May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Flustered]

2 minutes ago, Momofarang said:

C'mon who is going to say such a thing? And yes Britain has a recent past, great in many ways, but this irrelevant to the EU/Brexit saga, which is merely the confrontation  of isolationists VS those who have understood that preserving borders will lead to our global demise.  

I see how many people think this way which is a bit sad.

 

The unification of Europe under EU terms is not a lot different to the unification of Europe through war.

 

Some people like to be subjugated but others prefer freedom.

 

The UK has chosen freedom as it has dome over the centuries in Europe. Without the UK taking the stance it did, Europe would either be a French or German state.

 

 

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Just how many places did you live in England to make such a judgement about Eastbourne?

Is this an interrogation ? 7 although they weren't what you would call picturesque places with the exception of Bournemouth which I found quite nice but I didn't live there long, the worst place was undoubtedly Enfield followed by Dagenham. I would have liked to have visited York and the Lake District but never got round to it, The Lake District is only if you needn't work for a living. I also liked Cornwall but never lived there (the locals told me it was awful in winter, dead )

 I'm not saying that there aren't nice places to live in the UK, I just haven't been there and can only speak about my own experiences, I had to go where the work was, in the UK and on the continent, the continent was better from my point of view as to how one was treated as a working person and the living standards were better which meant ones free time was better spent, in England I would go swimming in the sea, walking in the downs, sometimes pony riding in Wales. In Germany I did a lot of skiing, ( I didn't live too far from the alps) once skiing at night with lamps with friends down from the mountain and through a forest directly into an almost magically light up small town,most memorable, swimming,sailing and canoeing on mountain lakes with the alps as a magnificent backdrop and of course the beer gardens with good food, beer and music, no fights, no rowdy behaviour. The Markets were also an entertaining visit.very clean but lively with street musicians, street cafes and small beer gardens and very easy to get into a conversation with the locals.

 The Germans actual like the British. For me it was all about atmosphere, I found Bavaria,even the Ruhr, Austria and Switzerland brilliant places to be. 

[Khun Han]

33 minutes ago, Momofarang said:

C'mon who is going to say such a thing? And yes Britain has a recent past, great in many ways, but this irrelevant to the EU/Brexit saga, which is merely the confrontation  of isolationists VS those who have understood that preserving borders will lead to our global demise.  

 

Actually, it's slackening borders which is leading to our demise, sometimes in the most brutal fashion.

[dick dasterdly]

23 minutes ago, Momofarang said:

C'mon who is going to say such a thing? And yes Britain has a recent past, great in many ways, but this irrelevant to the EU/Brexit saga, which is merely the confrontation  of isolationists VS those who have understood that preserving borders will lead to our global demise.  

"but this irrelevant to the EU/Brexit saga, which is merely the confrontation  of isolationists VS those who have understood that preserving borders will lead to our global demise."

 

And yet various countries insist on proof of a reasonably/well paid job for immigrants - and it hasn't lead to their demise.

 

 

[mommysboy]

The press is bound to look after the interests of business, which for once coincides with the poor economic outlook of the downtrodden.  I wish it was less sensationalist that's for sure.  Every news item seems to be delivered as a bombshell. Anybody with any sense is surely worried about the economic outlook of the UK: in my view the Government is all at sea.  I can hardly believe a Tory government is being so blithe about Brexit.  I maintain this is not really about Brexit- that's a side-show- and the main issue is punds in pockets, or to be more exact the lack of.

[Khun Han]

24 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Is this an interrogation ? 7 although they weren't what you would call picturesque places with the exception of Bournemouth which I found quite nice but I didn't live there long, the worst place was undoubtedly Enfield followed by Dagenham. I would have liked to have visited York and the Lake District but never got round to it, The Lake District is only if you needn't work for a living. I also liked Cornwall but never lived there (the locals told me it was awful in winter, dead )

 I'm not saying that there aren't nice places to live in the UK, I just haven't been there and can only speak about my own experiences, I had to go where the work was, in the UK and on the continent, the continent was better from my point of view as to how one was treated as a working person and the living standards were better which meant ones free time was better spent, in England I would go swimming in the sea, walking in the downs, sometimes pony riding in Wales. In Germany I did a lot of skiing, ( I didn't live too far from the alps) once skiing at night with lamps with friends down from the mountain and through a forest directly into an almost magically light up small town,most memorable, swimming,sailing and canoeing on mountain lakes with the alps as a magnificent backdrop and of course the beer gardens with good food, beer and music, no fights, no rowdy behaviour. The Markets were also an entertaining visit.very clean but lively with street musicians, street cafes and small beer gardens and very easy to get into a conversation with the locals.

 The Germans actual like the British. For me it was all about atmosphere, I found Bavaria,even the Ruhr, Austria and Switzerland brilliant places to be. 

 

I was just thinking you must be about 150 years old if you'd lived in a lot of places in England, and had lived abroad for the last forty-odd years .

 

On a personal level, I get on fine with Germans in general. It's their Establishment I don't like or trust. But I could say the same about ours to a large extent.

