Tenant refuses to pay rent, refuses to leave resort

[Strange]

1 hour ago, AsianExport said:

So weird that you still talk like a newbie after 20 years here...

 

Not good at choosing wives and tenants it seems... or do you always attract drug addicts ?

 

Never understood why people say stuff like this. You think your slick but people see what your doing. 

 

"Hey guys I have this problem"

 

*People talking about said problem to find a solution*

 

You walk in: "OMG I HAVE BEEN HERE FOR 5 YEARS AND NEVER HAD THIS PROBLEM YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG IM SO THAI LISTEM TO ME"

[Bangkok Barry]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand anyone wanting to go into business in a country where the law is not upheld. It's a huge world out there, where business is conducted fairly and people have morals. Any of those would be better choice.

No matter what the outcome, there is little or nothing to stop him and his mates coming back at any time and trashing the place or destroying it with the aid of a few cans of petrol. Not good.

[AsianExport]

10 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Never understood why people say stuff like this. You think your slick but people see what your doing. 

 

"Hey guys I have this problem"

 

*People talking about said problem to find a solution*

 

You walk in: "OMG I HAVE BEEN HERE FOR 5 YEARS AND NEVER HAD THIS PROBLEM YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG IM SO THAI LISTEM TO ME"

 

 

Because this is true. The OP is smart but last time I read a post from him his wife was a drug addict, sorry, but THESE kinds of things NEVER happen to me.

 

 

 

[Strange]

13 hours ago, simon43 said:

15 years in Thailand, speak fluent Thai, happily divorced from my mad ex-wives.

 

As some comments in this thread suggest, I am too trusting, and this has lead to my downfall before.  I am not a hard-nosed business guy and I readily admit that my 'goodwill' (some would call it naivity), has been taken advantage of on various occasions (by both Thai and 'farang').

 

My Thai family are supportive but fear this guy, as seems many other Thais do in the locality who I have asked for help.  Thai anger + krathom + gun is not a good mix

 

Personally, I'd pay a pittance to a Burmese to 'take out' the guy, as he no doubt might do to me if he loses face.

 

I will make no decision at all until I get some legal advice.

 

As to paying the guy to leave my resort, he has already stated the amount ==> a ludicrous 4 million baht   Since it only cost me 3 million baht to build, I'm not running to the ATM....

 

Hey man, I think you see the writing on the wall. You know the cops are not going to do anything even if you pay them. Everyone says to hire a cop... No thats not going to do anything, especially in Phuket, they are just going to take your money. The Cops are mostly run like a mob, they don't usually do anything unless the "Big Boss" sanctions it. 

 

The Poo Yai - Negative there. Ur not Thai. 

 

Thai Family? Most will not do anything even if they want to because its too dangerous. In fact, most thais won't do anything period because its too dangerous. They lack the backbone. Only time they get one is when there is a "Mob Mentality". 

 

Only options you have are to pursue this in a legal way, and failing that, you take that 3 million he wants, move away, and use the cash to make the guy miserable. 

 

Or just cut your losses, close all accounts, websites, utilities, etc, then move away. 

[Bangkok Barry]

11 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

I'm sorry, but I don't understand anyone wanting to go into business in a country where the law is not upheld. It's a huge world out there, where business is conducted fairly and people have morals. Any of those would be better choice.

No matter what the outcome, there is little or nothing to stop him and his mates coming back at any time and trashing the place or destroying it with the aid of a few cans of petrol. Can you imagine their reaction if losing face to a foreigner? Not good.

 

[Strange]

5 minutes ago, AsianExport said:

Because this is true. The OP is smart but last time I read a post from him his wife was a drug addict, sorry, but THESE kinds of things NEVER happen to me.

 

OK, and the fact that his wife was a drug addict makes the OP in the wrong? Makes it ok for a person to lease his business, refuse to pay rent, refuse to leave, then extort him for 3 million baht? 

 

I see what your trying to get at, but you are clearly missing the point of right and wrong here. 

[AsianExport]

28 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

OK, and the fact that his wife was a drug addict makes the OP in the wrong? Makes it ok for a person to lease his business, refuse to pay rent, refuse to leave, then extort him for 3 million baht? 

 

I see what your trying to get at, but you are clearly missing the point of right and wrong here. 

