May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Flustered]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

How many kids do you have? 

 

I really do consider the future we are leaving for the young.

 

I can just imagine you as Mr Scrooge, stacking up your pennies. Why enjoy life when you can save for a pension? What a kill joy!

 

Nobody is offering free beer to students; only tuition fees which should be FoC in civilised countries.( I got free beer and everything else but I was in the 4%)

 

Now lighten up. It's Saturday night! Be irresponsible and drink TWO beers!

One daughter and one grandchild. She is a successful chartered accountant living in London with a Sheldon Cooper style boy of 14..

 

We all live a very comfortable life and want for nothing. None of us believe in the benefit system as is now and all work damned hard to get where we are. hard work, a thing many of the young do not understand today.

 

As for Scrooge. By being frugal and since early retirement (55) we have been able to enjoy the summer months in the UK and the winter months in Spain, Singapore and Thailand. We want for nothing and have carefully invested our money so that we are not affected by the issues of leaving the EU.

 

Anyone in this country could live a very happy life if they worked hard and were careful on how they spend their money. But it's easier to expect free handouts and a free university education for a degree they will never use and now the ridiculous statement by Corbyn of £10 per hour for teenagers.

 

I could not care one iota if the remain campaign completely torpedoes TM in the Brexit talks and cause us to crash out of the EU rather than pulling together and fighting for the best deal possible.

 

I am sick to death of Socialists and their policies and soon will be leaving it all behind. I hope that the UK enjoys becoming a third world Marxist state because that is what you are all heading blindly towards.

 

Now I see that Ilostmymarbles is having a hissy fit and ranting away. Must be waiting for his benefits payment as it's near the end of the month

[Flustered]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

It is an absolute relief to hear that you are personally alright AND grow your own vegetables.

Anytime you want a handout, just ask. I know that it is not possible to live a healthy life in Hong Kong and all of that Cantonese food must be taking it's effect on your health.

[Kwasaki]

33 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

John Maynard Keynes was one of the greatest investors of all time.

Yeah he built Milton Keynes like a US military base road lay out didn't he.  .

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

Someone is living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

By living a frugal life so that my wife and I are comfortable in our old age, by raising a daughter and teaching her values so that today she is a successful chartered accountant living in London, by paying my taxes and by serving my country in the armed forces, I have messed it up for the young?  What medication are you on?

 

Under your way of life, we would see a Marxist/Socialist government, allow anyone in who wants to come to the UK, all be on benefits, borrowing more and more and never be able to pay it back.

 

As I said, I do not care at all. I have made sure that whatever happens and whatever government we have, whether we are in the EU or outside it, my family has had the common sense to save money rather than throw it away on smoking, drinking, expensive holidays and luxury materialistic items so that when the next Marxist/Socialist government come into power, we have enough savings and income from various sources to live a very comfortable life here or overseas.

 

Anyone could do this, anyone except a dyed in the wool Socialist.

Wrong! Sadly! Look what happened to my mum and dad when they got ill.  Again sadly times have changed.

 

More generally, what was the income multiple when you bought your house?  What is it now?  I think it is around 8-1 in some places.  30 years ago I remember 4-1 or thereabouts, and wages are stagnating. There was a Durham MP talking on radio 4 today: she said she couldd not aspire to owning property and of course there was no social housing available.  You'll here the same stories from doctors, etc.  Of course its an even worse for the young, unskilled.

Edited June 24, 2017 by mommysboy
additional info

[Flustered]

6 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Wrong! Sadly! Look what happened to my mum and dad when they got ill.  Again sadly times have changed.

If you could elucidate a bit it would help.

[mommysboy]

5 minutes ago, Flustered said:

If you could elucidate a bit it would help.

Similar situation to your own.  But very late in life dad started to get very ill and was eventually diagnosed with lung cancer amongst other things.  He did get continuing health care, but on his death bed, and lierally a corpse gasping for air we got a letter saying it was being withdrawn, ie, he had to pay for nursing home out of his estate.  This story is quite common. Obviously, I hope it does not happen to you in your dotage. 

 

Because mum has Alzheimers, which is deemed a social services issue and not a medical one, she had to sell the family home to fund care.  That home was part of my grandfather's estate originally, and before that my great grandfather I think.  When they got chronically ill they went in to hospice, funded of course.

 

So what I am saying is things are going backwards.  I think it is likely that you can't see this.  Because of your admirable efforts you have risen significantly up the pile, to thus far be largely untouched by the slow down and austerity that followed.  But not everyone is so talented.

