Just returned from a visa-run (flight). Almost got stopped at thai immigration

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, bangkapi said:

 

These days, you can get 10 years for the 500K.

Look into that.

For 10 years it is 800k baht. It is still 500k baht for 5 years.

[thaitero]

OP talked too much but he was lucky to have IO who he had.

If you own condo and you are wealthy, just tell that and that you do not need to work any more. 

When crossing the border keep some paperwork ( copy of chanote, offshore and thai bank statements etc) with you so you can proove your wealth if necessary..

 

[Monkeyrobot]

11 hours ago, muzmurray said:

 

 

It would seem from what you have written that you are running your part of the business from Thailand as opposed to Sweden, be that by internet or whatever. Therefore you are possibly not the honest law abiding citizen you think, as you are, (according to what you wrote), working illegally in Thailand i.e. no work permit.

 

The location of the company is immaterial, it is where you are that is important.

 

I think running your business from abroad is no problem, if the compan is registered in Sweden and profits are payed in the currency of  that country. you could run it from anywhere in the world .

[Merylhighground]

Unfortunately for the handful of 'expats' with seemingly perfectly 'legitimate' reasons for being in the country, the climate of attitudes towards foreigners is now such that the hoops are going to get higher and much, much harder for 'normal' folks to jump through, especially with elections/more political turmoil in the offing...whoever can puff their chest out the furthest claiming 'Thailand for the Thais' etc will have the biggest advantage.

I'm glad/lucky that when I have to do the visa/WP stuff, my employers are pretty clued up and efficient at providing all the relevant paperwork as and when needed. Even after a twenty year working history in Thailand I do wonder how much longer it will be before my luck runs out.....so much for all this 'good guys in'  nonsense........

Perhaps you could get your company to provide you with the necessary documentation to show Immigration you are in the country for legitimate reasons or to get you the relevant visa and if needed, a Work Permit. Even maybe to the extreme extent of opening up a Bangkok office with you as manager??? 

Good luck but expect things to get a lot worse before they get easier.....

Edited September 6, 2016 by Merylhighground

[performance]

Get a proper VISA and learn about the system 

[elviajero]

7 hours ago, ricku said:

I'm not trying to color it, and I believe what you say. I've even looked it up now, and I know it's true.. But I just find it so over the top "amazing"!

Because it really means that everyone who is having work related contact with their company at home, is a "criminal". lol.

But yes, the real issue here is my visa-runs. So I guess I'll have to do that METV next time.

Thanks btw.

You need to understand that the Immigration Act was written 37 years ago and at that time very few people, like yourself, had the ability to work remotely. There is currently no provision for such people so, as it stands, carrying out your occupation on Thai soil without permission is illegal.

 

However, give Immigration some credit because they don't actively come after or prosecute people like you. Thailand, like many other countries, accept that people visiting Thailand need/want to keep up with their business/job back home and are quite happy for 'tourists' to do that.

 

Due to the loophole in the Immigration system people have been able to live here long term as 'tourists' and the growing numbers of people using this loophole is part of the reason why Immigration is tightening up. 

[captainhornblower]

54 minutes ago, seancbk said:

Working on your business that is entirely outside of Thailand is not considered working.

Otherwise practically every tourist who comes here and sits down to deal with a work issue back home via email would be breaking the law, and if you think that is the case then you are pretty daft.

Working in Thailand means doing work for remuneration in Thailand.   So long as you are not taking a job that could have gone to a Thai or a Thai company you are ok.

 

Your post is actually factually incorrect.

 

The Thai authorities even require foreigners 'working' for free in a charitable capacity as requiring a work permit.

 

This became an issue in late 2004 and early 2005 when there were many foreigners in Thailand helping to clean up the disaster after the Tsunami hit the south west coast of the country. They were demanding that all aid agency workers get work permits - it became a major issue but it did very much clarify exactly where the Thai authorities stand on this issue.

[Evilbaz]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

I would enjoy a friendly debate on the topic of USA-policies in another forum.  But in the general context ... Immigration policies. instituted by the government of any nation that serves the interests of its people, should reflect the answer to only one question: "Does the policy improve the well-being of current citizens - right now - taking into consideration both economics and crime (safety / national-security)?" 

