May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Also clowns who spout on about how great there privileged grammar education should realize that the people voted to leave not remain, in any capacity.

 

I would suggest it is time to grow up Grouse and if you are trying to get your point across which shown you were totally incorrect on education level and what people voted for in the referendum, you are not doing it well.

There was a very clear correlation between tertiary education level and being pro-remain. Just because the majority voted leave does not make them correct. I am not claiming causation but it is a remarkable coincidence!

 

Now peeps, what about the substance of my post? It is senseless to weaken our position when it is obvious that many wish to remain in the customs union and the free market. I suggest to you that by 2021 that will be a majority. It seems to me that the Brexiters can see this and wish to "lock in" this ghastly error of judgement.

 

BTW Laughing Gravy, I can not decode what, exactly, was the point you were endeavouring to make. Maybe you could rephrase it?

 

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Grouse

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Mods, can we please have a concerted effort to sort out this nonsense? Surely it's time to stop all the goading and personal insults (no matter how much they are cloaked in generalisation, no matter what the personal allegiances are). Most of us want to have intelligent discussion, but we're human beings, who react to being provoked. Help us out here.

Then debate the very valid points I raise. What did you find insulting? 

[SheungWan]

It would appear from Bloomberg that the Brexiteers haven't got a clue now what they want from the negotiations (other than vague grandiose statements plus of course, stabbing the Prime Minister in the back) which probably explains why some here are having a whinge right now, the poor lost souls. https://tinyurl.com/y7x8x233

 

[adammike]

25 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Then debate the very valid points I raise. What did you find insulting? 

You and me and others not bowing down to his obvious superior intellect and agreeing with everything he writes."I know my place" 

[aright]

22 hours ago, SheungWan said:

The giveaway is the provincial idea that any sophisticated bar in London would bother discussing John Smiths beer. The second is that a customer would just order 'whiskey', or even 'whisky' for that matter. That might go for some local place 'oop North but in London it would be brand at the very least. So what we are left with is the usual Brexiteer conceit of being too intellectually lazy to do their research. Even with the jokes.

What a petty, over intellectualised, personal response. It was a joke for god's sake.  I know you are proud of your grammar school education but it does keep getting you into trouble. Not knowing that Rolls Royce Holdings don't produce cars (what does that say about intellectual laziness ) and now not knowing that Americans prefer  whiskey to whisky. Did you understand the joke?

[SheungWan]

Tory split shambles threatens Brexit negotiations: https://tinyurl.com/ycha7ep2

[mommysboy]

Rarely post on this subject these days.  Just feel the need to point out this is panning out in the worst possible way many of us predicted from day one.  This Brexit issue is merely about a totally incompetent government ignoring real issues, trying to embroil us all in its own argument to deflect from the fact that it is utterly impotent.

 

That a Tory administration seems oblivious to national economic interests simply defies belief!

[SheungWan]

7 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Rarely post on this subject these days.  Just feel the need to point out this is panning out in the worst possible way many of us predicted from day one.  This Brexit issue is merely about a totally incompetent government ignoring real issues, trying to embroil us all in its own argument to deflect from the fact that it is utterly impotent.

That a Tory administration seems oblivious to national economic interests simply defies belief!

'Defies belief'

[sandyf]

Getting more like Noel Edmonds every day, Deal or no Deal. It got axed in the end.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-updates-david-davis-michel-barnier-eu-transition-deal-theresa-may-tory-talks-a8190886.html

 

[Grouse]

11 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Rarely post on this subject these days.  Just feel the need to point out this is panning out in the worst possible way many of us predicted from day one.  This Brexit issue is merely about a totally incompetent government ignoring real issues, trying to embroil us all in its own argument to deflect from the fact that it is utterly impotent.

 

That a Tory administration seems oblivious to national economic interests simply defies belief!

You are absolutely correct!

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-secret-impact-assessments-government-theresa-may-david-davis-a8187796.html

 

How can a Tory "government" be so anti business and economically comical?

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Grouse

[talahtnut]

On 2/2/2018 at 6:47 AM, mommysboy said:

Rarely post on this subject these days.  Just feel the need to point out this is panning out in the worst possible way many of us predicted from day one.  This Brexit issue is merely about a totally incompetent government ignoring real issues, trying to embroil us all in its own argument to deflect from the fact that it is utterly impotent.

 

That a Tory administration seems oblivious to national economic interests simply defies belief!

Its not only a Tory problem..its any party's problem. Groups of very bright people can be collectively stupid (a phenomena Irving L. Janis called "groupthink")‐‐whereas very ordinary or dull people can,under the right circumstances, generate real wisdom, in UK governments we have "thinktanks" etc., ..sounds impressive, but has merely created an unsustainable economy, and a divided society.