 

It isn't a pure argument, my brother who is just a couple of years older has done quite well, and recently I've started getting on the score sheet too.  And I agree, a big part behind wealth is not what you earn but what you hang on to.

[SheungWan]

Oh! Its Life Story Time Again For  A Change! . I got paid tuppence a week and saved thruppence a month. And that's why I am now living in a penthouse in Monaco. Oh yes. Those EU scroungers and Marxist ponies on Blackpool pier.....

 

Edited June 24, 2017 by SheungWan

[Flustered]

Why didn't you have the properties transferred to yourself/siblings when the illnesses started?

 

I do sympathise as we all lose our parents in the end and it is never easy. In our case, my father left everything to my mother and she immediately put it in our names along with her savings so that when she eventually had to go into care (like yours, Alzheimers) . there was no estate to sell.

 

Hindsight I know. It doesn't help.

 

This is actually one area I do not agree with any party on. No person should have to sell their property to pay for care. This actually encourages a life of spend, spend spend and the reliance on the State. Why save when the State will pay. Also there should be no inheritance tax of any sort.

 

In TMs case she was actually making life better by increasing the amount that could be held back and in not having to sell the house or property until after death. The home care bit was plain stupid but £100,000 is a lot better that £23,250. I do not even know who set the level at £23,250.

 

On the finance side. People completely ignore the fact that they need to save to have a good life when they retire. Sure you can rely on a State pension and benefits but for how long? And it does not go far.

 

Banks are not worth saving in with interest rates so low and a Bank of England Governor who runs down the UK economy at every opportunity he gets.

 

Stocks and shares are another matter. With a little research you can find the ones that are relatively safe and pay good dividends. It needs a steady nerve but 20% gain each year with dividend  re investment is achievable just using the LSE and common sense. Building companies are the classic. All parties want to build more and Brexit or not, houses are in huge demand. good quality companies like Persimmon have gone up by over 60% in one year and they pay good dividends. Berkeley Group are another. Then there are companies like BAE. Always a demand for high tech military sales.

 

And the great thing is you do not need millions to do this with. Just save up a few hundred and take the plunge.

 

Or you can listen to people like the Strawman who is a financial wizz kid but never tells you how.

 

Now it's time for some forbidden fruit...a small helping of my wife's curry.

[Flustered]

6 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Oh! Its Life Story Time Again For  A Change! . I got paid tuppence a week and saved thruppence a month. And that's why I am now living in a penthouse in Monaco. Oh yes.

 

I thought you lived in Hong Kong and Thailand?

[SheungWan]

6 minutes ago, Flustered said:

I thought you lived in Hong Kong and Thailand?

and London.

[mommysboy]

23 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Why didn't you have the properties transferred to yourself/siblings when the illnesses started?

 

I do sympathise as we all lose our parents in the end and it is never easy. In our case, my father left everything to my mother and she immediately put it in our names along with her savings so that when she eventually had to go into care (like yours, Alzheimers) . there was no estate to sell.

 

Hindsight I know. It doesn't help.

 

This is actually one area I do not agree with any party on. No person should have to sell their property to pay for care. This actually encourages a life of spend, spend spend and the reliance on the State. Why save when the State will pay. Also there should be no inheritance tax of any sort.

 

In TMs case she was actually making life better by increasing the amount that could be held back and in not having to sell the house or property until after death. The home care bit was plain stupid but £100,000 is a lot better that £23,250. I do not even know who set the level at £23,250.

 

On the finance side. People completely ignore the fact that they need to save to have a good life when they retire. Sure you can rely on a State pension and benefits but for how long? And it does not go far.

 

Banks are not worth saving in with interest rates so low and a Bank of England Governor who runs down the UK economy at every opportunity he gets.

 

Stocks and shares are another matter. With a little research you can find the ones that are relatively safe and pay good dividends. It needs a steady nerve but 20% gain each year with dividend  re investment is achievable just using the LSE and common sense. Building companies are the classic. All parties want to build more and Brexit or not, houses are in huge demand. good quality companies like Persimmon have gone up by over 60% in one year and they pay good dividends. Berkeley Group are another. Then there are companies like BAE. Always a demand for high tech military sales.

 

And the great thing is you do not need millions to do this with. Just save up a few hundred and take the plunge.

