Swiss approve new surveillance law

[webfact]

Swiss vote to grant new powers to intelligence services 
JAMEY KEATEN, Associated Press

 

GENEVA (AP) — Swiss voters granted new powers Sunday to the country's intelligence services, allowing them to track internet activity, snoop on email and tap phones to better fight spies, criminal hackers and violent extremists.

 

A majority of 65.5 percent voted for the new law in the national referendum, Swiss media reported.

 

Under it, the Federal Intelligence Service and other authorities will be allowed to tap phones, infiltrate email and deploy hidden cameras and microphones to monitor suspects who are deemed a clear threat — but only if authorized by the federal administrative tribunal and oversight counselors.

 

Until now, Swiss authorities had been barred from using anything more than publicly available information or tips from foreign officials when monitoring threats inside the country.

 

Proponents said the law was needed to help Switzerland catch up with other countries that have stronger legal arsenals to counter cyber-crime or extremist attacks. Opponents say it will deplete civil liberties, do little to truly impede terrorism and chip away at Switzerland's long-vaunted neutrality.

 

-- © Associated Press 2016-09-26

[Hayduke]

Brings to mind that observation about trading freedom for security....and eventually losing both.

[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, Hayduke said:

Brings to mind that observation about trading freedom for security....and eventually losing both.

I know many get really worked up over this, but for me, I've got nothing to hide.  If doing this helps stop just one terrorist event that saves lives, then it's worth it.

 

But yes, there's a fine line that should not be crossed.

[maoro2013]

All very well unless other laws get tightened and the vote was based on the current situation.

 

Once in place it is very unlikely to ever be reversed.

[canuckamuck]

The  government issued, security cameras, for homes and businesses are not far away now. Keeping you safe even when you are on the bog.

[Baerboxer]

Does this include those somewhat secretive Swiss banks?

[BuaBS]

Well then spy on the 65.5 percent that approve of it and leave the others alone.

 

 

[dieseldave1951]

1 hour ago, maoro2013 said:

All very well unless other laws get tightened and the vote was based on the current situation.

 

Once in place it is very unlikely to ever be reversed.

and you think it hasen't been used already 

[craigt3365]

5 minutes ago, BuaBS said:

Well then spy on the 65.5 percent that approve of it and leave the others alone.

Sadly, the 35.5% who voted no might have something to hide.  Thus, the NO vote?

[NCC1701A]

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Or, those who would not give up a little bit of liberty, to purchase some safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

[ClutchClark]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

allowing them to track internet activity, snoop on email and tap phones

 

4 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

 

Since when is using the internet, sending an email or conversing on a phone an essential liberty?

 

These are each modern conveniences but using any of them is no guarantee of privacy. The person on the other end has always had an opportunity to record the phone call or forward the email and expose them to the public. 

 

 

[williamgeorgeallen]

2 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

I know many get really worked up over this, but for me, I've got nothing to hide.  If doing this helps stop just one terrorist event that saves lives, then it's worth it.

 

But yes, there's a fine line that should not be crossed.

seems to be a grey area not a defined line. tricky.

[manarak]

Clearly, intelligence and counterterrorism agencies' broader surveillance powers should never be used for the purpose of law enforcement.

Edited September 26, 2016 by manarak

[ClutchClark]

12 minutes ago, manarak said:

Clearly, intelligence and counterterrorism agencies' broader surveillance powers should never be used for the purpose of law enforcement.

 

The technology is the same, isn't it?

[Tallagada]

1 hour ago, ClutchClark said:

 

 

Since when is using the internet, sending an email or conversing on a phone an essential liberty?

 

These are each modern conveniences but using any of them is no guarantee of privacy. The person on the other end has always had an opportunity to record the phone call or forward the email and expose them to the public. 

 

 

YOu can say the same for EVERY conversation of any kind (letters, email, phone, discussion in private or public space.

It is quite amusing to see those kind of support when people live in a country like Thailand where we can clearly see the abuses of such laws.

Who tell you a government will not use those kind of powers to gag the opposition, the "bad thinkers" ?...

 

[ClutchClark]

Just now, Tallagada said:

YOu can say the same for EVERY conversation of any kind (letters, email, phone, discussion in private or public space.

It is quite amusing to see those kind of support when people live in a country like Thailand where we can clearly see the abuses of such laws.

Who tell you a government will not use those kind of powers to gag the opposition, the "bad thinkers" ?...

 

 

The article indicted a court order is necessary to perform the search. 

 

Thailand has a broken justice system and abuses of all types are rampant; however, first world countries such as Switzerland have a functioning Judicial Branch which prosecutes abuses of authority as you mentioned. 

 

Bottom line, in todays world of electronics, one must expect that every word uttered or scribbled or typed and every breath taken can easily be captured by video or hacker and posted all over the internet. 

