US-Russia relations plummet further over Syria, Ukraine

[webfact]

US-Russia relations plummet further over Syria, Ukraine

By MATTHEW LEE

 

WASHINGTON (AP) — Already testy, relations between the United States and Russia plummeted Monday as Washington suspended diplomatic contacts with Moscow over failed efforts to end the war in Syria and President Vladimir Putin put on hold a deal with the U.S. on disposing weapons-grade plutonium.

 

On the surface, the suspensions were unrelated. But both underscored deep mistrust and rising tensions between the former Cold War foes, who are increasingly at odds on a number of issues, particularly Syria and Ukraine. In the short term, the end of discussions on Syria deals a potential death blow to efforts to slow the civil war and begin negotiations on possible elections in the country that could mean the ouster of President Bashar Assad.

 

Underscoring the deterioration between the U.S. and Russia, Putin suspended a deal on plutonium disposal hours before the U.S. announcement. The two powers will still continue discussions on the Iran nuclear deal, Ukraine and other non-Syria issues.

 

The Russian Foreign Ministry said the U.S. has "done all it could to destroy the atmosphere encouraging cooperation." It cited U.S. sanctions on Moscow over its annexation of the Crimea region of Ukraine and NATO's deployment of forces near Russian borders.

 

U.S. officials said that despite the suspension of talks with Russia, they would continue to work for a truce and aid deliveries to Syria in other gatherings, including the International Syria Support Group, a collection of nations, including Russia.

 

The Obama administration said it decided to cut off discussions on Syria because Russia had not lived up to the terms of last month's agreement to restore a tattered cease-fire and ensure sustained deliveries of humanitarian aid to besieged cities, such as Aleppo, which has been under bombardment from Russian and Syrian forces.

 

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said, "What's clear is that there is nothing more for the United States and Russia to talk about with regard to trying to reach an agreement that would reduce the violence inside of Syria and that's tragic."

 

"This is not a decision that was taken lightly," State Department spokesman John Kirby said in a statement. "Unfortunately, Russia failed to live up to its own commitments ... and was also either unwilling or unable to ensure Syrian regime adherence to the arrangements to which Moscow agreed."

 

Kirby's statement said that Russia and Syria are pursuing military action in violation of the cease-fire agreement, and pointed to their targeting of hospitals as well as the Sept. 19 airstrike on a United Nations humanitarian aid convoy. The U.S. accused Russia of bombing that convoy, a charge both Russia and Syria have denied.

 

Russia intervened on behalf of its close ally Syria on Sept. 30 last year, joining Assad's bombardment of both anti-Assad rebel groups and militant groups such as the Islamic State and Fatah al-Sham Front, an al-Qaida spinoff formerly known as the Nusra Front. Russia is interested in propping up Assad in part because Russia's only naval facility outside the former Soviet Union is on the Syrian coast.

 

If it had been implemented, the cease-fire deal would have created a joint U.S.-Russian center to coordinate military and intelligence operations. President Barack Obama had overruled Pentagon objections to such cooperation and Secretary of State John Kerry made the offer.

 

According to a senior U.S. official, the Pentagon has ordered troops who had been deployed to set up the joint implementation center — fewer than 20 — to return to their bases. The official was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly so spoke on condition of anonymity.

 

The suspension will not affect communications between the two countries aimed at keeping their planes from bumping into each other over Syria.

 

In Moscow, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova voiced regret about the U.S. move and blamed Washington for the failure to persuade the moderate Syrian rebels it backs to cut ties with extremist groups.

 

"And now, after failing to fulfill the agreements they worked out themselves, they are trying to shift the blame," she said.

 

The U.S. had agreed to separate the rebel groups but noted it was an extremely slow process. The U.S. has relatively few personnel on the ground in Syria and even the moderate rebels have said they are frustrated with the pace of U.S. help.

