Takeaways: Trump aggressive, Clinton steady in tense debate

[SoiBiker]

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-started-birther-movement/

[up-country_sinclair]

The very same Trump fanboys who are disavowing Trump's role in the birther movement are the same ones who will be saying after he loses the election that they never supported him.

 

 

[stevenl]

35 minutes ago, up-country_sinclair said:

The very same Trump fanboys who are disavowing Trump's role in the birther movement are the same ones who will be saying after he loses the election that they never supported him.

 

 

Some have started already.

[Ulysses G.]

1 hour ago, SoiBiker said:

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-started-birther-movement/

 

Did you bother to read it? It says that Hillary's supporters did not start it, but - as I said - they POPULARIZED it by spreading the rumor. 

Edited October 11, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

The perpetual lying by some posters on the issue of the Birther movement is grotesque. Numerous links have demonstrated that the issue started in 2004 from politically motivated allegations from someone running for the Senate from Illinois in competition with Obama.

 

The link to the Clinton 2008 campaign is very minor and the staffer who sent emails concerning this issue was sacked and the Campaign rejected any association with the false allegations.

 

But it seems this never stops. The Right Wing fringe attempts to divert attention from Trumps core and integral role in popularizing the Birther issue are  pretty desperate and under-handed in the context of every crass and disgusting thing that Trump is shown to have done.

 

This perpetuation of the racist lie is grubby.

 

Neither Clinton nor the actions of the dismissed campaign staffer popularized the birther issue. It was popularized by Jim Geraghty of the conservative website National Review Online when he demanded that Obama release his birth certificate. This was in June 2008 when Obama was already the presumptive nominee and so there was no motivation for Clinton Campaign staffers to try to popularize the issue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories

 

This started the whole birth certificate thing. The short form. The accusations of photoshopping. The investigation teams going to Hawaii. Then finally the Long Form. This is the Birther Issue, taken on and lead and financed by Trump in his effort to delegitimize the first African American President. 

 

The only thing left for the nasty racists who are trying to perpetuate this lie is the idea that the Clinton Campaign was instrumental in fanning the flames. The Wikileaks article, taken together with the numerous other credible sources that have tracked and fact checked this issue shows this to be pure rubbish. So why keep on about it? Pure racist hatred and it is disgraceful. As is Trump's association with this and his insincere, ghost written and poorly delivered statement. He and the other racists should be pilloried for this shameful conduct.

[SoiBiker]

36 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Did you bother to read it? It says that Hillary's supporters did not start it, but - as I said - they POPULARIZED it by spreading the rumor. 

 

No it doesn't.

[Ulysses G.]

5 minutes ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

Neither Clinton nor the actions of the dismissed campaign staffer popularized the birther issue.

 

It was her supporters sending out emails relaying the rumor and her campaign staff spreading photos of Obama in Muslim clothing. The Obama campaign complained bitterly about it and called it a "smear campaign". Facts are facts.

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2008/02/obama-slams-smear-photo-008667

 

 

[Ulysses G.]

9 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

 

No it doesn't.

 

"That Hillary's supporters circulated such an email is not in question".

 

It is right there in black and white.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[SoiBiker]

6 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

"That Hillary's supporters circulated such an email is not in question".

 

It is right there in black and white.

 

 

Yes. 

 

But it doesn't say they popularised it. 

[up-country_sinclair]

A message to the Trump fanboys:  Just because you fell for the Trump con doesn't mean the rest of us will.

 

Despite the desperate spinning, it's obvious that Trump is responsible for popularizing perpetuating the birther issue.  His entire campaign is based on it.

 

The timeline:

 

 

[SoiBiker]

I liked the bit in the first debate when he said he put a stop to it by forcing Obama to produce his birth certificate, then avoided the question when asked why he'd continued to question Obama's legitimacy for years afterwards. 

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

56 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

It was her supporters sending out emails relaying the rumor and her campaign staff spreading photos of Obama in Muslim clothing. The Obama campaign complained bitterly about it and called it a "smear campaign". Facts are facts.

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2008/02/obama-slams-smear-photo-008667

 

 

 

You keep repeating this as if it means something. The Campaign dismissed the staffer. They put a stop to these allegations. The actions of the dismissed staffer did not fan any flames neither did it popularize the issue. The issue of the Birther movement was popularized when it became focussed on the birth certificate issue which was initiated by the Right Wing.

