May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Seems a stupid thing to say with a general election coming up!

 

Is he a fanatical remainer, and so prepared to throw his party under the bus in support of the remain cause?

 

Genuine question as I can see no reason why a top politician would talk about increasing taxes shortly before a general election.

He'll be the first casualty in her new cabinet, assuming they win and he keeps his seat.

[AlexRich]

3 hours ago, pitrevie said:

Wilbur Ross, President Donald Trump's Commerce secretary, has urged other countries to exploit the "God-given opportunity" to steal business from the U.K. This is one of the people now tasked with negotiating that trade deal.

 

I recall the Brexiteer claims made on here after the referendum:

 

1) We can do all these amazing trade deals with the US, China, India, etc ... seems that the US have prioritised EU trade .... makes sense as it is a 500m population market. 

 

2) They need us more than we need them ... the Germans would never lose those car sales ... looks like the EU  and Germans have different ideas.

 

3) We can take control of our immigration ... except when it interferes with business interests or trade talks ... when we are actually not that fussed.

 

4) We can spend an extra £350m per week on public services ... well, it was never £350m was it ... and all savings and more will be channeled into paying a bill to the EU, which will write that extra money off for half a decade.

 

5) Best get out of the EU before it collapses ... except the biggest transfer of funds from the US markets to EU markets in years is taking place and EU growth is picking up ... the reality is that trade blocs go through ups and downs, but ultimately they recover.

 

Taking back control .... or just taking leave of our senses?

 

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Seems a stupid thing to say with a general election coming up!

 

Is he a fanatical remainer, and so prepared to throw his party under the bus in support of the remain cause?

 

Genuine question as I can see no reason why a top politician would talk about increasing taxes shortly before a general election.

 

21 minutes ago, Grouse said:

To give himself room for manoeuvre following the NIC debacle. He will need it ?

 

21 minutes ago, evadgib said:

He'll be the first casualty in her new cabinet, assuming they win and he keeps his seat.

Can't see how talking about increasing taxes 'gives him room' following the NIC debacle?  It just makes him even more of a liability to the Tory campaign.

 

Seems more likely that evagib is right - he knows he is on the way out of the cabinet and, (my interpretation, not evadgib's) is prepared to say anything to promote support for the remain campaign?

Edited April 22, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, pitrevie said:

Wilbur Ross, President Donald Trump's Commerce secretary, has urged other countries to exploit the "God-given opportunity" to steal business from the U.K. This is one of the people now tasked with negotiating that trade deal.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/donald-trump-britain-back-queue-trade-deal-eu-angela-merkel-brexit-a7696376.html

 

confirmed here

[AlexRich]

18 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

Can't see how talking about increasing taxes 'gives him room' following the NIC debacle?  It just makes him even more of a liability to the Tory campaign.

 

Seems more likely that evagib is right - he knows he is on the way out of the cabinet and, (my interpretation, not evadgib's) is prepared to say anything to promote support for the remain campaign?

 

I don't think so. Both Hammond and May want to have as much flexibility as possible to have maximum flexibility to make fiscal adjustments and don't want to be tied down by a manifesto promise that relates to a different era. The Brexit negotiations will be tough going and will necessitate policies like the abandoned NIC hike. They figure that they can get away with this as they have an unassailable lead in the polls and are likely to win the election with a strengthened majority. 

 

Hammond is not a rabid remainer but he is pragmatic and not a zealot like Fox, Davis, Duncan-Smith ... a hard Brexit will hit companies and the economy, and he'll be blamed if anything goes wrong. So he needs as much flexibility in policy as possible.

[Srikcir]

Another Trump reversal. During his campaign and by Presidential Order he withdrew the US from TTIP.

