Injustice echoes from all sides two years after Koh Tao murders

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I said all I want to say made my points you can disagree and I can disagree with you. Not going over this all again. I made my points and stay with them.  

 

I have no vested interests I live in BKK, and have no connection with KoTao. 

 

 

 

But why do you give such credence to the views of David Miller's family, but none at all to those of Hannah Witheridge's?

[Jai Dee]

More troll posts (and replies) have been removed from this thread.

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

But why do you give such credence to the views of David Miller's family, but none at all to those of Hannah Witheridge's?

I will give them as much credence if you tell me they don't believe it I would say it would cancel it out and I would say I have no opinion about the case anymore. Then I would say that its hard to prove they are guilty and hard to prove the are not because in my opinion both families have the most at stake and know the most. So if the can't come to the same conclusion.. then its certainly a difficult case where either side can be true.

 

My point has always been that the families and those really informed know far more and have far more at stake then the internet detectives here. 

 

My point is that they have had access and information the general public has not. There is a lot speculation here and its hard to know what evidence is real that floats around on the internet.

 

That is why i say i trust those with the most vested interest an with most access to the evidence more as anyone here (talking about the family)

[Khun Han]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

I will give them as much credence if you tell me they don't believe it I would say it would cancel it out and I would say I have no opinion about the case anymore. Then I would say that its hard to prove they are guilty and hard to prove the are not because in my opinion both families have the most at stake and know the most. So if the can't come to the same conclusion.. then its certainly a difficult case where either side can be true.

 

My point has always been that the families and those really informed know far more and have far more at stake then the internet detectives here. 

 

My point is that they have had access and information the general public has not. There is a lot speculation here and its hard to know what evidence is real that floats around on the internet.

 

That is why i say i trust those with the most vested interest an with most access to the evidence more as anyone here (talking about the family)

 

I can confirm that Hannah Witheridge's family believe that the two Burmese boys are innocent.

 

The only information that David and Hannah's families have had access to that hasn't been made public is the UK police report. Neither the prosecution nor the defence have had acces to this report, so it forms no part of the case. The defence applied for access to it in the UK courts, but the judge declined (with a lot of reservations and concern) on the basis of international police relations. You can read his summing up in my post above.

[DiscoDan]

29 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I can confirm that Hannah Witheridge's family believe that the two Burmese boys are innocent.

 

The only information that David and Hannah's families have had access to that hasn't been made public is the UK police report. Neither the prosecution nor the defence have had acces to this report, so it forms no part of the case. The defence applied for access to it in the UK courts, but the judge declined (with a lot of reservations and concern) on the basis of international police relations. You can read his summing up in my post above.

 

If the Witheridges think the B2 are innocent why don't they make a statement to that affect ? so far only Laura has made 1 FB post that was later deleted,

 

Its also known that activists who are trying to get the B2 of the hook have befriended Laura .

 

As you can confirm the whole family think they are innocent maybe you can supply a link to this ?

[DiscoDan]

2 hours ago, DM07 said:

There is a question lingering here, for all the shills, who still defend the RTP and the verdict:

if it would be YOU or your son or even a friend, being send to death- row on these "evidences"...would you be okay with that?

Would you settle for a magic bullet, that might have been shown to some very special people, but not all involved...especially the defense?

Would you settle with a "because we said so" and a "the samples have been used up/ lost/ destroyed" (depending on who you had to listen to?)

Would you be okay, with a suspect, "helping" the police to "secure" the crime -scene?

Would you be happy with lost evidence (hair), tempered evidence (clothes) or never reviewed evidence (CCTV)?

 

I make it simple for you: you would fight hell and high water, call the RTP and the judge every name in the book and spit in the face of everybody, who defended this poorly executed comic- strip of a trial!

And of course you would be right!

And if that ever happens, I hope, you meet people like yourself!

That might open some eyes!

I trust the Miller family it was their son who was murdered they sat through the whole trial, and not behind a keyboard like yourself. 