 

 

I'm not missing anything, the OP said it by himself, he might trust too much and this is not the first time.

The one who is missing EVERYTHING is you, but sorry I am not a doctor.

 

 

[KittenKong]

 

43 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

I'm sorry, but I don't understand anyone wanting to go into business in a country where the law is not upheld. It's a huge world out there, where business is conducted fairly and people have morals. Any of those would be better choice.

 

I've always suspected that most farangs who start businesses here do so because they cant do it in a county with proper laws or standards. And often because they are simply running away from those laws in the first place.

 

Certainly I see nothing attractive at all about being involved in any business in Thailand. It seems to be entirely lose-lose.

[Strange]

1 minute ago, AsianExport said:

I'm not missing anything, the OP said it by himself, he might trust too much and this is not the first time.

The one who is missing EVERYTHING is you, but sorry I am not a doctor.

 

 

Correct, You are not a doctor. 

 

I miss nothing in this topic. The OP May be too trusting, but when talking about who is right and wrong here, can you honestly say that the OP is wrong? 

 

[simon43]

I know this is not helpful but I am curious how you could lock the guestrooms and he didn't have the keys if he has been running it.

 

I entered the resort on the day that he was due to leave.  The guest room keys hang in each room.  He was off-site but is business partners were on-site.  I spoke to him by phone and he told me that he was not leaving and not paying rent.  So I grabbed the room keys and locked the guest rooms before he came back and before his wimpy business partner could stop me.

 

When he refused to leave, I called the police (yea, his friends), who ordered me to return the keys to him.

 

Nice having impartial police, isn't it?

 

I've always suspected that most farangs who start businesses here do so because they cant do it in a county with proper laws or standards

 

I started very successful ICT businesses in the UK and sold out for more than $2 million.  Alas, that was years ago and my UK divorce gobbled up a lot of that money

 

 

 

This situation is very annoying, but would it be any different if I were in the UK and had a sitting tenant?  The wheels of justice turn slowly in all countries.

 

I can only consult my lawyer on Wednesday this week.  This guy will soon find that his revenue stream dries up, yet he still needs to pay the electricity.

 

 

[Mansell]

Simon, part of the issue here is you are emotionally involved in your hotel/resort, and i understand why. Think like how you handled your ex-wife.....you removed yourself emotionally from her....or I hope you did.

an option here is to hand the place back to the landlord and let him deal with this scumbag. You walk away until it is handled. If the landlord comes through for you......great. And if he doesn't just walk away with your head held high. At the moment the scumbag is pulling all the strings and controlling you. To break that cycle you need to let go and walk away from the situation and then his power over you has been broken.

i wouldn't recommend the lawyers and courts....you will be throwing good money after bad. If it doesn't work out with the landlord you will still have your money that you would have wasted in court and lawyers. From what you have said about the landlord he sounds like a decent guy who is happy with you renting his land and paying on time, and not happy with the scumbag. Only time will tell if he comes through for you. But if you choose these options you win either way as you will still have your life and your money and your self respect.

people on here telling you to have the guy scared off or killed have been watching to many movies. If you have him killed and it backfires on you, you might spend the rest of your life in a Thai prison. Your best weapon is removing yourself from this situation. If this whole thing costs you 3 million baht, this is a cheap price to pay for the lessons learned.....I doubt you will make this mistake again. Is this all happening in Kamala? Just  curious. Good luck.

[simon43]

Your best weapon is removing yourself from this situation

 

I totally agree.  My primary reason for wanting to speak with the lawyer is to get their opinion as to whether this guy has breached the lease contract, (normally, this should be the case when he refuses to pay the rent AND refuses to quit the property).  But I need to check this.

 

Then I want my lawyer's opinion about my land lease contract with the landlord, and whether something here can be done to remove this guy without resort to the Courts and extra lawyer fees.

 

When all this is resolved, I do not intend to physically reside at the resort - druggie Thais probably have memories like elephants and I don't want to have to watch my back all the time.  I will get a manager to manage for me.

 

Finally, back to your quote.  Once I know the score with my lawyers, I will leave it in their hands and my landlord's hands.  I'm off to China to teach (I mean 'teach', not 30k baht TEFL teaching - I usually get about 100K baht after tax for teaching in neighbouring countries, which is fine since I have minimal outgoings).  I'll come back when it is all resolved.