Now:

Paul Ryan, the Republican House speaker, gave the biggest hint yet that TTIP could be resurrected. Ryan said: “Now that Article 50 has been invoked, the UK and EU will determine the best path forward . . . We want the parties to come together and strike a lasting agreement. A strong UK-EU relationship is in all of our best interests ....  [while] the US will continue to work closely with our EU friends and chart a path forward on TTIP negotiations.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/trump-puts-eu-ahead-of-britain-in-trade-queue-l7t8zwn7k

(sorry may be restricted access)

[dick dasterdly]

4 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

I don't think so. Both Hammond and May want to have as much flexibility as possible to have maximum flexibility to make fiscal adjustments and don't want to be tied down by a manifesto promise that relates to a different era. The Brexit negotiations will be tough going and will necessitate policies like the abandoned NIC hike. They figure that they can get away with this as they have an unassailable lead in the polls and are likely to win the election with a strengthened majority. 

 

Hammond is not a rabid remainer but he is pragmatic and not a zealot like Fox, Davis, Duncan-Smith ... a hard Brexit will hit companies and the economy, and he'll be blamed if anything goes wrong. So he needs as much flexibility in policy as possible.

So talking about tax increases shortly before a general election is a sound move to boost Tory party votes?

[Grouse]

23 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

Can't see how talking about increasing taxes 'gives him room' following the NIC debacle?  It just makes him even more of a liability to the Tory campaign.

 

Seems more likely that evagib is right - he knows he is on the way out of the cabinet and, (my interpretation, not evadgib's) is prepared to say anything to promote support for the remain campaign?

He needs to ditch pre-exiting Tory commitments BEFORE the election to avoid being hoist on a Tory petard

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Grouse said:

He needs to ditch pre-exiting Tory commitments BEFORE the election to avoid being hoist on a Tory petard

So he's thinking about being hoist on "a Tory petard" even before the general election vote?

 

A bit short-sighted as talking about tax increases is likely to reduce Tory votes - which makes him even more likely to lose his job.

[AlexRich]

8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

So talking about tax increases shortly before a general election is a sound move to boost Tory party votes?

I don't think that it will impact them greatly ... Labour is in total disarray, they are proposing high rate tax on anyone earning over £70k; the Liberals have become an anti-Brexit party and may do well but not enough to reduce the Tory majority. The SNP already dominate in Scotland so there won't be much change there. Labour will be the biggest loser.

 

If the Brexit negotiations result in a "no deal" scenario Hammond will need to have a blank piece of paper, he won't want his hands tied by a manifesto. I think most voters understand that.

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

So he's thinking about being hoist on "a Tory petard" even before the general election vote?

 

A bit short-sighted as talking about tax increases is likely to reduce Tory votes - which makes him even more likely to lose his job.

He got a beating for increasing NIC in the last budget because increases had been excluded in an earlier manifesto. I conclude that he is giving warning that earlier promises are now off. Watch for NIC increases returning ?

[AlexRich]

10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

So he's thinking about being hoist on "a Tory petard" even before the general election vote?

 

A bit short-sighted as talking about tax increases is likely to reduce Tory votes - which makes him even more likely to lose his job.

 

What other part will benefit from  the lost votes? Not Labour. Liberals? Not if you are a Brexit fan, and their tax policies likely to be more harsh. UKIP? They are useless.

[pitrevie]

32 minutes ago, Grouse said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/donald-trump-britain-back-queue-trade-deal-eu-angela-merkel-brexit-a7696376.html

 

confirmed here

As Kenneth Clarke said in the Commons, "Nice men like President Trump are just impatient to abandon their normal protectionism and give us access!" and another promise goes up in smoke.

I wonder why Trump thinks its easier and more profitable to negotiate one trade deal with 27 countries rather than with the UK, for the life of me I cannot understand the logic.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, AlexRich said:

I don't think that it will impact them greatly ... Labour is in total disarray, they are proposing high rate tax on anyone earning over £70k; the Liberals have become an anti-Brexit party and may do well but not enough to reduce the Tory majority. The SNP already dominate in Scotland so there won't be much change there. Labour will be the biggest loser.

 

If the Brexit negotiations result in a "no deal" scenario Hammond will need to have a blank piece of paper, he won't want his hands tied by a manifesto. I think most voters understand that.

It suddenly makes sense - Hammond has suddenly decided to talk about increasing taxes (just before an election), because he knows the Tories will win and so there is no reason not to tell the electorate .

