How Strictly Is the 28-day Rule For Bank Statement Applied?

[Barns]

Hi,

 

I saw a few weeks ago that there is now a rule saying the latest bank statement showing enough cash savings for a UK Spouse Settlement Visa has to be dated within the 28 days prior to the completion of the application.

 

As a result, I checked the statements I had ordered and had all lined up covering the last 15 months or so but, unfortunately, the latest one is dated August 17th and I only completed the online application process on October 1st since we had to wait for the results of my wife's English test which, gladly, came through as a PASS on September 29th.

 

Obviously, that's 45 days not 28 days so I messaged the bank again on October 3rd and asked for a new statement to be sent to my parents' UK address, where I'm still registered etc, but they sent out the wrong statement, a Section 975 statement showing interest paid for the purposes of Income Tax. Since the statements, for some reason, take 10-12 working days to arrive, we did not know this until recently, when it arrived.

 

I have, since then, again messaged them, explicitly stating that I was happy to pay whatever charge was necessary for them to send it out first class since my parents still have to DHL it to me and I live in Laos, the appointments are only every 3 months here and ours is next Thursday, the 20th... However, the reply still said 5-7 working days and I'm really worried now that it's not going to arrive at my parents' house in time for them to DHL it to me here.

 

I plan, if it doesn't arrive in time, to include the statements I have, which are official statements on coloured paper etc, plus recent printouts of screenshots of my accounts from their online banking website. All other documentation is also done perfectly...as far as I'm aware anyway...

 

Does anyone have experience of having problems getting the financial proof exactly right and know how strictly they apply the 28-day rule? Is 45 days too many even though I will also include up-to-date printouts of screenshots of the account showing that it is still, now, exactly the same as it was on August 17th? Do people think this will be OK? Or an automatic "Right, he hasn't provided exactly the right documents so we automatically say no"?

 

Thanks in advance.

[7by7]

Section 3.4 Evidential flexibility of the financial appendix sets out the circumstances under which the ECO may use their discretion over missing or incomplete documents; either by requesting them or by granting the visa without them.

 

You'll see that they also have discretion over documents in the wrong format; such as the screenshots you suggest; provided other documents submitted back them up or the information is verifiable from some other source. I would hope that the actual statements which you do have would satisfy this. But I cannot say for sure, of course..

 

I suggest that you make every effort to obtain the missing statements before submitting the application, and if that is not possible explain why in your covering letter, saying that you have submitted the screenshots,  and confirm that you will submit the actual statements if required as soon as they arrive.

 

Whether this will be acceptable or not I cannot, of course, say.

[Barns]

Thanks for the reassurance 7by7. You've been a great help both here and in my last post.

 

I think that any normal human being would be able to look at what I've supplied and see that, on any sort of rational basis, it really is quite clear that I have fulfilled every criterion laid out. I just may have not been able to provide the perfect documentation due to a clerical error by someone else...

 

I do plan to include the wrongly-sent-out Section 975 statement as back-up to my explanation in the covering letter that the bank sent out the wrong statement and, yes, the other statements are as official and exact as they come.

 

Of course, I still plan to have the real documents but, realistically, given that "next-day DHL couriering" often doesn't mean exactly that when you're somewhere such as Laos, I've told my folks to send the last stuff out on Tuesday morning even if the statement hasn't arrived in that morning's post. Even if it doesn't arrive by the end of Wednesday, I could still hopefully pick it up on the way to the appointment Thursday morning.

 

I am , probably, worrying too much, and it may just turn up in Monday morning's post and all will be fine... However, the way things are in the UK recently I do worry that they've been told to refuse anyone unless everything is 100% perfect... :/

[Davidll]

Who do you bank with? I used downloaded statements for my wife's application.

[Barns]

That's very reasuring DavidII. Presuming it was successful? Thanks.

 

Did you get them stamped by the bank as authentic though? I can't do that out here in Laos.

 

I bank with Nationwide, if you can "bank" with a building society that is, so I can download the latest statement which, together with the statement dated 45 days before the completion of the application and the previous one cover about 15 months with enough savings throughout.

 

I think that should be fine and I should stop worrying, eh?

