku

[muzmurray]

7 minutes ago, ricku said:

Err, I'm not working online. As I said, I'm a shareholder in a company, registered in Sweden. All I'm doing is having short meetings and giving orders over the phone line. = work

And even if I did work online, how on earth can that be illegal, if I'm working for my own company abroad?? It is illegal because Thai law determines it to be.

If what you are saying is true, then living in Thailand means cutting all connections with your company / work at home?? That sounds ridiculous. But in strict adherence to the law, true

 

[ricku]

3 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

 

Check my edited post.

Edit: Like I said, I even told the immigration about my company in Sweden. Three officers in their office, and they fully understood me. Yet, here I am drinking morning coffee on my balcony.

Edited September 6, 2016 by ricku

[muzmurray]

1 minute ago, ricku said:

Check my edited post.

Edit: Like I said, I even told the immigration about my company in Sweden. Yet, here I am drinking morning coffee on my balcony.

 

Only until you have to do your next border hop.  :-)

[moe666]

get that500 thousand baht 5 year get out of jail card

[MissAndry]

Yep, I agree, you have admitted to living and working illegally in Thailand.

You need to get a proper VISA if you're trying to live here, VISA exempt is for short time tourists.

Admitting to having a condo and a Thai gf here was a bad move, they will certainly have you marked now.

 

I spend 2 months here, 1 month in another country, they haven't picked a problem with that so far.

[KittenKong]

5 hours ago, ricku said:

I just wish that they could make exceptions for honest and law abiding people like me.

 

If you can afford to live here permanently "without working" then you can probably also afford to buy an Elite visa. This would solve your problem completely and you could even stop doing visa runs.

 

See the various topics about this.

[gk10002000]

1 hour ago, ricku said:

Err, I'm not working online. As I said, I'm a shareholder in a company, registered in Sweden. All I'm doing is having short telephone meetings and giving orders over e-mail, phone and SMS.

And even if I did work online, how on earth can that be illegal, if I'm working for my own company abroad??

If what you are saying is true, then living in Thailand means cutting all connections with your company / work at home?? That sounds ridiculous for so many reasons.

Edit: Like I said, I even told the immigration about my company in Sweden. Yet, here I am drinking morning coffee on my balcony.

Unfortunately in this age of so called digital Nomads, which you probably aren't, but you are crossing over the line into what some Thai officials are aware of and discussing.  Of course many tourists have businesses back home and some reasonable contact is expected.  The issue is the length of time spent in Thailand and the number of times visiting Thailand.  The Thai visas don't really handle that well and they are very focused on separating a tourist, which to them is somebody on the shorter timelines.  I know it sounds a bit off, and you would think as long as one is spending money in the country and causing no trouble there should be no issues.  But "living" in Thailand i.e. 7 months is getting harder and harder to be classified as a tourist.  Them's the rule or "policy" now. 

[overherebc]

2 hours ago, IMA_FARANG said:

The arrival computers alerted on you because you have been using to msny visa free entries.

That is why they pulled you aside and inyerviewed you.

They want to know how you are supportonh yourself in Thailand.

Technically you need a work permit to work even "on-line" while staying in Thailand.

Operating a businesss online from a Thai address is technically "working" in Thailand, even though in the past they have not enforced this rule strictly..

The fist thing you need to do is establish a legitamate reason for staying in Thailand.

When you are in Thailand any online activity pertaining to your business is interpreted as "workking in Thailand" and therefore requires a work permit.

I  find it ironic that you think that "immigrants" should be kept out of Europe, and don't realise that here in Thailand, you are the "immigrant" to the Thais.

The Thai work laws are out of date with the modern practice of working online, but they are still the rules in Thailand.

Also they may be cracking down on those who work online from Thailand on a "tourist visa".

It could help you to how some official source of your money from a soutce outside of Thailand or at least opening a Thai bank account in your name.

