May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Khun Han]

50 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

 

The hard brexit to me appears  politically dead.

T.May reasons for holding  the election , after previuosly stating she wouldnt , was for the sole purpose to improve her brexit negotations as the other parties where attempting to frustrate the process.

The DUP,  Scottish Conservatives dont want an hard brexit, and it is difficult to see what leverage the hard brexiteers within the Conservatives rank now hold, the options avaiable are vote of no confidence and to bring the current government down , resulting in another election.

It was widely speculated that P. Hammond  was going to be sacked, however his re-apointment maybe an indication of what is to come.

Robin, don't you wonder how the Tories lost a twenty point lead against an inept, squabbling opposition which was pushing a casino manifesto? There are none so blind as those who will not see.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, pitrevie said:

"The student vote hamstrung her" if the Tory Party cannot win Kensington & Chelsea but not only that, lose it to Labour then I think you have to dig a bit deeper than that feeble excuse.

It is gratifying to know that Hard Brexiteers will be reminded of the historic Election defeat in Kensington next time they have to renew their visas at the Thai Embassy in Kensington. Even more gratifying to know that they will be making the same trip twice on successive days.

Edited June 10, 2017 by SheungWan

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

Another one who is drawing the wrong conclusions from this election.

True the Conservatives have suffered a very bad election, even though they did increase their vote. But you would be very foolish to even think this result was influenced by Brexit. Far more likely to have been that stupid and arrogant Conservative manifesto.

 Look up all the expectations of a large Conservative victory prior to the publication of that manifesto, and you will surely come to realise that it was nothing other than a suicide note.

There was also the surprisingly good opposition, which is still there.  Tories hanging by a knife edge.

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

It is gratifying to know that Hard Brexiteers will be reminded of the historic Election defeat in Kensington next time they have to renew their visas at the Thai Embassy in Kensington. Even more gratifying to know that they will be making the trip twice in successive days.

 

What on earth are you prattling on about now? Some of us actually live in the UK with our Thai families, and most others renew their visas in Thailand, where they live. Maybe you coming clean with your own immigration status would explain your ignorance? 

[Khun Han]

3 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

There was also the surprisingly good opposition, which is still there.  Tories hanging by a knife edge.

 

Corbyn is one of the good guys, for sure. But his time is not now. He is not a wartime leader (which is what we need at the moment).

[vogie]

1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

 

The hard brexit to me appears  politically dead.

T.May reasons for holding  the election , after previuosly stating she wouldnt , was for the sole purpose to improve her brexit negotations as the other parties where attempting to frustrate the process.

The DUP,  Scottish Conservatives dont want an hard brexit, and it is difficult to see what leverage the hard brexiteers within the Conservatives rank now hold, the options avaiable are vote of no confidence and to bring the current government down , resulting in another election.

It was widely speculated that P. Hammond  was going to be sacked, however his re-apointment maybe an indication of what is to come.

I don't think an hard brexit is dead, if the coalition and all other parties cannot agree on a deal after the two year period, an hard brexit will be the default outcome.

[SheungWan]

11 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

It is gratifying to know that Hard Brexiteers will be reminded of the historic Election defeat in Kensington next time they have to renew their visas at the Thai Embassy in Kensington. Even more gratifying to know that they will be making the same trip twice on successive days.

 

5 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

What on earth are you prattling on about now? Some of us actually live in the UK with our Thai families, and most others renew their visas in Thailand, where they live. Maybe you coming clean with your own immigration status would explain your ignorance? 

 

For those not needing to secure a visa from the Thai Embassy in Kensington I am providing a picture of South Kensington Station as a helpful reminder just in case they want to visit. I recommend the Starbucks opposite the station. The passing traffic can be spectacular.

 

[SheungWan]

9 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Corbyn is one of the good guys, for sure. But his time is not now. He is not a wartime leader (which is what we need at the moment).

And bunkers. We need bunkers.

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

I don't think an hard brexit is dead, if the coalition and all other parties cannot agree on a deal after the two year period, an hard brexit will be the default outcome.

 

What worries me vogie is that the Tories have quite deliberately put themselved into a weak position. The only outcome I can see is capitulation on brexit, handshakes all round with Merkel's goons and plenty of platitudes.