 

 

[7by7]

Paragraph 3.3.3 of the financial appendix says

Quote

Bank statements must be on official bank stationery. Alternatively, electronic bank statements can also be accepted for all bank accounts (the account itself does not have to be exclusively online) as long as they are either accompanied by a letter from the bank on its headed stationery confirming that the documents are authentic or which bear the official stamp of the issuing bank on every page.

 

Paragraph 1( a )(v) of the Immigration rules Appendix FM-SE: family members specified evidence says the same.

 

However, as already said, ECOs have the discretion to accept documents in the wrong format, particularly if it is only some of the documents in a sequence which are so. They can even ignore a missing document from a sequence, particularly if the evidence is verifiable from another source.

 

BTW, the reason for this requirement is that printouts and photocopies can easily be altered or forged; though I am sure no one here would do such a thing.

[Barns]

Well, my initial worries are over since the correct statement did finally arrive at my parents' house on Monday morning.

 

I've just got to now hope that DHL can get it here by Thursday morning. Their website advertises "before the end of the next possible day" even for their most basic worldwide delivery service, however they told my Mum it would be between 1 and 5 days...I just hope they're saying that to cover themselves if there is a delay and it won't really take 5 whole days!

 

Fingers crossed...

[Davidll]

On 17/10/2016 at 1:56 AM, Barns said:

That's very reasuring DavidII. Presuming it was successful? Thanks.

 

Did you get them stamped by the bank as authentic though? I can't do that out here in Laos.

 

I bank with Nationwide, if you can "bank" with a building society that is, so I can download the latest statement which, together with the statement dated 45 days before the completion of the application and the previous one cover about 15 months with enough savings throughout.

 

I think that should be fine and I should stop worrying, eh?

 

 

Yes she got her settlement visa after 12 working days. I was using cash savings only route.

 

all documents she used from me were scanned and sent from the UK including Nationwide and Santander.

 

if it's not sent yet I'd get the original photocopied and emailed to you as a back up in case other one does not arrive. You can always add a note saying original on its way if they need it and can be supplied if requested.

[7by7]

7 hours ago, Davidll said:

all documents she used from me were scanned and sent from the UK including Nationwide and Santander.

 

I am pleasantly surprised by this. The rules , as quoted earlier, are quite clear on this; originals or copies/print outs which have been authenticated by the issuer.

 

Whilst an ECO could, indeed I hope that they would, accept some unauthenticated copies in a sequence of original documents, I think you were lucky that in your wife's case they accepted all the documents being unauthenticated print outs.

 

Maybe the ECO didn't notice that they were scanned copies rather originals, or maybe s/he exercised their discretion above and beyond. I, personally, would not rely on either happening.

[rasg]

If you print on a decent quality laser printer many look very, very similar to originals. The Santander Internet bank statements have "this is an online document" very faintly in the background though. It's hard to see.

[Davidll]

23 minutes ago, rasg said:

If you print on a decent quality laser printer many look very, very similar to originals. The Santander Internet bank statements have "this is an online document" very faintly in the background though. It's hard to see.

I'm not saying anyone should do this but the online document background is easily removed with Adobe Acrobat Pro.  Same goes for Nationwide which has Duplicate written all over it. Gone in a click.

[Davidll]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

I am pleasantly surprised by this. The rules , as quoted earlier, are quite clear on this; originals or copies/print outs which have been authenticated by the issuer.

 

Whilst an ECO could, indeed I hope that they would, accept some unauthenticated copies in a sequence of original documents, I think you were lucky that in your wife's case they accepted all the documents being unauthenticated print outs.

 

Maybe the ECO didn't notice that they were scanned copies rather originals, or maybe s/he exercised their discretion above and beyond. I, personally, would not rely on either happening.

ECO must have known they were scanned and printed copies as originals have print on the reverse of the paper.

 

I asked two visa agents who said scanned and emailed copies would be fine as it was something I was worrying about.

 

Wife even printed them out in black and white. As you say maybe I was lucky and other supporting eveidence was enough.

 

 

[theoldgit]

ECO's do live in the real world and are fully aware of the difficulties you may encounter when trying to produce evidence to prove you meet the requirements.

