Need A Sample 30x30 Land Lease Doc

[kurtgruen]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone would be willing to send me a sample 30x30 year land lease agreement. We just purchased about a Rai of land I am planning to build our dreamhouse on it. I want to make sure that I will be protected, in case anything happened to my wife. So we want to do a lease agreement for 30 years, with a 30 year renewal option and register it against the Chanot.

We heard that this is possible at the land office, without paying for expensive lawyers. Can anyone give us suggestions?

Where to obtain a sample lease to start from?...

What about property value/lease value declaration?...

Any hints on how to go about it?

If we do decide to consult a lawyer, what are the costs involved? Any recommendations?

I'm sure this question has come up before, but I couldn't find it, so I started a new topic

[Sunbelt Asia]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone would be willing to send me a sample 30x30 year land lease agreement. We just purchased about a Rai of land I am planning to build our dreamhouse on it. I want to make sure that I will be protected, in case anything happened to my wife. So we want to do a lease agreement for 30 years, with a 30 year renewal option and register it against the Chanot.

We heard that this is possible at the land office, without paying for expensive lawyers. Can anyone give us suggestions?

Where to obtain a sample lease to start from?...

What about property value/lease value declaration?...

Any hints on how to go about it?

If we do decide to consult a lawyer, what are the costs involved? Any recommendations?

I'm sure this question has come up before, but I couldn't find it, so I started a new topic

I can't tell you how many times a week, we run into folks that thought that lawyers were expensive and did it themselves. Many come to us weeks afterwards because they have been cheated.

If you are going to build your dream house, then make sure you do it right.

Our professional fee for a Thai/English 30 year lease with a renewal option is 9,500 Baht. the clauses in the agreement are the key: what happens on death, renewal, change of ownership laws, penalties.

In addition, you certainly should do at the minimum a title deed search. Our fee for this 6,500 Baht.

At the end of the day, its a few baht compared to your investment. It pays to be safe with good advice.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Buckwheat]

And what about the 30 year renewal option????

[Mobi]

And what about the 30 year renewal option????

quote....Our professional fee for a Thai/English 30 year lease with a renewal option ...unquote

Mind you, from everything I've read on this forum, renewal options ain't worth a lot

[Buckwheat]

And what about the 30 year renewal option????

quote....Our professional fee for a Thai/English 30 year lease with a renewal option ...unquote

Mind you, from everything I've read on this forum, renewal options ain't worth a lot

My point exactly...perhaps the OP should be made aware of that.

Over to you, Sunbelt

[Sunbelt Asia]

Renewal option of 30 years is allowed by the Civil Commercial Code. However if the Landlord sells the property in 30 years, the 30 year extension clause does not transfer to the new owner.

The breach of contract claim would be against with the original owner who signed a contract stating that if they transferred the land to another individual or company, they would pay a penalty to the tenant.

We always stress to anyone that employs us, they could end up with only get 30 years. The additional 30 years should be considered a bonus, no matter how strongly worded the contract is. We go on to explain why we prefer a usufruct. With a 30 year lease with option, they are only guaranteed 30 years.

At the end of the day it is the client who is the boss and they go with their choice. The breach of contract penalty clauses could be of course be taken to court and we always explain, the odds are high this will take place. At the end of the day, this clause is better than “worthless” as if you do not state an additional 30 days, for sure you will not get an additional term. At least, you will have your day in court or the landlord will be scared enough not to breach the contract.

If they went to court, I’m sure the lawyer representing them will state that this was a circumvention of the Land act. It was

You rather that the landlord didn't breach the contract because I'm sure if it went to court, the lawyer representing the landlord, will make an argument about the land Act. The lawyer representing the tenant would state the option was allowed under the Civil Commercial Code. It would be for the courts to decide, if the contract was fair.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[chownah]

Sunbelt Asia,

You wrote:

"You rather that the landlord didn't breach the contract because I'm sure if it went to court, the lawyer representing the landlord, will make an argument about the land Act. ........."

If, when the contract is drawn up, the wording for the general framing of the agreement is something like, "The landlord is offering this property for rent under the following terms which the tenenat accepts:..................." , would this then make the landlord the party that had violated the land Act by offering the property at terms which violated it....in effect would this help make a case in court that the landlord is responsible for the legality of the document and thus give the tenant more leverage?

Chownah

[Dragonman]

Sunbelt Asia,

You wrote:

"You rather that the landlord didn't breach the contract because I'm sure if it went to court, the lawyer representing the landlord, will make an argument about the land Act. ........."

If, when the contract is drawn up, the wording for the general framing of the agreement is something like, "The landlord is offering this property for rent under the following terms which the tenenat accepts:..................." , would this then make the landlord the party that had violated the land Act by offering the property at terms which violated it....in effect would this help make a case in court that the landlord is responsible for the legality of the document and thus give the tenant more leverage?

Chownah

Contract Law, particularly in Thailand under the Civil Code, is generally about "fairness of contract". If you have a contract option which provides for a payment for the second 30 years you have a good chance. If it is a sham and you want a 30 year option free, where no rent is to be paid ( this is generally the case with a lease with the missus), the Judge would say "what do you want recompense for, you both signed a contract that gave unfair advantage to one party".

