child maintenance

[Stuart G]

I am divorcing my Thai wife.

And she is going back home to Thailand to live with our 4 sons.

How much should I pay child maintenance?

They are aged 7,5,21 months and 4 months.

[sanemax]

Surely you are the best person to judge that ?

Work out their living expenses and that will be the figure that you are looking for

[Stuart G]

They are going to live in a little town.

So the living costs are low,but my ex wife is saying ridiculous amounts.

I said I would pay 25000 a month plus the school term fees.

Yet in a sleepy little town(that I've been to several times over our nearly 9 years together)she says the school cost £1000 per term for each of my school age children.

Which I know is rubbish.

[sanemax]

Why dont you contact the School and ask them how much it costs ?

[Stuart G]

Funnily enough their website doesn't even load.

Hardly the sign of a top school lol.

 

[FritsSikkink]

Depends on which country you will get the divorce and what lawyer she will have.

[Stuart G]

We are getting the quick divorce near her hometown,no lawyers.

I've built a new house which they will live in,so she won't need to rent anywhere.

When we holiday for a month there,we spend about 20000 thb on everything.

So I've started off by offering 25000thb plus I'll pay the school fees.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Stuart G

[AlexRRR]

25,000 in a sleepy village she should be so lucky...but you have spoilt her, stand your ground and forget the school fees... though you could offer to pay the uni fees should the kids want to go....

 

ps you dont need to get divorced unless you want to remarry but why would you?

 

If she blocks the divorce because of your refusal to negotiate your the winner....think about it.

[Stuart G]

AlexRRR

She says she wants 50000 thb a month and that's it.

I've explained that 25000 thb a month is more than reasonable,but she refuses to accept it.

[chiang mai]

Objectively: after 9 years of living to Western standards overseas, it doesn't surprise me that she wants 50k a month. And she's probably right, four children to care for, all things considered she's probably about rights - Thailand is not cheap any more, it can actually be quite expensive at times. Sorry!

[Stuart G]

Not where they live,as I've said earlier she already has a house.

I've built so no need to rent.

And I will pay all school fees,so 25000 every four weeks (13 times a year),

Is more than fair,or we could go to court and she would more than likely get a lot less,as they will be living in a small town.

I'm not trying to be cheap with my kids future.

But I also do not want to be ripped off,as I am paying for my kids wellbeing and not hers.

[MikeyIdea]

Hi Stuart

 

I will be open because that's the only way to advise well, I don't write what I do to be hurtful

 

Yes, she would get much less if you go to court. There is no fixed rule for child maintenance but Thai Juvenile and Family court used to count 100 baht per child per day when I was active a few years ago. How much a mother can get totally depends on who is favoured and court uses it to put pressure on the non-favoured party. I have never heard of a court ordering more than 5,000 baht per child and month in a case like yours. Anything above that would be mutual agreement 

 

Clearly, anything above 20,000 baht per month and you are being ripped off. You don't say which little town they are living in but it doesn't matter, 25,000 with house and school paid is too much also in Bangkok where I live 

 

A few questions: Are you legally married in Thailand? Do you want contact with your children? Visit them? Come to you on holidays? Was the house put in the mothers name and was it done while you were married?

 

A few ground rules

I think that it would be better in the long run to negotiate down monthly payment to a level where you are not ripped off so that you can give the mother 10,000, 20,000 baht when you come over to see the kids without feeling bad. Some money on her birthday, New Year, give some extra money to her parents if they get sick, that kind of thing. Money you send every month will soon be routine and you will hardly even get a thank you. Some extra money when you come could help to make visits a more positive experience, could make you more appreciated in the long run

 

What you are likely to get from someone who is asking for 50,000 baht per month in a small town is more likely to be: I won't let you see the kids if you don't send the 50K per month

 

The starting point in Thai Juvenile law is that parents share education and hospital costs. If a parent accept to take up all the cost, then that's a bonus that you should get something in return for, it should not be done otherwise 

 

School: Never ever pay school fees to the mother. You must pay school by transferring money directly to the school bank account and nothing else - all schools can accommodate this, anything else is a lie unless it's a village school. There are many cases in Thailand where kids are enrolled in the most expensive school in town and moved to a cheap one a month later to allow more money for the extended family. Pay directly to the school and that cannot happen

 

The mother is still young, will she be satisfied sitting in that small town raising her children while she gets old? What will your reaction be if she lets another relative or her parents take care of the children? Will you still pay the same? She will expect you to do that

 