 

Enforcing this policy is one of the primary functions of any national government - whether Thailand, Sweden, or the USA.  Based on the OP's description, he is a net-positive for Thailand's economy and not a security-risk.

 

Agreed. But he should be ready and able to prove his status as per your last sentence and that he is here on the basis of what his permission to stay is based upon.

This is commonly required everywhere these days

Edited September 6, 2016 by Evilbaz

[elviajero]

29 minutes ago, thaitero said:

OP talked too much but he was lucky to have IO who he had.

If you own condo and you are wealthy, just tell that and that you do not need to work any more. 

When crossing the border keep some paperwork ( copy of chanote, offshore and thai bank statements etc) with you so you can proove your wealth if necessary..

The OP needs to convince the IO that he is a tourist so showing ownership of a Condo wouldn't really help his case. And the only funds that really count is the 20K cash requirement. Even wealthy people that don't need to work anymore aren't supposed to live in Thailand long term as a 'tourist' unless they pay for the privilege (PE Visa).

 

This is the guidance issued to IO's,

 

Quote

 

Subject: Guideline for inspection of citizen from certain countries that are not required to obtain a visa when entering the Kingdom of Thailand 

2. Reason to believe that entry into Kingdom is not for the purpose of tourism
2.1 Alien will be interviewed and requested to show evidence of the purpose of tourism

such as tickets, pocket money, booking slip, traveling plan.

 

 

[Bangkok Barry]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

 

Thailand is absolutely correct to remove any foreigner whose presence creates a net-loss to the Thai economy and, therefore, does not benefit the Thai people.

 

 

How does he create a net-loss to the Thai economy. All he is doing is CONTRIBUTING to it by spending and possibly supporting his girlfriend. I'd have thought that he was exactly the kind of person Thailand wants here, someone of independent means who is taking nothing from the locals. His 'work' doesn't take work from any Thai. He supports local businesses. including perhaps his landlord.

The problem is that Thailand has no way of separating the good and the bad. And even if he applied for a visa of some kind and satisfied all the rules, it is still possible for some jumped-up official to refuse it because he had a bad journey to work.

[thaitero]

47 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The OP needs to convince the IO that he is a tourist so showing ownership of a Condo wouldn't really help his case. And the only funds that really count is the 20K cash requirement. Even wealthy people that don't need to work anymore aren't supposed to live in Thailand long term as a 'tourist' unless they pay for the privilege (PE Visa).

 

This is the guidance issued to IO's,

 

 

Many wealthy people own holiday homes and that is what you should tell your condo is..

Owning you own holidayplace tells also you are not most likely short on money. And people who are short on money need to work without permits or do crimes to live. That is kind of people Thailand do not want..

Edited September 6, 2016 by thaitero

[JackThompson]

28 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

How does he create a net-loss to the Thai economy. All he is doing is CONTRIBUTING to it by spending and possibly supporting his girlfriend. I'd have thought that he was exactly the kind of person Thailand wants here, someone of independent means who is taking nothing from the locals. His 'work' doesn't take work from any Thai. He supports local businesses. including perhaps his landlord.

The problem is that Thailand has no way of separating the good and the bad. And even if he applied for a visa of some kind and satisfied all the rules, it is still possible for some jumped-up official to refuse it because he had a bad journey to work.

 

He doesn't create a loss - I agree entirely.  That was my point.

 

Agree generally with the last paragraph, but I blame the lack of specificity on what is permitted (regarding visa-exempts, specifically) for the over-reactions of the IOs.  Being human, their "in the moment" reaction could certainly be affected by some external matter, including a rude person in front of you in line. 

 

When the rules are clear, versus subjective (as they are now), the 'human factor' is less of an issue, and everyone knows what to expect.  Unfortunately, there are not published rules regarding how many visa-exempts are permitted per-year, how long "out of country" between them, etc.

 

 

[Evilbaz]

One Rule is clear - and it is universal to every country.

 

 Entry to the Country depends upon the Border Immigration Officer you face being satisfied about your " bona fides"

[ThailandLOS]

12 hours ago, ricku said:

I'm not trying to color it, and I believe what you say. I've even looked it up now, and I know it's true.. But I just find it so over the top "amazing"!

