SURVEY: Is the Immigration policy of Good Guys in/Bad Guys Out effective?

[Deepinthailand]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

 

   If he has a family, he will be able to get a long term visa based on that , if not, Thailand still allows numerous Tourist Visas .

   With tourists visas from different Embassys , mixed up with a few VES and the occasional new passport, its still very much possible to stay in Thailand long term .

   No one needs to leave his family or overstay . 

YET

Unless of course the poo he finds himself in means he has no money. things are never black and white. long term based on marriage still means 400000 in bank for three months. multi o from savannakhet means traveling there means money for visa money for visa on arrival means hotel money food money. Things can and do change in a heart beat. easy to sit back and say he's fault well just maybe it isn't. 

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said:

Unless of course the poo he finds himself in means he has no money. things are never black and white. long term based on marriage still means 400000 in bank for three months. multi o from savannakhet means traveling there means money for visa money for visa on arrival means hotel money food money. Things can and do change in a heart beat. easy to sit back and say he's fault well just maybe it isn't. 

 

    Although that is a persons personal financial situation and its nothing to do with immigration changes  .

    As far as I know , there hasnt been any changes in the Mulit 0 visa application process over the years

[Deepinthailand]

10 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

    Although that is a persons personal financial situation and its nothing to do with immigration changes  .

    As far as I know , there hasnt been any changes in the Mulit 0 visa application process over the years

It's about good guys in that was my point in my post you don't go from good guy to bad for looking after family if that entails breaking the visa laws.

[swissie]

I immediately consulted my local Thai Clairvoyant regarding this matter. He came up with the following:

- 2 years from now (unless being a member of the Elite Card program), all "long termers" will be qualified as a "bad guys". Regardless if they have a Thai wife, 6 children, 15 chicken and 7 pigs dwelling on the property.

Must add, that my local clairvoyant has been wrong on some rare occasions. On some rare occasions.......
Cheers.

[Shaunduhpostman]

Who or what is bad or good? Would anyone be able to get even the vaguest clue as to what that was having lived for awhile or or having been born in Thailand? Seriously. Are you blinkin kidding?

 

Even that aside,  the question of  who is good or bad is a childish, or even pathologically unsophistictaed notion regarding people and who and what they are. And when applied to the quite important situation as to whether people ought to be thrown out of a country because someone seems to feel they aren't "good" is barbaric.

 

I won't respond to this jingoistic and unelaborated slogan as to whether I think it is "effective" or not. Thailand like any place deserves better than being treated as a joke by cynical facists. And that is what this is, whether you know it or not, te rather sinister notion that there are people who are simply bad people because someone with some marginal dgree of power doesn't like them and decides they are bad.

 

I find it sickening that a website who prupotedly appeals to people from countries who would know better brings things down to this level of Bad people, which is absurd and good people. I am disgusted by Thaivisa more than I am by the Thai facists with this racist and destructive policy.

 

And to boot, it is inuslting to insinuate that I and other Thaivisa readers are  so stupid that we think the Thai immigration authorities or anyone  in Thailand is concerned with anything, let alone good guys in bad guys out, whatever the f*&! that is supposed to mean, is effective. Who are you kidding, "mate?"

Edited October 30, 2016 by Shaunduhpostman

[sanemax]

Basically, I think that they mean overstayers and people who do illegal things in Thailand, are the bad people and people who are in Thailand legitimately and law abiding  are the good people

[gk10002000]

It has basically made it more difficult for the good guys that have always tried to do things right

[mokwit]

On 10/15/2016 at 9:13 AM, Scott said:

rid Thailand of negative foreigners

To clarify: I was responding to this by OP when I suggested abolish retirement visas as I thought [based on tone of TV postings] it would get rid of thousands of negative foreigners with a stroke of a pen.

 

Note: I am now on retirement visa but seem not to have developed the symptoms yet.

 

Note for the person who corrected me. When I asked Immigration Officer at CW counter giving out tickets for an 'extension of stay based on retirement' I got a blank look - I then said "retirement visa" and got the correct que ticket.

Edited October 30, 2016 by mokwit

[NoshowJones]

19 hours ago, Grubster said:

And three strikes yer out, oh sorry thats baseball not hockey.

It's also for criminals, like the way some of us are treated having to do 90 day reports.

Every year should be enough. Just my opinion.

[NoshowJones]

19 hours ago, lostinisaan said:

Please feel free to leave a comment about how you think Thailand could best reduce the number of undesirable foreigners.  

 

 

 Wait, until I see you with my wife beater shirt......

         

Undesirable could mean lots of things, lets have some examples, ie the shirtless yobs in tourist areas.

[NoshowJones]

17 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

Require proof of health-insurance on entry, and sell policies right there on-the-spot like they do "car insurance" at some country's borders. 