 

As for your continued lying about Obama in Muslim clothing. This is disgraceful. Obama is pictured in Somali traditional clothing. it is national garb, not religious. There is only one reason to lie about the nature of the clothing and it is a disgraceful tactic. For those people who haven't seen the picture, it is attached. They can see with their own eyes and not have to listen to knowingly false information.

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by Tawan Dok Krating Daeng

[Ulysses G.]

2 hours ago, SoiBiker said:

Yes. 

 

But it doesn't say they popularised it. 

 

Hair splitting. It certainly implies it and numerous other links have made it very clear.

 

Clearly, the Clinton supporters accused of spreading it via forwarded e-mails knew "good ammo" when they saw it, but, as the above posts show, they deserve neither credit nor blame for the invention of birtherism. 

 

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-started-birther-movement/

 

The Telegraph:

 

Birther row began with Hillary Clinton supporters

The lie that Barack Obama was not born in the US has been fuelled by fringe Republicans — but supporters of Hillary Clinton, now Mr Obama’s Secretary of State, are largely to blame for starting it.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/8478044/Birther-row-began-with-Hillary-Clinton-supporters.html

 

Politico:

 

Obama campaign manager David Plouffe accused the Clinton campaign Monday of "shameful offensive fear-mongering" by circulating a photo as an attempted smear.

Plouffe was reacting to a on the Drudge Report saying that aides to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) had e-mailed a photo calling attention to the African roots of Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.).

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2008/02/obama-slams-smear-photo-008667#ixzz4MnWXUWXy

 

The Guardian:

 

Barack Obama's campaign team today accused Hillary Clinton's beleaguered staff of mounting a desperate dirty tricks operation by circulating a picture of him in African dress, feeding into false claims on US websites that he is a Muslim.

Obama's campaign manager, David Plouffe, described it as "the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering we've seen from either party in this election".

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/feb/25/barackobama.hillaryclinton

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[SoiBiker]

It only implies it if you're desperate enough to read that meaning into it. 

 

Trump said Clinton's staff started it. They didn't. You say they popularised it. They didn't.

 

Like many of his supporters, you live in a fantasy world of conspiracy theories and outright lies. The weird thing is how surprised you are when the rest of us don't care to join you there. 

[Ulysses G.]

1 minute ago, SoiBiker said:

 

. You say they popularised it. They didn't.

 

 

 

 

Deny, deny, deny. All those articles from credible sources say otherwise.

[SoiBiker]

1 minute ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

 

Deny, deny, deny. All those articles from credible sources say otherwise.

 

They don't, though. One of them incorrectly refers to them starting the birther theory. The other two refer to a photo that hints at him having african or muslim roots. 

 

This really is one of the most laughable things to come out of the trump campaign. He might as well accuse her of popularising the orange combover. 

[Ulysses G.]

2 hours ago, SoiBiker said:

 

They don't, though. One of them incorrectly refers to them starting the birther theory. The other two refer to a photo that hints at him having african or muslim roots. 

 

No it does not. It says LARGELY to blame for starting it. That is correct because they POPULARIZED the rumor. It does not say that they started it.

 

The photos were spread by the Hillary Clinton camp - a "desperate dirty tricks operation circulating a picture of him in African dress, feeding into false claims on US websites that he is a Muslim. " It was her supporters sending out emails relaying the rumor and her campaign staff spreading photos of Obama in Muslim clothing. The Obama campaign complained bitterly about it and called it a "smear campaign".

 

The article clearly says that Hillary's supporters did not start the rumors, they just fanned the flames and popularized it.

 

False rumours about Mr Obama’s background first surfaced in 2004, in Illinois, where he was a state senator. Andy Martin, a perennial local candidate and litigant, claimed Mr Obama was secretly Muslim.

 

...It was not until April 2008, at the height of the intensely bitter Democratic presidential primary process, that the touch paper was properly lit.

