Kerry wants Aleppo war crimes probe as UN votes on French peace plan

[rooster59]

Kerry wants Aleppo war crimes probe as UN votes on French peace plan

Chris Cummins

 

 

The UN Security Council looks set to vote on a draft resolution over the weekend that calls for an immediate ceasefire across Syria and safe passage for the delivery of humanitarian aid.

 

The resolution, drafted by France, also demands an end to the aerial bombardment of Aleppo.

 

US Secretary of State John Kerry is concerned about alleged atrocities taking place in Aleppo:’‘These are acts that beg for an appropriate investigation of crimes and those who commit these crimes should be held accountable for these actions. This is a targeted strategy to terrorise civilians and to kill anybody who gets in the way of their military objectives.’‘

 

Russia’s Deputy Foreign Minister Gennady Gatilov said the French draft contained a number of unacceptable points, including an end to air strikes over Aleppo.

 

 

-- © Copyright Euronews 2016-10-08

[fish monger]

Kerry....Just shut up...!

[Rancid]

I mean, The Onion couldn't even make this stuff up. I guess how you interpret these type of things shows whether you form your own view of reality or have it handed to you neatly packaged.

[LawrenceChee]

The solution is easy . USA gets out of the conflict and NATO

Let the Russians and Assad mop the Isis out ....its plain to see the brutality to stem out the terrorists is by something the Americans can stomach

These bastards understand one language only - Savage killing and they will stop because it's in their tribal instincts to stop


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Morch]

17 minutes ago, LawrenceChee said:

The solution is easy . USA gets out of the conflict and NATO

Let the Russians and Assad mop the Isis out ....its plain to see the brutality to stem out the terrorists is by something the Americans can stomach

These bastards understand one language only - Savage killing and they will stop because it's in their tribal instincts to stop


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

They Russians and the Syrian armed forces are not attacking just ISIS, but anyone opposing Assad, and everyone who happens to be in the vicinity. The US foreign policy, flawed as it is, does not justify Russia and Assad actions.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Morch

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChee said:

The solution is easy . USA gets out of the conflict and NATO

Let the Russians and Assad mop the Isis out ....its plain to see the brutality to stem out the terrorists is by something the Americans can stomach

These bastards understand one language only - Savage killing and they will stop because it's in their tribal instincts to stop


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

The solution is for all foreign countries to get out. Sadly, as you know, as Morch points out, and Russia has admitted,  they are not 100% going after IS. Propping up the brutal dictator Assad and securing their position in the ME are the top priorities.  Innocent civilians just get in the way.

 

Hopefully,  they'll face the punishment for these actions.

[LawrenceChee]

The solution is for all foreign countries to get out. Sadly, as you know, as Morch points out, and Russia has admitted,  they are not 100% going after IS. Propping up the brutal dictator Assad and securing their position in the ME are the top priorities.  Innocent civilians just get in the way.
 
Hopefully,  they'll face the punishment for these actions.

The recent removal of Saddam Gaddafi Morsi were all instigated by the west ;

Can any logical person really say things have gotten significantly better and the geo politics have improved for the region to advance towards democracy and a better way of life ?

Assad is another example ....he may be a bloody brute by some quarters but in the ME the entire region thrives on it and understand that ...removing him from Syria creates western corners for the terrorism groups to recruit at will and create a bigger cess pot

The correct observation is none of the ME countries are actively seeking peace but rather waiting out for opportunities to consolidate their own tribes

This is the ME....it has been like this for centuries

Russia , USA or Nato has zero Long term solutions ....leave the bastards to kill each other and they will settle down when they run out

Arming them and equipping them continuously is a cheap shot at the influence of the factories manufacturing arms and all cheering for more wars




Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Morch]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChee said:

 

The recent removal of Saddam Gaddafi Morsi were all instigated by the west ;

Can any logical person really say things have gotten significantly better and the geo politics have improved for the region to advance towards democracy and a better way of life ?

Assad is another example ....he may be a bloody brute by some quarters but in the ME the entire region thrives on it and understand that ...removing him from Syria creates western corners for the terrorism groups to recruit at will and create a bigger cess pot

The correct observation is none of the ME countries are actively seeking peace but rather waiting out for opportunities to consolidate their own tribes

This is the ME....it has been like this for centuries

Russia , USA or Nato has zero Long term solutions ....leave the bastards to kill each other and they will settle down when they run out

Arming them and equipping them continuously is a cheap shot at the influence of the factories manufacturing arms and all cheering for more wars




Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

Judging by actions and conduct, there is little to differentiate between Assad's regime and those opposing him. Barbarism and disregard for civilian lives are pretty much the norm in this conflict. If one wished to raise simplistic views concerning terrorism, a counter argument could claim that as long as they are busy fighting Assad, terrorists based in Syria are less likely to act elsewhere.