 

Same for proof of funds on entry - put an ATM right there, outside the immi-booth, and allow people to pull out the money or print a statement.

 

 

Some offices have started making trouble about this - asking to see "active transfers" - to spite that not being what the law requires.  But given there are no "handouts" to expats here, they have nothing to loose, and only to gain, by allowing anyone who is not destitute or working illegally to stay - especially provided they show they have the funds on-hand to deal with any emergency.

Sorry Mr Thompson, I do not agree, think of all the long queues. Apart from special cases, robbery, illness etc, put the illegals, foreign beggars, and people who seriously flout the immigration laws in jail till someone comes along with their transport expenses back to their own country.

[NoshowJones]

17 hours ago, ujayujay said:

Nonsense....... Who does not have a valid visa belongs to the "bad guys", as in most other country.  This mainly includes "quality tourists", who deliberately overcame their stay. For some Thai Visa readers, this simple fact seems difficult to understand.  No country in the world wants tourists or retirees who ultimately submerge in the country without a valid visa and without money.

What about the UK? They have hotel rooms waiting, and money to hand out to illegals who ie "lose" their passports, say they are "children".

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It's pretty clearly not working when Immigration often makes life difficult for ordinary, entirely law abiding residents but alleged terrorists are able to buy entry into and out of the country by paying off Immigration border staff, apparently with little backlash even when those kinds of things are publicly disclosed.

 

And when I say often makes life difficult for ordinary residents, I mean things like the mess that is CM Immigration, the varied offices that essentially are shaking down applicants for extra payments or essentially forcing them to use paid visa agents, running an online 90-day reporting system that is down as often as it works, having a comments/complaints link on the main Immigration website for BKK that never is functional, totally failing to have a clear and consistent set of rules/requirements among ALL the Immigration offices, etc etc.

 

Post of the month here.

[NoshowJones]

16 hours ago, gios50hk said:

My wife and I consider ourselves as normal, decent and hard-working people and moved to Thailand just over two years ago from China - a country (and nationality) that I thought it would be impossible to surpass it terms of overt and systemic racism. I was badly mistaken. Thailand sets new and unparalleled levels of 'anti-foreigner' sentiment that are nothing short of disgraceful. Their attitude towards foreigners living. working and actually surviving (ie visa requirements, work permits/SME business requirements etc) and the constant and continuously destructive malaise of corruption you have to deal with here have made our lives an utter nightmare.

 

On top of this, we have encountered some of the most despicable and ruthless criminals, scam-artists, con-men and total liars we have ever met in our lives! We have been defrauded out of our house and all our life savings by greedy, heartless (and convicted) crooks, openly aided by corrupt local government agencies, lawyers and the parlous legal system here.  

 

So with due respect to 'General Prat' and his cohorts exaltations about 'Good guys in, Bad Guys out' - what complete tosh! I am convinced that Thailand's powers that be warmly welcome the most undesirable scurrilous and evil people to Thailand as they know that it will be to their own mutual benefit. (they will make more in bribes, pay-offs and so on from all these crooks etc!) Meanwhile, good honest people continue to suffer and pay the price for trying to make a valuable contribution to Thai society.

 

If it weren't for the fact that we are virtually bankrupt and have no money to escape this total shithole - my wife and I would have left the day after we arrived here!

 

 

A lot of truth in this post, but there are a lot of good people in Thailand also, you are not going to find the perfect country. I would rather live here than the UK any day.

[NoshowJones]

11 hours ago, 212Roger said:

Bad is: a cheap Charlie I suppose.

Yes, I'm a bad boy.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

Bad guy?I am on a retirement extension.I do not live in Pattaya,Nor do i live in any other of the united bar states of Thailand.I am not a member of a golf club As my playing days are over due to a touch of Rheumatism in my neck, which the climate here,helps out.I retired from my country of birth,because it is no longer the country that i grew up in.I worked legally here for 3 years in the past.And have made money in the leisure industry.I have paid taxes here and have,as best i can,respected,and obeyed the laws here.I am married,legally to a Thai woman and our life is one of,give and take,and understanding.I am  quiet man,and am known in our village for that reason.I help with the Rice Harvest every year and always take my expected amount of beer for the days consumption whilst baling the sheaths.I live in a house that my wife built years ago from her business.I neither lend nor do i borrow and keep my self to myself,unless asked otherwise.I dont drive any form of pick up or any vehicle that a bad guy ferang is meant to drive.

There are many other reasons why being on my retirement extension is justified,the main one is that i bloody deserve it,because i have worked for it.
the OP that said ban all retirement 'visa's' is speakinf out of his uneducated and know nothing arse,ans really wants to <deleted>,because one day ,he just might need one.