 

[Laughing Gravy]

17 hours ago, Grouse said:

There was a very clear correlation between tertiary education level and being pro-remain. Just because the majority voted leave does not make them correct. I am not claiming causation but it is a remarkable coincidence!

 

Now peeps, what about the substance of my post? It is senseless to weaken our position when it is obvious that many wish to remain in the customs union and the free market. I suggest to you that by 2021 that will be a majority. It seems to me that the Brexiters can see this and wish to "lock in" this ghastly error of judgement.

 

BTW Laughing Gravy, I can not decode what, exactly, was the point you were endeavouring to make. Maybe you could rephrase it?

 

 

I remember all your posts and we have had a big discussion on education before. You wanted to know my educational background and I told you. I also mentioned I have many friends who are educated that voted to leave which crushed your hypothesis which you were implying, that educated (which I still don't believe has anything to do with voting) people wouldn't have voted leave. This is old ground and quite frankly boring. I do feel with you posts on the fact that having 3 university degrees you are trying to belittle me. I wonder do you have a complex about it? Have I one more than you. In my field they are part of work, so nothing special. I certainly don't and as I have stated before, some of the most stupidest people I have met, have Degrees, Masters degrees and Doctorates.

[Laughing Gravy]

One of the main reasons this thread is still going in my opinion, is that the government are incompetent and May does not want to get the UK out of the EU, which is what I want and everyone who I know wants, who voted leave. If she did there would be not much to complain about. Sadly she isn't. She is dragging her feet and as I suspected from the beginning after winning the leadership title, will do her best to keep the UK in the EU, except by name. 

 

The sooner she and Hammond are gone and someone who actually believes in Brexit is leading then the UK can do exactly what the people voted for.

[SheungWan]

40 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

One of the main reasons this thread is still going in my opinion, is that the government are incompetent and May does not want to get the UK out of the EU, which is what I want and everyone who I know wants, who voted leave. If she did there would be not much to complain about. Sadly she isn't. She is dragging her feet and as I suspected from the beginning after winning the leadership title, will do her best to keep the UK in the EU, except by name. 

The sooner she and Hammond are gone and someone who actually believes in Brexit is leading then the UK can do exactly what the people voted for.

Brexiteer Spice Girl goes for it:

 

Yo, I'll tell you what I want
What I really, really want
So tell me what you want
What you really, really want

I'll tell you what I want
What I really, really want
So tell me what you want
What you really, really want

I wanna, (ha) I wanna, (ha)
I wanna, (ha) I wanna, (ha)
I wanna really, really, really

Wanna zigazig ah

 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

One of the main reasons this thread is still going in my opinion, is that the government are incompetent and May does not want to get the UK out of the EU, which is what I want and everyone who I know wants, who voted leave. If she did there would be not much to complain about. 

Surely this is worth complaining about?

"The government's new analysis of the impact of Brexit says the UK would be worse off outside the European Union under every scenario modelled, BuzzFeed News can reveal."

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

One of the main reasons this thread is still going in my opinion, is that the government are incompetent and May does not want to get the UK out of the EU, which is what I want and everyone who I know wants, who voted leave. If she did there would be not much to complain about. Sadly she isn't. She is dragging her feet and as I suspected from the beginning after winning the leadership title, will do her best to keep the UK in the EU, except by name. 

 

The sooner she and Hammond are gone and someone who actually believes in Brexit is leading then the UK can do exactly what the people voted for.

"One of the main reasons this thread is still going in my opinion, is that the government are incompetent and May does not want to get the UK out of the EU"

 

"will do her best to keep the UK in the EU, except by name."

 

I have no doubt you're right - but to look on the bright side, I gather May is standing firm on  'open borders' closing at the end of the article 50 period?

Edited February 3, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I remember all your posts and we have had a big discussion on education before. You wanted to know my educational background and I told you. I also mentioned I have many friends who are educated that voted to leave which crushed your hypothesis which you were implying, that educated (which I still don't believe has anything to do with voting) people wouldn't have voted leave. This is old ground and quite frankly boring. I do feel with you posts on the fact that having 3 university degrees you are trying to belittle me. I wonder do you have a complex about it? Have I one more than you. In my field they are part of work, so nothing special. I certainly don't and as I have stated before, some of the most stupidest people I have met, have Degrees, Masters degrees and Doctorates.

Haha! Crushed? Not even dented! I am merely stating facts. It is also a fact that you and coterie do not understand stats. The fact that you have a friend whom you consider bright and has at least one level of tertiary education proves nothing; that's NOTHING for the hard of hearing. I re-iterate, there is a direct correlation between tertiary educational achievement and voting remain. Now I was once accused of being a physicist who could spell! The bastards. I couldn't accuse you of that!

 

Now, can we debate the valid points I raised? Cheers!