 

This problem initially caused me great stress a few days ago when it occurred. But now I see it more as a wake-up call to what is happening in Thailand.  I have been too close to Thailand for 15 years and now it is maybe time to step away and enjoy time in other countries.

[Mansell]

Good choices Simon. Enjoy your time in China. And let us know how it all plays out.

[simon43]

LoL, as an example of how 'toytown' this country has become, my lawyer asked me to register a statement at the police station of the events as I see them.  (This doesn't mean the statement details are true - it is simply to get a police receipt that you have made a statement, just the same as if you have lost your bank book).

 

Well surprise surprise!  the local police station refuse to register my statement, because they are the guys who are friends with the guy who is squatting in my resort, they are the guys who ordered me to return the keys to the locked guest rooms to this guy and they are the guys who told him that he doesn't have to pay the rent this month!!

 

When I went to the main Amphur police station in Thalang to register this statement, they refused as well, saying that I had to register it with my local police....  They refused to accept my very polite comment (in Thai) that the local police were good friends with the very guy who is causing me all these problems.

 

BTW, these Thalang police are the same guys who have called upon me on many occasions to help out/translate when they have had problems with foreign tourists

[DipStick]

13 minutes ago, simon43 said:

LoL, as an example of how 'toytown' this country has become, my lawyer asked me to register a statement at the police station of the events as I see them.  (This doesn't mean the statement details are true - it is simply to get a police receipt that you have made a statement, just the same as if you have lost your bank book).

 

Well surprise surprise!  the local police station refuse to register my statement, because they are the guys who are friends with the guy who is squatting in my resort, they are the guys who ordered me to return the keys to the locked guest rooms to this guy and they are the guys who told him that he doesn't have to pay the rent this month!!

 

When I went to the main Amphur police station in Thalang to register this statement, they refused as well, saying that I had to register it with my local police....  They refused to accept my very polite comment (in Thai) that the local police were good friends with the very guy who is causing me all these problems.

 

BTW, these Thalang police are the same guys who have called upon me on many occasions to help out/translate when they have had problems with foreign tourists

 

13 minutes ago, simon43 said:

LoL, as an example of how 'toytown' this country has become, my lawyer asked me to register a statement at the police station of the events as I see them.  (This doesn't mean the statement details are true - it is simply to get a police receipt that you have made a statement, just the same as if you have lost your bank book).

 

Well surprise surprise!  the local police station refuse to register my statement, because they are the guys who are friends with the guy who is squatting in my resort, they are the guys who ordered me to return the keys to the locked guest rooms to this guy and they are the guys who told him that he doesn't have to pay the rent this month!!

 

When I went to the main Amphur police station in Thalang to register this statement, they refused as well, saying that I had to register it with my local police....  They refused to accept my very polite comment (in Thai) that the local police were good friends with the very guy who is causing me all these problems.

 

BTW, these Thalang police are the same guys who have called upon me on many occasions to help out/translate when they have had problems with foreign tourists

 

 

Dear oh dear, set up ? Hands tied ? A one way street ending in a culdesac ! Totally ludicrous. You are not in any way destined to win this either fair ways our foul. So China here you go. I know what I would do now if I was you, get to China, wait a couple of months then pay someone to torch the premises. 

[simon43]

...  then pay someone to torch the premises

 

Does concrete block burn??

[DipStick]

37 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Does concrete block burn??

Yes it does with an accelerant such as petrol/ gas, but I was thinking more the interior of a couple of rooms accessed through a window, say at 4am in the morning. But I am assuming this thug has frightened away all the guests 

[wump]

Just use airplane fuel to melt the steel inside the concrete.

[simon43]

But I am assuming this thug has frightened away all the guests 

 

LoL, some but not all.

 

Here is a typical letter of complaint from Agoda

 

"

Dear Valued Partner, 

Greetings from Agoda.com. 

 

The customer of this booking has contacted us and informed that she had a terrified experience with your hotel staffs. The customer advised that she arrived at hotel on 9th July and has been informed by the front desk staff that the airport transfer is free of charge. She was very happy that time and informed the front desk staff that she needs to leave by 5:30am and the staff agreed to send them to airport. 

