May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[dick dasterdly]

16 hours ago, Grouse said:

OK 333! Enlighten us. What tangible benefits do you expect from Brexit? Exactly?

Apologies for replying to a post addressed to another poster, but personally I'd expect an end to the open borders policy which will help the poorer and average segments of society.

 

On a 'fantasy' level, I'd like To see the EU dramatically reform itself and its undeniably wasteful/overly costly expenses/closer integration policies - which may even end up with many deciding that the EU is genuinely worthwhile (as opposed to just a 'better bet' than Brit. politicians.....), and therefore a  good time to re-join a more democratic, less wasteful of tax payer money etc.  EU.

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

A racist would never say he or she was joking. Iv met lots of jokers ( myself inc) and iv also met racists.  In my opinion the word racist has been thrown around far too much in the last decade. I have been called a racist twice in my lifetime, both times in the last year.  And both times I was disagreeing with someone on immigration. If someone would of called me that 5 or more years ago I would of been in shock and would instantly re-evaluate my opinion. Now I would just switch off and discontinue with the conversation or debate.  Anyway where was I??.... ah brexit ....?

 

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Old    l would put my hand up on some serious issues and be labelled as a racist but it usually comes from people who are hypocrites.  

 

When we talked about :- frogs,  krauts,  spics,  niggers,  w&gs  etc  it is and was and still is a derogatory term but was done in a joking neither the less, that's all l'm saying.   

I'm sorry but they do. It is very typical from a particular type. The other defence which also gets trotted out is the 'why-oh-why' political correctness jibe. The professional racists tend to use the second excuse more these days. Both still wheeled out whenever they are pulled up (which is not so much in Thailand well isn't that a surprise.....)

Edited July 8, 2017 by SheungWan

[goldenbrwn1]

5 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

I'm sorry but they do. It is very typical from a particular type. The other defence which also gets trotted out is the 'why-oh-why' political correctness jibe. The professional racists tend to use the second excuse more these days. Both still wheeled out whenever they are pulled up (which is not so much in Thailand well isn't that a surprise.....)

I hear populist is the new buzz word for describing a racist. 

 

So after brexit I suppose 52% of the UK and about the same in the US are all ....

Edited July 8, 2017 by goldenbrwn1

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Actually, I think you need 22 out of the 27 to agree.

It was purely a general viewpoint and not quite sure what you actually mean by 22 out of 27.

The exit agreement must be approved by a vote in the EU parliament and with the UK out of it that would leave 678 MEPs . I was under the impression that they voted on a majority basis and some countries have very few MEPs. The bottom 6 countries only have 40 votes between them, and it would only need the top 5 countries to get a majority.

At the end of the day it is a very complex combination as the exit agreement will address many different issues which any one country will have differing views on. You only have to look at the other side of the table.

[mommysboy]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deals-uk-benefits-limited-philip-hammond-eu-warning-a7829951.html

 

Spreadsheet demolishes a myth and pours cold water on CBI pland for an extended transition period.  At least he tells it the way it is.  The only Tory with any integrity.

 

But I wondered: if trade deals only have little or no benefits for UK, then why does it matter if we have one with EU?  Not wishing to build a case for the baiting Master Brexiters, yet it's something that needs explanation.

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

A racist would never say he or she was joking. Iv met lots of jokers ( myself inc) and iv also met racists.  In my opinion the word racist has been thrown around far too much in the last decade. I have been called a racist twice in my lifetime, both times in the last year.  And both times I was disagreeing with someone on immigration. If someone would of called me that 5 or more years ago I would of been in shock and would instantly re-evaluate my opinion. Now I would just switch off and discontinue with the conversation or debate.  Anyway where was I??.... ah brexit ....?

There is a HUGE difference between racist and disliking the 'open borders' EU policy!

 

I've met a few genuine racists in my time too - and was thanked by work colleagues later for pointing out the racism they too found abhorrent (but weren't 'brave' enough to say anything at the time about the appalling 'jokes'....).

 

The odd neighour who made clearly racist remarks - I too became a coward and just avoided them thereafter .