[Khun Han]

5 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

 

For those not needing to secure a visa from the Thai Embassy in Kensington I am providing a picture of South Kensington Station as a helpful reminder just in case they want to visit. I recommend the Starbucks opposite the station. The passing traffic can be spectacular.

 

 

I've been to the Thai Embassy twice for family member passport renewals in years gone by, and I expect other forum members have been there too. But you are waving your ignorance about again: the Embassy does an excellent outreach service to the regions in conjunction with the regional temples, on a fairly regular basis.

 

And you have still not explained your own position whilst trying to make fun of the position of others.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

What worries me vogie is that the Tories have quite deliberately put themselved into a weak position. The only outcome I can see is capitulation on brexit, handshakes all round with Merkel's goons and plenty of platitudes.

Article 50 has been triggered, I think we are past the point of no return, can you honestly see all parties agreeing on a satisfactory outcome of brexit, everybody has different beliefs. I would be very surprised if all agree on a deal after our two year period. Even an EU spokesperson on the news this morning has said he thinks an hard brexit is more likely now.

But May should take a long walk off a short pier, she has totally screwed up.

[pitrevie]

13 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

And bunkers. We need bunkers.

Within the last hour Khun Han has managed to mention Germany twice and also the war. Truly Captain Mannering is still alive and well.

[Khun Han]

Just now, vogie said:

Article 50 has been triggered, I think we are past the point of no return, can you honestly see all parties agreeing on a satisfactory outcome of brexit, everybody has different beliefs. I would be very surprised if all agree on a deal after our two year period. Even an EU spokesperson on the news this morning has said he thinks an hard brexit is more likely now.

But May should take a long walk off a short pier, she has totally screwed up.

 

Didn't the author of Article 50 state that there is a way back from it?

 

I agree with you about May. She has conned the nation. This general election was the moment when I realised that the UK doesn't run the UK, and that all our politicians are globalists' puppets or else.

[AlexRich]

Chang plus teardrops = paranoia

 

It's only the "will of the people" when we get the result that we want, if we don't get the result we want it is due to a globalist conspiracy.

 

 

[Naam]

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

4 hours ago, Naam said:

others seem to be blind to the fact that there won't be any hard Brexit. not now and not later. the hardliner Brexiteers have lost, but not willing to accept facts. reason will prevail in UK and the EU. both parties need an acceptable agreement which is a win-win. anything else is nothing but blah-blah!

Another one who is drawing the wrong conclusions from this election.

True the Conservatives have suffered a very bad election, even though they did increase their vote. But you would be very foolish to even think this result was influenced by Brexit.

my comment has nothing to do with the election results but a comment in context with "flustered's" claim that a hard Brexit is more or less unavoidable. moreover, it is a repetition of my view which i aired several times in this thread weeks or even months ago, namely "no style of Brexit some political clowns in the EU and the UK and last not least some belligerent TV-members are talking about or perhaps hoping for because it will restore the British Empire, cause the EU to implode and punish the devillish Merkel and her EU minions in Brussels."  

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, Naam said:

my comment has nothing to do with the election results but a comment in context with "flustered's" claim that a hard Brexit is more or less unavoidable. moreover, it is a repetition of my view which i aired several times in this thread weeks or even months ago, namely "no style of Brexit some political clowns in the EU and the UK and last not least some belligerent TV-members are talking about or perhaps hoping for because it will restore the British Empire, cause the EU to implode and punish the devillish Merkel and her EU minions in Brussels."  

None of my fellow imperialists I associate with share your opinions.

 

[Khun Han]

19 minutes ago, Naam said:

my comment has nothing to do with the election results but a comment in context with "flustered's" claim that a hard Brexit is more or less unavoidable. moreover, it is a repetition of my view which i aired several times in this thread weeks or even months ago, namely "no style of Brexit some political clowns in the EU and the UK and last not least some belligerent TV-members are talking about or perhaps hoping for because it will restore the British Empire, cause the EU to implode and punish the devillish Merkel and her EU minions in Brussels."  

 

We don't want to punish Merkel or her EU goons, we just want to be free of them.

[Naam]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

Any soft brexit will be a German heads-we-win, tails-you-lose deal, which is why people like you are gloating.

calling me gloating is as ridiculous as your wishful thinking of a hard Brexit.