 

Meanwhile your farang defense team are fighting in between themselves on twitter, with accusations of fraud, plagiarism and misuse of donation money. 

 

 

 

 

[DM07]

2 minutes ago, DiscoDan said:

I trust the Miller family it was their son who was murdered they sat through the whole trial, and not behind a keyboard like yourself. 

 

Meanwhile your farang defense team are fighting in between themselves on twitter, with accusations of fraud, plagiarism and misuse of donation money. 

 

 

 

 

And what the about the Witheridge - family?

As far as I recall, their daughter was murdered, too!

But I guess, since they're judgement of events doesn't fit your narrative, they don't count!?

 

My defense team?

I am not on death- row and I am not a murder- suspect!

Although: given the shoddy work of judges and police, I might have been, if had been on Koh Tao on that fateful night...and so could you!

[Khun Han]

33 minutes ago, DiscoDan said:

 

If the Witheridges think the B2 are innocent why don't they make a statement to that affect ? so far only Laura has made 1 FB post that was later deleted,

 

Its also known that activists who are trying to get the B2 of the hook have befriended Laura .

 

As you can confirm the whole family think they are innocent maybe you can supply a link to this ?

 

Dan, no-one's interested. The only interest any honest poster has in you is to correct your constant stream of miinterpretation. Like I said, the real killers will just have to grit their teeth and wait for time to do it's job. No amount of massaging internet perceptions of this debacle will change that fact.

[DiscoDan]

5 minutes ago, DM07 said:

And what the about the Witheridge - family?

As far as I recall, their daughter was murdered, too!

But I guess, since they're judgement of events doesn't fit your narrative, they don't count!?

 

My defense team?

I am not on death- row and I am not a murder- suspect!

Although: given the shoddy work of judges and police, I might have been, if had been on Koh Tao on that fateful night...and so could you!

What about the Witheridges show me a statement where they say the they believe the wrong verdict was reached.

 

Laura FB statement was more about how she claimed police treated her family and about Thailand nothing about the verdict, and the post was later removed.

 

The Millers are sticking by their statement if Hannah's parents really think they have got the wrong people then why are they doing nothing about it ?

 

As khun Han claims to know how the family feel maybe she should get them to issue a statement saying they believe the wrong people have been charged.

[DiscoDan]

16 minutes ago, DM07 said:

And what the about the Witheridge - family?

As far as I recall, their daughter was murdered, too!

But I guess, since they're judgement of events doesn't fit your narrative, they don't count!?

 

My defense team?

I am not on death- row and I am not a murder- suspect!

Although: given the shoddy work of judges and police, I might have been, if had been on Koh Tao on that fateful night...and so could you!

The so called shoddy work got a conviction meanwhile the farang defense team are blaming each over for the guilty verdict, claiming that Jane Taupin should have been called and why the defense did not do anything to try and debunk the dna results.

 

As of today 

 

You have  Andy Hall awaiting a courts verdict for defamation (telling lies)

 

The Barrister Robert Holmes accused of being convicted of a million dollar fraud back in Australia, and allegations made by Perth property lawyer Ian Yarwood  that he stole 5K Aussie dollars meant for the defense.

 

Perth property lawyer Ian Yarwood has been accused of plagiarizing the defense teams letter and sending it to the labs without permission .

 

So maybe you should tell me why I should trust Andy Hall Robert Holmes and Ian Yarwood over the Millers ?

 

[DM07]

13 minutes ago, DiscoDan said:

What about the Witheridges show me a statement where they say the they believe the wrong verdict was reached.

 

Laura FB statement was more about how she claimed police treated her family and about Thailand nothing about the verdict, and the post was later removed.

 

The Millers are sticking by their statement if Hannah's parents really think they have got the wrong people then why are they doing nothing about it ?

 

As khun Han claims to know how the family feel maybe she should get them to issue a statement saying they believe the wrong people have been charged.

It's not what they say; it is what they NOT say!