But ideally, you need to consider marrying your Thai girlfrendi in Thailand or establishing a busuness in Thailand.

Thailand is not the EU and you are the "outsider" here trying to get in to their country.

Not being rude, but you need to see the situation from their point of view.

 

 

 

Agreed he is the immigrant here, but, can you make a table of the weekly/monthly allowances he is claiming from Thailand while he is here. Is he entitled to bring his wife and children here at the expense of Thailand  and make use of the free medical services for all?

[phuketrichard]

2 hours ago, ricku said:

Err, I'm not working online. As I said, I'm a shareholder in a company, registered in Sweden. All I'm doing is having short telephone meetings and giving orders over e-mail, phone and SMS.

And even if I did work online, how on earth can that be illegal, if I'm working for my own company abroad??

If what you are saying is true, then living in Thailand means cutting all connections with your company / work at home?? That sounds ridiculous for so many reasons.

Edit: Like I said, I even told the immigration about my company in Sweden. Yet, here I am drinking morning coffee on my balcony.

u can color it any way you want, BUT if ur in Thailand doing anything to do with ur business anywhere, your working in Thailand without a wp and ur doing something illegal.
IF what you say is true. go back to  Sweden and apply for a METV  ( should be easy (that will give you almost 9 months here in Thailand

[ricku]

15 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

u can color it any way you want, BUT if ur in Thailand doing anything to do with ur business anywhere, your working in Thailand without a wp and ur doing something illegal.
IF what you say is true. go back to  Sweden and apply for a METV  ( should be easy (that will give you almost 9 months here in Thailand

I'm not trying to color it, and I believe what you say. I've even looked it up now, and I know it's true.. But I just find it so over the top "amazing"!

Because it really means that everyone who is having work related contact with their company at home, is a "criminal". lol.

But yes, the real issue here is my visa-runs. So I guess I'll have to do that METV next time.

Thanks btw.

Edited September 6, 2016 by ricku

[gk10002000]

2 hours ago, ricku said:

I'm not trying to color it, and I believe what you say. I've even looked it up now, and I know it's true.. But I just find it so over the top "amazing"!

Because it really means that everyone who is having work related contact with their company at home, is a "criminal". lol.

But yes, the real issue here is my visa-runs. So I guess I'll have to do that METV next time.

Thanks btw.

If you really do envision visiting for many years and entering and leaving often, you might want to look at the Thai Elite Visa.  One is 500K for 5 years, and newly released one is 800k for 10 years.  For simplicity and convenience and for several months in country and peace of mind, it might work for you.  The 90 day reporting requirements exist, but if you plan your stays to be less than 90 days each, I guess you would not have to do the 90 day reports?

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, IMA_FARANG said:

...I  find it ironic that you think that "immigrants" should be kept out of Europe, and don't realise that here in Thailand, you are the "immigrant" to the Thais.

 

 

Do the immigrants to Sweden inject foreign-sourced capital to the Swedish economy and contribute to creating more jobs for Swedish people - or the exact opposite?  Big difference, there.  Thailand is absolutely correct to remove any foreigner whose presence creates a net-loss to the Thai economy and, therefore, does not benefit the Thai people.

 

OP - use Tourist Visas from here on - No More Visa Exempt Entries.  At some point in the future, there may be an issue using serial Tourist Visas to stay here, but for now, only a few checkpoints (Aranyaprathet / Poipet, for example) will cause any fuss about it. 

 

Just be prepared for the possibility of a future change in Thailand's Tourist Visa policy, and keep an eye out on this site for any sign of trouble.  Should such a change happen in the future, you may wish to obtain an Ed-visa (~35K Baht / yr total cost), which will buy some time until you can plan your next move.

Edited September 6, 2016 by JackThompson

[ricku]

Thanks for the tips man, much appreciated. I will look into these alternatives!

And yes, I could not help but laugh at 'Ima_Farang's' comparison between me and the invaders coming to Europe. Pure comedy right there.