 

Or you can listen to people like the Strawman who is a financial wizz kid but never tells you how.

 

Now it's time for some forbidden fruit...a small helping of my wife's curry.

We have managed to protect a good portion of the estate.  But by simply transferring to any member of the family, selling at cornpepper price, etc, that is now classified as deliberate deprivation of assets.  To be really sure it is best to set up a trust fund in favour of kids during late middle age and certainly before any illness kicks in. I expect I am preaching to the converted, but I would do this straight away if you havent already done so.  I would also advise getting in to a regular habit of gifting, which is  a clever way of gradually transferring assets.

  It'll save 50% or more of any estate in the event of terrible chronic illness, which I hope of course will not happen.  For all of us I wish what AR describes as the Mexican death, ie, dozing under a sombrero and not waking up again....not for a good number of years yet.

 

The upshot is I am ok. The trust fund appears to work.  It hasn't been wipe out by any means  Interestingly, I could only get my act together when I left England; it just seemed so much easier to make a few bob.

 

Edited June 24, 2017 by mommysboy

[Khun Han]

4 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Truly bizarre. On the one hand Brexiters have repeatedly criticized France and Germany for surreptitiously trying to create an EU army. Now the EU is being criticized for not having one.  Make up your minds, already.

 

You're confused. There's no question Germany, especially, has not been paying it's way militarily. But this is a seperate issue to the creation of a European army, which woud be an amalgamation of member states' existing armies. Guess which country would be providing the strongest contingent, to be used away from it's national control?

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Oh! Its Life Story Time Again For  A Change! . I got paid tuppence a week and saved thruppence a month. And that's why I am now living in a penthouse in Monaco. Oh yes. Those EU scroungers and Marxist ponies on Blackpool pier.....

 

 

Well, it is a discussion forum populated by real people, not weirdos pushing out-and-out propaganda, isn't it?

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

and London.

 

You must be lonely. Do people actually have the time to talk to each other in London? And the beer.....my god, do standards get any lower?

[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

You must be lonely. Do people actually have the time to talk to each other in London? And the beer.....my god, do standards get any lower?

Will soon be there. Looking forward this summer to visiting the Hokusai exhibition at the British Museum http://www.britishmuseum.org/whats_on/exhibitions/hokusai.aspx and eating in Chinatown http://chinatown.co.uk/en/ and Borough Market http://boroughmarket.org.uk/#newsletter-popup

 

[Grouse]

9 hours ago, Flustered said:

One daughter and one grandchild. She is a successful chartered accountant living in London with a Sheldon Cooper style boy of 14..

 

We all live a very comfortable life and want for nothing. None of us believe in the benefit system as is now and all work damned hard to get where we are. hard work, a thing many of the young do not understand today.

 

As for Scrooge. By being frugal and since early retirement (55) we have been able to enjoy the summer months in the UK and the winter months in Spain, Singapore and Thailand. We want for nothing and have carefully invested our money so that we are not affected by the issues of leaving the EU.

 

Anyone in this country could live a very happy life if they worked hard and were careful on how they spend their money. But it's easier to expect free handouts and a free university education for a degree they will never use and now the ridiculous statement by Corbyn of £10 per hour for teenagers.

 

I could not care one iota if the remain campaign completely torpedoes TM in the Brexit talks and cause us to crash out of the EU rather than pulling together and fighting for the best deal possible.

 

I am sick to death of Socialists and their policies and soon will be leaving it all behind. I hope that the UK enjoys becoming a third world Marxist state because that is what you are all heading blindly towards.

 

Now I see that Ilostmymarbles is having a hissy fit and ranting away. Must be waiting for his benefits payment as it's near the end of the month

Well I must say that its a comfort to know you, at least, won't need the winter fuel payments!

Marley's Ghost-John Leech, 1843 - Ebenezer Scrooge - Wikipedia.webarchive

Edited June 25, 2017 by Grouse

[sandyf]

20 hours ago, mommysboy said:

I shall research.

 

This was my understanding and is Bloomberg's words: "The ECB claimed power over clearing back in 2011, including the right to require firms that clear euro-denominated derivatives and other contracts to set up shop in the currency zone. The U.K. challenged this claim in court and won. In a 2015 judgment, the EU’s General Court ruled that the ECB lacked this authority."

 

To my thinking that meant the EU could not prevent countries outside the currency zone.  And the situation has not changed- UK has never been in the currency zone.