[JimGant]

kurt,

Here's a sample lease: Sample Lease

Such a lease would seem more in order with an 'arm's length' leasing situation, not a simple agreement between husband and wife, where such things as actual rent aren't applicable. But, I guess, if the marriage should head south, having a lease that codifies renewal, rents, subleasing, etc could be in order. However, if you've been happily married for 28 years -- and will be dead when renewal time rolls around -- nothing but the lease registration on the back of the chanot should be needed IMO.

This link's website has some other interesting info -- click on 'leasehold' on the left. I found there this bit of interesting info, particularly since the question of Land Office charges frequently appears on this forum:

It is common that leases are registered at the Land Office for one-fifth of the actual lease price.

Interesting, as this tracks with the amazingly low amount we paid at the Land Office. Since there was no real rent changing hands, we asked the officer what a fair rental figure would be -- and were floored with the figure he arrived at. But, if as a matter of policy they knock 80% off the going rate, it all makes more sense now.

(Sunbelt, does "one-fifth of actual lease price" go along with what you've encountered?)

Sunbelt says:

Our professional fee for a Thai/English 30 year lease with a renewal option is 9,500 Baht. the clauses in the agreement are the key: what happens on death, renewal, change of ownership laws, penalties.

Sunbelt: You've on other threads recommended usufructs over leases -- at least for Thai/farang marriages. How much do you charge for these?

[Nadia 2]

Contract Law, particularly in Thailand under the Civil Code, is generally about "fairness of contract". If you have a contract option which provides for a payment for the second 30 years you have a good chance. If it is a sham and you want a 30 year option free, where no rent is to be paid ( this is generally the case with a lease with the missus), the Judge would say "what do you want recompense for, you both signed a contract that gave unfair advantage to one party".

I agree Dragonman, moreover, a judge would say paying rent is an essential part of a lease agreement (section 537). Rent free would be unenforceable.

After max 30 years the lease will end and you will have to enter into a new lease agreement (your old lease will not continue). Even if a lease price is agreed in the first 30 year lease for the renewal, then the judge will (on request of the lessee or the lessor) assess the market value and say what the lease price must be. This means, should the lessor demand a reasonable lease price for the renewal/ second lease term you will have to pay this irrespective what is agreed in the first lease.

This besides that you can easily lose these options!!

[johnnyk]

The thought of being in a Thai court 30 years down the road when I am really old would scare the hel_l out of me.

[LoveDaBlues]

I'm confused on the need for a 'title deed search'. If the title is the red chanote type then all claims against the property are listed on the chanote. My understanding is the Thai courts only recognize claims against property that are listed on the official chanote that is held at the Land Office. Have I been misled? Anyone?

LDB

[kurtgruen]

kurt,

Here's a sample lease: Sample Lease

Thank you Jim and also thanks to Sunbelt and everyone for the info. Yes, when the time comes of when we start building, we will probalby come and see someone at Sunbelt to do it. The fee sounds reasonable and seems to buy a little more piece of mind.

Thanks again

[kurtgruen]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone would be willing to send me a sample 30x30 year land lease agreement. We just purchased about a Rai of land I am planning to build our dreamhouse on it. I want to make sure that I will be protected, in case anything happened to my wife. So we want to do a lease agreement for 30 years, with a 30 year renewal option and register it against the Chanot.

We heard that this is possible at the land office, without paying for expensive lawyers. Can anyone give us suggestions?

Where to obtain a sample lease to start from?...

What about property value/lease value declaration?...

Any hints on how to go about it?

If we do decide to consult a lawyer, what are the costs involved? Any recommendations?

I'm sure this question has come up before, but I couldn't find it, so I started a new topic

I can't tell you how many times a week, we run into folks that thought that lawyers were expensive and did it themselves. Many come to us weeks afterwards because they have been cheated.

If you are going to build your dream house, then make sure you do it right.

Our professional fee for a Thai/English 30 year lease with a renewal option is 9,500 Baht. the clauses in the agreement are the key: what happens on death, renewal, change of ownership laws, penalties.

In addition, you certainly should do at the minimum a title deed search. Our fee for this 6,500 Baht.

At the end of the day, its a few baht compared to your investment. It pays to be safe with good advice.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

I am interested in getting you to do my 30x30 year lease. We will buy more land in Chiang Dao. We already know the people in the land office from previous purchases, so we want to (and probably have to anyways) have the paperwork done and registered up here.

What is my next step? Maybe you can email me direct from your law office with quotes and things we need to do. This involves properties already bought by my wife over the past month (three #1 Channot titles in all. All ajacant to each other. We want to keep them as three seperate titles. We don't need a title search, just the 30x30 lease. My email is [email protected].

Thanks

Kurt

[kurt88]

I'm new to writing on this blog & I can't find any info on how a usufruct really works. How long can a usufruct be in use? Can it be tranfered to my wife & kids(foreigners)? Is this a better option than a 30X30 Lease?

Thanks

[johnnyk]

Kurt, there is lots written about it.

Do a search.

[backflip]

"30x30" - no!

"30 + 30" - yes!

[kurtgruen]

Kurt, there is lots written about it.

Do a search.

Problem is, that I wanted to get a sample lease in English, but with the corresponding Thai text. I know they have leases at the landoffice, but I have no idea what they say and wonder if they are really "foreigner friendly" or not

[johnnyk]

Kurt, I meant there is a lot of discussion on thaivisa about leases.

Leases can be very different, depending on what the lessor and/or lessee want in the contract.

There is also good info if you check

www.samuiforsale.com