FLR (M) application: question queries... HELP!!

[Rob180]

Could someone please advise regarding these questions on the FLR (M) application?

 

Section 2 : Category

 

I have ticked the first box  - "Spouse of a person present and settled in the UK and a biometric immigration document."

 

However, I do not understand the YES/NO question at 2.2:  "Is this the first time you have applied for a visa or extension of stay in one of the above categories (including previous leave granted as a fiancé(e) or proposed civil partner) with your current sponsor?" 

 

Does it mean ANY visa ie an Entry Visa, meaning if you've currently got an Entry Visa for 2.5 years already you would answer  NO to this question? Or does it mean you should answer YES as the biometric document was not required for the Entry Visa?

 

In short, if you came to UK on an Entry  Visa (Spouse) and are now applying for FLR..... is the answer to 2.2 YES or NO ??

 

Section 4 - Dependent Children

"In this section you must include any dependants that are applying with you. (see the payment section for details on who may apply with you) It is mandatory to complete this section as required. Please note this application will be invalid if you do not."

 

As no children or any other person other than the applicant is applying I took the above to mean I can leave this whole section BLANK. However sections 4.1-4.4 seem to be asking for children's names and details even if they're not applying as it says provide details of children who are applying with you FIRST? Do I need to complete these questions asking about applicant and sponsor's children even if they're NOT applying?

 

 

Thanks for any help. I did try to find the actual immigration rules but could only find the guidance notes which are useless and don't answer the above 2 questions.

 

Edited September 8, 2016 by Rob180

[rasg]

In short, if you came to UK on an Entry  Visa (Spouse) and are now applying for FLR..... is the answer to 2.2 YES or NO ??

 

 

The end of the question is this.

2.2 Is this the first time you have applied for a visa or extension of stay in one of the above
categories (including previous leave granted as a fiancé(e) or proposed civil partner) with your
current sponsor?

 

If it's your first FLR that one looks like a yes to me. In our case we were just finishing a Fiancée visa. Your situation may be different but if your wife came here on a spouse visa it would be a yes.

 

You need to complete section 4 there are other questions in there such as this one.

4.6 Is your sponsor financially responsible for supporting anyone else, not listed in section 4.4?

 

This is what it says:

As well as children who are applying as your dependents you should also include details
of all dependent children including those who are British citizens or settled in the UK.

 

 

[Rob180]

Thanks RASG. I thought 2.2 was Yes but I wasn't sure if they were meaning first FLR because they use the phrase visa or extended leave. If the question was.......is this the first time you have applied FOR a visa FOR extended leave it would be far clearer. Why is this application so vague, seriously? I cannot understand why it is the way it is.

 

As for Section 4....what do they mean by dependants, do they mean under 18s? My children are over 21 and don't live with me, do they want details of them and their passport numbers etc or is it only under 18s?

[rasg]

Presumably your over 18s like many nowadays are far more dependent on you than should be?

 

Only under 18s according to the notes.

 

I presume this next question means ex wives or an aging mother.

 

4.6 Is your sponsor financially responsible for supporting anyone else, not listed in section 4.4?

[Rob180]

 you're right about the over 18s.........thankfully I can answer NO to 4.6. I'm now going to complete and check the application, but due to the size of it,  the checking is going to have to be done several times. I can't wait to get rid of it. After months of gathering documents and paperwork and reading immigration rules that contradict themselves (if you can find them), I am genuinely sick of it ! If it wasn't for this forum I think I'd have jumped from the nearest bridge weeks ago!

Edited September 9, 2016 by Rob180

[GarryUK]

We're just a few months off doing FLR ourselves, so would appreciate a running commentary Rob on everything you have to do, and how it's going for you. Can you expand on the "months of gathering documents and paperwork" please.

 

When the wife first came to the UK she had to pass "Grade 2 Graded Examination in Spoken English" at level A1. Although technically expired, I know you were always able to use it again for the FLR, only needing to show improvement when applying for ILR. However, the wife has now been told (and so believes) it's not good enough any more, she needs to pass A2 level. Do you know anything about this? She was easily A2 level when she took it the first time, but as A1 was all she needed that's all they gave her, with Distinction. Won't be happy if I've got to pay again.