P.S I do not wear sandals,long socks,Chang Tee shirts,or have a ruck sack.

 

[SaintLouisBlues]

7 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

the OP that said ban all retirement 'visa's' is speakinf out of his uneducated and know nothing arse,ans really wants to <deleted>,because one day ,he just might need one.

P.S I do not wear sandals,long socks,Chang Tee shirts,or have a ruck sack.

Just missing the sense of humor then?

[Khon Kaen Dave]

SaintLouis Blues

I have a very good sense of humour.You see that,if you have ever read any of my posts,especially the one about the Red Palm Weevil,on the 'bugs being sent to Europe topic'

But to me,some things aren't funny,when they slide glibly off the the tongue,usually being quoted by another before them.

Maybe i should have replied 'abolish all silly posters,with no mind of their own'?

[Cynical Sailor]

Most retirees I've met here are good guys. Most of the trouble I've witnessed has been caused by holiday makers travelling alone. I'm neither: I'm here on an Ed visa.

[louse1953]

20 hours ago, gios50hk said:

My wife and I consider ourselves as normal, decent and hard-working people and moved to Thailand just over two years ago from China - a country (and nationality) that I thought it would be impossible to surpass it terms of overt and systemic racism. I was badly mistaken. Thailand sets new and unparalleled levels of 'anti-foreigner' sentiment that are nothing short of disgraceful. Their attitude towards foreigners living. working and actually surviving (ie visa requirements, work permits/SME business requirements etc) and the constant and continuously destructive malaise of corruption you have to deal with here have made our lives an utter nightmare.

 

On top of this, we have encountered some of the most despicable and ruthless criminals, scam-artists, con-men and total liars we have ever met in our lives! We have been defrauded out of our house and all our life savings by greedy, heartless (and convicted) crooks, openly aided by corrupt local government agencies, lawyers and the parlous legal system here.  

 

So with due respect to 'General Prat' and his cohorts exaltations about 'Good guys in, Bad Guys out' - what complete tosh! I am convinced that Thailand's powers that be warmly welcome the most undesirable scurrilous and evil people to Thailand as they know that it will be to their own mutual benefit. (they will make more in bribes, pay-offs and so on from all these crooks etc!) Meanwhile, good honest people continue to suffer and pay the price for trying to make a valuable contribution to Thai society.

 

If it weren't for the fact that we are virtually bankrupt and have no money to escape this total shithole - my wife and I would have left the day after we arrived here!

 

 

Deleted by self before i received a holiday,again.

[louse1953]

3 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Undesirable could mean lots of things, lets have some examples, ie the shirtless yobs in tourist areas.

Bloody hell,i'm banned,forever.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

I have a certain amount of sympathy for the OP.But knowing that he lived in China before coming here.I would have thought that he would have had a certain amount of Street 'Savvy' to know enough,not to be "defrauded out of house and savings" Surely living there would have given him some sort of 'nounce' in matters of home and dosh.Maybe he was just a trusting guy,god bless him.But,in any country,any thing that seems too good to be true,usually is, and the old saying,beware of geeks bearing gifts.But they also say,that you cant con an honest man.So i ask how did it happen?

[JackThompson]

16 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

   If he has a family, he will be able to get a long term visa based on that , if not, Thailand still allows numerous Tourist Visas .

   With tourists visas from different Embassys , mixed up with a few VES and the occasional new passport, its still very much possible to stay in Thailand long term .

   No one needs to leave his family or overstay . 

YET

 

As someone who stays here that way, I can tell you it is not inexpensive to keep that up.  Not exorbitant either, but if a money-pinch hit, would not be do-able to someone on the edge. 

 

While I could simply bail to Cambodia if finances got tight, I do feel for the guy with children here for whom this is a much more painful option - especially the children - outright harmful to the children, in fact.

[JackThompson]

12 hours ago, Shaunduhpostman said:

Who or what is bad or good? Would anyone be able to get even the vaguest clue as to what that was having lived for awhile or or having been born in Thailand? Seriously. Are you blinkin kidding?

 

Even that aside,  the question of  who is good or bad is a childish, or even pathologically unsophistictaed notion regarding people and who and what they are. And when applied to the quite important situation as to whether people ought to be thrown out of a country because someone seems to feel they aren't "good" is barbaric....

 

Maybe, to clarify, it could be summed up as "Good for the Citizens of Thailand" vs "Bad for the Citizens of Thailand"?  That's what we need in my own country - and most certainly do not have there. 

 

I would like to see home humanitarian reforms to the Thai Visa system to assist those married with children and long-term stayers who have remained within the law.  The next priority would be raising more revenue / foreign-investment, which would help Thailand, by assisting under-50s to relocate their offshore-businesses here.

