I really like Thailand!

[geriatrickid]

20 hours ago, The manic said:

If you value human rights so much why are you here? Why write so extensively in disagreement just to piss on someones parade? Anyway 'Yuman Rites' are not always concomitant with freedom. The USA - UK - Europe etc have these rights but people have a rotten time because of strict police - high crime - violence - absurd anti car laws that exhort money from people - dreadful, incompetent, over paid, under worked police - effectively just as uncountable as other third world police forces. The application of the drug laws is a disgrace - no human rights there!  Whats wrong with 'Gals'? Who made you PC monitor? - this forum is not a committee meeting of the SWP or a feminists group!  Lighten up - Sanuk does not bring to mind people dressed as monks!  If it does for you then you are the deluded one.  So you have Zero tolerance for people who worship idols!?  Well aren't you the high minded one!? Christmas must be fun at your place! This is not about right or wrong but about positive and negative views. You have negatives views that are tedious and cliched. Negativity is a bore and basically anti life . The OP has views that are pro life and positive- he is to be applauded.

 

Has it dawned on you yet, there there are many honourable and ethical foreigners in Thailand, who do make a positive difference? Do you know what happens if these foreigners just up and leave? Think about it.  Some foreigners have their families here and  can not just up and leave.

 

This  is not about me or those who may voice their  concerns/ reservations. My comments were in response to another lecture from someone who most likely has limited  dealings with Thais, let alone speaks their language. I don't appreciate being told that my concerns are nothing, by someone who claims "he can live anywhere", yet occupies one of the lower parts of the social status system.  As I wrote, I just don't understand where all these self professed wealthy people come from  and who can afford to live a life  of splendor. It's boastful BS and it is annoying. The truth is that these people are more likely to live in a dirty little room in a Pattaya flop house and to pay for carnal relations with a hooker covered in tramp stamps than to have money left over from the pension check to maintain a pot to piss in.  

 

It is infuriating to be told how things are by people who are marginalized  within Thai society. They think they are insiders, but they are not.  Yes, I get it, some people become excited when  a bar girl makes a fuss over them or a taxi driver or  waiter gives them attention. Unfortunately, it means nothing. Too many foreigners just don't realize that they have zero standing here until it is too late. They don't realize that unless they are connected and are wealthy, they have  no rights and that the legal system is stacked against them.

You don't get it do you, the part about hierarchy do you?  And no having a brother in law who is a police   captain or general doesn't bring social status either. The hisos  consider cops to be corrupt losers, which is why they are so rude and contemptuous of them.

 

As is typical with those who fall over themselves expounding on how much better it is in Thailand, we are treated to a critique of their homelands. The UK is awful. Australia is awful. Nanny state, blah blah blah. Well here's a reality check; the pensions these people receive are paid for by the taxpayers  in their homelands. Oh sure they may have paid in, but the fact is, the money paid in by most of the elderly pensioners living in Thailand doesn't  actually cover the amounts they have been paid or will be paid. Thailand is so great, that when a real medical crisis occurs, the first thing they do is to try and get back to their homelands for Medicare/ National Health Service  benefits etc.  More amazing  is that they are the first to start criticizing their  countries' slowness or perceived failure in not responding to  situations when they get jammed up.  If Thailand is so great, why do they need  legal assistance from the embassy when they are ripped off in one of those infamous business deals gone bad?

 

I get it, Thailand is wonderful for some people. Good for them. I do not however, need to be lectured by them particularly since the Thais consider them to have the same social standing as the  bar girls they hang out with or the taxi drivers they befriend.

 

 

[Fookhaht]

After traveling in 30 countries, and working in five, Thailand (specifically Isaan) chose me through a job invitation.  Leaving my previous job of 20 years, I also could have settled anywhere in the world.  Now, after more than 10 years, I realize just how lucky I was--I couldn't have chosen a better place myself:  food, culture, friendliness, low-stress lifestyle, reasonably good healthcare system, close access to airport, etc.

Although the below is mostly about Bangkok, some of it rings true for the rest of Thailand as well...
http://whatsonsukhumvit.com/12-things-thailand-does-better-than-anywhere-else-in-the-world/

Edited September 23, 2016 by Fookhaht

[Fookhaht]

22 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Has it dawned on you yet, there there are many honourable and ethical foreigners in Thailand, who do make a positive difference? Do you know what happens if these foreigners just up and leave? Think about it.  Some foreigners have their families here and  can not just up and leave.