 

reason: being a cosmopolitan who happens to carry a German and a Swiss passport, living since decades 8 to 12 flight hours distance from the EU and not paying a copper penny tax to Brussels, Berlin or Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs i care as much about a Brexit or a Bremain as i care about the price of noodle soup from a street vendor in a suburb of Nakhon Nowhere.

[sandyf]

19 hours ago, jpinx said:

That's the same as saying UK should not have held the brexit referendum in the first place........

In a nutshell, DC has a lot to answer for. The Referendum has no real place in UK politics, there have only ever been three national referendums, first two got the answer the government wanted and the third opened Pandoras's Box.

DC fell on his sword and opened the door to the wind of change but unfortunately not for the better. Teresa May has certainly got an agenda, her own and she is not a team player. This was fairly obvious within weeks when she thought she was above the law and tried to circumvent parliament, even having the arrogance to challenge the courts decision.

Two months ago, after several denials she made an opportunistic move and kicked the Fixed Term Parliaments Act into touch, an Act that her own party had brought about in 2011. The government had used that same Act to avoid a general election in 2016. To everyone around her it is do as I say and not what I do.

TM is now walking about with egg on her face and trying to make a brave face of it and I suspect that she has little choice in what happens next. The Tory party will want to remain in government and under the circumstances will not want to be involved in a leadership contest. She will have been persuaded one way or another to carry on with others now pulling the strings.

There is little doubt that the UK will leave the EU, it is now a question of what manner that exit will take. There will be a lot of wheeling and dealing going on behind closed doors to try and formulate some sort of plan to put forward. There never was going to be a good outcome merely a question of minimising the damage.

[Flustered]

7 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Yes the Tories won ......and trailing dog crap all over the carpet.

As do the quotes of the Strawman who never contributes anything useful to the thread.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Article 50 has been triggered, I think we are past the point of no return, can you honestly see all parties agreeing on a satisfactory outcome of brexit, everybody has different beliefs. I would be very surprised if all agree on a deal after our two year period. Even an EU spokesperson on the news this morning has said he thinks an hard brexit is more likely now.

But May should take a long walk off a short pier, she has totally screwed up.

We agree on something: May has totally screwed up.  And she can not possibly come back from this with her lame duck government, which is even more weak and wobbly than she is.  Next election will likely see a resounding majority...for Labour.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

We agree on something: May has totally screwed up.  And she can not possibly come back from this with her lame duck government, which is even more weak and wobbly than she is.  Next election will likely see a resounding majority...for Labour.

A week is a long time in politics!

[Flustered]

5 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Actually the conservatives were never after a hard brexit. they wanted a fair deal. What they said was if there deal wasn't fair then they would rather have no deal, so lets get that fact straight

 

There are a lo of people who were wanting a second EU referendum or wanting no brexit, also  a second Scottish referendum, crying this morning into their cornflakes. Nothing has changed much. You can sugar coat it as much as you like. Labour are not going to be in power. NS has gone with her tail between her legs. TM is still the prime minister and once the EU start giving their demands and TM starts telling the UK people what they insist on, you will see a turn from the British people and see the tyranny that they are.

 

Business as usual.

I almost wish Corbyn had won as financially we are not affected by any outcome and it would be good for all of those lefties to get a good dose of Labour economics (again). Mountains of debt due to massive borrowing to fund social projects and paying the EU  whatever they demand. All of this followed by entrepreneurs leaving the UK and taking jobs with them as higher taxes cut in. Inflation moving into double digits as we fail to raise sufficient taxes to pay our debts and then the Tories yet again having to be the party of austerity to bail the UK out.

 

These luvvies will never see reason and even if we had a Labour government, they would never admit they were wrong as long as they can draw on their benefits paid for by others.

 

And the cycle of UK life continues.

[Flustered]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

What on earth are you prattling on about now? Some of us actually live in the UK with our Thai families, and most others renew their visas in Thailand, where they live. Maybe you coming clean with your own immigration status would explain your ignorance? 

He probably does not have one. Just a school kid sitting behind his laptop.

[Naam]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

We don't want to punish Merkel or her EU goons, we just want to be free of them.

i fully agree and that's my reason why i don't live in the EU.