[sandyf]

24 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deals-uk-benefits-limited-philip-hammond-eu-warning-a7829951.html

 

Spreadsheet demolishes a myth and pours cold water on CBI pland for an extended transition period.  At least he tells it the way it is.  The only Tory with any integrity.

 

But I wondered: if trade deals only have little or no benefits for UK, then why does it matter if we have one with EU?  Not wishing to build a case for the baiting Master Brexiters, yet it's something that needs explanation.

It depends on how you want to read what he has said. I read it as he was saying that the trade deals being pushed by TM will not have any more benefit than current arrangements.

Like the US, currently the UK's biggest trading partner outside the EU, it is very unlikely that any new trade deal will improve the current trade surplus and every chance it will be reduced. The government is desperate for a trade deal as a UK WTO arrangement is likely to be worse than the current EU WTO arrangement which was negotiated on a potential market of over half billion.people. 

Edited July 8, 2017 by sandyf

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, jpinx said:

I give up in the face of a refusal to acknowledge what I was quoting.....   

 

 

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't these your words.

"Talk of crossing red lines is an ultimatum, but when associated with a phrase like "... a little bit..."  it just emphasises the duplicity of the politicial language used. "

[Srikcir]

6 minutes ago, Flustered said:

UK-US trade deal to happen quickly, says Trump

As the link points out - unlikely.

"But Sir Simon Fraser, a former diplomat who served as a permanent under-secretary at the Foreign Office, cast doubt on how soon any trade deal between the UK and the US could be reached.

"The point is we can't negotiate with them or anyone else until we've left the European Union.

And the Americans and others will not negotiate with us until they know what our relationship with the EU is going to be because the access we have in Europe is hugely important for the advantages that they can get from their relations with us."

 

Trump is known to forget or ignore coaching by his Cabinet with regard to complexities of foreign policy and rely solely on his own emotions. I suspect that should May begin detailed trade discussions with Trump now, the EU will respond with a hard Brexit trade negotiation. She's not going to engage trade discussions with the US now in anything other than the broadest terms. May will have to gently calm this child down to see the reality UK's exit from the EU without drawing an angry and destructive tweet.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Srikcir said:

As the link points out - unlikely.

"But Sir Simon Fraser, a former diplomat who served as a permanent under-secretary at the Foreign Office, cast doubt on how soon any trade deal between the UK and the US could be reached.

"The point is we can't negotiate with them or anyone else until we've left the European Union.

And the Americans and others will not negotiate with us until they know what our relationship with the EU is going to be because the access we have in Europe is hugely important for the advantages that they can get from their relations with us."

 

Trump is known to forget or ignore coaching by his Cabinet with regard to complexities of foreign policy and rely solely on his own emotions. I suspect that should May begin detailed trade discussions with Trump now, the EU will respond with a hard Brexit trade negotiation. She's not going to engage trade discussions with the US now in anything other than the broadest terms. May will have to gently calm this child down to see the reality UK's exit from the EU without drawing an angry and destructive tweet.

We're back to the ridiculous belief that negotiations aren't happening because its 'against the rules'....

[sandyf]

9 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

As the link points out - unlikely.

"But Sir Simon Fraser, a former diplomat who served as a permanent under-secretary at the Foreign Office, cast doubt on how soon any trade deal between the UK and the US could be reached.

"The point is we can't negotiate with them or anyone else until we've left the European Union.

And the Americans and others will not negotiate with us until they know what our relationship with the EU is going to be because the access we have in Europe is hugely important for the advantages that they can get from their relations with us."

 

Trump is known to forget or ignore coaching by his Cabinet with regard to complexities of foreign policy and rely solely on his own emotions. I suspect that should May begin detailed trade discussions with Trump now, the EU will respond with a hard Brexit trade negotiation. She's not going to engage trade discussions with the US now in anything other than the broadest terms. May will have to gently calm this child down to see the reality UK's exit from the EU without drawing an angry and destructive tweet.