Whilst they would be failing in their duties to routinely accept copies of documents, as 7by7 rightly points out, they do have evidential flexibility and they do exercise it, they're really not there to trap you or refuse genuine applicants.
Whilst there are a lot of computer programmes out there which will allow you to alter documents, ECO's aren't stupid, as I said they live in the real world, if they discover that a document has been altered the application will be refused and the applicant may be barred from making a further application for ten years.
I don't think any of you guys are suggesting evidence be falsified, but just be careful. 

[7by7]

15 hours ago, Davidll said:

I asked two visa agents who said scanned and emailed copies would be fine as it was something I was worrying about.

 

Fortunately for you, in your wife's case they were right.

 

But, as you can see from the actual rules quoted earlier, there is no guarantee that they will be; and any reputable agent should know this and so tell you that there may be a problem, even a refusal!

 

Were either of these agents OISC registered? If based in the UK then by law they must be.

[kingstonkid]

If they do not arrive in time take your phone and have the website ready to bring up ans how them.

[7by7]

Wouldn't work as the applicant does not see the ECO.

 

Documents are handed in at the UK Visa Application Centre when the applicant attends to have their biometrics taken and are then forwarded to the embassy where the ECOs are based. The UKVAC will not, indeed cannot, forward documents they are not given!

[Davidll]

9 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Fortunately for you, in your wife's case they were right.

 

But, as you can see from the actual rules quoted earlier, there is no guarantee that they will be; and any reputable agent should know this and so tell you that there may be a problem, even a refusal!

 

Were either of these agents OISC registered? If based in the UK then by law they must be.

Both agents are based in Pattaya. One did my wife's then girlfriends first visit visa. I've always used scanned documents for all UK Visa applications and one Shengen visa

 

I did read the rules but after using scanned documents in the past, asked again before the settlement visa as it's a much higher amount of money to use.

 

They did have different opinions regarding the premium bonds as acceptable savings though. One said they would be fine and the other said they needed to be cashed in. 

 

Nothing seems to be black and white.

[Barns]

If anybody's interested, I managed to finally pick up the proper, original statement from DHL yesterday afternoon, about 16 hours before the appointment later this morning.

 

Close call! But all looking good now. :)

[Farang99]

Rather more lenient than thai Immigration, which requires bank statements supporting a retirement visa to be a maximum of 7 days old and supported by a letter from the bank.

[7by7]

13 hours ago, Davidll said:

Both agents are based in Pattaya. One did my wife's then girlfriends first visit visa. I've always used scanned documents for all UK Visa applications and one Shengen visa

 

I did read the rules but after using scanned documents in the past, asked again before the settlement visa as it's a much higher amount of money to use.

 

They did have different opinions regarding the premium bonds as acceptable savings though. One said they would be fine and the other said they needed to be cashed in. 

 

Nothing seems to be black and white.

 

Agents in Thailand vary in competence and knowledge; they are not regulated as they are in the UK.

 

The only agent I would recommend is Thai Visa Express; not because they sponsor this forum, but because I know both Paul and Tony to be knowledgeable, competent and honest; they are also OISC registered in the UK.

 

Reports from their victims and other factors, such as claims to be registered with official sounding organisations which either have never heard of them or don't actually exist, show that some agents are can only be described as unscrupulous at best. Unfortunately Thailand's draconian defamation laws, and hence the forum rules, prevent me from naming them in the open forum.

 

The rules and requirements for UK visit visas and settlement visas are different. Unauthenticated print outs of scanned statements  are acceptable for a visit application, but as the rules previously quoted state are normally not acceptable for settlement ones; unless the ECO exercises what little discretion the rules allow.

 

As the UK is not and never has been a member of the Schengen area, the requirements for a Schengen visa are irrelevant.

[Davidll]

On 19/10/2016 at 9:20 PM, Barns said:

If anybody's interested, I managed to finally pick up the proper, original statement from DHL yesterday afternoon, about 16 hours before the appointment later this morning.

 

Close call! But all looking good now. :)

Sorry for the thread going a little off track.

 

Good luck with the application. Hope everything works out.