If you pay the school fees directly by bank transfer from abroad, then you will be well met by the principal if you go and see her. You have some power and you will not be denied information even if things turn sour between you and the mother and she talks bad about you (they often do...). You paying the school directly is also a good guarantee that the children will not disappear to another relative (and another school) in the future. Set up a routine that gives you that power now. You won't be able to do it later. The principal will read English and write enough to communicate with you via email

 

House: If the house is in the mothers name, you are legally married and the house was bought / built while you were married, then you are entitled to half of it by law. Thai Juvenile and Family court will acknowledge that also if you signed an agreement at the land office that you have no claim. That paper is used to put pressure on the non-favoured party in court, nothing else

 

Any parent has the right to veto that a Thai child leaves Thailand. The mother can turn around and deny the children to leave Thailand until they reach majority (20 in Thailand) regardless of what she previously has said. You will need the mother to go to the amphur to get the form that she allows the children to leave with you if you want to bring them out or they will be stopped at immigration. Immigration will (most likely) not accept a written agreement between you and the mother.

 

Thai children should help their parents with some money and if they don't then they are bad and disrespectful. This is standard Thai culture and you know that already. It is quite common that children from bad families (note that I write bad and not poor) comes under pressure to provide money, the extended family can become lazy and ask for more and more. The extended family can also easily get bigger and bigger. This applies to children in bad families regardless of they are married to Thai's or Westerners

 

Car: My daughters mother borrowed money on the family car, she hid it by borrowing more than she needed and used the extra money to pay the installments for a year... I refused to pay when she said the car was about to be re-possessed and forced her to transfer the car to my name at the same time as I paid. Point is: If you buy a car and you say it's for the children, then put it in your name. She can do everything with letter of attorney anyway

 

Court:

Don't worry about Thai Juvenile court, they are not be biased against fathers or foreigners. It's your Thai lawyer that you have to worry about. Your Thai lawyer will lose face a lot if you don't accept the mutual agreement that the court wants. That is your worst enemy. If you end up too un-favoured, then just let court order. The appeals court will not be that way and it's less than a year waiting time for sure

 

If you have no evidence, then it never happened if you are the un-favoured party in court

 

The kids are so young, make sure that what you setup now will protect and support you if the mother turns against you or your rights to see the children in the future 

 

Good Luck

Michael

Edited September 26, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[MikeyIdea]

Clarification:

Point is: If you buy a car and you say it's for the children, then put it in your name. She can do everything with letter of attorney anyway

 

She can do everything in regards to keeping the car on the road anyway (pay insurance, tax, service..). She will need a letter of attorney with your signature on to be able to sell it, the same apply to borrow money on it

 

The most famous company in Thailand that let people borrow money on cars is called เงินติดล้อ "Money sticking to the wheels"...

 

[MikeyIdea]

20 hours ago, Stuart G said:

We are getting the quick divorce near her hometown,no lawyers.

 

 

Wow, I just realized I missed something... sorry

 

Please read carefully, I promise you that I am not making this up

One member on ThaiVisa agreed with his trusted wife that they would share custody of their children after the divorce, she did the talking at the amphur and confirmed that everything was as they had agreed and even read him the document that he then signed.

 

One day soon after that the police helped the mother to take the children away from him and they were laughing at him when he showed them the amphur divorce form which he thought gave him equal right. He had in fact signed away sole custody to the mother and he stood there crying when they left

 

This one and several other similar sad stories was what made me stop interpreting in Juvenile court. It hurt too much

 

If you do this at the amphur, bring a lawyer that the mother meets the first time at the amphur!

 

[Stuart G]

MikeyIdea thankyou very much for your advice.

I don't mind paying 25000 thb a month as I want to guarantee they are okay.

The house even though I paid for it is in her name,but it wasn't that much anyway.

And if my kids are housed I'm happy with the loss.

I definitely need a lawyer to oversee any agreements over funds and visiting rights(a Thai lawyer).

[MikeyIdea]

I am happy to hear that you are not resentful, see the positive in things and think about the best for the kids. You have a good opportunity to get some "best for the kids future" long term controls into the divorce agreement

 

It's standard practice that if you are un-favoured somehow, then the court / lawyer may tell you that whatever XX you want can't be done but if you refuse to accept mutual agreement (which court/lawyer always want in Thailand) and say, OK, order then... then whatever XX can suddenly be done... It's really irritating

 

I add a couple of snippets of court agreements that show that some useful things actually are possible in case you get this treatment. They're from court orders so some words must be changed (plaintiff (โจทก์ ) and defendant (จำเลย) is used in court while an agreement at the amphur simply would use husband wife or mother father etc.) but the law is the same of course. I "translate Thai" so the English sounds a bit funny 

 