 

This  is not about me or those who may voice their  concerns/ reservations. My comments were in response to another lecture from someone who most likely has limited  dealings with Thais, let alone speaks their language. I don't appreciate being told that my concerns are nothing, by someone who claims "he can live anywhere", yet occupies one of the lower parts of the social status system.  As I wrote, I just don't understand where all these self professed wealthy people come from  and who can afford to live a life  of splendor. It's boastful BS and it is annoying. The truth is that these people are more likely to live in a dirty little room in a Pattaya flop house and to pay for carnal relations with a hooker covered in tramp stamps than to have money left over from the pension check to maintain a pot to piss in.  

 

It is infuriating to be told how things are by people who are marginalized  within Thai society. They think they are insiders, but they are not.  Yes, I get it, some people become excited when  a bar girl makes a fuss over them or a taxi driver or  waiter gives them attention. Unfortunately, it means nothing. Too many foreigners just don't realize that they have zero standing here until it is too late. They don't realize that unless they are connected and are wealthy, they have  no rights and that the legal system is stacked against them.

You don't get it do you, the part about hierarchy do you?  And no having a brother in law who is a police   captain or general doesn't bring social status either. The hisos  consider cops to be corrupt losers, which is why they are so rude and contemptuous of them.

 

As is typical with those who fall over themselves expounding on how much better it is in Thailand, we are treated to a critique of their homelands. The UK is awful. Australia is awful. Nanny state, blah blah blah. Well here's a reality check; the pensions these people receive are paid for by the taxpayers  in their homelands. Oh sure they may have paid in, but the fact is, the money paid in by most of the elderly pensioners living in Thailand doesn't  actually cover the amounts they have been paid or will be paid. Thailand is so great, that when a real medical crisis occurs, the first thing they do is to try and get back to their homelands for Medicare/ National Health Service  benefits etc.  More amazing  is that they are the first to start criticizing their  countries' slowness or perceived failure in not responding to  situations when they get jammed up.  If Thailand is so great, why do they need  legal assistance from the embassy when they are ripped off in one of those infamous business deals gone bad?

 

I get it, Thailand is wonderful for some people. Good for them. I do not however, need to be lectured by them particularly since the Thais consider them to have the same social standing as the  bar girls they hang out with or the taxi drivers they befriend.

 

 

The thread was a breath of fresh air, until I came to this.

 A stereotypical "lecture" from a cynical self-proclaimed "insider."  Really, much worse than his targets. 
Sometimes, a vacation from ThaiVisa is all that's necessary for a mental health break.  

[joeyg]

1 minute ago, Fookhaht said:

The thread was a breath of fresh air, until I came to this.

 A stereotypical "lecture" from a cynical self-proclaimed "insider."  Really, much worse than his targets. 
Sometimes, a vacation from ThaiVisa is all that's necessary for a mental health break.  

Thanks I got a headache just thinking of responding to this post.  I have rediscovered the ignore function and it's making TV a much better experience.  Think about it you can just "make people disappear."

[Berkshire]

38 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

 

It is infuriating to be told how things are by people who are marginalized  within Thai society. They think they are insiders, but they are not.  Yes, I get it, some people become excited when  a bar girl makes a fuss over them or a taxi driver or  waiter gives them attention. Unfortunately, it means nothing. Too many foreigners just don't realize that they have zero standing here until it is too late. They don't realize that unless they are connected and are wealthy, they have  no rights and that the legal system is stacked against them.

 

 

Well that's one point-of-view.  You're certainly entitled to it.  And I don't doubt that this is how it is for you in Thailand.  I believe you.  But to insists that it "must" be like this for the rest of us....let's just say I respectfully disagree. 

 

[impulse]

On 9/22/2016 at 0:10 PM, SoiBiker said:

I know loads of western women here. They're generally a lot happier than the western men on this forum. 

 

Kind of like a woman at an all male college is happy?

[impulse]

On 9/21/2016 at 7:54 PM, DeaconJohn said:

All you have to do is find a good girl, marry her, have children, build a house, buy a car and a motorbike, create your own space, be friendly with the extended family but don't allow yourself to become an ATM.

That has worked for me. Still love the place and the people after all these years.

 

That's a lot like saying all you have to do is get a high paid job, marry rich, don't get sick, and don't invest in anything that will ever go down in value.  

 

Works for some.  Not so well for others- and often at no fault of their own.