 

And what about the NHS Surcharge? I understand for people applying for their first visa, but I think it's not very fair making people pay at FLR that didn't need to on first entry.

 

Good luck!

[Rob180]

RASG, Section 12 is asking for passports and ID cards for dependants. They don't have passports and I only have copies of their ID cards. Do I need to get their ID cards sent from Thailand!? It says they may accept alternative proof of identity/nationality like birth certificates. Do you think I could just send those?

 

Garry...all FLR applicants need to have A2 from October, so I'm afraid your wife will have to take another test it seems.

The healthcare surcharge of £500 has to be paid now by entry visa and FLR applicants whether they had to pay it at entry visa stage or not. Is it fair? I could rant about that but it won't change anything.

 

I'll be happy to post EVERYTHING I send with this application once I've completed it. The only words I can use to describe the whole process is mind-numbing.

[rasg]

We're just a few months off doing FLR ourselves, so would appreciate a running commentary Rob on everything you have to do, and how it's going for you. Can you expand on the "months of gathering documents and paperwork" please.

 

You need correspondence addressed to both of you at your address for things like Council Tax, bank, utilities etc and spread out over the 2 years or so. Better to download the FLR form asap to check what you need.

 

When the wife first came to the UK she had to pass "Grade 2 Graded Examination in Spoken English" at level A1. Although technically expired, I know you were always able to use it again for the FLR, only needing to show improvement when applying for ILR. However, the wife has now been told (and so believes) it's not good enough any more, she needs to pass A2 level. Do you know anything about this? She was easily A2 level when she took it the first time, but as A1 was all she needed that's all they gave her, with Distinction. Won't be happy if I've got to pay again.

 

It depends when you are applying. It changes in October. 18th I think. Your wife needed to take the A2 test to pass the A2 text. If you take A1, you get A1... My wife took A1 and as her FLR has been applied for before 18th October, she can use the A1 pass. It went in to the Home Office a couple of days ago.

 

And what about the NHS Surcharge? I understand for people applying for their first visa, but I think it's not very fair making people pay at FLR that didn't need to on first entry.

 

£200 per year. 2.5 years of FLR is £500. I don't think fairness comes into it where the Home Office is concerned. I would have been more than happy to use private healthcare but if you choose to do that you still have to pay the NHS surcharge. You also need to pay for it before you apply for the visa as it gives you an IHS number that you have to include on the FLR form.

[Rob180]

RASG, Section 12 is asking for passports and ID cards for dependants. They don't have passports and I only have copies of their ID cards. Do I need to get their ID cards sent from Thailand!? It says they may accept alternative proof of identity/nationality like birth certificates. Do you think I could just send those?

 

Although the Guidance Notes say:

provide an original, valid passport, travel document or national identity card for yourself and any dependants who are applying with you as specified in the application form, as evidence of your identity and nationality, unless it is not available for reasons beyond your control

 

Does this mean the children's ID cards are NOT REQUIRED? The statement above is clear they are not but it's not clear on the application form (not much is).

[rasg]

My wife's son isn’t coming to the UK but the HO website says we need his original birth certificate and an English translation.

 

On the FLR form it says this:

 

Children’s birth certificates
An original full birth certificate i.e. one which shows the parents’ names for each of your
children. This includes children applying for an extension of stay in the UK with you, as well
as children not applying with you and those not subject to immigration control

 

I read that to say you need a birth certificate whether the child is coming to the UK or not and that is what we supplied. It was a real pain. They do only ask for passport details on the form but there is a box to add any details or extra info further down.

[Rob180]

Yes, I had to get certified copies of birth certificates which are now translated, but I cannot understand Section 4 because it appears to want details of children even if they are not applying then in Section 12 it says you need their passports or ID cards? The guidance notes seem to imply the passport/ID card is only required for dependants who are part of the application, is that what you think it means?