1) Mother father agree to share custody (ผู้ปกครอง) of children together

 

2) Husband wife agree to share marriage assets this way

2.1) "Full address of property" agree to be asset (the right) of wife only 

How assets are split should be in. You acknowledge that you know you have right to half of the property but agree to give all to the mother. You and the mother can agree to transfer land to children (can be done if no debt as you can't give responsibility to minors) but that is maybe to complicate things too much

 

3) Mother father agree that;

3.1) in case that mother takes care of child, father will pay 6,250 baht per child per month

3.2) in case that someone else takes care of the child, father will pay 3,750 baht per child per month

3.3) in case that mother not give father right see children, father does not have to pay

, until children reach majority

Mothers in Thailand do generally not feel that they are doing anything wrong if they let their parents (or perhaps even other relatives too) take care of their children instead. You are happy to be a bit generous with child support, if you specifically want the mother to take care of the children, then you can reward her if she does

 

I don't have a sample of education that fits. This should do:

4) Mother father agree that;

4.1) in case mother father agree school, father pays education costs for the children

4.2) in case mother father not agree school, mother father share education cost

, until children reach majority

4.1 is a tough one but you can just leave education out totally if you don't get it, mother father share education cost is the default status with shared custody :) And you will pay anyway

 

5) Mother father agree share hospital costs

 

It would be good if you and the mother could agree and put in rules for the children leaving Thailand in the future too

 

Nothing ever goes 100% according to plan in Thailand :)

 

Good Luck

MikeyIdea

 

 

Edited September 28, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[manfredtillmann]

this can eat you up, mate.

you agree to pay thb 25000 every 4 weeks for school fees PLUS thb 25000/ month for the wife?

you need to step back and talk to someone else - not us dicks here on the forum.

school fees are nothing like this unless her / your kids go somewhere extraordinary. and she is responsible for her own life support, just because you married her at some stage does not mean you forever own her. if you did, you could tell her to get her act together.

 

as there are no laws governing what your obligations are (unlike they certainly are in australia!!!), i suggest you step back for a week or two, let your mind settle and decide what seems to be right - to YOU.

 

without prejudice, my living expenses in issan with two boys in school and two houses i am renting is thb 30k. that takes care of ALL their needs.

[yogi100]

A break up can be very distressing for all concerned especially when children are concerned. Full marks to Mickey for taking the time and trouble to try and point Stuart in the right direction.

 

A pal of mine has split from his Thai wife in London. The family law industry went into top gear and all the greedy solicitors and jobsworth social workers got involved and my poor chum has only seen his two little girls twice in nearly two years. He's no angel but the lies she has told about him are outrageous.

 

At least fathers can expect a fair crack of the whip in Thailand.

[MikeyIdea]

Hi Again,

 

Regarding paying school 13 times per year in post 11. School fees are always paid per term, not per month

[Odin Norway]

Childsupport as I know is set in Thailand.I have seen 6500 a month as max pr child some place online.Mine was not realy planed so I have looked it up.I have a 10 month myself and the smal ones cost more then then they do from 2 year and up.At least 5K only for dipers and food.And that is not the most expensive childfood you can buy.20 to 25K a month is not far of.Forget about school-fees and all the other.Thats it.Forget 50K

[MikeyIdea]

There is nothing in Thai Juvenile law about that child support should support diapers and expensive child food, if the mother wants to use that when it is her time to have the child, then she must pay herself

[Odin Norway]

26 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:

There is nothing in Thai Juvenile law about that child support should support diapers and expensive child food, if the mother wants to use that when it is her time to have the child, then she must pay herself

Who said what it was for?Should not need to analyse the word support.I think you agree that its ment to support the child .And under 2 years ,dipers and food is most of the expence.

[MikeyIdea]

10 minutes ago, Odin Norway said:

Who said what it was for?Should not need to analyse the word support.I think you agree that its ment to support the child .And under 2 years ,dipers and food is most of the expence.

 

I was just informing you that what a mother is entitled to in Thailand does not include enough money for expensive child food and diapers, sorry if I mis-understood you and you already knew this

 

 

 

 

[Odin Norway]

1 hour ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

I was just informing you that what a mother is entitled to in Thailand does not include enough money for expensive child food and diapers, sorry if I mis-understood you and you already knew this

 

 

 

 

Yea.Kids are much more expencive then grownups.The thai so called support is in some eyes high with 6500 or even 5000 as said in here.From my point of view it is also high.My point is that the fathers or in most cases it is him that pay the support.He should not pay all the expences when its not only his kids.It should be more or less half of the expence.AT least when the mom fight so hard to get the kids she should take half of the expence.