Quite. There is no question that Trump wants a deal, after all he promised that he would put America first and reduce the trade deficit and he can see a sitting duck as it paddles away from the EU. The rest of the administration are more interested in a bigger fish.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Apologies for replying to a post addressed to another poster, but personally I'd expect an end to the open borders policy which will help the poorer and average segments of society.

 

On a 'fantasy' level, I'd like To see the EU dramatically reform itself and its undeniably wasteful/overly costly expenses/closer integration policies - which may even end up with many deciding that the EU is genuinely worthwhile (as opposed to just a 'better bet' than Brit. politicians.....), and therefore a  good time to re-join a more democratic, less wasteful of tax payer money etc.  EU.

Having said this, I'm not sure why I still care - as the poor/middle class have proven their lack of intelligence/common sense time and time again as they endorsed politicians that only helped the wealthy....

 

It would be nice to think that they have finally 'woken up' - but I doubt it .

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed as well as the off topic reply. 

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

I hear populist is the new buzz word for describing a racist. 

 

So after brexit I suppose 52% of the UK and about the same in the US are all ....

No you cannot suppose, However, whenever a racist feels that they have safety in numbers they let rip. And get irritated when someone pulls them up. The Brexit referendum result is not a get out of jail card for racists, though the ones in Thailand certainly think it is.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

Despite your protestations and "fake news", this blows your "fake news" out of the water.

 

UK-US trade deal to happen quickly, says Trump

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40540340

Hooray!

 

We're saved!

 

God bless America and God bless Donald Trump!

 

What a relief! I was worried about nothing

 

Great stuff! 

 

What does the agreement state in principle at least and when does it start!

 

I know Mr Trump ALWAYS sticks to what he says and I trust him ?

[jpinx]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't these your words.

"Talk of crossing red lines is an ultimatum, but when associated with a phrase like "... a little bit..."  it just emphasises the duplicity of the politicial language used. "

Apologies for the lack of a reference link, but it's buried in the past postings about the "bill" from EU for UK's departure.  I have no point to prove - it's there for reading by anyone with an open mind.  The EU talked about the redline being crossed if UK talked to future trading partners.  If you missed that point, it would explain your fundamental misunderstanding of what's going on in the run-up to the negotiations.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

There is a HUGE difference between racist and disliking the 'open borders' EU policy!

 

I've met a few genuine racists in my time too - and was thanked by work colleagues later for pointing out the racism they too found abhorrent (but weren't 'brave' enough to say anything at the time about the appalling 'jokes'....).

 

The odd neighour who made clearly racist remarks - I too became a coward and just avoided them thereafter .

 

22 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

No you cannot suppose, However, whenever a racist feels that they have safety in numbers they let rip. And get irritated when someone pulls them up. The Brexit referendum result is not a get out of jail card for racists, though the ones in Thailand certainly think it is.

I'd refer you to my post quoted above....

[Flustered]

Despite statements to the contrary from negative FMs who would rather see the UK suffer than admit they are wrong, trade talks with the USA start on July 24th. And the source is not the Daily Express.This can only strengthen TM's hand.

 

U.K. to Start U.S. Trade Talks on July 24 in Early Brexit Test

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-30/u-k-to-start-u-s-trade-talks-on-july-24-in-early-brexit-test

[Grouse]

https://fullfact.org/economy/uk-trade-usa/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/feb/24/uk-trade-exports-imports

 

Not easy to get at clear facts that are cutrent

 

Trump's stated intention is to repatriate jobs to USA and have "fairer" deals (presumably more favourable to USA)

 

I worry about allowing American agribusiness in. I also worry about giving corporate America access to the NHS. 

 

Without being the USA's tradesman's entrance to the EU I don't see what we have to offer? TM's leather trousers? Decent Whisky? Marmite? what? Somebody give me a clue?

Edited July 8, 2017 by Grouse

[goldenbrwn1]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

Despite statements to the contrary from negative FMs who would rather see the UK suffer than admit they are wrong, trade talks with the USA start on July 24th. And the source is not the Daily Express.This can only strengthen TM's hand.