[rasg]

As far as I can see nothing is mentioned about ID cards but you do need to give details and you can't supply passport details if they don't have them. There is a box at the bottom where you can explain this if you need to.

 

Where they ask for Passport or travel document number put none. He or she doesn’t have one.

 

It says this in section 13:

 

The current passport(s) or travel document(s) for each child under 18 included in section
4 and applying for an extension of stay in the UK with you. If they last entered the UK on
previous passport(s) or travel document(s), please also provide these documents if you have
them.

 

I read that to mean to supply the passport of the applicant. If the kid or kids are not coming to the UK you don't need to supply them. We didn’t but we did supply the original birth certificate and a translation.

 

My wife's FLR has only just gone in. We haven't got it yet, by the way...

[Rob180]

Thanks RASG, I see 13a now. That suggests as you say, passports/ID cards as mentioned in Section 4 are only needed for children who are part of the application.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Rob180

[rasg]

Shame that doesn't apply to original birth certificates! It took the wife's family two months to sort that out and send it...

 

And yet another 30 quid for the translation.

Edited September 9, 2016 by rasg

[Rob180]

Yes I had to get those sent from Thailand too and translated. It was a pain in the backside.They actually came in 5 days but I didn't get them for about 2 weeks because  Parcelforce came when we were out and they didn't leave a card. I checked the tracking and found an unnamed courier tried to deliver it about 2 weeks previous at 840pm. Of course we'd gone out for 45 minutes, typical. However, no card was left. They'd sent it to my local post office and it had been lying in there for nearly 2 weeks. I figured that out by investigating which couriers in UK are used by EMS International. I found it was Parcelforce and they told me it was in the post office. A complaint is going to Parcelforce. That package came 7000 miles in less than 5 days but thanks to Parcelforce I didn't get it for about 17 days. I could have checked the tracking sooner, but I had assumed it might take 2 weeks or so anyway so I hadn't bothered. Whether I checked the tracking or not, they're responsible for delivering it or leaving a card. It's just as well I didn't need those documents in a hurry.

 

Why do the Home Office need these birth certificates of children who are not part of the application anyway? Is it in case they were to apply at a later date?

[rasg]

Why do the Home Office need these birth certificates of children who are not part of the application anyway? Is it in case they were to apply at a later date?

 

I think you may have answered your own question. I can’t think of anything else.

[Rob180]

There's probably more to it than that RASG, that would be too simple! Thanks for your help with this stuff today. It gets to the point that you become so hacked off trying to decipher these guidance notes and all the other stuff that you lose the will to live. Having now completed the whole thing I can say that I could write on 1-2 pages EVERYTHING that's needed for this application, so why can't the Home Office provide the same?? If it wasn't for yourself and others on this forum I honestly doubt if I could have had the questions I had clarified if I spent another year on it. The Guidance notes are a pile of garbage and don't go into specific details of what's needed. The real rules are hidden in the Immigration Appendixes and they also contain such contradictory classics as 'if you do not provide original birth certificates we may accept a certified copy' then in the next paragraph it says 'we are unlikely to grant your application without originals'.  The part for ticking which English criteria you meet also has no box for those using a previous A1 certificate, it has one at the start where you fill in the certificate number etc, but at the end.......only a box referring to SELT. Can't they design an application form that actually makes sense in structure and wording?

 

 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Rob180

[rasg]

There's probably more to it than that RASG, that would be too simple!

 

Maybe they want you to be so hacked off that you abandon the application completely and move to Thailand.

 

Can't they design an application form that actually makes sense in structure and wording?

 

We are talking civil servants here! (Pencil pushers).

[Rob180]

 To be honest I think that application form, the guidance notes and all the hidden undecipherable immigration rules are just designed to make you abandon the application. I can't think of any other reason why it's the way it is. What's required for FLR can be written on 1-2 pages in bullit points and the same applies to Entry Visas.  It doesn't need 100s of pages to describe that.

 

I  really dread to think what the application form and 'guidance notes' which they are laughably called are like for ILR.