 

I give up.

[pitrevie]

14 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

It suddenly makes sense - Hammond has suddenly decided to talk about increasing taxes (just before an election), because he knows the Tories will win and so there is no reason not to tell the electorate .

 

I give up.

Hammond has stated the  flagship 2015 policy had constrained his ability to manage the economy. He has already stated that Brexit has blown a 122 billion pound hole in the public finances and he knows what is coming and it isn't a Big Red Bus.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

It suddenly makes sense - Hammond has suddenly decided to talk about increasing taxes (just before an election), because he knows the Tories will win and so there is no reason not to tell the electorate .

 

I give up.

 

Hammond (and May) don't know what the outcome of the Brexit negotiations will be, but they are smart enough to know today that the EU is taking a harder and more united line than the Brexiteers expected ... so they need as much flexibility as possible in fiscal matters to deal with whatever arises post-Brexit ... that makes perfect sense to me ... and they are calculating that the impact on the electorate will be minuscule. What's the alternative for the electorate? 

 

 

 

 

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, pitrevie said:

Hammond has stated the  flagship 2015 policy had constrained his ability to manage the economy. He has already stated that Brexit has blown a 122 billion pound hole in the public finances and he knows what is coming and it isn't a Big Red Bus.

Has he missed the bus?

[sandyf]

Is the tough talking getting her anywhere?

 

"The former Belgian prime minister said Ms May’s “tough negotiating red lines and her lack of room for manoeuvre” had alienated figures in Brussels and made a trade deal less likely."

“European leaders are preparing for customs controls to be introduced from Brexit day in March 2019,” he said.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/guy-verhofstadt-theresa-power-grab-general-election-8-june-brexit-european-parliament-a7697086.html

 

Of course this Guy is EU parliament and not actually involved in the negotiations, just part of the so called "unelected bureaucracy", what would he know.

[AlexRich]

Looks like Macron will lead France, and not Le Pen ... so the imminent EU implosion will have  to wait ... or may in fact never happen? 

[Johnyo]

Looks like Macron will lead France, and not Le Pen ... so the imminent EU implosion will have  to wait ... or may in fact never happen? 

Shhhhhh you're waking up the Brexiteers from their wet dreams.


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[nontabury]

2 hours ago, Johnyo said:

 

Shhhhhh you're waking up the Brexiteers from their wet dreams.


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Agree that the puppet Macron will most likely win the 2nd round. But will that stop the earthquake.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, Johnyo said:

 

Shhhhhh you're waking up the Brexiteers from their wet dreams.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

Well according to the BBC there is only 2.5% difference between Macron and Le Pen with the next round to go. Those other votes are now up for grabs and I for one would certainly not predict a winner at this point in time.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39689385

 

With 97% of votes counted, Mr Macron stands at 23.9% with Ms Le Pen on 21.4%.

Their nearest challengers, centre-right François Fillon and hard-left Jean-Luc Mélenchon, fell behind, with just over 19% each.

[Johnyo]

 
Well according to the BBC there is only 2.5% difference between Macron and Le Pen with the next round to go. Those other votes are now up for grabs and I for one would certainly not predict a winner at this point in time.
 
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39689385
 
With 97% of votes counted, Mr Macron stands at 23.9% with Ms Le Pen on 21.4%.
Their nearest challengers, centre-right François Fillon and hard-left Jean-Luc Mélenchon, fell behind, with just over 19% each.

In this case it's a foregone conclusion. The vast majority of the remaining 55 % will most likely vote for Macron.

On a side note what is it with you Brexiteers wanting the EU to implode? Enjoy your victory and simply wish the best for the rest. Don't forget there are a lot of ordinary people with savings and pensions in EUR and the EU imploding would harm their finances.


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[pitrevie]

7 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

In this case it's a foregone conclusion. The vast majority of the remaining 55 % will most likely vote for Macron.

On a side note what is it with you Brexiteers wanting the EU to implode? Enjoy your victory and simply wish the best for the rest. Don't forget there are a lot of ordinary people with savings and pensions in EUR and the EU imploding would harm their finances.