[55Jay]

On 9/21/2016 at 5:04 PM, JAFO said:

I'm with the OP.  I too really like Thailand. I could have moved and lived anywhere. In fact I could have easily just stayed in the US. I traveled around and just like the place.

 

I work with Thai folks all day long. Nicest folk. Easy to get on with. I see more smiles in a day here then I would see in the US in damn near a month. One thing clear is work isn't everything to Thai's. They seem to balance it very well. While many criticize the "Mai Pen Rai" attitude, for me its refreshing. They do not get their underwear all cranked up in their butt over silly things versus where I just moved from. Point in case, Wife and I were at a restaurant the other night. Place had a rush of customers and 2 poor waitresses were swamped. In the US I guarantee you people would have been screaming, demanding to talk to the manager, wanting their money back and so on and so on. They would have not even left a tip even though the waitress had nothing to do with the surge of customers. Here folks understood, were patient, carried on with the discussions, waited and got their food. Same with us. Our waitress apologized and it was OK. No worries.  We left her a tip.

IMO, the debate about Thailand is similar to what many folks say about Trip Advisor reviews.  Ignore the ones laced with over the top venom as well as lavish praise about paradise found.   The needle usually comes to rest in the middle.

 

[joeyg]

4 minutes ago, returnofthailand said:

some guys here write we don't know what a high quality of life is.

so tell me what is a high quality of life?

big house with garage full of junks and a big car parked in front of the garage ? is that not the American dream again.?

 

 

 

My last home was 4 bed 3 bath in a very nice location in So Cal.  Had 2 cars, one truck and one motorcycle.  I'm happy to have liquidated everything and living a "minimalistic" life style in a very nice high rise condo near  Wongamat Beach...  http://www.theminimalists.com/radical/

[joeyg]

33 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

IMO, the debate about Thailand is similar to what many folks say about Trip Advisor reviews.  Ignore the ones laced with over the top venom as well as lavish praise about paradise found.   The needle usually comes to rest in the middle.

 

I really like it here... 

 

[HoboKay]

20 minutes ago, joeyg said:

My last home was 4 bed 3 bath in a very nice location in So Cal.  Had 2 cars, one truck and one motorcycle.  I'm happy to have liquidated everything and living a "minimalistic" life style in a very nice high rise condo near  Wongamat Beach...  http://www.theminimalists.com/radical/

 

I'll echo the minimalist approach, which I found surprisingly easy to achieve since relocating to Bangkok.

 

Perhaps there is some good to the perpetual traffic nightmares, at least in relieving myself of the cars and settling on a conveniently located modern mixed use development. 

[joeyg]

1 hour ago, 55Jay said:

2 minutes ago, HoboKay said:

 

I'll echo the minimalist approach, which I found surprisingly easy to achieve since relocating to Bangkok.

 

Perhaps there is some good to the perpetual traffic nightmares, at least in relieving myself of the cars and settling on a conveniently located modern mixed use development. 

I would like to have a "bike here" but I don't have the "balls" to ride one.  Quite frankly, crossing the street is the most dangerous part of life for me in Thailand.

[Bob9]

Read first and last pages - seems to be most agree with the OP. 

 

Gotta agree overall - but have been here long enough to have lost those rose coloured glasses. Yes - the best thing about Thailand is the people. But I wouldn't agree about some young Thai males. The food and prices of most things is fantastic. But the weather is oppressive and the rain is incessant (this year).  The ability to be accountable for myself and my actions, and not to be oppressed by a 'nanny state' telling me what I can and cannot do, and what I must agree with and not agree with, is priceless.  

 

The biggest problem I have here is some Expats. I have found that most Expats with a Thai lady/family are happy and reasonable. But I have no time at all for those who are just exploiting the Thai women. Nor do I have time for those who are bitter and twisted, either because they got 'bitten' by a Thai lady (mostly deserved), or they have just become that way (alcohol, drugs etc etc).  Unfortunately there are more of the 'troubled' Expats here, than there are the happy ones - and they make it difficult for the rest of us.

 

Thailand is not nirvana/utopia - but I am old enough to know that no such place exists.  If only I could take the culture of Thailand and its people to a land with a better climate :)

 

 

[amykat]

18 hours ago, nemrut said:

 

You're kidding right?  That accounts for tiny percentage of the population.  

 

It's easy to be magnanimous when one is well fed, has a roof over their head and are able to easily satisfy other material needs.

 

As for Californians, specifically northern ones in SF Bay area, there are far too many entitled, arrogant and self absorbed people there who care only about themselves and have little regard for others.  Traffic is a mess and road rage occurs quite often from the city to the eastbay, down both I-80 and I-5 corridors.