Because it really means that everyone who is having work related contact with their company at home, is a "criminal". lol.

But yes, the real issue here is my visa-runs. So I guess I'll have to do that METV next time.

Thanks btw.

 

With your 200+ posts on TV, you must be aware of the frequent sour grapes in here that will charge you with murder for even picking up your phone if it's a work call.

 

These are the people that spend their days caught up in other ppl's lives, as they have none themselves.

[BritTim]

15 hours ago, MissAndry said:

Yep, I agree, you have admitted to living and working illegally in Thailand.

You need to get a proper VISA if you're trying to live here, VISA exempt is for short time tourists.

Admitting to having a condo and a Thai gf here was a bad move, they will certainly have you marked now.

 

I spend 2 months here, 1 month in another country, they haven't picked a problem with that so far.

 

Actually, the Thai girlfriend establishes a good reason for repeated visits and admitting this is not a mistake. Indicating that one runs a business online from Thailand is unwise. Digital nomads are generally tolerated, and (admittedly) it is pretty ridiculous to say it is illegal without a work permit when there is no practical way of getting one. However, the letter of the law says that no work of any kind paid or unpaid can be done here without a work permit. Strictly speaking, an immigration official who has a well founded belief that you are doing so is supposed to deny entry on a tourist visa or visa exempt entry.

[returnofthailand]

they want their visa money. just go to Vientiane and pay your tourist visa. that' s all.

[DogNo1]

You can tapdance around the subject forever but the fact is that the Thai Authorities' objective is to require anyone who stays here long-term to have the appropriate long-term visa and they are working toward enforcing that. I anticipate that exceptions to that will be increasingly curtailed.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, DogNo1 said:

You can tapdance around the subject forever but the fact is that the Thai Authorities' objective is to require anyone who stays here long-term to have the appropriate long-term visa and they are working toward enforcing that. I anticipate that exceptions to that will be increasingly curtailed.

 

While there is no absolute proof of that, and those who predict a loosening at some point could still be right, I agree this is likely. The reasons are not rational. As in most countries that restrict immigration, other reasons are advanced, but it is mainly xenophobia.

[chickenrunCM]

13 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

Do the immigrants to Sweden inject foreign-sourced capital to the Swedish economy and contribute to creating more jobs for Swedish people - or the exact opposite?  Big difference, there.  Thailand is absolutely correct to remove any foreigner whose presence creates a net-loss to the Thai economy and, therefore, does not benefit the Thai people.

 

OP - use Tourist Visas from here on - No More Visa Exempt Entries.  At some point in the future, there may be an issue using serial Tourist Visas to stay here, but for now, only a few checkpoints (Aranyaprathet / Poipet, for example) will cause any fuss about it. 

 

Just be prepared for the possibility of a future change in Thailand's Tourist Visa policy, and keep an eye out on this site for any sign of trouble.  Should such a change happen in the future, you may wish to obtain an Ed-visa (~35K Baht / yr total cost), which will buy some time until you can plan your next move.

what foreigner create a net loss to thai economy? every foreigner creates a net win to the economy. 

if you don´t understand economic, than you should write b***shit here, 

and there is no work permit for working oversea online, how Thailand can somebody allow to work in another country, for foreign company´s? if such a work permit would exist, they would have to give the work permit holders access to the Thai market also, o social insurance aso. 

you not breaking any law in Thailand if you working online by yourself without any other company person in Thailand involved

 

 

[thaitero]

7 hours ago, chickenrunCM said:

what foreigner create a net loss to thai economy?

 

 

Criminals and those who end up to hospital without money/insurance.

[JackThompson]

7 hours ago, chickenrunCM said:

what foreigner create a net loss to thai economy? every foreigner creates a net win to the economy. 

if you don´t understand economic, than you should write b***shit here, 

and there is no work permit for working oversea online, how Thailand can somebody allow to work in another country, for foreign company´s? if such a work permit would exist, they would have to give the work permit holders access to the Thai market also, o social insurance aso. 

you not breaking any law in Thailand if you working online by yourself without any other company person in Thailand involved

 

 

 

35 minutes ago, thaitero said:

Criminals and those who end up to hospital without money/insurance.