 

U.K. to Start U.S. Trade Talks on July 24 in Early Brexit Test

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-30/u-k-to-start-u-s-trade-talks-on-july-24-in-early-brexit-test

Is it ok for me to be happy about this? Or shall I clink on the link in the next post instead and think nothing of it? 

[Grouse]

I see Germany's trade surplus is 300 Billion USD compared to China's 200 Billion USD and our deficit!

 

I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel for the UK for generations unless we start to get a grip!

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, Flustered said:

Despite statements to the contrary from negative FMs who would rather see the UK suffer than admit they are wrong, trade talks with the USA start on July 24th. And the source is not the Daily Express.This can only strengthen TM's hand.

 

U.K. to Start U.S. Trade Talks on July 24 in Early Brexit Test

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-30/u-k-to-start-u-s-trade-talks-on-july-24-in-early-brexit-test

Its one bit of damage limitation taken care of providing it can be done quickly- starting and finishing are not the same thing.

 

As your Chancellor states it won't change much.

[mommysboy]

25 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I see Germany's trade surplus is 300 Billion USD compared to China's 200 Billion USD and our deficit!

 

I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel for the UK for generations unless we start to get a grip!

Yup. Just signing up to replace the trade deficit we already have with EU, which could actually be tackled.

[Khun Han]

"We're at the back of the queue for a trade deal with the USA, and the EU is at the front."

 

How do you know?

 

"Because an anonymous German trade negotiator told us."

 

But a senior German politician has just announced the possibility of an EU trade war with the USA. And the president of the USA has announced that he is going to fast-track a trade deal with the UK.

 

"Ah.....er.....a trade deal with the USA is not worth having."

[ilostmypassword]

27 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

"We're at the back of the queue for a trade deal with the USA, and the EU is at the front."

 

How do you know?

 

"Because an anonymous German trade negotiator told us."

 

But a senior German politician has just announced the possibility of an EU trade war with the USA. And the president of the USA has announced that he is going to fast-track a trade deal with the UK.

 

"Ah.....er.....a trade deal with the USA is not worth having."

And the President of the United States is not one to make empty promises. Especially not this president.

[elliss]

On 7/6/2017 at 4:34 PM, Kwasaki said:

Sod the US the UK can buy cars from China and give heave ho to Germany and Europe and the Japs if necessary,  don't let any guns to head demands from a bunch of European foreign filth tell England what to do,  we are British.  

 

 

 Really , my faithful  Kwacker ,  is a Jap  import . UK/EU cannot compete .

  Fond memories  of my old  BSA ,  Gold Star .  Those were the days of Great Britain.

   Never to return , RIP .

Edited July 8, 2017 by elliss

[iReason]

On July 6, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Kwasaki said:

...don't let any guns to head demands from a bunch of European foreign filth tell England what to do,  we are British.

 

Hear ye, hear ye!

You are so right.

You have your "Royals".

 

"Japs" and "foreign filth" not needed.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, elliss said:

 

 

 Really , my faithful  Kwacker ,  is a Jap  import . UK/EU cannot compete .

  Fond memories  of my old  BSA ,  Gold Star .  Those were the days of Great Britain.

   Never to return , RIP .

I had a Raleigh Bicycle and Singer Gazelle and Austin Allegro.

Edited July 8, 2017 by SheungWan

[Khun Han]

8 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

3 hours ago, elliss said:

 

 

 Really , my faithful  Kwacker ,  is a Jap  import . UK/EU cannot compete .

  Fond memories  of my old  BSA ,  Gold Star .  Those were the days of Great Britain.

   Never to return , RIP .

I had a Raleigh Bicycle and Singer Gazelle and Austin Allegro.

Edited 5 minutes ago by SheungWan

 

BSA Starfire for me (probably fairly close to the nadir of British engineering), followed by an Allegro.....er.....wait.....we have something in common. Forget I said that.

[Khun Han]

4 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

And the President of the United States is not one to make empty promises. Especially not this president.

 

Hey, I'm hardly a fan of Trump. But, in view of the fat that he's only been POTUS for a short few months, has he yet had the opportunity to actually renege on any major promises yet?