 

Well that doesn't actually account for a "tiny" portion of the population.  Palo Alto is California's most educated city with 80% of over 25s having at least a bachelor's degree, for example. 

 

And you seem to be contradicting yourself ...so California is the richest state in the country with a per capita GDP of $63K so it is "easy to be magnanimous" you say ...yet you claim people are not.  Yet in Thailand where people are so poor, they are?

 

Then your description of people  ..."entitled, arrogant, self absorbed who only care about themselves" ... have you met many very rich people in BKK who don't fit this description?

 

And traffic and road rage ....you find this situation BETTER in Thailand?  How many machetes have you seen in the road in CA?  I've only had one person truly try to kill me in a road rage incident here because I honked the horn when they almost killed me, and then they really TRIED to kill me, repeatedly ...that never happened  in my many more years in CA and many more miles of driving.  That one is so ridiculous ... unless you just arrived here last week??

 

 

[amykat]

Let me just add ...A German man was murdered nearly outside my front door, when he was first run off the road by a pick up truck ...and he flipped him off.  He then drove up to the traffic light. The truck driver got out of of his truck and walked up to him and shot him to death in front of 50? people ...it is a major intersection.  He did no jail time for that.  Those are my two personal road rage stories ...I wonder what two you have experienced in CA?

[55Jay]

I think my level-headed coolness about Thailand stems from why I/we landed here and also my wife's attitude about it. 

 

Thailand was a practical decision, not a lifelong goal or a new, exotic adventure.  I've been living/working/traveling outside the US almost all my adult life and just don't get the "Wow" thing anymore.  I've got nothing in the US, so we needed an address to ship all our stuff to.  I can stay here on visa extensions and we can live quite comfortably on just the military pension, without needing to work or,  more importantly, without tapping cash reserves and investments.  And so when I pulled the plug on the post-military work, here we are.

 

My wife is Thai but she wasn't thrilled about moving here.  She has a healthy dislike for some of the quirky aspects of "Thainess" and dysfunctional aspects of Thailand, many of which are vented here on TVF in color terms and a nod to the OP's whole point of this thread - over and over and over again.   I often joke that when the time comes to break suction from here, my Mrs. will probably beat me to the airport. 

 

In the meantime though, we try to enjoy where we are best we can.  Travel around, made some friends, have a laugh and some good times.  I like it alright here, it's OK, but it doesn't have what I really REALLY like and want.  I'm starting to wake up to the fact that I've got it all a$$ backwards.

 

Funny thing, last summer in San Diego, one of my old school mates bought a 37' boat.  I  volunteered to help him shift the boat from San Diego Harbor up to his slip in Oceanside.  It was a perfect Southern California day with cool, low hanging marine layer that starts burning off around noon, nice easy cruise up the coast, half-heartedly trolling for tuna along the way, just BS'ing and catching up as a pod of porpoise swooped in to ride our bow wave, saw a gray whale along the way.  I was on Cloud 9.  This is the life!  But my mate was all over me about living in Thailand.  He said, "Dude! You're livin' the dream, man!".  I looked around, then back to him and said, "No, dude, YOU are!"

[impulse]

4 hours ago, joeyg said:

My last home was 4 bed 3 bath in a very nice location in So Cal.  Had 2 cars, one truck and one motorcycle.  I'm happy to have liquidated everything and living a "minimalistic" life style in a very nice high rise condo near  Wongamat Beach... 

 

But here's the thing.  You could have gone minimalist within 50 miles of your place in SoCal, and reaped the same benefits of economy.    Big Bear, Arrowhead, Apple Valley, the desert around San Diego, they all have their charm.  (And crucially for me, lots less mold and mildew)  On a winter day, you can surf in the morning, cross a 100 degree desert, snow ski in the afternoon and sit on a pier eating a Ruby's hamburger in the evenings.  I've done it.  Many times.  Try that in Thailand.  Kid's (or grandkid's) birthday or graduation?  That's a 60 hour round trip from Thailand.

 

Had you been willing to relocate to another state, you could go minimalist at half again the cost in SoCal.  Arizona, N Mexico, Texas, (God forbid) Florida, and hundreds of other places within a 2 hour plane ride of family.  Even Yucatan puts you within the range of a long weekend.

 

That's a whole lot more appealing to me than retiring to Thailand, though I have truly enjoyed my time working here.  Again, my main complaints are the health effects of humidity and everything that grows in the humidity (and courses through the ventilation systems) with poor maintenance.

