May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I hope all these Brexiteers concerned about a 'free and bold future' for their native land will be returning home to help with the great experiment and great leap forward rather than just tapping away in their air-conditioned condos sipping their Changs. I won't be holding my breath anytime soon.

I think you will find in the United Republic of Pattaya that members of the People's Popular Front for Brexit never ever turn on the air-con unless completely desperate and as for beer the tipple of choice would be Leo. Sip, sip.

[beautifulthailand99]

11 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

I think you will find in the United Republic of Pattaya that members of the People's Popular Front for Brexit never ever turn on the air-con unless completely desperate and as for beer the tipple of choice would be Leo. Sip, sip.

and they would be  good for what exactly !? Best they stay there and keep the pressure off the UK NHS and with Chang singlet, patriotic tattoos - raise a Chang and in unison sing God Save The Queen - the world's current longest reigning monarch. 

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

and they would be  good for what exactly !? Best they stay there and keep the pressure off the UK NHS and with Chang singlet, patriotic tattoos - raise a Chang and in unison sing God Save The Queen - the world's current longest reigning monarch. 

Not sure what point you are wanting to make in context of the debate over Brexit. Some are in Thailand, others are in the UK and then there are those of us more like Schrodingers Cat in more places than one. And that applies to individuals on both sides of the divide. Good to know that you don't wear singlets. Fine upstanding fellow.

[beautifulthailand99]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

Not sure what point you are wanting to make in context of the debate over Brexit. Some are in Thailand, others are in the UK and then there are those of us more like Schrodingers Cat in more places than one. And that applies to individuals on both sides of the divide. Good to know that you don't wear singlets. Fine upstanding fellow.

I apologise a cheap jibe - I find a lot of reprehensible Brits in Thailand hanging out in the bars , with a cheap line in casual and not so casual racism and my advancing more liberal years  a pain to be with. Brexit has heightened in my eyes at least the narrow-mindeness of a lot of my fellow man. That said this is a forum where folk are debating in  a civil and mostly rational manner the pros and the cons. I gracefully retract my ungracious comments. As you were.....however you can only be in one place at one time - if you are in sweltering Thailand at the moment you have my sympathy. My missus and I can only handle October to February.

[ilostmypassword]

58 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

I think you will find in the United Republic of Pattaya that members of the People's Popular Front for Brexit never ever turn on the air-con unless completely desperate and as for beer the tipple of choice would be Leo. Sip, sip.

Especially now that given the pound's decline thanks to Brexit, Leo is all that they can afford.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

If the Greeks cheated their way in, then that confirms that the EU is at least as corrupt...but we all know that now don't we?

You'll find corruption in many countries, but I would say that the majority of countries in the EU are less corrupt than the others. The US is in my view more corrupt ... they get legislation through by funding congress members pet projects. Or what about the Far East or the Middle East, or Africa? The EU is a paragon of virtue compared to these parts of the world.

 

As for the currency, I think it was less about corruption, and more about political expediency ... in other words bending the rules to bolster the popularity and acceptance of the Euro ... a huge political mistake .... but as I don't know if payments were made to an EU politician I can't say it is corruption. Stupid, yes. 

 

 

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

10 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Especially now that given the pound's decline thanks to Brexit, Leo is all that they can afford.

no Leo is still pairng -  it will be Lao Khao , soda and ice fron now on. If it's good enough for the peasants ....If things get much worse then the ice will have to go.

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

You'll find corruption in many countries, but I would say that the majority of countries in the EU are less corrupt than the others. The US is in my view more corrupt ... they get legislation through by funding congress members pet projects. Or what about the Far East or the Middle East, or Africa? The EU is a paragon of virtue compared to these parts of the world.

 

As for the currency, I think it was less about corruption, and more about political expediency ... in other words bending the rules to bolster the popularity and acceptance of the Euro ... a huge political mistake .... but as I don't know if payments were made to an EU politician I can't say it is corruption. Stupid, yes. 

 

 

 

 

Let's ask GS when they finish propping up that nice Venezuelan government

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I hope all these Brexiteers concerned about a 'free and bold future' for their native land will be returning home to help with the great experiment and great leap forward rather than just tapping away in their air-conditioned condos sipping their Changs. I won't be holding my breath anytime soon.

I had 'em marked down for a bit of fruit picking.

 

 

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

You miss jpinx's point completely. No surprise there, though.

I didn't miss his point. The EU does need reform. I think most people would agree with that, even some of the politicians. It would be incredible if a 28 member bloc could organise itself in a way that satisfied everybody on everything. I would argue that the benefits more than outweighed the costs. I just think it's better not to throw the baby out of the bath water. Better to lobby within for change. Brexit was a Pyrrhic victory ... a win at great cost. 

 

I just picked up on the use of the phrase "will of the people" ... a nonsense phrase in the context of Brexit. 