 

Perhaps that is wrong.  What is your info ?

You can never totally rely on a correct interpretation but this one does indicate relocation.

 

BRUSSELS—Europe’s second-highest court annulled a policy by the European Central Bank that would have required British companies managing financial trades in euros to relocate to the eurozone.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-k-wins-court-case-with-ecb-on-euro-clearing-1425462219

[sandyf]

20 hours ago, jpinx said:

but the question I pose is, will trade between UK and - for example - Spain - revert to the prior WTO agreement that existed between them before the EU's own agreements were rubber-stamped by the WTO? 

Just cannot happen. Post brexit the UK cannot trade with Spain as such, it will be with the EU, no EU member state has a WTO tariff profile.

The old WTO profile cannot be reinstated as it would not contain any terms in relation to the EU. As I said previously the most likely outcome is they adopt the EU profile and just amend the text as necessary. Any actual change in the tariff rates is likely to extend the timeframe.

Of course it all becomes academic with respect to the EU if there is an EU trade agreement which is why she has been so desperate to get things moving on trade, but she shot herself in the foot time wise.

 

There has been very little said about trade with non EU countries come March 2019. All current trade with countries like US, Canada, India etc is done under the WTO EU tariff profile which may cease to apply when the UK is no longer an EU member state. There are differing views on this, one that existing arrangements will still apply and the other that agreements will have to be renegotiated.

A good summary can be found here.

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-leaving-eu-trade/?gclid=CjwKEAjwm7jKBRDE2_H_t8DVxzISJACwS9WbKZC2OtU7rrGWJpey0s4huFsCWweGzzRG5I-L8w-WCBoC2wrw_wcB

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

We've had pretty much this conversation before, and my answer is the same: anyone who believes that the world will stop trading with the UK on tecnicalities is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Nobody has ever said that trading would stop but only the mentally challenged would advocate that trading outside the WTO would be beneficial to the UK.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, Flustered said:

Laugh? I thought I would have died.

 

The "Young" have finally woken up....Classic.

 

Corbyn offers free uni's £10 per hour, lower taxes and all the beer you can drink in the students bar and they have "woken up".

 

The "YOUNG" don't have a clue on how all of this will be paid for. They will be the ones who will be burdened by the debt we will incur if he ever gets in power.

 

Why should I care? I will not be around to pay this debt off and the reason I don't have to worry is that I spent a life of careful spending, saving as much as possible for my pensions and not getting into debt I could not afford to pay back. And yes, "I'm all right Jack" and screw the rest of you socialist economists.

 

But why be frugal when you can spend and borrow today and not care how it is paid back.

 

Watch out youngsters, the sting is in the tail. You will have to pay this debt back later with massive interest and inflation.

That's a good one.

 

EU referendum Bill - cost unknown

Failed court case - cost unknown

Failed appeal - cost unknown

Additional brexit ministerial posts - cost unkown

Additional dept to exit EU - cost unknown

Additional brexit advisors - cost unknown

Outstanding EU debt - estimated 50 billion Euros

EU negotiations - cost unknown

Negotiating new trade agreements - cost unknown

Establishing new entities to replace those currently operated by the EU - cost unknown

Rewriting thousands upon thousands of pieces of legislation and documents - cost phenomenal. 

 

Corbyn's proposals will seem like petty cash compared to the overall cost of brexit.

[dick dasterdly]

22 hours ago, mommysboy said:

It's just a matter of frustration.  If it can't be done without considerable cost and disruption then it should be abandoned (futility rule)

Clearly not true.

 

I can think of many examples in life when the best way forward was accepting the short term 'cost and disruption', as doing nothing would be far worse in the long term.

[SheungWan]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Clearly not true.

 

I can think of many examples in life when the best way forward was accepting the short term 'cost and disruption', as doing nothing would be far worse in the long term.

I'm not sure that strategy always works on Beach Road.

[pitrevie]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

That's a good one.

 

EU referendum Bill - cost unknown

Failed court case - cost unknown

Failed appeal - cost unknown

Additional brexit ministerial posts - cost unkown

Additional dept to exit EU - cost unknown

Additional brexit advisors - cost unknown

Outstanding EU debt - estimated 50 billion Euros

EU negotiations - cost unknown

Negotiating new trade agreements - cost unknown

Establishing new entities to replace those currently operated by the EU - cost unknown

Rewriting thousands upon thousands of pieces of legislation and documents - cost phenomenal. 