 

Edit:  And one last comment.  I miss getting behind the wheel and driving 500-1000 miles at a go.  With or without hotel stops.  I bought a van I could sleep in because I loved driving so much.  Here in Thailand?  Driving is a white knuckle, unpleasant drudge where I have more close calls with death in a weekend jaunt than in any given year back home.  Probably the thing that bothers me the most here.  I love traveling, especially seeing the sites from the road and I just don't do it- because I don't enjoy it when I do.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by impulse

[Laza 45]

21 hours ago, JAFO said:

 

Honestly I am not trying to "Love" Thailand Amykat. I definitely like being here along with my options and a host of other things. I know to many it may appear that I post like I am trying to convince myself. That is not it at all. I post what I do because I am genuinely happy person and I will continue to offer another side of life here to the ones that hate it. Funny how we don't refute others saying they hate it. So if they hate its OK and they are not trying to convince themselves of it? But like it here and live a easy wonderful life that just can't be possible, one must be delusional and full of crap. As I have said many many times on this site in other posts, Thailand isn't perfect nor is the US but life here is simply far better. Its really as simple as that. Its not complicated. I do not have a hidden agenda.

 

But to your point about pushing the US under the bus, I admit I had grown completely tired of the entitled people. It wasn't California specifically. I traveled a lot for business. I met rude pushy obnoxious people every single day. A good number would stomp on their friends if it meant they could get ahead of them. Sure I had my circle of friends that didn't behave like that (Most of the time) but good friends are hard to find. Yes there are good people in the US. Yes not all are bad. 

 

Below is a small clip from Lewis Black. The first 2- 3 minutes are true and funny. I was at this show and couldn't stop laughing. 

 

 Life is good no matter how you can make it work. The great thing is having choices. For that I am very thankful.

 

 

Well said.. people have choices... unfortunately many make bad ones or are afraid to make the choices that could change their life... so they keep going round and round in circles.. often blaming others for their misery..  I like it here too.. yes.. there are challenges... bad driving.. a bad attitude to garbage are a couple of things that irk me ... but I'm 71 years old.. people generally treat me with respect... I enjoy learning about the culture and history of SE Asia.. I enjoy learning a bit of the language.. my pension goes much further than it would in Australia.. I have a great family and friends.. I like the food..   The video is spot on!  I've travelled a lot and always seem to come across Americans that complain that things aren't the same as back home!!  

[geriatrickid]

9 hours ago, Berkshire said:

 

Well that's one point-of-view.  You're certainly entitled to it.  And I don't doubt that this is how it is for you in Thailand.  I believe you.  But to insists that it "must" be like this for the rest of us....let's just say I respectfully disagree. 

 

 

I hope you never encounter a situation where you experience first hand the inconsistencies of Thai law and the difficulties of the judicial process. Large multinationals have the financial clout and connections to  deal with such issues, but the typical foreigner does not. The concept of  contractual obligations and transactional integrity truly are foreign concepts  to Thailand. If you ever get to a point where you run a large company  or have assets at risk, you may understand my point. Ever wonder why the laws in respect to bribery and corruption are neither as stringent, nor as enforced as they are in the west?

 

I read the comments and they come from people who approach this from their perspective as elderly males living on their pensions. Yes, it may work for them and  that's  wonderful. Really it is. However, for the rest of society is not wonderful.

 

Some people live in a delusional bubble and it works for them. They are detached from the core group in Thailand who control society. The rainmakers. This isn't about me as I am an outsider looking in. If anything, I give thanks everyday that i am fortunate to have the parents, the social status, the education and the  job I do because it opens doors for me and makes my life so much easier. That does not mean that I cannot appreciate or understand the concerns many foreigners have. I see how difficult it is for some foreigners and I see  what happens when they are ripped off and  do not have the resources to defend themselves. Yes, Thailand is fantastic for some. This does not make it a good choice for others. This country is not for young creative professionals. It is not for those who wish to pursue scientific development. I do not dispute that Thailand  may be  a good option for a  70 year old male living on a pension. 

[JAFO]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

But here's the thing.  You could have gone minimalist within 50 miles of your place in SoCal, and reaped the same benefits of economy.    Big Bear, Arrowhead, Apple Valley, the desert around San Diego, they all have their charm.  (And crucially for me, lots less mold and mildew)  On a winter day, you can surf in the morning, cross a 100 degree desert, snow ski in the afternoon and sit on a pier eating a Ruby's hamburger in the evenings.  I've done it.  Many times.  Try that in Thailand.  Kid's (or grandkid's) birthday or graduation?  That's a 60 hour round trip from Thailand.