An anonymous email circulated by supporters of Mrs Clinton, Mr Obama’s main rival for the party’s nomination, thrust a new allegation into the national spotlight — that he had not been born in Hawaii.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/8478044/Birther-row-began-with-Hillary-Clinton-supporters.html

 

In a heated 2007 confrontation on a tarmac at Reagan National Airport in Washington, ex-Obama aide Reggie Love witnessed an irate Senator Barack Obama personally accuse Hillary Clinton of spreading a rumor that he was a Muslim. 

http://spectator.org/64130_obama-accused-hillary-labeling-him-muslim/

 

Obviously you will just keep refusing to accept any actual evidence that you are wrong. Not all that surprising really.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[SoiBiker]

Nothing you've posted shows that they POPULARISED it (even putting it in CAPITALS doesn't make it true) - just that they emailed it to some people. It's apparent to anyone who hasn't drunk the orange Kool aid that it was Trump's endless talking about it that POPULARISED the issue. 

[Skywalker69]

On 2016-10-10 at 6:13 AM, Ulysses G. said:

 

Agreed. Trump kicked butt tonight despite CNN' s unscientific "poll". Plenty of other unscientific polls call him the winner and they are correct.

 

http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/09/heres-who-won-the-debate-according-to-the-internet/

 Yes he did, his own!

[Skywalker69]

On 2016-10-11 at 4:15 AM, Ulysses G. said:

 

They can make a nuke in just a few months if they decide to already, but if they wait a few years, it turns into a legitimate nuclear program thanks to the INSANE "deal". Before this, Iran was forbidden from having one at all and had signed an agreement to that effect.

 

http://www.iranwatch.org/our-publications/articles-reports/irans-nuclear-timetable

If Trump wins the election US should be forbidden to have "nukes" aswell.

[Silurian]

Some more fact checking of the debate from the not always serious site Cracked.

 

This Debate Was A S**t Show: The 11 Craziest Lies

 

 

[NanLaew]

On 11/10/2016 at 1:14 PM, up-country_sinclair said:

The very same Trump fanboys who are disavowing Trump's role in the birther movement are the same ones who will be saying after he loses the election that they never supported him.

 

 

Just like when I worked in the US and I don't recall anyone claiming they voted for Bush.

 

Either of them.

[SoiBiker]

7 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Just like when I worked in the US and I don't recall anyone claiming they voted for Bush.

 

Either of them.

 

Depends where you were - in some states, likely few people did. The US is quite a polarised place. 

Edited October 12, 2016 by SoiBiker

[Jingthing]

On 10/10/2016 at 1:25 PM, Jingthing said:

Just watched the debate. No, Hillary didn't have anything like that handed to her. She clearly won the debate and you will see that clearly in the scientific polls coming out later (as opposed to the B.S. unscientific online polls). You will also see her realclearpolitics average lead rise about 2 or 3 more points in about 7 days time.

It won't only be the debate win which was a strong one but because trump had his act together better this time,  not as overwhelming as the first, but also the SEXUAL ABUSE thing now part of the trump brand. 

Her lead right now is 4.6 points which actually in such a divided nation is indeed a LARGE lead. That was up from about 2.5 during the first debate. There is a limit to how big her lead will get because the hard core trumpists won't budge, never ever, and they do represent about 40 percent of voters. No, he will never be neck and neck with her again. That is DELUSIONAL. 

Well, golly, we're two days short of the 7 days after the 2nd debate, but the realclearpolitics average is performing as predicted. Hill now ahead there by 6.7, over 2 points up from 4.6. Of course it's not only about the debate, there is also pussygate and the continuing MOMENTUM from Hillary's massive win in the FIRST debate. This also shows wikileaks is not hurting her at all. It's over. 

 

Mortals don't come from such deficits so close to the election, and voting has already started too. Especially when his defense against the about 10 women that have come forward with sexual assault charges is that they weren't pretty enough for him to assault them. That's an admission of guilt. What a self destructive psychopathic MORON! Hillary Clinton (get used to calling her PRESIDENT HILLARY CLINTON) is indeed very, very lucky to be running against such a loony tunes. 

Edited October 15, 2016 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 8:24 AM, NanLaew said:

Just like when I worked in the US and I don't recall anyone claiming they voted for Bush.

 

Either of them.

 

Hard to believe that. I live in hip California and know a number of Trump supporters of every race.