 

Would Assad's removal make things worse? Possibly. Then again, it might mean a less intense, more localized fighting.

 

The major arms provider to Syria is Russia, by a long shot. The main foreign forces operating in Syria are Russian, by a long shot. And yet, most of the criticism about foreign intervention is directed at Western governments. Not exactly unexpected.

[nausea]

I agree, just everybody get out and let them sort it out amongst themselves. A fire nèeds fuel.

[LawrenceChee]

 
Judging by actions and conduct, there is little to differentiate between Assad's regime and those opposing him. Barbarism and disregard for civilian lives are pretty much the norm in this conflict. If one wished to raise simplistic views concerning terrorism, a counter argument could claim that as long as they are busy fighting Assad, terrorists based in Syria are less likely to act elsewhere.
 
Would Assad's removal make things worse? Possibly. Then again, it might mean a less intense, more localized fighting.
 
The major arms provider to Syria is Russia, by a long shot. The main foreign forces operating in Syria are Russian, by a long shot. And yet, most of the criticism about foreign intervention is directed at Western governments. Not exactly unexpected.

Russians are not western ? They are certainly not eastern ... so what or who are they ? In an eastern mind , Russians are western as they certainly don't eat Dim sum or use chopsticks


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[ilostmypassword]

5 minutes ago, LawrenceChee said:

 

Russians are not western ? They are certainly not eastern ... so what or who are they ? In an eastern mind , Russians are western as they certainly don't eat Dim sum or use chopsticks


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

So that means that Indians are Western, too?

[craigt3365]

10 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

 

The recent removal of Saddam Gaddafi Morsi were all instigated by the west ;

Can any logical person really say things have gotten significantly better and the geo politics have improved for the region to advance towards democracy and a better way of life ?

Assad is another example ....he may be a bloody brute by some quarters but in the ME the entire region thrives on it and understand that ...removing him from Syria creates western corners for the terrorism groups to recruit at will and create a bigger cess pot

The correct observation is none of the ME countries are actively seeking peace but rather waiting out for opportunities to consolidate their own tribes

This is the ME....it has been like this for centuries

Russia , USA or Nato has zero Long term solutions ....leave the bastards to kill each other and they will settle down when they run out

Arming them and equipping them continuously is a cheap shot at the influence of the factories manufacturing arms and all cheering for more wars




Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

So Saddam's invasion of Kuwait didn't have anything to do with his downfall?  The Arab Spring got the others, due to their own actions. Can't blame the West for everything that goes bad in the world. Though many try.

 

Saying the people in the ME deserve brutal dictators to keep them under control is ridiculous. A proper government would deal with these things.  A brutal dictator can't.

 

Morocco is doing ok. As is Jordan. So progress can be made. Not easy,  but better than brutal dictators. Let's do our best to help them out.  Russia's approach isn't working.

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

So Saddam's invasion of Kuwait didn't have anything to do with his downfall?  The Arab Spring got the others, due to their own actions. Can't blame the West for everything that goes bad in the world. Though many try.

 

Saying the people in the ME deserve brutal dictators to keep them under control is ridiculous. A proper government would deal with these things.  A brutal dictator can't.

 

Morocco is doing ok. As is Jordan. So progress can be made. Not easy,  but better than brutal dictators. Let's do our best to help them out.  Russia's approach isn't working.

You've got to remember that Lawrence Chee thinks that the reign of Mao Tse Tung was guided by the collected wisdom of 5000 years of Chinese governance. You know, the guy whose megalomania was responsible for the death of about 50,000,000 Chinese citizens.

[LawrenceChee]

I don't think any of these nations mentioned has the opportunity to be the world's 2nd largest economy after that incident

Largest network of fast railway , world's first maglev , improvements in economic strength

China is not perfect but it has come a long way since that.

Which of the one mentioned - Iraq , Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Libya , Egypt has that optimism coming ?

I have contacts that are working there and they tell me on the ground now with these odds , the best paying job is a contract bodyguard and in a side joke if you return to Thailand to spend that salary earned




Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[LawrenceChee]

So that means that Indians are Western, too?

Russians have blond hair, blue eyes features closer to western right ? Or you have seen Asians with that kind of features

So if the Russians are not western, who are they ? Just Russians ?

Indians ....come on :) get a better example !


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Credo]

The usual clap trap from some.   If somebody leaves then everything will be OK.   It won't.   A huge percent o the population have suffered under the hands of Assad Sr., and Assad Jr.  