 

Had you been willing to relocate to another state, you could go minimalist at half again the cost in SoCal.  Arizona, N Mexico, Texas, (God forbid) Florida, and hundreds of other places within a 2 hour plane ride of family.  Even Yucatan puts you within the range of a long weekend.

 

That's a whole lot more appealing to me than retiring to Thailand, though I have truly enjoyed my time working here.  Again, my main complaints are the health effects of humidity and everything that grows in the humidity (and courses through the ventilation systems) with poor maintenance.

 

Edit:  And one last comment.  I miss getting behind the wheel and driving 500-1000 miles at a go.  With or without hotel stops.  I bought a van I could sleep in because I loved driving so much.  Here in Thailand?  Driving is a white knuckle, unpleasant drudge where I have more close calls with death in a weekend jaunt than in any given year back home.  Probably the thing that bothers me the most here.  I love traveling, especially seeing the sites from the road and I just don't do it- because I don't enjoy it when I do.

 

 

 

You know impulse you are right. You can move all over and live like a minimalist however there is a huge stigma in the US that is hard to overcome. If you live like that people quickly judge you. You are deemed a loser or failure etc. Sure you can try the "Water off a ducks back" approach but it just doesn't work. Its the behavior of the people in the US. My wife and I had a very lengthy discussion about moving elsewhere within the US. We did a drive to Nevada. We went to Oregon. On a trip back east we looked around as well for fun. While it may not make sense to you, none of it appealed to us. Now in fairness, I can live anywhere as I adapt easily. My wife was not excited about remote areas. She wouldn't feel comfortable and likely feel trapped and most of those areas are not very nice to live (Personal expectations of course). I completely understood her POV. She would have moved out there with me no argument, but she would not have been happy. Now mind you as an exec in the California at the time I could have lived in Silicon Valley(but would have had to want to continue to work long hours). When she saw the mortgage, property tax, homeowners ins etc she said "Do you know how well we can live in Thailand for that money?"

 

Bottom-line, I felt her angst and looking at the financial aspects of it all Thailand was our answer. There is no way I could be debt free in the US. Its just not how it works. The bank would own our house for 20-30 years. I have this all in spreadsheet and the numbers are really staggering.

 

But this all boils down to the individual and what people want and need. My quality in life at this juncture is better than it has been in the last 15 years. Yes I work in Thailand currently but you know whats nice? I can walk away tomorrow. Try that in the US. 

[nemrut]

5 hours ago, amykat said:

 

Well that doesn't actually account for a "tiny" portion of the population.  Palo Alto is California's most educated city with 80% of over 25s having at least a bachelor's degree, for example. 

 

And you seem to be contradicting yourself ...so California is the richest state in the country with a per capita GDP of $63K so it is "easy to be magnanimous" you say ...yet you claim people are not.  Yet in Thailand where people are so poor, they are?

 

Then your description of people  ..."entitled, arrogant, self absorbed who only care about themselves" ... have you met many very rich people in BKK who don't fit this description?

 

And traffic and road rage ....you find this situation BETTER in Thailand?  How many machetes have you seen in the road in CA?  I've only had one person truly try to kill me in a road rage incident here because I honked the horn when they almost killed me, and then they really TRIED to kill me, repeatedly ...that never happened  in my many more years in CA and many more miles of driving.  That one is so ridiculous ... unless you just arrived here last week??

3

 

 

CA is a huge state, and by itself, is the 5-6th largest economy in the world.  Yes, it has more millionaires than any other state, but the wealthy are still tiny part of the total CA population.  

 

If youre from CA you would know $60k doesnt go very far especially in much of the Bay Area where rental/housing prices have skyrocketed.

 

Communities like Palo Alto, Atherton, Portola, Belvedere, etc are enclaves for the wealthy.   Palo Alto appears to be normal middleclass neighborhood but in reality houses start at $2-5m for 1-2bdrm run down fixer uppers.

 

In terms of rich in US vs Thailand, one has roots in Christian values vs Buddhist values..take your pick.

 

As for road rage, it is much more prevalent in the US along with UK/AUS/RUS than anywhere else in the world.  You only have read the news, google, youtube to see the evidence.  There are more shootings due to road rage in US by far than any in Thailand.
 