 

 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

One of the main reasons this thread is still going in my opinion, is that the government are incompetent and May does not want to get the UK out of the EU, which is what I want and everyone who I know wants, who voted leave. If she did there would be not much to complain about. Sadly she isn't. She is dragging her feet and as I suspected from the beginning after winning the leadership title, will do her best to keep the UK in the EU, except by name. 

 

The sooner she and Hammond are gone and someone who actually believes in Brexit is leading then the UK can do exactly what the people voted for.

Why don't you (or one of your highly educated, but not stupid friends) stand! Go on!

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Grouse said:

Haha! Crushed? Not even dented! I am merely stating facts. It is also a fact that you and coterie do not understand stats. The fact that you have a friend whom you consider bright and has at least one level of tertiary education proves nothing; that's NOTHING for the hard of hearing. I re-iterate, there is a direct correlation between tertiary educational achievement and voting remain. Now I was once accused of being a physicist who could spell! The bastards. I couldn't accuse you of that!

 

Now, can we debate the valid points I raised? Cheers!

 

 

 

"Now I was once accused of being a physicist who could spell! The bastards. I couldn't accuse you of that!"

 

And we're back to insults - although the above is at least a personal insult....

 

 You fail to understand that many of us equate the leave voting areas with the poor areas, rather than your (and the media) interpretation of the uneducated.

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

"One of the main reasons this thread is still going in my opinion, is that the government are incompetent and May does not want to get the UK out of the EU"

 

"will do her best to keep the UK in the EU, except by name."

 

I have no doubt you're right - but to look on the bright side, I gather May is standing firm on  'open borders' closing at the end of the article 50 period?

What open borders? We have passport control do we not? As far as EU citizens are concerned, they're leaving in droves. Ever asked yourself why?

 

From what I've been hearing it would take a very large (male obviously) salary to overcome our EU friends' natural reluctance to wish to be exposed to British attitudes to foreigners 

 

In that sense, you win. Congratulations. Let's see if all the jobs are taken by the downtrodden highly trained clods!

 

So having sorted immigration from the EU, why not keep the benefits of the single market and the customs union? Why formally consign all our hardwon privileges to the bin when in 2022 or sooner we'll be back. Much better to just postpone leaving ?

Edited February 3, 2018 by Grouse

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

"Now I was once accused of being a physicist who could spell! The bastards. I couldn't accuse you of that!"

 

And we're back to insults - although the above is at least a personal insult....

 

 You fail to understand that many of us equate the leave voting areas with the poor areas, rather than your (and the media) interpretation of the uneducated.

 

Accusing someone of being a physicist?

 

Do think there is a correlation between poor education and being poor? I bet there is ?

 

Now can we please get back to the debate? Failing which I'll join you in another month

Edited February 3, 2018 by Grouse

[dick dasterdly]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

What oprt control do we not? As far as EU citizens are concerned, they're leaving in droves. Ever asked yourself why?en borders? We have passpo

 

From what I've been hearing it would take a very salary to overcome our EU friends' natural reluctance to wish to be exposed to British attitudes to foreigners 

 

In that sense, you win. Congratulations. Let's see if all the jobs are taken by the downtrodden highly trained clods!

 

So having sorted immigration from the EU, why not keep the benefits of the single market and the customs union? Why formally consign all our hardwon privileges to the bin when in 2022 or sooner we'll be back. Much better to just postpone leaving ?

"What oprt control do we not?"

 

No, anyone with an EU passport is allowed entry.

 

"As far as EU citizens are concerned, they're leaving in droves."

 

I doubt those in well-paid jobs are "leaving in droves", and doubt those in low-paid jobs are doing so either.....

 

"Let's see if all the jobs are taken by the downtrodden highly trained clods!"

 

Pretty much sums up your empathy towards the poor in the UK .

[dick dasterdly]

16 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Do think there is a correlation between poor education and being poor? I bet there is ?

Of course there's a correlation between being poor, and thereby likely uneducated!

 

This doesn't change the fact that the poor have an entirely different reality to the wealthy and educated.

 

But I have no doubt you will agree that many of those with a degree are as thick as 2 short planks. 

[Grouse]

8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"What oprt control do we not?"

 

No, anyone with an EU passport is allowed entry.

 

"As far as EU citizens are concerned, they're leaving in droves."

 

I doubt those in well-paid jobs are "leaving in droves", and doubt those in low-paid jobs are doing so either.....

 

"Let's see if all the jobs are taken by the downtrodden highly trained clods!"

 

Pretty much sums up your empathy towards the poor in the UK .

"What open borders? We have passport control do we not? As far as EU citizens are concerned, they're leaving in droves. Ever asked yourself why?