 

Putin's decree on plutonium cited the "emerging threat to strategic stability as a result of U.S. unfriendly actions," as well as Washington's failure to meet its end of the cease-fire deal. It said, however, that Russia will keep the weapons-grade plutonium covered under the agreement away from weapons programs.

 

Under the agreement, which was expanded in 2006 and 2010, Russia and the U.S. each were to dispose of 34 metric tons of plutonium, enough material for about 17,000 nuclear warheads. When it was signed in 2000, the deal was touted as an example of successful cooperation between Washington and Moscow.

___

Associated Press Writer Vladimir Isachenkov in Moscow and Lolita C. Baldor in Washington contributed to this report.

 

-- © Associated Press 2016-10-04

[smedly]

Putin is using Syria to stir the pot.

 

If Russia wasn't involved in Syria there would have been a no fly zone enforced by the US a long time ago

[Stargeezr]

 I think this war will get worse now and many more people in Aleppo will be bombed and killed. Assad is a war criminal in my opinion, and so are many others who help him.    I feel sorry for the innocent children. Shame on Russia  or supporting Assad and bombing Aleppo, Putin is not satisfied with his involvement   in the Ukraine, it seems like he wants the world to dislike him even more. When will this war end? How many more years will ISIL exist?

 

  Will the UN actually help any one in Syria?   The bombing of their convoy was a disgrace and a sign of  the power of the UN, Geezer

[cameraman888]

Putin was lying about stopping the violence there. He wanted to wipe out all the opposition. He's not interested in replacing the dictator in Syria and never was. It was a ploy to put of US support and give Russia more time to use their bombs. 

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, cameraman888 said:

Putin was lying about stopping the violence there. He wanted to wipe out all the opposition. He's not interested in replacing the dictator in Syria and never was. It was a ploy to put of US support and give Russia more time to use their bombs. 

He's lied about a lot of things.  No troops in Crimea,  oops. No troops in Ukraine,  oops. Only bombing IS in Syria,  oops.

 

He's a dangerous dictator in charge of a big military powerhouse.

[Krataiboy]

5 hours ago, smedly said:

Putin is using Syria to stir the pot.

 

If Russia wasn't involved in Syria there would have been a no fly zone enforced by the US a long time ago

 

 

And ISIS running Syria instead of Assad. Does the world really need another Iraq or Libya?

[dunroaming]

Not so long ago Trumpsters on here were praising Putin after Trump's endorsement of him.  I wonder if they are still feeling the same?

[Pakboong]

Most of the honorable soldiers I have known over the course of my life time have shown respect for the poor bastard who found himself on the other side of the fight.

[dunroaming]

22 minutes ago, Pakboong said:

Most of the honorable soldiers I have known over the course of my life time have shown respect for the poor bastard who found himself on the other side of the fight.

 

Thank you for making that clearer.  I take it you have respect for Putin then.  Does that also go for Assad?

 

We are not talking about front line soldiers here.  We are talking about people sitting somewhere very safe and ordering the killing (and gassing) of thousands of innocent people, some of them just flying overhead on a commercial flight.  The soldiers are merely pawns in the game.

[craigt3365]

10 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

 

And ISIS running Syria instead of Assad. Does the world really need another Iraq or Libya?

ISIS isn't running Iraq or Libya. Don't forget,  Assad has had a long history with IS. He's played both sides.

[craigt3365]

4 hours ago, car720 said:

 

Does it really matter if they are called Putin or Assad or Mussilini or Hitler or Henry the Eighth?

 

Old men have been sending young men to die and spill their blood on the battlefield since time began.

A warmonger will always be a warmonger whether he be a Putin or an Obama.

We always talk about the puppets but never their masters.

The greatest trick that the devil and other assorted companies played on mankind was to convince them that they never existed.

I'm not sure I'd call Obama a war monger.  If he was,  the war in Syria would be completely different. Luckily,  he's tried to stay out of it,  to the dismay of many others.  Good for him.

 

It is amazing some have respect for mass murders.