 

Do you think that some Western country could go in and destabilize China, for example?   Do you believe that a massive number of people will rise up and try to overthrow the government?   I think that when faced with outside forces, most people will support the government.   In the ME this doesn't happen because the leaders have little support from the people.   Repression and oppression can only work for so long and then people have had enough.   

 

There is a big difference between a firm hand and tyrannical rule.   In Syria, it has been tyrannical rule for a very long time.   

[Morch]

13 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

 

Russians are not western ? They are certainly not eastern ... so what or who are they ? In an eastern mind , Russians are western as they certainly don't eat Dim sum or use chopsticks


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

I believe most posters differentiate between the West and Russia. Doubt the distinction never appeared in any of your posts.

Deflect away.

 

[craigt3365]

5 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

 

Russians have blond hair, blue eyes features closer to western right ? Or you have seen Asians with that kind of features

So if the Russians are not western, who are they ? Just Russians ?

Indians ....come on :) get a better example !


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

I'm basically in Russia now, Transnistria.  Not many with blonde hair here. Many actually have Asian features.  As with the US,  you can't make such generalizations.  I'd say they are not part of the term we use for Western nations. Especially when they constantly complain about the West! LOL

 

As an FYI, I've been with 4 Moldovan guides so far. To say they hate Russia,  and the people in general,  is putting it mildly.  I got the same responses when I was in the Caucasus and Central Asia a few months ago.  Especially Georgia and Armenia.

 

Repressive governments are generally not well liked.  As Credo says above.

[LawrenceChee]

I'm basically in Russia now, Transnistria.  Not many with blonde hair here. Many actually have Asian features.  As with the US,  you can't make such generalizations.  I'd say they are not part of the term we use for Western nations. Especially when they constantly complain about the West! LOL
 
As an FYI, I've been with 4 Moldovan guides so far. To say they hate Russia,  and the people in general,  is putting it mildly.  I got the same responses when I was in the Caucasus and Central Asia a few months ago.  Especially Georgia and Armenia.
 
Repressive governments are generally not well liked.  As Credo says above.

I think that in general is the difference between those who work with the governments and those who are sideline observers

When you speak with 4 person , they have a right of opinion ...when they hate the government just like you probably can find about 1-3 million Chinese who may hate the government and want to be vocal about it ,3 million does not make a majority with 1.3 billion

I work with the governments daily and every policy is rightly opposed and critiqued by any quarters...in governance you make decisions based on what will benefit the majority

If you don't go by that accord, the high speed railway in China as one example will never have been built if we had to gauge the smaller populace who has to relocate , probably bitter etc with the government

However for the 100 million plus using it every year , it's a lifesaver and a better faster way to travel


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Asiantravel]

12 hours ago, Credo said:

The usual clap trap from some.   If somebody leaves then everything will be OK.   It won't.   A huge percent o the population have suffered under the hands of Assad Sr., and Assad Jr.  

 

Do you think that some Western country could go in and destabilize China, for example?   Do you believe that a massive number of people will rise up and try to overthrow the government?   I think that when faced with outside forces, most people will support the government.   In the ME this doesn't happen because the leaders have little support from the people.   Repression and oppression can only work for so long and then people have had enough.   

 

There is a big difference between a firm hand and tyrannical rule.   In Syria, it has been tyrannical rule for a very long time.   

 

so why doesn't the US equally condemn the Saudi airstrike that hit a crowded marketplace in Mastaba  in Yemen, on March 15, killing at least 97 ci vilians, including 25 children?

Edited October 10, 2016 by Asiantravel

[craigt3365]

9 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

 

I think that in general is the difference between those who work with the governments and those who are sideline observers

When you speak with 4 person , they have a right of opinion ...when they hate the government just like you probably can find about 1-3 million Chinese who may hate the government and want to be vocal about it ,3 million does not make a majority with 1.3 billion

I work with the governments daily and every policy is rightly opposed and critiqued by any quarters...in governance you make decisions based on what will benefit the majority

If you don't go by that accord, the high speed railway in China as one example will never have been built if we had to gauge the smaller populace who has to relocate , probably bitter etc with the government

However for the 100 million plus using it every year , it's a lifesaver and a better faster way to travel


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Do some research on how Moldova has been treated by Russia over the years.  Mass starvations, taking of territory, children of chernoyby, etc. It's not good. Thus,  the strong feelings. Same sentiments I've heard in other former Soviet bloc nations. 

 

It'd be like asking a person from Tibet how they feel about China. Not good, to put it mildly.

Edited October 10, 2016 by craigt3365

[craigt3365]

4 hours ago, Asiantravel said:

 

so why doesn't the US equally condemn the Saudi airstrike that hit a crowded marketplace in Mastaba  in Yemen, on March 15, killing at least 97 ci vilians, including 25 children?