While the Millers stampeded forward, praising the RTP for their exceptional work (seriously?), the Whiteridge - family did nothing of that sort.

In fact, they were rather quiet and respectful in their wording.

So if both families attended the same trial and were handed the same information: why does one basically j!22 their pants for the RTP and one says nothing of that sort?

[DiscoDan]

15 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Dan, no-one's interested. The only interest any honest poster has in you is to correct your constant stream of miinterpretation. Like I said, the real killers will just have to grit their teeth and wait for time to do it's job. No amount of massaging internet perceptions of this debacle will change that fact.

Maybe you should get some evidence on the real killers then the mods won't have to keep removing your posts for being defamatory 

[DiscoDan]

I can think of no reason why the Millers or Witheridges would not want to see justice served  but I see a million reasons for the farang defense would not

 

http://www.samuitimes.com/the-koh-tao-murders-two-years-on/

 

"Strangely Andy Hall, who raised several million baht to defend the two men never produced proper accounts for where the funds went and only visited the men once in seven months pre-verdict. Although Mr Hall was on Koh Samui on Christmas day, the day after the boys and their devastated families tried to get their heads around the death sentence, he failed to visit the two men in jail."

 

[Khun Han]

Dan, you're appalling. Andy Hall is not being prosecuted for telling lies, and you know that full well. This is just 'wrestling with pigs'. You'd think the real killers would be happy to get away with murder. Instead, two years down the line, they are bleating about being victims, and their friends and supporters are still spamming the internet in a concerted effort to convince a world that knows the truth that they don't really know the truth!!! Truly appalling people.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Khun Han

[DiscoDan]

11 minutes ago, DM07 said:

It's not what they say; it is what they NOT say!

While the Millers stampeded forward, praising the RTP for their exceptional work (seriously?), the Whiteridge - family did nothing of that sort.

In fact, they were rather quiet and respectful in their wording.

So if both families attended the same trial and were handed the same information: why does one basically j!22 their pants for the RTP and one says nothing of that sort?

No I think you will find its what people say if they don't say anything how do you know what they are thinking ?

 

It only suits people like you because you can twist their silence  to mean something it deosn't

[Khun Han]

Anyway, the summing up by Mr Justice Green on the UK police report seems to have been lost in the clean up. Here it is again:

 

 

 

hq_15X0311_final.pdf

[DiscoDan]

13 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

Dan, you're appalling. Andy Hall is not being prosecuted for telling lies, and you know that full well. This is just 'wrestling with pigs'. You'd think the real killers would be happy to get away with murder. Instead, two years down the line, they are bleating about being victims, and their friends and supporters are still spamming the internet in a concerted effort to convince a world that knows the truth that they don't really know the truth!!! Truly appalling people.

 

Yes he is thats what defamation is the verdict is later this month,  then  we will found out if he is guilty or not, and so far Robert Holmes hasn't denied It is him named in the courier mail for a million pound fraud, face it your defense team is in Tatters 

[DM07]

19 minutes ago, DiscoDan said:

No I think you will find its what people say if they don't say anything how do you know what they are thinking ?

 

It only suits people like you because you can twist their silence  to mean something it deosn't

Again: both families have the same information (at least, I hope so!).

One is tooootally, 100% convinced, the B2 are guilty and state that very clear!

The other family says nothing of that sort! AT ALL!

For you, it is a "guilty as charged"!

Not for me, though!

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, DiscoDan said:

 

Yes he is thats what defamation is the verdict is later this month,  then  we will found out if he is guilty or not, and so far Robert Holmes hasn't denied It is him named in the courier mail for a million pound fraud, face it your defense team is in Tatters 

 

Please direct your obnoxious, dishonest garbage at somebody else from now on. I'll puke if I try to deal with any more of it. Quite why the mods allow you to get away with posting a constant stream of lies and misinterpretations is beyond me. I thought it was against the forum rules.