 

From what I've been hearing it would take a very large (male obviously) salary to overcome our EU friends' natural reluctance to wish to be exposed to British attitudes to foreigners 

 

In that sense, you win. Congratulations. Let's see if all the jobs are taken by the downtrodden highly trained clods!

 

So having sorted immigration from the EU, why not keep the benefits of the single market and the customs union? Why formally consign all our hardwon privileges to the bin when in 2022 or sooner we'll be back. Much better to just postpone leaving ?"

 

Do do you have an internet problem or do I?

 

anyway, we have never have been in Schengen. You may be apprehended at any UK border.

 

EU doctors in particular ARE leaving.

 

As for lower paid staff have you seen the latest statistics for nurses. EU people don't take kindly to our Xenophobic nastiness.

 

As for empathy, pah! I worked hard as a young man. If people don't study and work hard, don't blame me. Why have we got so very many vacancies with employment at 4%?

 

You will find that unemployment will increase as we get richer. It's NOTHING to do with the EU. It is being driven by robotics, automation and AI. Now that is what should be debated. Let the machines do the work but share the benefits. Right now capital takes all.

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Of course there's a correlation between being poor, and thereby likely uneducated!

 

This doesn't change the fact that the poor have an entirely different reality to the wealthy and educated.

 

But I have no doubt you will agree that many of those with a degree are as thick as 2 short planks. 

It'll be a Gaussian distribution with outliers at both ends. Thick at one end and geniuses at the other. Me? Upper quartile I guess. Do you want to discuss the mean or standard deviations? 6 sigma is where it's at!

 

Why do you never talk about the really smart types at the RHS of the curve?

 

You confuse my point. I contend there IS a causal link between financial adequacy and education. Primary and secondary education are free as should tertiary (loans are available) your contention that "the poor" can not afford education is fatuous; they don't wish to learn!

 

Now, again, let's get back to the poInts I made about Brexit?

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Grouse said:

"What open borders? We have passport control do we not? As far as EU citizens are concerned, they're leaving in droves. Ever asked yourself why?

 

From what I've been hearing it would take a very large (male obviously) salary to overcome our EU friends' natural reluctance to wish to be exposed to British attitudes to foreigners 

 

In that sense, you win. Congratulations. Let's see if all the jobs are taken by the downtrodden highly trained clods!

 

So having sorted immigration from the EU, why not keep the benefits of the single market and the customs union? Why formally consign all our hardwon privileges to the bin when in 2022 or sooner we'll be back. Much better to just postpone leaving ?"

 

Do do you have an internet problem or do I?

 

anyway, we have never have been in Schengen. You may be apprehended at any UK border.

 

EU doctors in particular ARE leaving.

 

As for lower paid staff have you seen the latest statistics for nurses. EU people don't take kindly to our Xenophobic nastiness.

 

As for empathy, pah! I worked hard as a young man. If people don't study and work hard, don't blame me. Why have we got so very many vacancies with employment at 4%?

 

You will find that unemployment will increase as we get richer. It's NOTHING to do with the EU. It is being driven by robotics, automation and AI. Now that is what should be debated. Let the machines do the work but share the benefits. Right now capital takes all.

"Do do you have an internet problem or do I?"

 

I think you have a keyboard problem.

[dick dasterdly]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It'll be a Gaussian distribution with outliers at both ends. Thick at one end and geniuses at the other. Me? Upper quartile I guess. Do you want to discuss the mean or standard deviations? 6 sigma is where it's at!

 

Why do you never talk about the really smart types at the RHS of the curve?

 

You confuse my point. I contend there IS a causal link between financial adequacy and education. Primary and secondary education are free as should tertiary (loans are available) your contention that "the poor" can not afford education is fatuous; they don't wish to learn!

 

Now, again, let's get back to the poInts I made about Brexit?

I find it more than amusing that you need to keep pointing out how intelligent you are (and of course, those that agree with you) .

 

I answered the point re. the poor and uneducated - but clearly it's important to keep referring to the "uneducated - rather than the poor with an entirely different outlook (edit - and reality) on life....  

Edited February 3, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Laughing Gravy]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Surely this is worth complaining about?

"The government's new analysis of the impact of Brexit says the UK would be worse off outside the European Union under every scenario modelled, BuzzFeed News can reveal."

If you research the company who came up with this report have a vested interest in the UK keeping in the EU and also said that the UK would be in a deep recession straight after the referendum result. Possible George Osborne works for them.

[Grouse]

14 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Do do you have an internet problem or do I?"

 

I think you have a keyboard problem.

Could be my iPhone

 

However my post was mirrored perfectly

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Why don't you (or one of your highly educated, but not stupid friends) stand! Go on!

Even with your superior intelligence must know that when one resides in Thailand, one can't. I wont reply to your other post, as I can't stop laughing. I am seeing a definite childish side to your posts. Enjoy your food and beer.