 

Is there a rule that states forum members must go through every point? 

[beautifulthailand99]

10 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

I had 'em marked down for a bit of fruit picking.

 

 

All those caravans will be lying empty in Lincolnshire if they need somewhere to live when they come back - and the NHS will be so short of patients they will come to you. A land of milk and honey , but sorry no easy honeys - not yet , we're not yet a developing country where everything is in the shop window for sale. Beers cheap though - in most cases cheaper than Thailand.

[beautifulthailand99]

On 24/05/2017 at 8:16 AM, mommysboy said:

I am increasingly coming to the view that the Brexiteers on this forum are not so much wrong as somewhat aloof to real life. Whatever it was that kept them rooted to the ground in their working lives, be it the forces or a respectable career, no longer provides that anchor.

Well said that man.

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Well said that man.

I am really happy you are speaking for the remainers.

[Johnyo]

 

 

The future PM of the U.K. How can anyone take this woman seriously? She is not going to the debate because she is thinking about Brexit!! You cons really buy this crap???

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

[AlexRich]

2 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

 

 

The future PM of the U.K. How can anyone take this woman seriously? She is not going to the debate because she is thinking about Brexit!! You cons really buy this crap???

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Their calculation is that May has more to lose in a head to head debate with the other political leaders ... she's not a great debater and lacks a poker face, so when she's been out argued it shows on her face ... easy meat for the likes of Sturgeon ... even Corbyn appears to have lifted his game. 

[beautifulthailand99]

14 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

 

 

The future PM of the U.K. How can anyone take this woman seriously? She is not going to the debate because she is thinking about Brexit!! You cons really buy this crap???

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

I'm voting for the Coalition of Chaos and a dilution of Brexit. It's our turn now to play at breaking the railway set.

Edited May 31, 2017 by beautifulthailand99

[jpinx]

54 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I didn't miss his point. The EU does need reform. I think most people would agree with that, even some of the politicians. It would be incredible if a 28 member bloc could organise itself in a way that satisfied everybody on everything. I would argue that the benefits more than outweighed the costs. I just think it's better not to throw the baby out of the bath water. Better to lobby within for change. Brexit was a Pyrrhic victory ... a win at great cost. 

 

I just picked up on the use of the phrase "will of the people" ... a nonsense phrase in the context of Brexit. 

 

Is there a rule that states forum members must go through every point? 

I'd agree that the expression is over-used, but it's an easy way of expressing democracy.  What's more worrying is that someone who takes part in this debate thinks that only 30% of the electorate cast a vote.

 

We've been through the discussion about "How many times did UK ask the EU for reforms, and how many times did any of them even listen?"  Reforming the EU has been proposed by UK many times, and always rejected.  That's how the UK ended up with a referendum. Most of the rejection is driven by those eurocrats who do not have to answer to the public.

 

 

[AlexRich]

19 minutes ago, jpinx said:

I'd agree that the expression is over-used, but it's an easy way of expressing democracy.  What's more worrying is that someone who takes part in this debate thinks that only 30% of the electorate cast a vote.

 

We've been through the discussion about "How many times did UK ask the EU for reforms, and how many times did any of them even listen?"  Reforming the EU has been proposed by UK many times, and always rejected.  That's how the UK ended up with a referendum. Most of the rejection is driven by those eurocrats who do not have to answer to the public.

 

 

 

I never mentioned the electorate ... I was speaking up for those that never had the legal right to vote yet will carry the burden on their backs for years ... essentially because voting old people became uncomfortable with immigration ... please don't try to suggest that this was all about sovereignty or Brussels beauracracy, or bendy bananas ... none of those concerns would have got that vote over the line ... it was essentially a vote on immigration. So less than 30% of the population make a decision and the rest of us don't matter anymore. That's why I loathe the term "will of the people". It's utter tosh.

 

The UK ended up with a referendum because Cameron was worried about losing votes to UKIP and he was being constantly pressured by right wing Tories to call a referendum. UKIP are essentially an anti-immigration party .. and that's the message they banged on about all through the campaign. A referendum called due to Tory in fighting and fears about losing votes to UKIP. 

[jpinx]

5 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

I loathe the expression "will of the people" ... it refers to about 30% of the population, and quite frankly is a nonsense description of a vote where 48% opposed the decision and those that voted for it were predominantly anti-immigration protesters. I'd liken the vote to the X Factor or Britain's Got Talent ... two years later no one can remember who the winner was or why anyone voted for them. 

Posted 9 minutes ago · Report post

38 minutes ago, jpinx said:

I'd agree that the expression is over-used, but it's an easy way of expressing democracy.  What's more worrying is that someone who takes part in this debate thinks that only 30% of the electorate cast a vote.