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I agree I have never seen so many people hoping that something will fail that will now have nothing to do with them. I cannot recall following the huge majority in favour of remaining in the EEC in 1975  such venom being directed to those that lost that referendum. Or even death threats against those that campaigned for Remain. I do wish one of those that want such an outcome would explain how will that benefit the UK.

[dick dasterdly]

45 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

In this case it's a foregone conclusion. The vast majority of the remaining 55 % will most likely vote for Macron.

On a side note what is it with you Brexiteers wanting the EU to implode? Enjoy your victory and simply wish the best for the rest. Don't forget there are a lot of ordinary people with savings and pensions in EUR and the EU imploding would harm their finances.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Re. the second paragraph, I suspect its a result of the EU promising a 'bad deal/'punishment' deal etc. etc. - hardly endearing to those who seriously dislike the EU in the first place!

 

The EU imploding is likely to be bad news for all concerned (including the UK), but I'm at a loss as to why the EU is making no attempt to address the concerns that resulted in Brexit and discontent in other EU countries.  Rather than addressing these concerns they seem to be becoming even more determined to continue - and ignore discontent.

[pitrevie]

42 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Re. the second paragraph, I suspect its a result of the EU promising a 'bad deal/'punishment' deal etc. etc. - hardly endearing to those who seriously dislike the EU in the first place!

 

The EU imploding is likely to be bad news for all concerned (including the UK), but I'm at a loss as to why the EU is making no attempt to address the concerns that resulted in Brexit and discontent in other EU countries.  Rather than addressing these concerns they seem to be becoming even more determined to continue - and ignore discontent.

We were getting these responses long before the Brexit vote even took place, not least from Farage it was almost his mantra.

[nontabury]

8 hours ago, pitrevie said:

I agree I have never seen so many people hoping that something will fail that will now have nothing to do with them. I cannot recall following the huge majority in favour of remaining in the EEC in 1975  such venom being directed to those that lost that referendum. Or even death threats against those that campaigned for Remain. I do wish one of those that want such an outcome would explain how will that benefit the UK.

In 1975 those who voted against joining the EEC, by and large accepted the decision. I certainly don't recall demonstration by an un-democratic element.

 

Earlier on in this thread you asked if I thought the People should be granted another referendum,when we know the outcome of the negotiations,as that is what you beleive in. I said that's O.K with me. But what about other Remoaners.

 

 

 

[Flustered]

13 minutes ago, nontabury said:

In 1975 those who voted against joining the EEC, by and large accepted the decision. I certainly don't recall demonstration by an un-democratic element.

 

Earlier on in this thread you asked if I thought the People should be granted another referendum,when we know the outcome of the negotiations,as that is what you beleive in. I said that's O.K with me. But what about other Remoaners.

 

 

 

I think that the overwhelming majority of UK citizens would be very happy to sign up for the original EEC. It was all we ever wanted. An ECONOMIC union, not the political one that no one has ever had the opportunity to vote on. Both parties took us deeper and deeper in without ever asking the UK public if they wanted it. All politicians wanted it so as to get their snouts deeper into EU jobs and freebies.

 

At last the British public have spoken and they have said."No way Jose". The Irish did as well but they were made to vote again until they said yes to staying in.

[AlexRich]

14 hours ago, Johnyo said:

 

Shhhhhh you're waking up the Brexiteers from their wet dreams.


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I know ... I felt bad ... Sgt Rock will take this hard ... as will his acolytes! 

 

[AlexRich]

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Well according to the BBC there is only 2.5% difference between Macron and Le Pen with the next round to go. Those other votes are now up for grabs and I for one would certainly not predict a winner at this point in time.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39689385

 

With 97% of votes counted, Mr Macron stands at 23.9% with Ms Le Pen on 21.4%.

Their nearest challengers, centre-right François Fillon and hard-left Jean-Luc Mélenchon, fell behind, with just over 19% each.

 

I'll predict a winner ... Macron.