 

But I certainly would NOT like to see what is attempted to be done in the West, which is to throw out the idea that a Nation-State has the Right to decide when/if/which Foreigners it allows to come in, for how long, etc.

[PeCeDe]

28 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

I have a certain amount of sympathy for the OP.But knowing that he lived in China before coming here.I would have thought that he would have had a certain amount of Street 'Savvy' to know enough,not to be "defrauded out of house and savings" Surely living there would have given him some sort of 'nounce' in matters of home and dosh.Maybe he was just a trusting guy,god bless him.But,in any country,any thing that seems too good to be true,usually is, and the old saying,beware of geeks bearing gifts.But they also say,that you cant con an honest man.So i ask how did it happen?

Like your saying, "can't con an honest man," wise words. But  maybe not always so, I prefer  " It's difficult to conl an honest man." Let's hope the op gets satisfaction, somehow I doubt they will.

 

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Sorry Mr Thompson, I do not agree, think of all the long queues. Apart from special cases, robbery, illness etc, put the illegals, foreign beggars, and people who seriously flout the immigration laws in jail till someone comes along with their transport expenses back to their own country.

 

Those who do not have health-insurance go in the queues for health-insurance.  The prepared would sail through.

 

Those who don't have the funds to show go to the end of the line after they visit the ATM.  If they don't have the money, they go home.  As is, they may now get booted for "insufficient funds," on a random check for funds, even if they have 1M Baht available from an ATM. 

 

As to the "illegals, foreign beggars, and people who seriously flout the immigration laws" ... I was not talking about them, and see no reason the Thais should have to put up with them.

[chrisinth]

I have answered 'No, it has not been effective.........' to the survey, the reason being that I can't discern a specific policy from what is being presented by Immigration that in anyway covers their statement of Good guys in, Bad guys out.

 

As UB mentioned in an earlier post, the slogan "Good guys in, Bad guys out" was conceived on the problem of overstay, and banning rules were introduced as below.

 

 

However, this does not conform to their mission statement on another release explaining the slogan (I believe this to be an overall view of Immigration as a whole however). The Mission statement reads:

 

'Thai Immigration Bureau is the gateway of Thailand with a mission to inspect people and vehicles that travel into or out of the country including to provide immigration services for any foreign nationals residing in the Kingdom and to be the frontline in protecting National Security'.

 

[chrisinth]

In my opinion, what I see is a system, which in the past has been extremely lax, being tightened up. Because of it being so lax in the past, this has come as a shock for many people, a reality check if you may. Add to this changes to visas, SETV, METV introduced and double/triple entries removed. Due to the requirements of these new visas (country specific) this makes them more difficult for everyone to get. Tighter control on the issuing of multi non-O visas (which I personally think is a mistake for the 28/28 folks) adds to the depression as far as long stay goes who are not living here on extensions.

 

On the pro side, the ability to extend visa exempt stamps by an additional 30 days works for 'tourists' but is slightly negated by restrictions as to the number issued before being flagged. As the extension can be done in any immigration office, I believe this is the primary reason for the clampdown on the TM28 & 30, to keep track of people. Different packages are being offered by the Elite program which, while not financially viable for everyone, gives a percentage of visitors the option to stay long term who didn't fit into any catagory for extensions. As for long term stayers, with the exclusion of the 'question & answer sheets' nothing much has changed.

 

But, Good guys in, Bad guys out? In their attempt to get their act together and with the exception of some token raids on night venues, the majority of attention has been pointed at people who are trying to stay here legally; people already in their system. To me anyway, this does nothing against the 'Bad guys'.

 

Until Immigration, RTP (Yes, I know immigration is a branch of the RTP) & TAT get to sit round a table and talk to each other about what is required for a 'balanced' solution to what is currently happening, nothing is there to deter the really bad boys.

[NoshowJones]

42 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

Those who do not have health-insurance go in the queues for health-insurance.  The prepared would sail through.

 

Those who don't have the funds to show go to the end of the line after they visit the ATM.  If they don't have the money, they go home.  As is, they may now get booted for "insufficient funds," on a random check for funds, even if they have 1M Baht available from an ATM. 

 

As to the "illegals, foreign beggars, and people who seriously flout the immigration laws" ... I was not talking about them, and see no reason the Thais should have to put up with them.

Yes, I take your point, but it would be a shame for those who are too old to get health insurance not to get into Thailand, also those with existing health problems who can't get health insurance. I don't know what the answer is.

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, louse1953 said:

Bloody hell,i'm banned,forever.

Nothing wrong with being shirtless on the beach or even in parks, but those who are shirtless walking through shopping malls, going into restaurants etc, I would have them lifted and put in jail. Respect must be shown to the Thai people in their own country.