[joeyg]

5 hours ago, 55Jay said:

I think my level-headed coolness about Thailand stems from why I/we landed here and also my wife's attitude about it. 

 

Thailand was a practical decision, not a lifelong goal or a new, exotic adventure.  I've been living/working/traveling outside the US almost all my adult life and just don't get the "Wow" thing anymore.  I've got nothing in the US, so we needed an address to ship all our stuff to.  I can stay here on visa extensions and we can live quite comfortably on just the military pension, without needing to work or,  more importantly, without tapping cash reserves and investments.  And so when I pulled the plug on the post-military work, here we are.

 

My wife is Thai but she wasn't thrilled about moving here.  She has a healthy dislike for some of the quirky aspects of "Thainess" and dysfunctional aspects of Thailand, many of which are vented here on TVF in color terms and a nod to the OP's whole point of this thread - over and over and over again.   I often joke that when the time comes to break suction from here, my Mrs. will probably beat me to the airport. 

 

In the meantime though, we try to enjoy where we are best we can.  Travel around, made some friends, have a laugh and some good times.  I like it alright here, it's OK, but it doesn't have what I really REALLY like and want.  I'm starting to wake up to the fact that I've got it all a$$ backwards.

 

Funny thing, last summer in San Diego, one of my old school mates bought a 37' boat.  I  volunteered to help him shift the boat from San Diego Harbor up to his slip in Oceanside.  It was a perfect Southern California day with cool, low hanging marine layer that starts burning off around noon, nice easy cruise up the coast, half-heartedly trolling for tuna along the way, just BS'ing and catching up as a pod of porpoise swooped in to ride our bow wave, saw a gray whale along the way.  I was on Cloud 9.  This is the life!  But my mate was all over me about living in Thailand.  He said, "Dude! You're livin' the dream, man!".  I looked around, then back to him and said, "No, dude, YOU are!"

My last 30 years were in San Diego.. Tough place to leave but here I am

 

[SoiBiker]

10 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Kind of like a woman at an all male college is happy?

 

If there was a woman there, it wouldn't be an all-male college.

[212Roger]

On 9/22/2016 at 10:00 AM, nemrut said:

 

You're kidding right?  That accounts for tiny percentage of the population.  

 

It's easy to be magnanimous when one is well fed, has a roof over their head and are able to easily satisfy other material needs.

 

As for Californians, specifically northern ones in SF Bay area, there are far too many entitled, arrogant and self absorbed people there who care only about themselves and have little regard for others.  Traffic is a mess and road rage occurs quite often from the city to the eastbay, down both I-80 and I-5 corridors.

Let me take a wild guess, would that be Oakland?  Or as we say "Oaktown."

[impulse]

6 hours ago, SoiBiker said:

 

If there was a woman there, it wouldn't be an all-male college.

 

Never met the Dean's daughter?

[55Jay]

8 hours ago, joeyg said:

My last 30 years were in San Diego.. Tough place to leave but here I am

 

Guess I was just blathering on a bit about my own situation and how it influences my practical, somewhat indifferent outlook on Thailand, and other places like it that star struck newbies might refer to as "Paradise".   I wasn't inferring you were the later, you're not bubbling over, you just really like it here.  And that's great!   

[joeyg]

14 hours ago, 55Jay said:

I think my level-headed coolness about Thailand stems from why I/we landed here and also my wife's attitude about it. 

 

Thailand was a practical decision, not a lifelong goal or a new, exotic adventure.  I've been living/working/traveling outside the US almost all my adult life and just don't get the "Wow" thing anymore.  I've got nothing in the US, so we needed an address to ship all our stuff to.  I can stay here on visa extensions and we can live quite comfortably on just the military pension, without needing to work or,  more importantly, without tapping cash reserves and investments.  And so when I pulled the plug on the post-military work, here we are.

 

My wife is Thai but she wasn't thrilled about moving here.  She has a healthy dislike for some of the quirky aspects of "Thainess" and dysfunctional aspects of Thailand, many of which are vented here on TVF in color terms and a nod to the OP's whole point of this thread - over and over and over again.   I often joke that when the time comes to break suction from here, my Mrs. will probably beat me to the airport. 

 

In the meantime though, we try to enjoy where we are best we can.  Travel around, made some friends, have a laugh and some good times.  I like it alright here, it's OK, but it doesn't have what I really REALLY like and want.  I'm starting to wake up to the fact that I've got it all a$$ backwards.