[smedly]

On ‎9‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 2:58 PM, smedly said:

the families are split actually and neither are equipped to make a judgement on the technicalities of legal process, as I have repeated many times - it all comes down to the inability of the prosecution to produce the original samples of DNA for verification and based on that there is no physical (produced) evidence linking the two accused to the crime, the police claim tests were a match but without the actual evidence it is nothing more than that - a claim, and therefore hearsay, the conviction was based on physical DNA evidence that was never produced to the court, lets no go there again as it has been done over and over

all this nonsense going on here when one important fact remains - no DNA = no conviction

 

As said before many times, without the original samples of DNA the prosecution case falls apart and has no legal basis, this is a fact, the judge might have decided to accept the police and prosecution presentation on DNA (up to him) but without the actual verified evidence it is not worth the paper it's written on - or scribble on as it turns out

 

May I also point out that the UK pathologist that examined Hanna's body made an unusual and profound statement about her findings - she found no evidence of rape, that statement would also mean no traces of sperm.

 

The evil scum that committed these haenous crimes staged the crime scene to make it look like sexual assault - I never believed that from the start, to me this was the work of a savage that at some point he and others were insulted by the victim, perhaps they rudely rebuked advances and someone lost face and this person or persons decided to seek retribution - people who think they are powerful don't like being refused, I believe Hannah was followed home from a bar and David just happened to come across the situation either also on his way home or heard it from his room, either way he arrived at the scene and got involved unfortunately, I am not so sure about the headman son being involved but there are other evils in that place.

 

Another "fact" that continues to trouble me is how Mon the resort owner was able to notice the hoe was missing from under the tree (a considerable distance from the crime scene) and went looking for it to have it put back were it was supposed to be, this is all before the investigation had actually started and the hoe was found and determined as the possible weapon used in the murders and yet Mon knew it was missing - why at such an early stage would he even have considered it connected to the crime.

 

I also stated a few month back that I would not like to be in the shoes of the Rotti seller who served as an interpreter during the so called "interviews" with the accused, I said he was one of the people that could likely blow this case wide open, shortly after that he disappeared and is believed to be dead - go figure

 

and as for the phones - police said that this IMEI number match this phone - which phone ? the one found at the crime scene or the one found at the residence, either way both phones should have been in evidence and their details investigated and fully disclosed - one is still unaccounted for to this day - where is it

 

Where are Hannah's clothes ? critical evidence that apparently along with so called DNA evidence have disappeared all very convenient if you are making stuff up     

[smedly]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

Please direct your obnoxious, dishonest garbage at somebody else from now on. I'll puke if I try to deal with any more of it. Quite why the mods allow you to get away with posting a constant stream of lies and misinterpretations is beyond me. I thought it was against the forum rules.

it is referred to as baiting and trolling, another word for it would be garbage

[bannork]

Smedly, have you got a link stating the Uk pathologist fòund no sperm in Hannah? I can only find references with blanks in place, ie Andy Hall''s remarks.p

BTW no evidence of rape doesn't mean no evidence of sperm. If I remember there was some reference to damage caused to Hannah's groin area.

[Khun Han]

The British pathologist said that the tissue damage happened post mortem at the Thai autopsy.

[bannork]

It would be great if you could provide a link to that Khun Han cos I can't access the coroner's report on google.

[AleG]

24 minutes ago, bannork said:

Smedly, have you got a link stating the Uk pathologist fòund no sperm in Hannah? I can only find references with blanks in place, ie Andy Hall''s remarks.p

BTW no evidence of rape doesn't mean no evidence of sperm. If I remember there was some reference to damage caused to Hannah's groin area.

 

Andy Hall says the coroner said no rape, the reality is the coroner said:

"A post-mortem examination by a UK pathologist gave the medical cause of death as severe head injuries.It noted that there were multiple blows to the skull, consistent with the use of the blade of a hoe wielded as a weapon, and death would have been rapid.There was evidence of dragging and sexual assault, and no signs of defensive injuries."

I will point out that this particular case of obfuscation of the facts comes from someone who received a considerable amount of money and press attention on the premise of fighting to bring transparency to the case.