Like this?

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/08/middleeast/yemen-airstrikes/

 

The White House on Saturday condemned a Saudi-led coalition airstrike on a wake in Yemen that local health officials said killed at least 155 people.

[Credo]

11 hours ago, Asiantravel said:

 

so why doesn't the US equally condemn the Saudi airstrike that hit a crowded marketplace in Mastaba  in Yemen, on March 15, killing at least 97 ci vilians, including 25 children?

A missile was fired at Mecca.   I think this is about Aleppo in Syria, not Yemen and Saudi Arabia.   

[ilostmypassword]

On 10/10/2016 at 2:41 PM, LawrenceChee said:

 

I work with the governments daily and every policy is rightly opposed and critiqued by any quarters...in governance you make decisions based on what will benefit the majority




Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

Is that why local governments are building huge ghost cities with no residents and steel and power plants that will never be fired?  Without such things as agents free of government control to investigate goverment actions,  massive corruption is the inevitable result. People in China who try to fulfill that role wind up as exiles or in prison. Sometimes they begin as exiles and then are kidnapped back into China by government agents.

[Morch]

On 10/10/2016 at 2:41 PM, LawrenceChee said:

 

I think that in general is the difference between those who work with the governments and those who are sideline observers

When you speak with 4 person , they have a right of opinion ...when they hate the government just like you probably can find about 1-3 million Chinese who may hate the government and want to be vocal about it ,3 million does not make a majority with 1.3 billion

I work with the governments daily and every policy is rightly opposed and critiqued by any quarters...in governance you make decisions based on what will benefit the majority

If you don't go by that accord, the high speed railway in China as one example will never have been built if we had to gauge the smaller populace who has to relocate , probably bitter etc with the government

However for the 100 million plus using it every year , it's a lifesaver and a better faster way to travel


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

I doubt the nationalistic sentiment was ever particularly strong in Syria, apart from instances introduced and promoted by the regime itself. In the same way, the underlying notion that the ruler works for the benefit of the country and its people, does not necessarily apply.

 

This topic is not about the PRC.

[derator01]

Please stick to the topic. 

[jerome2]

It would be good... if the US had sign the treaty about the international tribunal....

and Russia didnt sign it either i belive ,im not sure

[tonbridgebrit]

On 09/10/2016 at 2:06 AM, fish monger said:

Kerry....Just shut up...!

That would be a good idea !

 

[tonbridgebrit]

On 09/10/2016 at 4:56 AM, Morch said:

 

They Russians and the Syrian armed forces are not attacking just ISIS, but anyone opposing Assad, and everyone who happens to be in the vicinity. The US foreign policy, flawed as it is, does not justify Russia and Assad actions.

You're right, the Russians and the Syrian armed forces are not just attacking ISIS.  They are attacking ALL the rebels. And who are the other rebels ?

Well, the rebels who are not ISIS, who are they ? The most effective fighting group amongst them are the Al-Nusra Front, these guys are Al-Qaeda's branch in Syria. So, Assad and Russia are trying to remove ISIS and the Al-Nusra Front. What is Washington doing ?  Washington is directly or in-directly supporting the Al-Nusra Front and other groups who work along-side the Al-Nusra Front.

And you reckon that US foreign policy is flawed ?  Yes, Washington intends to watch the Al-Nusra Front remove Assad. And then, Washington intends to bomb the Al-Nusra Front after Assad has gone. Maybe removing the Al-Nusra Front after Assad has gone will not be easy.  That's assuming that Assad is going to go, but he's not going to leave though.

 

 

 

 

[craigt3365]

7 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

You're right, the Russians and the Syrian armed forces are not just attacking ISIS.  They are attacking ALL the rebels. And who are the other rebels ?

Well, the rebels who are not ISIS, who are they ? The most effective fighting group amongst them are the Al-Nusra Front, these guys are Al-Qaeda's branch in Syria. So, Assad and Russia are trying to remove ISIS and the Al-Nusra Front. What is Washington doing ?  Washington is directly or in-directly supporting the Al-Nusra Front and other groups who work along-side the Al-Nusra Front.

And you reckon that US foreign policy is flawed ?  Yes, Washington intends to watch the Al-Nusra Front remove Assad. And then, Washington intends to bomb the Al-Nusra Front after Assad has gone. Maybe removing the Al-Nusra Front after Assad has gone will not be easy.  That's assuming that Assad is going to go, but he's not going to leave though.

 

This civil war was not started by IS or affiliated groups.  Just ordinary civilians tired of a brutal dictator. Sad some seem to have forgotten this.

 

Reports say only 900 or so "IS" rebels are left in Aleppo,  with 275, 000 civilians. Yet, the bombing continues.  Sick.