[IMA_FARANG]

Funny, 400 years ago, my ancestors were "immigrants" having been kicked out of England (my mother's side) and France (my father's side) because they had the 'wrong" religion

That's what we Americans were then " mongrols" not wanted in any of the 'civilized" countries of Europe.

as a historian i know verry well what the U.S. owes to it's minorities and immigrants

As a university trained historian I feel ashamed tht so many of my fellow country men and women have forgottten that fact npw.

But enough of the lecture....you can have your own opinions, just let me have mine.

I spent 5 years in the U.S Army, much of it in Vietnam defending my rights and opinions, anyhow.

Again not being rude, just speakinhg my mind.

 

[JackThompson]

58 minutes ago, IMA_FARANG said:

Funny, 400 years ago, my ancestors were "immigrants" having been kicked out of England (my mother's side) and France (my father's side) because they had the 'wrong" religion

That's what we Americans were then " mongrols" not wanted in any of the 'civilized" countries of Europe.

...

 

I would enjoy a friendly debate on the topic of USA-policies in another forum.  But in the general context ... Immigration policies. instituted by the government of any nation that serves the interests of its people, should reflect the answer to only one question: "Does the policy improve the well-being of current citizens - right now - taking into consideration both economics and crime (safety / national-security)?" 

 

Enforcing this policy is one of the primary functions of any national government - whether Thailand, Sweden, or the USA.  Based on the OP's description, he is a net-positive for Thailand's economy and not a security-risk.

[chrisinth]

8 hours ago, muzmurray said:

 

 

That is like saying every-time i travel inside Thailand, out of province, even though i am here on a work permit i would be technically breaking the law by sending emails or having telephone conversations because i am not at my designated place of work according to the WP. God forbid that i would use dropbox or my shared one-drive........................

 

I'm not having a dig here, just trying to relate the futility of following the letters of the law in real time terms.

[seancbk]

10 hours ago, muzmurray said:

 

 

It would seem from what you have written that you are running your part of the business from Thailand as opposed to Sweden, be that by internet or whatever. Therefore you are possibly not the honest law abiding citizen you think, as you are, (according to what you wrote), working illegally in Thailand i.e. no work permit.

 

The location of the company is immaterial, it is where you are that is important.

 

Working on your business that is entirely outside of Thailand is not considered working.

Otherwise practically every tourist who comes here and sits down to deal with a work issue back home via email would be breaking the law, and if you think that is the case then you are pretty daft.

Working in Thailand means doing work for remuneration in Thailand.   So long as you are not taking a job that could have gone to a Thai or a Thai company you are ok.

[silent]

9 hours ago, ricku said:

Err, I'm not working online. As I said, I'm a shareholder in a company, registered in Sweden. All I'm doing is having short telephone meetings and giving orders over e-mail, phone and SMS.

And even if I did work online, how on earth can that be illegal, if I'm working for my own company abroad??

If what you are saying is true, then living in Thailand means cutting all connections with your company / work at home?? That sounds ridiculous for so many reasons.

Edit: Like I said, I even told the immigration about my company in Sweden. Yet, here I am drinking morning coffee on my balcony.

work

wərk/

noun

 

1. 1.

   activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.

   "he was tired after a day's work in the fields"

   synonyms:

   labor, toil, slog, drudgery, exertion, effort, industry, service; More

   •  
2. 2.

   mental or physical activity as a means of earning income; employment.

   "I'm still looking for work"

   synonyms:

   employment, a job, a position, a situation, a post

Edited September 6, 2016 by silent

[phuketrichard]

"..... I spent 5 years in the U.S Army, much of it in Vietnam defending my rights and opinions, anyhow. .."

 I thought we were protecting the world from communism there??  LOL

[bangkapi]

9 hours ago, moe666 said:

get that500 thousand baht 5 year get out of jail card

 

These days, you can get 10 years for the 500K.

Look into that.