[gemini81]

15 hours ago, smedly said:

Putin is using Syria to stir the pot.

 

If Russia wasn't involved in Syria there would have been a no fly zone enforced by the US a long time ago

He is there welcome by a sovereign nation, by assad- not there against int'l laws and against the Geneva convention. He's not behind the mercenary proxy armies the US is arming eithe

[Jingthing]

9 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Not so long ago Trumpsters on here were praising Putin after Trump's endorsement of him.  I wonder if they are still feeling the same?

Putin likes trump because trump is an isolationist and has made noise that he's not very supportive of Nato, is ready to recognize Crimea as Russia, wouldn't go to war to defend the Baltic and is  STUPID enough to buy the Putin lies about Russian focus on Daesh in Syria. Putin NEVER said trump was brilliant like that egomaniacal clown man-child trump absurdly brags about ... he said he was COLORFUL. As in -- ORANGE is the new white. 

Edited October 4, 2016 by Jingthing

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, gemini81 said:

He is there welcome by a sovereign nation, by assad- not there against int'l laws and against the Geneva convention. He's not behind the mercenary proxy armies the US is arming eithe

Crimes against humanity are against the Geneva convention.  Either Putin bombed the aid convoy or assisted Assad in doing so. Along with the killing of thousands of innocent civilians.

 

Far more have been killed by Putin and Assad than by the rebels.  Amazing people back these people.

[derator01]

Several posts violating forum rules have been removed from view. If you have issues with this,  please use the PM function. 

 

Apologies to the member with the appropriate reply.

[Krataiboy]

16 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

ISIS isn't running Iraq or Libya. Don't forget,  Assad has had a long history with IS. He's played both sides.

 

Exactly. They would be if Russia hadn't started socking it to the terrorist groups recruited by the US to help unseat Assad. Of course Assad is playing both sides. They all do, including Putin and Obama.

[craigt3365]

7 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

 

Exactly. They would be if Russia hadn't started socking it to the terrorist groups recruited by the US to help unseat Assad. Of course Assad is playing both sides. They all do, including Putin and Obama.

Russia has admitted they aren't going after just IS. Your posts don't make sense.

 

Russia is targeting ordinary civilians also. And supporting Assad in doing the same.  Sick.

[manarak]

22 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

ISIS isn't running Iraq or Libya. Don't forget,  Assad has had a long history with IS. He's played both sides.

 

Do you have sources for this for actions before the civil war?

 

There is a possible different story than the official one - one in which "promoting democracy" meant orchestrating an uprising that eventually led to working with Al-quaeda.

You could check this post of mine, as well as others in the same thread:

 

My point of view is that today Syria has zero chance to get to democracy, because the bulk of the opposition fighters are violent islamists and the FSA has lost nearly all significance.

The US further pushing the rebels leads nowhere.

Edited October 5, 2016 by manarak

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, manarak said:

 

Do you have sources for this for actions before the civil war?

 

There is a possible different story than the official one - one in which "promoting democracy" meant orchestrating an uprising that eventually led to working with Al-quaeda.

You could check this post of mine, as well as others in the same thread:

 

My point of view is that today Syria has zero chance to get to democracy, because the bulk of the opposition fighters are violent islamists and the FSA has lost nearly all significance.

The US further pushing the rebels leads nowhere.

I'll try to get the source,  but I'm in Romania,  heading to Moldova.  Internet is touch and go and I'm on the move.  I found an interesting article laying out his relationship with IS. Including buying oil from them.

 

I'm not sure the bulk of rebels are Islamic extremists.  Many are just opposed to the brutal dictator Assad.  Which is what started all of this in the first place.

[manarak]

11 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

I'll try to get the source,  but I'm in Romania,  heading to Moldova.  Internet is touch and go and I'm on the move.  I found an interesting article laying out his relationship with IS. Including buying oil from them.

 

I'm not sure the bulk of rebels are Islamic extremists.  Many are just opposed to the brutal dictator Assad.  Which is what started all of this in the first place.