[jpinx]

53 minutes ago, sandyf said:

In a nutshell, DC has a lot to answer for. The Referendum has no real place in UK politics, there have only ever been three national referendums, first two got the answer the government wanted and the third opened Pandoras's Box.

DC fell on his sword and opened the door to the wind of change but unfortunately not for the better. Teresa May has certainly got an agenda, her own and she is not a team player. This was fairly obvious within weeks when she thought she was above the law and tried to circumvent parliament, even having the arrogance to challenge the courts decision.

Two months ago, after several denials she made an opportunistic move and kicked the Fixed Term Parliaments Act into touch, an Act that her own party had brought about in 2011. The government had used that same Act to avoid a general election in 2016. To everyone around her it is do as I say and not what I do.

TM is now walking about with egg on her face and trying to make a brave face of it and I suspect that she has little choice in what happens next. The Tory party will want to remain in government and under the circumstances will not want to be involved in a leadership contest. She will have been persuaded one way or another to carry on with others now pulling the strings.

There is little doubt that the UK will leave the EU, it is now a question of what manner that exit will take. There will be a lot of wheeling and dealing going on behind closed doors to try and formulate some sort of plan to put forward. There never was going to be a good outcome merely a question of minimising the damage.

Absolutely agreed - referendums (dae?) are the weapon of choice for incompetent politicians -- of which we have a sufiet these days. The only referendum results that have been respected have been those in favour of the governments stance.  Party political politics is just that - this is not like switzerland, where referendums are used much more often and competently.  The UK electorate is not capable of absorbing the implications of such a governance system, and only PR seems to be the way forward, but MP's will never agree to losing so much power.

 

TM might be seriously flawed, but she's the only trick in town for now and hopefully will have been given a sufficiently hard  slap in the face to wake her up to the realities of what's needing done.   A casual coalition with the whackos in the DUP is going to take some serious management to carry it through the passage of the multitude of bills needed to give effect to brexit. 

 

Article 50 is not irrevokable.  The author has come out many times saying that if UK wants to revoke it, they can.  Exactly how that tack would sit with Merkal, Macron, et al is a moot point as they seem to be keen to sit down and get on with brexit. 

 

 

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

We agree on something: May has totally screwed up.  And she can not possibly come back from this with her lame duck government, which is even more weak and wobbly than she is.  Next election will likely see a resounding majority...for Labour.

Re Labour winning you might be amused by the comparison with Spurs:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/jeremy-corbyn-labour-election-tottenham-10591098http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/jeremy-corbyn-labour-election-tottenham-10591098:

[Basil B]

13 minutes ago, jpinx said:

The UK electorate is not capable of absorbing the implications of such a governance system, and only PR seems to be the way forward, but MP's will never agree to losing so much power.

With over 80% belonging to two parties they know that it they are not the in power they will be within a few years under the FPTP system, interesting to hear a Labour person saying at the beginning of the election campaign there should be PR, I wonder how he voted in in the 2011 referendum? and his views on PR today?

[pitrevie]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

I almost wish Corbyn had won as financially we are not affected by any outcome and it would be good for all of those lefties to get a good dose of Labour economics (again). Mountains of debt due to massive borrowing to fund social projects and paying the EU  whatever they demand. All of this followed by entrepreneurs leaving the UK and taking jobs with them as higher taxes cut in. Inflation moving into double digits as we fail to raise sufficient taxes to pay our debts and then the Tories yet again having to be the party of austerity to bail the UK out.

 

These luvvies will never see reason and even if we had a Labour government, they would never admit they were wrong as long as they can draw on their benefits paid for by others.

 

And the cycle of UK life continues.

I have already posted the link that shows Tory governments have more debt and pay of less of it than Labour ones even allowing for the 2008 financial meltdown.In fact since the Tories have been in power they have increased the debt by over 50%.. The debt has almost doubled since 2008-9 so far from bailing us out they have dug us deeper in.

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, Naam said:

calling me gloating is as ridiculous as your wishful thinking of a hard Brexit.

 

reason: being a cosmopolitan who happens to carry a German and a Swiss passport, living since decades 8 to 12 flight hours distance from the EU and not paying a copper penny tax to Brussels, Berlin or Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs i care as much about a Brexit or a Bremain as i care about the price of noodle soup from a street vendor in a suburb of Nakhon Nowhere.

You're the typical Brit?