7 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Well it was a comment made in 2010 so there is an opportunity for him to row back from that.

For public relations purposes yes. But what does it say about Theresa May's intentions? Or maybe her grasp of the situation?

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

I think any comment on this is superfluous.

Brexit: Minister appointed to negotiate Britain's withdrawal wants European Union 'wholly torn down'

The newest member of Theresa May’s Brexit negotiating team has been filmed calling for the destruction of the European Union, The Independent can reveal.

In a speech to a right-wing think tank, minister Steve Baker said the EU should be “wholly torn down”, before branding it an “obstacle” to world peace and “incompatible” with a free society.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-european-union-eu-steve-baker-theresa-may-wholly-torn-down-libertarian-alliance-a7820721.html

Quite appalling. 

 

Embarrassing, frankly....

7 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

For public relations purposes yes. But what does it say about Theresa May's intentions? Or maybe her grasp of the situation?

He may or may not hold those opinions now. If he disavows them then no problem. If he doesn't then the PM can review his position.

28 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

He may or may not hold those opinions now. If he disavows them then no problem. If he doesn't then the PM can review his position.

Maybe he is one of the so called, Hard Brexiteers, if so so I've no problem with that, maybe to counter, any so called Soft Briteers in her negotiating team. They main criteria, surely MUST be that he will put the interest of the British people first.

1 minute ago, nontabury said:

 They main criteria, surely MUST be that he will put the interest of the British people first.

If that were the case with him, he'd be pushing for the softest of Brexits.

28 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

He may or may not hold those opinions now. If he disavows them then no problem. If he doesn't then the PM can review his position.

Maybe he is one of the so called, Hard Brexiteers, if so I've no problem with that, maybe to counter, any so called Soft Briteers in her negotiating team. They main criteria, surely MUST be that he will put the interest of the British people first.

29 minutes ago, nontabury said:

They main criteria, surely MUST be that he will put the interest of the British people first.

And apparently, you believe that either he, or you, knows exactly what that is.

3 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

I think any comment on this is superfluous.

Brexit: Minister appointed to negotiate Britain's withdrawal wants European Union 'wholly torn down'

The newest member of Theresa May’s Brexit negotiating team has been filmed calling for the destruction of the European Union, The Independent can reveal.

In a speech to a right-wing think tank, minister Steve Baker said the EU should be “wholly torn down”, before branding it an “obstacle” to world peace and “incompatible” with a free society.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-european-union-eu-steve-baker-theresa-may-wholly-torn-down-libertarian-alliance-a7820721.html

 

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Well it was a comment made in 2010 so there is an opportunity for him to row back from that.

And that's what is so annoying about media reports - they're all so biased as proven by this latest posted article - based around comments made in 2010!

 

Trying to determine anything remotely resembling 'the truth' re. the past/present is made even more difficult/impossible with such biased reporting from both sides!

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

And that's what is so annoying about media reports - they're all so biased as proven by this latest posted article - based around comments made in 2010!

 

Trying to determine anything remotely resembling 'the truth' re. the past/present is made even more difficult/impossible with such biased reporting from both sides!

So biased.

What May REALLY thinks? Is PM's latest hire to EU exit team PROOF she plans HARD Brexit...

Steve Baker was seen as a key Brexiteer on the backbenchers and was chair of the European Research Group. 

In a signal from the Prime Minister that she does not intend to back down on a hard Brexit, she appointed Mr Baker as parliamentary under-secretary of state at the Department for Exiting the EU. 

Since last year's vote to leave the EU, Mr Baker has played an influential role in organising a group of eurosceptics within the Conservative Party opposed to any attempt to water down the terms of Britain's departure from the bloc. 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/816648/brexit-steve-baker-theresa-may-leaving-eu-cabinet-reshuffle-latest

 

Massive Tory Brexiteer Steve Baker becomes minister in the Brexit Department

Theresa May has made one of Westminster's most ardent Brexiteers a minister in the BrexitDepartment.

Steve Baker - a serial rebel under David Cameron who once accused the ex-PM of "polishing poo" - has been given the plum job just days before talks with Brussels start.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/massive-tory-brexiteer-steve-baker-10616874

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

And that's what is so annoying about media reports - they're all so biased as proven by this latest posted article - based around comments made in 2010!