 

then read up, especially about who the (US-supported) opposition forces are.

 

 

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, manarak said:

 

then read up, especially about who the (US-supported) opposition forces are.

 

 

Goog gosh. I avoid nuts like Ron Paul.

 

It's a complicated and constantly changing mess. Made worse by Russia's bombing of innocent civilians.

[Gene1960]

Scary if true. 

 

https://friendsofsyria.wordpress.com/2016/10/06/putin-threatens-israel-saudi-arabia-with-tactical-nuclear-response-to-syrian-ground-invasion/

[Morch]

56 minutes ago, Gene1960 said:

Scary if true. 

 

https://friendsofsyria.wordpress.com/2016/10/06/putin-threatens-israel-saudi-arabia-with-tactical-nuclear-response-to-syrian-ground-invasion/

 

It isn't.

 

It's such a low level propaganda website that they can't even get their quotes right. For example, both quotes attributed to Biden and Parry are false. Each referred  to different countries than those stated in the website. Easy to check.

 

 

 

[gemini81]

22 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Russia has admitted they aren't going after just IS. Your posts don't make sense.

 

Russia is targeting ordinary civilians also. And supporting Assad in doing the same.  Sick.

You seem to have little understanding of what is going on there beyond CNN propaganda. If Russia hadn't stepped in Damascus would have fallen. You do know who funds, supports, arms those rebels don't you?

[gemini81]

21 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

I'll try to get the source,  but I'm in Romania,  heading to Moldova.  Internet is touch and go and I'm on the move.  I found an interesting article laying out his relationship with IS. Including buying oil from them.

 

I'm not sure the bulk of rebels are Islamic extremists.  Many are just opposed to the brutal dictator Assad.  Which is what started all of this in the first place.

lol, he was elected! Anyone opposing US/Israel is a 'dictator'

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, gemini81 said:

You seem to have little understanding of what is going on there beyond CNN propaganda. If Russia hadn't stepped in Damascus would have fallen. You do know who funds, supports, arms those rebels don't you?

I rarely read CNN. Do you know who funds those rebels?  Hint, many different countries.  Do some research and you'll find out.

 

Damascus falling 4 years ago would have saved hundreds of thousands of innocent people. I think that's a good trade off.

[gemini81]

5 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

I rarely read CNN. Do you know who funds those rebels?  Hint, many different countries.  Do some research and you'll find out.

 

Damascus falling 4 years ago would have saved hundreds of thousands of innocent people. I think that's a good trade off.

I have certainly done mine! Speak for yourself. Saudi, US, Turkey, Israel etc. The whole 'moderate' thing has unraveled to be Al Nusra and no different affiliations than to be linked to that of IS/Al Queda. Why would you want a sovereign country to fall? They were developed, 4th safest in the world before foreign mercenaries came in to destabilize the place- like it happened in Libya.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, gemini81 said:

I have certainly done mine! Speak for yourself. Saudi, US, Turkey, Israel etc. The whole 'moderate' thing has unraveled to be Al Nusra and no different affiliations than to be linked to that of IS/Al Queda. Why would you want a sovereign country to fall? They were developed, 4th safest in the world before foreign mercenaries came in to destabilize the place- like it happened in Libya.

I don't want a sovereign country to fall.  I want the leader of the country to quit killing innocent civilians.  Foreign combatants came AFTER Assad started his brutal crackdown on protesters.  You do understand that,  right? He did the same thing his father did.

 

Good reading for you.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Hama_massacre

 

 

[craigt3365]

3 hours ago, gemini81 said:

lol, he was elected! Anyone opposing US/Israel is a 'dictator'

Great troll post! LOL

[Guest]

 

For mobile users, who can't see tweets:
"Ex-Russian armed forces chief says RU is fighting in Syria, in part, to stop Qatar building gas pipeline to Europe,& secure Gazprom's market"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar-Turkey_pipeline