 

We've been through the discussion about "How many times did UK ask the EU for reforms, and how many times did any of them even listen?"  Reforming the EU has been proposed by UK many times, and always rejected.  That's how the UK ended up with a referendum. Most of the rejection is driven by those eurocrats who do not have to answer to the public.

 

 

 

I never mentioned the electorate ... I was speaking up for those that never had the legal right to vote yet will carry the burden on their backs for years ... essentially because voting old people became uncomfortable with immigration ... please don't try to suggest that this was all about sovereignty or Brussels beauracracy, or bendy bananas ... none of those concerns would have got that vote over the line ... it was essentially a vote on immigration. So less than 30% of the population make a decision and the rest of us don't matter anymore. That's why I loathe the term "will of the people". It's utter tosh.

 

The UK ended up with a referendum because Cameron was worried about losing votes to UKIP and he was being constantly pressured by right wing Tories to call a referendum. UKIP are essentially an anti-immigration party .. and that's the message they banged on about all through the campaign. A referendum called due to Tory in fighting and fears about losing votes to UKIP. 

 

====================

 

Choose a collective noun carefully - population, voters, electorate...... 

 

Whilst immigration is a big factor it is by no means the only one and to imply that Cameron's limp, last-minute efforts were the only time that UK had proposed EU reform is highly misleading. 

 

 

[SheungWan]

UKIP vote 5% or lower: 3/10

[AlexRich]

6 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Posted 9 minutes ago · Report post

 

I never mentioned the electorate ... I was speaking up for those that never had the legal right to vote yet will carry the burden on their backs for years ... essentially because voting old people became uncomfortable with immigration ... please don't try to suggest that this was all about sovereignty or Brussels beauracracy, or bendy bananas ... none of those concerns would have got that vote over the line ... it was essentially a vote on immigration. So less than 30% of the population make a decision and the rest of us don't matter anymore. That's why I loathe the term "will of the people". It's utter tosh.

 

The UK ended up with a referendum because Cameron was worried about losing votes to UKIP and he was being constantly pressured by right wing Tories to call a referendum. UKIP are essentially an anti-immigration party .. and that's the message they banged on about all through the campaign. A referendum called due to Tory in fighting and fears about losing votes to UKIP. 

 

====================

 

Choose a collective noun carefully - population, voters, electorate...... 

 

Whilst immigration is a big factor it is by no means the only one and to imply that Cameron's limp, last-minute efforts were the only time that UK had proposed EU reform is highly misleading. 

 

 

I clearly stated the 30% referred to the population ... not those that voted? I think that the 70% matter ... and those that will come after them as they will have to survive in a post Brexit UK ... if the UK survives.

 

Your last sentence made no sense if it relates to me ... ?

 

[uptheos]

1 hour ago, Johnyo said:

 

 

 

The future PM of the U.K. How can anyone take this woman seriously? She is not going to the debate because she is thinking about Brexit!! You cons really buy this crap???

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

She doesn't want to debate because all she wants to talk is Brexit.

Corbyn, like him or not is coming on strong with social care and welfare reforms and I don't think May wants any of these type of questions to answer. He has joined the debate tonight and I think a lot of people see that as courageous. I think May will win but its entirely possible that she cant't get a majority to form a government, there's no one who would form a coalition with her.  Its entirely possible to see the UK run by Labour/SDP/SNP wouldn't that be a shock for the pound..........or would it?

[beautifulthailand99]

2 minutes ago, uptheos said:

She doesn't want to debate because all she wants to talk is Brexit.

Corbyn, like him or not is coming on strong with social care and welfare reforms and I don't think May wants any of these type of questions to answer. He has joined the debate tonight and I think a lot of people see that as courageous. I think May will win but its entirely possible that she cant't get a majority to form a government, there's no one who would form a coalition with her.  Its entirely possible to see the UK run by Labour/SDP/SNP wouldn't that be a shock for the pound..........or would it?

I heard a lifelong Tory voter London cabbie on LBC today saying he is voting Labour as the Tories no longer care about the working class (he obviously has Uber uppermost in his mind) and sees the powelessness folk see for them and their children in the face of 'unstoppable globalism' , plus a lot of folk are starting to see that  a hard Brexit is going to cost a bomb. May has bottled it at a crucial point in the campaign and even if she wins a lot of tories and the country will see her words as hollow soundbites rather than true metal as say Maggie would have done . Plus Maggie would have never taken us out of the EU - whatever else she was she was not mad. Corbyn is loving the ride and coming over as a nice guy, uncorruptible and with his heart in the right place. And that's where my vote is going - pound rinse or not.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I heard a lifelong Tory voter London cabbie on LBC today saying he is voting Labour as the Tories no longer care about the working class (he obviously has Uber uppermost in his mind) and sees the powelessness folk see for them and their children in the face of 'unstoppable globalism' , plus a lot of folk are starting to see that  a hard Brexit is going to cost a bomb. May has bottled it at a crucial point in the campaign and even if she wins a lot of tories and the country will see her words as hollow soundbites rather than true metal as say Maggie would have done . Plus Maggie would have never taken us out of the EU - whatever else she was she was not mad. Corbyn is loving the ride and coming over as a nice guy, uncorruptible and with his heart in the right place. And that's where my vote is going - pound rinse or not.