[IslandLover]

6 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

I trust the Miller family it was their son who was murdered they sat through the whole trial, and not behind a keyboard like yourself. 

 

Meanwhile your farang defense team are fighting in between themselves on twitter, with accusations of fraud, plagiarism and misuse of donation money. 

 

 

 

 

 

Since you have posted a link on this very forum to the Samui Times article that is the subject of the present twitter war, which Robert Holmes claims defames 5 people, and which he is threatening legal action over, citing the McAlpine vs. Bercow case, I find your motivation extremely suspect.  Are you hoping to involve ThaiVisa in Robert Holmes's threatened defamation suit?

 

There were others who attended the entire trial who are of a different opinion to the Millers.  If the Millers have information which proves conclusively that the B2 are guilty of the crimes of which they have been convicted, they should now make it public and it would stop all the speculation.  My guess is they haven't, and they can't.

[IslandLover]

6 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

The so called shoddy work got a conviction meanwhile the farang defense team are blaming each over for the guilty verdict, claiming that Jane Taupin should have been called and why the defense did not do anything to try and debunk the dna results.

 

As of today 

 

You have  Andy Hall awaiting a courts verdict for defamation (telling lies)

 

The Barrister Robert Holmes accused of being convicted of a million dollar fraud back in Australia, and allegations made by Perth property lawyer Ian Yarwood  that he stole 5K Aussie dollars meant for the defense.

 

Perth property lawyer Ian Yarwood has been accused of plagiarizing the defense teams letter and sending it to the labs without permission .

 

So maybe you should tell me why I should trust Andy Hall Robert Holmes and Ian Yarwood over the Millers ?

 

 

You have  Andy Hall awaiting a courts verdict for defamation (telling lies)

 

Telling lies?   Don't make me laugh.  Only in Thailand is a defamation lawsuit pursued even when someone is telling the truth, as you well know.  

[Khun Han]

37 minutes ago, AleG said:

 

Andy Hall says the coroner said no rape, the reality is the coroner said:

"A post-mortem examination by a UK pathologist gave the medical cause of death as severe head injuries.It noted that there were multiple blows to the skull, consistent with the use of the blade of a hoe wielded as a weapon, and death would have been rapid.There was evidence of dragging and sexual assault, and no signs of defensive injuries."

I will point out that this particular case of obfuscation of the facts comes from someone who received a considerable amount of money and press attention on the premise of fighting to bring transparency to the case.

 

Again, the deliberate misinterpretation: in English law, sexual assault is not rape. If someone has been raped, it is legally defined as 'rape'. When someone has been sexually assaulted, but not raped, it is legally defined as 'sexual assault'. There is a clear definition in English law between the two.

[IslandLover]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

It would be great if you could provide a link to that Khun Han cos I can't access the coroner's report on google.

 

Khun Han said: The British pathologist said that the tissue damage happened post mortem at the Thai autopsy.

 

The Norfolk Coroner's Report is not available to the general public.  Khun Han is referring to a public statement made by Nad Bergman, lawyer for the defence, on the day the appeal was submitted.

[DiscoDan]

1 hour ago, IslandLover said:

 

Since you have posted a link on this very forum to the Samui Times article that is the subject of the present twitter war, which Robert Holmes claims defames 5 people, and which he is threatening legal action over, citing the McAlpine vs. Bercow case, I find your motivation extremely suspect.  Are you hoping to involve ThaiVisa in Robert Holmes's threatened defamation suit?

 

There were others who attended the entire trial who are of a different opinion to the Millers.  If the Millers have information which proves conclusively that the B2 are guilty of the crimes of which they have been convicted, they should now make it public and it would stop all the speculation.  My guess is they haven't, and they can't.

I presume you won't be posting the article on your thailandjustice website then ?

On 9/14/2016 at 3:37 PM, scorecard said:

 

Edited September 16, 2016 by DiscoDan
Removing quote from scorecard