 

Corbyn's proposals will seem like petty cash compared to the overall cost of brexit.

Hammond in his Autumn statement said, "over the six years from last April, Britain will borrow an extra £122bn – of which almost £58.7bn is a black hole opened up directly because of the uncertainty created by EU withdrawal." So in addition to the more than 50% increase in debt that has been incurred since the Tories returned to power lets add more. That should stop the supertanker blow a hole in it.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

That's a good one.

 

EU referendum Bill - cost unknown

Failed court case - cost unknown

Failed appeal - cost unknown

Additional brexit ministerial posts - cost unkown

Additional dept to exit EU - cost unknown

Additional brexit advisors - cost unknown

Outstanding EU debt - estimated 50 billion Euros

EU negotiations - cost unknown

Negotiating new trade agreements - cost unknown

Establishing new entities to replace those currently operated by the EU - cost unknown

Rewriting thousands upon thousands of pieces of legislation and documents - cost phenomenal. 

 

Corbyn's proposals will seem like petty cash compared to the overall cost of brexit.

That would be the petty cash of 250 billion pounds to be set aside by Labour's 'National Transformation Fund' for nationalisations and other projects.

 

 

[Flustered]

7 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Will soon be there. Looking forward this summer to visiting the Hokusai exhibition at the British Museum http://www.britishmuseum.org/whats_on/exhibitions/hokusai.aspx and eating in Chinatown http://chinatown.co.uk/en/ and Borough Market http://boroughmarket.org.uk/#newsletter-popup

 

The pseudo intellectual Strawman.

 

Do you ever contribute a meaningful point to the thread subject?

[Flustered]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

 

Corbyn's proposals will seem like petty cash compared to the overall cost of brexit.

Who will pay for Corbyn's Billions that he will have to borrow, the great unwashed masses at Glastonbury?

 

Socialists like Corbyn live in a dream world. He is the admitted enemy of big business, the very engine that drives the economy.

 

Still, as I said, you are welcome to the Marxist/Socialist utopia that will exist if Comrad Corbyn gets into power. Britain will become the perfect breeding ground for a rapid rise in ideology and the rise of Islam as a major power within.

 

Be careful what you wish for, it may come true.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Flustered

[onthesoi]

7 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Who will pay for Corbyn's Billions that he will have to borrow, the great unwashed masses at Glastonbury?

 

Socialists like Corbyn live in a dream world. He is the admitted enemy of big business, the very engine that drives the economy.

 

Still, as I said, you are welcome to the Marxist/Socialist utopia that will exist if Comrad Corbyn gets into power. Britain will become the perfect breeding ground for a rapid rise in ideology and the rise of Islam as a major power within.

 

Be careful what you wish for, it may come true.

 

The state made your life what it is, bought and paid for by the tax payer.

 

Now it's someone else's turn you're whinging about it?

[Flustered]

3 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

The state made your life what it is, bought and paid for by the tax payer.

 

Now it's someone else's turn you're whinging about it?

What a ridiculous post. Completely nonsensical. I read great bitterness in your life, probably due to a dumbed down education and a me me lifestyle..

 

Life is what you make it, not the State.

 

As I said, you are welcome to the Brave New World under Comrad Corbyn. 

[mommysboy]

5 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Clearly not true.

 

I can think of many examples in life when the best way forward was accepting the short term 'cost and disruption', as doing nothing would be far worse in the long term.

 

Partly true. But there are hundreds more where you quite wisely shelved the whole idea.

 

I suppose there are many metaphors but how about this one: getting on a leaky ship, in a storm, when you dont really know where you're going, or what the likely reward will be (in fact it may be worse than what you've got).

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

Who will pay for Corbyn's Billions that he will have to borrow, the great unwashed masses at Glastonbury?

 

 

Socialists like Corbyn live in a dream world. He is the admitted enemy of big business, the very engine that drives the economy.

 

Still, as I said, you are welcome to the Marxist/Socialist utopia that will exist if Comrad Corbyn gets into power. Britain will become the perfect breeding ground for a rapid rise in ideology and the rise of Islam as a major power within.

 

Be careful what you wish for, it may come true.

Corbyn's proposals are no more than that, proposals. If he became PM tomorrow he has less chance of getting anything passed than Maggie May.

The cost of brexit is mounting on a daily basis and who do you think is going to pay for that, it wouldn't happen to be the same people that may have to foot Corbyn's proposals would it?