 

And those who take Thai jobs without work-permits.  There is a reason even volunteer work must have a work-permit - "free" or "surplus" labor drives down wages. 

 

What Thai person will bother to get a degree to teach English here, when a million Filipinos and thousands of bored Westerners will do it on the cheap?

 

The laws regarding "what is work" do not agree with you, but they are not enforcing the law on those working online at present - likely for the very reason that in brings money in, and doesn't affect job-availability for Thais.

 

 

[OMGImInPattaya]

18 hours ago, seancbk said:

Working on your business that is entirely outside of Thailand is not considered working.

Otherwise practically every tourist who comes here and sits down to deal with a work issue back home via email would be breaking the law, and if you think that is the case then you are pretty daft.

Working in Thailand means doing work for remuneration in Thailand.   So long as you are not taking a job that could have gone to a Thai or a Thai company you are ok.

Your interpretation of Thai law is not correct Grasshopper. Expending mental energy whether for a Thai company or a foreign one, while in Thailand, is considered "working" under Thai law. 

[Don Mega]

18 hours ago, seancbk said:

Working on your business that is entirely outside of Thailand is not considered working.

Otherwise practically every tourist who comes here and sits down to deal with a work issue back home via email would be breaking the law, and if you think that is the case then you are pretty daft.

Working in Thailand means doing work for remuneration in Thailand.   So long as you are not taking a job that could have gone to a Thai or a Thai company you are ok.

 

What about those that volunteer in Thailand are they not classed as working because they are not getting paid ?

[Oishii]

Simple answer:. It's their country, you play by their rules.  Break or even bend the rules and you ask for trouble.

 

edit.

volunteres do need a work permit.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Oishii
Extra info

[darrendsd]

23 hours ago, performance said:

Get a proper VISA and learn about the system 

  

A Tourist Visa IS a proper visa

[seancbk]

6 hours ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

Your interpretation of Thai law is not correct Grasshopper. Expending mental energy whether for a Thai company or a foreign one, while in Thailand, is considered "working" under Thai law. 

 

 

Then almost every person on holiday here would be breaking the law at some point, because very few people would spend time here without having to respond to work emails and/or calls.  

That's the great thing about modern web based businesses.   You can go on holiday and you can still look after work while you are away.

[thaitero]

Our interpretation of Thai law is irrelevant. Only thing what matters is how the officer dealing your case interprets this outdated but still valid law.

Edited September 7, 2016 by thaitero

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, seancbk said:

Then almost every person on holiday here would be breaking the law at some point, because very few people would spend time here without having to respond to work emails and/or calls.  

That's the great thing about modern web based businesses.   You can go on holiday and you can still look after work while you are away.

 

You are correct. A high proportion of tourists are in technical breach of the law as written. Since (contrary to some members' impression) Thai officials are capable of exercising common sense the law is not enforced. For what it is worth (if you have not noticed) there are quite a few laws in Thailand that are not enforced.

Edited September 7, 2016 by BritTim

[DogNo1]

It's the length of time that one is "on holiday" that is pertinent here.  Stringing together a number of visa-exempt entries and/or tourist visas at some point crosses the line bewteen being here on holiday and being here long-term.  Immigration has so far been rather flexible but they may come out with more definitive time limits in the future.  As Ubonjoe pointed out earlier in the thread, those who don't qualify in any other way can buy a five-year visa for 500,000 THB.

[JackThompson]

7 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

It's the length of time that one is "on holiday" that is pertinent here.  Stringing together a number of visa-exempt entries and/or tourist visas at some point crosses the line bewteen being here on holiday and being here long-term.  Immigration has so far been rather flexible but they may come out with more definitive time limits in the future.  As Ubonjoe pointed out earlier in the thread, those who don't qualify in any other way can buy a five-year visa for 500,000 THB.

 

Fortunately, that is not the only other option.  If and when such a limit is invented, the 99% unwilling to fork over that much of our retirement-savings at once for a visa - and/or who think a visa charge exceeding ~20% of our total living-expenses is excessive (living well, by our non-elite standards) - will move to Ed or Volunteer options.  If / when those options are not available, we will retire in one of the other countries, in the area, or around the world, with reasonable visa fees and options.