 

Trying to determine anything remotely resembling 'the truth' re. the past/present is made even more difficult/impossible with such biased reporting from both sides!

To be fair, the one thing we do know from the endless stream of embarrassingly biased reporting is that the media (like the government) have no doubt that their audience are idiots and believe pretty much anything they spout .

8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

To be fair, the one thing we do know from the endless stream of embarrassingly biased reporting is that the media (like the government) have no doubt that their audience are idiots and believe pretty much anything they spout .

You mean like that vicious anti-Brexit organization known as the Mirror?

Massive Tory Brexiteer Steve Baker becomes minister in the Brexit Department

Theresa May has made one of Westminster's most ardent Brexiteers a minister in the Brexit Department.

Steve Baker - a serial rebel under David Cameron who once accused the ex-PM of "polishing poo" - has been given the plum job just days before talks with Brussels start.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/massive-tory-brexiteer-steve-baker-10616874

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Well it was a comment made in 2010 so there is an opportunity for him to row back from that.

 

8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

To be fair, the one thing we do know from the endless stream of embarrassingly biased reporting is that the media (like the government) have no doubt that their audience are idiots and believe pretty much anything they spout .

Well no need to fly off the handle re this item. Theresa May is supposedly entering into negotiations in good faith. Steve Baker made a series of comments in 2010 which showed no good faith at all. Quite appropriate for the press to raise the issue as to 'is he is or is he ain't'. A simple clarification statement from him sorts out the matter. Save the public attack of the vapors for another day.

2 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

Well no need to fly off the handle re this item. Theresa May is supposedly entering into negotiations in good faith. Steve Baker made a series of comments in 2010 which showed no good faith at all. Quite appropriate for the press to raise the issue as to 'is he is or is he ain't'. A simple clarification statement from him sorts out the matter. Save the public attack of the vapors for another day.

Good faith? more like Bad blood...

4 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

Well no need to fly off the handle re this item. Theresa May is supposedly entering into negotiations in good faith. Steve Baker made a series of comments in 2010 which showed no good faith at all. Quite appropriate for the press to raise the issue as to 'is he is or is he ain't'. A simple clarification statement from him sorts out the matter. Save the public attack of the vapors for another day.

I don't think you need to go all the way back to 2010 to find evidence of Steve Baker's lack of good faith.

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Never mind that, the figures are too close for a momentum for a rerun. Over 60/40 might do it, but even then the question is hardly on the table since Labour is neither arguing for a re-run or even to stay in the Single Market, so somewhat uphill from here.

 

No question of a re-run anyway.  A second referendum just isn't on for the sake of democracy.  But a referendum on the 'deal' -an oxymoron if there ever is on- could give an option for a cancellation.  Indeed from the same poll conducted by Survation that would  be the preferred option. 

 

"However, a majority said the best outcome would be to stop exit talks altogether and work to stay in the EU, while around a third backed paying a fee for access to the tariff-free customs union.

Less than a quarter support the Government's current strategy of leaving the customs union in order to strike free trade deals with other countries, as Labour signalled its strongest backing for staying in the bloc yet."

 

As more trade bodies come forward warning bells ringing, then I see the appetite for leaving receding still further. This thing will be shelved or ditched. 

 

 

54 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

So biased.

What May REALLY thinks? Is PM's latest hire to EU exit team PROOF she plans HARD Brexit...

Steve Baker was seen as a key Brexiteer on the backbenchers and was chair of the European Research Group. 

In a signal from the Prime Minister that she does not intend to back down on a hard Brexit, she appointed Mr Baker as parliamentary under-secretary of state at the Department for Exiting the EU. 

Since last year's vote to leave the EU, Mr Baker has played an influential role in organising a group of eurosceptics within the Conservative Party opposed to any attempt to water down the terms of Britain's departure from the bloc. 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/816648/brexit-steve-baker-theresa-may-leaving-eu-cabinet-reshuffle-latest

 

Massive Tory Brexiteer Steve Baker becomes minister in the Brexit Department

Theresa May has made one of Westminster's most ardent Brexiteers a minister in the BrexitDepartment.

Steve Baker - a serial rebel under David Cameron who once accused the ex-PM of "polishing poo" - has been given the plum job just days before talks with Brussels start.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/massive-tory-brexiteer-steve-baker-10616874

And yet the Independent based their recent article around comments he made in 2010.....