 

Funny thing, last summer in San Diego, one of my old school mates bought a 37' boat.  I  volunteered to help him shift the boat from San Diego Harbor up to his slip in Oceanside.  It was a perfect Southern California day with cool, low hanging marine layer that starts burning off around noon, nice easy cruise up the coast, half-heartedly trolling for tuna along the way, just BS'ing and catching up as a pod of porpoise swooped in to ride our bow wave, saw a gray whale along the way.  I was on Cloud 9.  This is the life!  But my mate was all over me about living in Thailand.  He said, "Dude! You're livin' the dream, man!".  I looked around, then back to him and said, "No, dude, YOU are!"

My last 30 years were in San Diego.. Tough place to leave but here I am.

 

15 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Guess I was just blathering on a bit about my own situation and how it influences my practical, somewhat indifferent outlook on Thailand, and other places like it that star struck newbies might refer to as "Paradise".   I wasn't inferring you were the later, you're not bubbling over, you just really like it here.  And that's great!   

No Offense taken...

[joeyg]

9 hours ago, nemrut said:

 

CA is a huge state, and by itself, is the 5-6th largest economy in the world.  Yes, it has more millionaires than any other state, but the wealthy are still tiny part of the total CA population.  

 

If youre from CA you would know $60k doesnt go very far especially in much of the Bay Area where rental/housing prices have skyrocketed.

 

Communities like Palo Alto, Atherton, Portola, Belvedere, etc are enclaves for the wealthy.   Palo Alto appears to be normal middleclass neighborhood but in reality houses start at $2-5m for 1-2bdrm run down fixer uppers.

 

In terms of rich in US vs Thailand, one has roots in Christian values vs Buddhist values..take your pick.

 

As for road rage, it is much more prevalent in the US along with UK/AUS/RUS than anywhere else in the world.  You only have read the news, google, youtube to see the evidence.  There are more shootings due to road rage in US by far than any in Thailand.
 

Lived there for  3 years, in the bay Area from 72 to 75,  then again in So Cal for 30 years up until a couple of years ago.  Had a couple close calls with idiots on the road but never stopped to allow it to escalate.  I do remember when there was "no traffic" on the 5, 805, 163 or 52 outside of rush hour.  Much more gun violence in Thailand though... 

 

[Berkshire]

 

14 hours ago, amykat said:

Let me just add ...A German man was murdered nearly outside my front door, when he was first run off the road by a pick up truck ...and he flipped him off.  He then drove up to the traffic light. The truck driver got out of of his truck and walked up to him and shot him to death in front of 50? people ...it is a major intersection.  He did no jail time for that.  Those are my two personal road rage stories ...I wonder what two you have experienced in CA?

 

That happened in Maejo a few years ago, didn't it?  The German guy was on a motorcycle.  Not exactly a common occurrence, but I wouldn't recommend flipping anyone off. 

 

CA is such a big place.  Cities like Stockton or Vallejo are not like SF or Monterey.  But even in San Diego, La Jolla is not the same as Imperial Beach.  Yes, there's crime in Thailand, but some of the stuff in the US is pretty vicious.  There are places, say in LA, that you just don't go.  Like South Central.  Are there any places like that in Chiang Mai? 

[joeyg]

5 hours ago, 212Roger said:

Let me take a wild guess, would that be Oakland?  Or as we say "Oaktown."

I lived in the Bay area from 72 to 75.  First pulled into Alameda Naval Air Station, then discharged from Treasure Island Naval Station.  I live in several different places in the city.  Used to spend a lot of time up in Geyserville, Petaluma and Cloverdale as well as different parts of Marin County.  Those were magical days.  I really liked it.

 

Oakland was always a "no go zone"  It must be better now I guess it couldn't get much worse.   It was to much like where I was born and raised in the "badlands" of Newark, New Jersey.  San Francisco was the favorite of big cities I ever lived in for years.  I used to go up there sometimes for Medical Symposiums years later.  You couldn't pay me to live there now.

 

Also lived in NYC back in the old days.  It was 'Off the hook" fun.  Rio for a couple of years later, it was unbelievable.  Couldn't pay me to live in either of those places again.

 

Right now I'm really liking living in Naklua.  It has a unique "micro climate" cooler, cleaner, quieter and brezzier than nearby Pattaya.  Right on the beach with a 30 bhat boat ride to my favoite beach ay Koh Larn.

 

I really like it.  Maybe someday I'll say you couldn't pay me to live here but I doubt it.