 

The next day (10th July 2016) morning when they woke up, they went to the place where the staff told her where they're staying and tried to get them but no one was waking up at that time. After several attempts to get them (which took about 30 minutes according to the customer), one of them finally woke up and came out in boxers. 

 

The staff was very unhappy after being awaken and went straight to the toilet. After coming back from the toilet, the staff went into his room and took out a gun in a holster. The customer admitted that they were a little frustrated as they may run late for their flight and tried to rush the staff, the staff then unbuttoned the holster. Before the staff remove the holster, the customers have decided to runaway while the going was good. 

 

Kindly clarify and advise if we can refund this booking to the guest.

 

Your kind response is much appreciated. "

 

(I think Agoda customer service is being very restrained about this complaint - I would be asking What the *&^(&&&*is going on when our guests have to flee into the woods at the point of a gun! )

[SoiBiker]

You must be getting some awesome tripadvisor reviews. 

[simon43]

You must be getting some awesome tripadvisor reviews. 

 

That complaint didn't make it to TripAdvisor.  There is an interesting one on Ctrip from another Chinese lady who got mightily upset about this guy.

 

Please bear in mind that before this guy leased my resort, I was getting 10/10 ratings all over the place - this is one reason why I planned to change the hotel name after I regained control.

 

Anyway, I've almost finalised a nice job in China, and I have worked out a legal and almost fullproof way to get my 60,000 THB rent each month from this guy.  I just need to place myself out of the reach of him first

[simon43]

...

 the customers have decided to runaway while the going was good.

 

I love this comment 

[Clamhua]

TAT must be loving this guy promoting Thailand so well 

[simon43]

TAT must be loving this guy promoting Thailand so well 

 

But you can imagine the headache that I got when these initial customer complaints surfaced.  I was teaching at a school in Surat Thani and I had to resign my job to try to firefight all this.  I thought the complaints situation was terrible, but didn't realise what was to come.

 

But...

 

[amykat]

Hi Simon,

 

I'm just curious, if your landlord takes over at some point, what would be different for him as far as working with the current tenant?  Why would he be willing to take on this problem?  (If he was just going to give the property back to you?) 

 

Can you not imagine a situation where he is faking his angry reaction towards the tenant ...and once you give up, sign over the property or whatever you do, the tenant magically leaves?

 

Also consider how the tenant knows the magic number of 4 million baht, one that is too much to pay ...seems convenient.  If he wanted to make some money ...IF he wanted money  ... he would come up with a number that you might actually pay ...even if it was a high number.

 

Just to remind you ...I'm the poster who thinks your landlord is behind this plot ...think about it ...don't be fooled by words, smiles, his fake outrage, whatever. 

 

You seem to be on a good track though, getting away from it all.  Even if I am correct ...I don't know what you can do about it but I hope you won't trust that man.  Beware!!

[KittenKong]

I also think it quite likely that the landlord is pulling some scam with the tenant.

[KittenKong]

On 12/09/2016 at 11:34 AM, simon43 said:

I started very successful ICT businesses in the UK and sold out for more than $2 million.  Alas, that was years ago and my UK divorce gobbled up a lot of that money

 

You are the exception that proves the rule. I still believe that many people who start businesses here do so because they have failed to do so elsewhere.

 

 

On 12/09/2016 at 11:34 AM, simon43 said:

This situation is very annoying, but would it be any different if I were in the UK and had a sitting tenant?  The wheels of justice turn slowly in all countries.

 

Yes, I think it would be very different in the UK as there is real law there and that law is applied.

[watcharacters]

On September 11, 2016 at 8:32 PM, mikiea said:

a Hersey bar contract is what will solv.....................

 

 

 

I give up.   What's a " Hersey bar contract"?

[Bung]

Sad to read about this as I remember you starting the build thread and how successful you made it.  

[simon43]

The landlord is definitely not in cahoots with the druggie tenant.  There is no faking anger here.  He is an old guy and both he and his family just want me back at the resort and paying the land rent again, without all the problems that this tenant is creating.

 

Well, that scenario isn't going to happen because I want a peaceful life without the threats from this tenant.  If I do take on the resort again, it will be managed by another person and I'll enjoy my life in another country.