 

I mean, really??!!

 

But of course a few of those with a 'hard'  'remain' agenda will lap-up any spiel that supports their cause.....

Welcome to...

 

                   Page 500 

 

Nearly 7500 posts 

In 256 days...

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

And yet the Independent based their recent article around comments he made in 2010.....

 

I mean, really??!!

 

But of course a few of those with a 'hard'  agenda will lap-up any spiel that supports their cause.....

I thought the CON party's stated aim was to maintain friendly relations with the EU and negotiate a splendiferous deal with our friends

 

So why wheel out this goon who is so anti EU he wants to demolish it!

 

Is ANYONE in charge?

2 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Welcome to...

 

                   Page 500 

 

Nearly 7500 posts 

In 256 days...

Indeed! I think we've all done jolly well!

 

Double all round! (Famous Grouse, naturally!)

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

I thought the CON party's stated aim was to maintain friendly relations with the EU and negotiate a splendiferous deal with our friends

 

So why wheel out this goon who is so anti EU he wants to demolish it!

 

Is ANYONE in charge?

You're REALLY going back to comments made in 2010 to support your cause??

 

Clearly the Independent () considers this acceptable and its appreciated  by a few forum members....

More importantly - but maybe a case of "too little - too late"  - Macron is going for EU "reform-from-within" based on his solid majority in France.  It'll be interesting to see how Merkel and May react to the various aspects of this , as they emerge. .   

 

 

 

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

You're REALLY going back to comments made in 2010 to support your cause??

How far would you like to go back?

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Indeed! I think we've all done jolly well!

 

Double all round! (Famous Grouse, naturally!)

Probably a lot more than 7500 post's if we were to count the removed ones.

13 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

And yet the Independent based their recent article around comments he made in 2010.....

 

I mean, really??!!

 

But of course a few of those with a 'hard'  agenda will lap-up any spiel that supports their cause.....

You think that's bad? The Mirror's article is all of 3 weeks old! And clearly, 3 weeks ago is the distant past.

Does anyone seriously think that Brexit is still going to go ahead?

 

Most MP's are against it.

The Lords are against it.

The EU doesn't want it.

Scotland doesn't want it.

Ireland doesn't want it.

Big business doesn't want it.

Academia is against it.

 

And now... the electorate appears not to want it.

 

And quite simply it is not do-able without considerable disruption and cost.

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Probably a lot more than 7500 post's if we were to count the removed ones.

I'm not satisfied with the result.  Any chance of a re-run?

4 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Does anyone seriously think that Brexit is still going to go ahead?

 

Most MP's are against it.

The Lords are against it.

The EU doesn't want it.

Scotland doesn't want it.

Ireland doesn't want it.

Big business doesn't want it.

Academia is against it.

 

And now... the electorate appears not to want it.

 

And quite simply it is not do-able without considerable disruption and cost.

 

 

 

Yet the people are for it, as shown by their vote in the democratic referendum.

17 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

No question of a re-run anyway.  A second referendum just isn't on for the sake of democracy.  But a referendum on the 'deal' -an oxymoron if there ever is on- could give an option for a cancellation.  Indeed from the same poll conducted by Survation that would  be the preferred option. 

 

"However, a majority said the best outcome would be to stop exit talks altogether and work to stay in the EU, while around a third backed paying a fee for access to the tariff-free customs union.

Less than a quarter support the Government's current strategy of leaving the customs union in order to strike free trade deals with other countries, as Labour signalled its strongest backing for staying in the bloc yet."

 

As more trade bodies come forward warning bells ringing, then I see the appetite for leaving receding still further. This thing will be shelved or ditched. 

 

 

 

Which brings me back full circle to my original opinion that the powers that be would find a way around the referendum result.

 

I've already pointed out that the polls predicted a remain vote before the referendum - so trying to use their latest polls as evidence is a bit of a non-starter.....

I thought the low pound was helping manufacturers and exports.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/04/uk-manufacturers-brexit-cuts-business?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


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11 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Yet the people are for it, as shown by their vote in the democratic referendum.

'Are' appears to be turning in to 'were'.

 

And in any case it is about what is do-able and at what cost.  We all want.