 

The actions of investigators are limited by Law and by the Courts and privacy issues will be respected far more than by a hacker.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

Anyone that believes ANYTHING they write or say on electronic media is not available to read in an office in the USA and possibly every western country, is seriously deluded.

That horse left the stable long ago.

[craigt3365]

Especially true when rogue nations support hacking such as this:

 

http://tech.thaivisa.com/yahoo-hack-steals-personal-info-from-at-least-500m-accounts/17636/

[manarak]

31 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

The technology is the same, isn't it?

 

yes and no...

I can clearly imagine intelligence agencies owning the surveillance infrastructure and civilian law enforcement being allowed to instruct intelligence services to add surveillance on precisely defined targets, with the requirement of producing a court warrant that designates one or more precisely defined targets.

Edited September 26, 2016 by manarak

[elgordo38]

4 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

I know many get really worked up over this, but for me, I've got nothing to hide.  If doing this helps stop just one terrorist event that saves lives, then it's worth it.

 

But yes, there's a fine line that should not be crossed.

To late I think its already crossed and we have been double crossed. Its great to see at least that the Swiss people had a say in the matter usually the fat cats in government push it through without any voice from the people. 

[Krataiboy]

4 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

I know many get really worked up over this, but for me, I've got nothing to hide.  If doing this helps stop just one terrorist event that saves lives, then it's worth it.

 

But yes, there's a fine line that should not be crossed.

 

 

We ALL have something to hide. Think about it.

[craigt3365]

5 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

 

We ALL have something to hide. Think about it.

Nothing that's really important, that's for sure.  No biggie.

 

With this surveillance, I doubt the findings would be published on the internet.  If the government knows a few of my "secrets", that's OK.  They don't break any laws.  And they won't be made public.  Unless Julian Assange gets involved!

[wwest5829]

2 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

 

Since when is using the internet, sending an email or conversing on a phone an essential liberty?

 

These are each modern conveniences but using any of them is no guarantee of privacy. The person on the other end has always had an opportunity to record the phone call or forward the email and expose them to the public. 

 

 

Certainly, I do not speak for all nationalities. However, in the U.S. the "tipping point" for me is ni the particulars of a warrant being issued by an independent court (not a "special: NSA court, for example). There is a very real threat but I do not surrender my US rights under the 4th Amendment to the Constitution without demonstrated just cause.

 

The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides, "[t]he right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly ...

[BuaBS]

I guess swissmail.org & Protonmail from Switzerland won't be "secure" anymore , as if they ever were...
3 years after Snowdon , and we're still not more secure. Sure some more pay software with backdoors.
Computers are an extension of our inadequate human brain and what's inside my brain is still private . If you don't have anything to hide ... you're not living right.
Not only is software spying on us ( win10) , but read about Intel's Active Management Technology (AMT). Intels back door , or frontdoor , baked in to your new processor (Kaby lake). Taking over our computer becomes easier & easier , and now even by the Swiss. ( I'm still on Yonah ...)

 

[Grouse]

Just use decent encryption if you are concerned.

 

Actually, it's the metadata that's of most interest.

 

Nobody cares which porn sites you visit though....

[Enoon]

The great thing about the Swiss system is that the people who voted to allow this (it was the people) can vote it out again next year if they wish:

"The new surveillance law was passed last year but has not yet been enacted after opponents collected enough signatures to force a referendum under Switzerland's system of direct democracy."

 

It will now be enacted.

 

By the same system the people may choose to remove the law.

 

It also means that the only way that the system can be changed is if the people choose/agree to do so.

 

Popular initiative (Switzerland) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

They can also "rethink" this:

"Swiss voters also rejected a proposal to boost state pensions by 10% - an initiative supported by the left but considered too costly by opponents. Voters also rejected another initiative to reduce Switzerland's ecological footprint."

 

Or not.  It really is "up to them".

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2016 by Enoon

[nausea]

The shape of things to come. George Orwell's 1984 is already upon us. Is the cure worse than the disease? And who decides what's right thinking? No easy answers.

[Basil B]

Loo-Cams??? 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2016 by Basil B

[ClutchClark]

2 minutes ago, nausea said:

The shape of things to come. George Orwell's 1984 is already upon us. Is the cure worse than the disease? And who decides what's right thinking? No easy answers.

 

Hmmm....is the cure worse than the disease? 

 

Lets see on the one hand we have the risk a court will allow a wiretap on my phone or review my emails and on the other hand we have terrorist events such as 9/11 and  random acts of violence in the name of Islam. 

 

Personally, I far prefer a law enforcement agency have access to my boring conversations about great-grandkids, fishing & hunting stories, cattle and grain prices and bowel movements. 

 

But to each their own.