In becoming so obsessed with the phoney Brexit war, the Tory party is losing any grip it had on the economy.

 

That said, and even though Corbyn is increasingly impressive, I think the Cons will win at a canter, because for some inexplicable reason hordes of English working class people have this insane belief in corporate Britain delivering them the life of their dreams; youd have thought they'd know better by now.

Edited May 31, 2017 by mommysboy

[beautifulthailand99]

24 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

In becoming so obsessed with the phoney Brexit war, the Tory party is losing any grip it had on the economy.

 

That said, and even though Corbyn is increasingly impressive, I think the Cons will win at a canter, because for some inexplicable reason hordes of English working class people have this insane belief in corporate Britain delivering them the life of their dreams; youd have thought they'd know better by now.

like many similar Thais they have been barinwashed to doff their caps at their 'betters and elders" I'm afarid.

[jpinx]

9 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

I loathe the expression "will of the people" ... it refers to about 30% of the population, and quite frankly is a nonsense description of a vote where 48% opposed the decision and those that voted for it were predominantly anti-immigration protesters. I'd liken the vote to the X Factor or Britain's Got Talent ... two years later no one can remember who the winner was or why anyone voted for them. 

Justifing the figures you quoted is impossible.  This angle has been debated to death last year.  It was a slim margin to win, but to try support an argument by using  a percentage of the population versus a percentage of the votes cast is a total nonsense. 

 

Leave - Vote share - 51.9% - 17,410,742 Votes

Remain - Vote share - 48.1% - 16,141,241 Votes

the electorate was 46,501,241,

The UK population 65.1 million .

 

 

 

[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, uptheos said:

She doesn't want to debate because all she wants to talk is Brexit.

Corbyn, like him or not is coming on strong with social care and welfare reforms and I don't think May wants any of these type of questions to answer. He has joined the debate tonight and I think a lot of people see that as courageous. I think May will win but its entirely possible that she cant't get a majority to form a government, there's no one who would form a coalition with her.  Its entirely possible to see the UK run by Labour/SDP/SNP wouldn't that be a shock for the pound..........or would it?

The SDP ceased to exist some time ago but Lord Owen would no doubt appreciate your gesture. As for a possible coalition, this would be a throwback to the horse-trading 2 elections ago when Brown tried to put something together for Labour but failed and instead we got the Tory/LDP coalition. Now such a coalition repeat is not on the table precisely because of Brexit and if you think that Labour can this time put together its own coalition good luck with that given that the LDP and the SNP would make very specific demands re a re-run of both the referendum and Scottish independence. Everything in the air and the pound down the drain. If for one moment you really think Corbyn is going to win run, run to TT Exchange and get rid of your pounds.

[nauseus]

12 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Especially now that given the pound's decline thanks to Brexit, Leo is all that they can afford.

This condescending post and those similar ones directly preceding this one show the true bitter character of their writers. 

[nauseus]

12 hours ago, AlexRich said:

I didn't miss his point. The EU does need reform. I think most people would agree with that, even some of the politicians. It would be incredible if a 28 member bloc could organise itself in a way that satisfied everybody on everything. I would argue that the benefits more than outweighed the costs. I just think it's better not to throw the baby out of the bath water. Better to lobby within for change. Brexit was a Pyrrhic victory ... a win at great cost. 

 

I just picked up on the use of the phrase "will of the people" ... a nonsense phrase in the context of Brexit. 

 

Is there a rule that states forum members must go through every point? 

You missed it again!

[AlexRich]

7 hours ago, jpinx said:

Justifing the figures you quoted is impossible.  This angle has been debated to death last year.  It was a slim margin to win, but to try support an argument by using  a percentage of the population versus a percentage of the votes cast is a total nonsense. 

 

Leave - Vote share - 51.9% - 17,410,742 Votes

Remain - Vote share - 48.1% - 16,141,241 Votes

the electorate was 46,501,241,

The UK population 65.1 million .

 

 

 

 

A "slim margin win" is hardly the "will of the people" now is it? But we're all expected to just put up and shut up about whatever May comes up with ... and she's looking more and more like a train wreck each passing day. 

 

The point made was simple. It was not an overwhelming majority ... and it needed to be as there are generations to come (ineligible to vote) who will bear the brunt of hard Brexit ... long after a large chunk of the 17m are dead and gone.