[soalbundy]

37 minutes ago, nontabury said:

So you left the UK 45 yrs ago, before the EEC never mind the E.U.   Never to return. Your only connection with the U.K. is your British passport, yet for some strange reason, you resent the British people who have remained,  voting to re-take control of THEIR own country. Interesting. 

well I can't say resent, I think it's a mistake but as you say I have no cards in the game. I do think the expression 'take our country back' is rather stupid, it implies that the ordinary person has some influence on policies which affect them, apart from the 4 yearly cross on the ballot paper they don't, they don't anywhere. One would think from some comments that due to the EU everyone is walking around in chains. Admittedly there is a flood of regulations from enthusiastic civil servants in Brussels but that doesn't really affect most people and much of the regulations,some stupid of course, have done a lot of good especially in respect of the environment, food hygiene and workers rights. My father was a whole seller in New Covent Garden (turned over millions each year) he would write to me angrily about the food safety regulations from the EU, he didn't like it that unloaded vegetable boxes had to be placed on wooden duck boards to keep the street dirt from the vegetables or that his huge refrigerators ( like rooms really) had to be cleaned and inspected at regular intervals and the temperature controls checked etc. 'We've never had to do that before,how dare they'' Book keeping was also regulated which stopped a lot of 'bung money' as it was called.''How am I supposed to get rid of my black money''

 

I can't see the positives of leaving,what I find amusing is the true blue Brit flag waving and rabble rousing from such papers as the 'Express,' reminiscent of Victorian times almost, I hate sentiment, I remember watching on TV the fleet sail out to the Falklands and people singing don't cry for me Argentina, it made me laugh.

[Grouse]

16 hours ago, SheungWan said:

 

If there is one thing we can be thoroughly grateful for on this thread it is the happiness antidote to negativity provided by our regular forum Brexiteers.

 

Laughter is the best medicine; except in the case of impotence.

[soalbundy]

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I was just thinking you must be about 150 years old if you'd lived in a lot of places in England, and had lived abroad for the last forty-odd years .

 

On a personal level, I get on fine with Germans in general. It's their Establishment I don't like or trust. But I could say the same about ours to a large extent.

It is my birthday today, I'm 69, I have lived independently since I was 16 when I moved from home to start an engineering apprenticeship in Enfield, RSAF, it's closed now,our small arms now are rubbish,the German firm Heckler und Kock had to do sub contract work on the SA 80 to make it fit for service, but I digress.After my apprenticeship I moved about a bit, that's all

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I hate to say it but this thread is losing its appeal and objectivity for me. There is a clear divide between those who voted to stay and those that voted to leave. What is clear to me the many arguments posted by TV members on the remain, are all could be, maybe, possible and might be. This has been the case since the vote in June 2016. Predictions that have not happened and may happen in the future. We haven't even left the EU yet and it would seem the EU is trying anyway they can, to keep us in. The media and other Europhiles are trying their best to paint a picture of doom without the EU, which I find farcical.

 

What is clear is that the talks have started and there will be lots of chests thrust out and fists banging. Those here who champion the cause of the EU still seem to demand the UK should stay in. Why when, their seems to be an anger and even appetite for the UK to be destroyed economically.  If the hate for the UK is so strong why doesn't the other member states just say goodbye, we don't want you. The questions answers itself.

 

From  the express today which sums up the position the UK is in for me. The glass is half full not empty.

 

"But this study offers a more rounded perspective. It reminds us not to lose sight of the UK’s potent global strengths."

She added: “Our country’s spirit of entrepreneurialism, mastery of technology and renowned business environment all point to a long term, collective, ability to rebuild our economy after Brexit.

"The UK possesses the characteristics to not only withstand, but also capitalize on major change.

"I hope every business leader is looking not just at the risks of Brexit but also the opportunities.” 

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/830275/Britain-global-change-Brexit-Boom-KMPG

I do admire your unshakable optimism, Gravy! Haven't heard from you for a while. Hols?

 

One of the big difficulties in the U.K. Which has nothing to do with Brexit is venture capital. How does an entrepreneur ( WARNING FRENCH WORD) get funding? Seed capital can be found but the crucial 1M to 10M is very difficult.

 

Then we have business management and marketing. All those MBAs! Where are the benefits?

 

The Brexit angle is that we do get oodles of research funds and a huge local market like the USA. Such a boon.

 

I've had venture capital start ups three times now. It's not easy! We have more pointy heads per sq ft than anywhere in the world. Benefitting from that is not easy.

 

I would like to see more tech, eng, science types closer to the controls. 

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

You are so right about this thread. I voted remain ...took a while to be honest to get over the result but I did. All I'm trying to do is concentrate on the positives aswell as not ignoring the problems with leaving brexit. Others should really give it a go.......

 

 

 

I'm giving it a stay ?

[mommysboy]

38 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

The press is bound to look after the interests of business, which for once coincides with the poor economic outlook of the downtrodden.  I wish it was less sensationalist that's for sure.  Every news item seems to be delivered as a bombshell. Anybody with any sense is surely worried about the economic outlook of the UK: in my view the Government is all at sea.  I can hardly believe a Tory government is being so blithe about Brexit.  I maintain this is not really about Brexit- that's a side-show- and the main issue is pounds in pockets, or to be more exact the lack of.

 

[mommysboy]

15 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

It is my birthday today, I'm 69, I have lived independently since I was 16 when I moved from home to start an engineering apprenticeship in Enfield, RSAF, it's closed now,our small arms now are rubbish,the German firm Heckler und Kock had to do sub contract work on the SA 80 to make it fit for service, but I digress.After my apprenticeship I moved about a bit, that's all

Happy birthday.  May you have many, many more.

[soalbundy]

Just now, mommysboy said:

Happy birthday.  May you have many, many more.

Thank you, I spent most of the day at the transport office renewing my Thai Motorbike and car license.They are going to get serious soon with the upgraded renewals,they are going to last two days long with additional tests, maybe I'll be dead before then and brexit wont have happened yet.

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

"according to think-tank Bruegel"

 

 

Folks, Breugel is a think-tank based in Brussells. It's director is a German who joined it from the European Commission. You just couldn't make this stuff up, could you?

 

Meanwhile, not a peep from any of the major finance houses about moving en mass to Europe.

 

Just more of the relentless Project Fear nonsense.

Are you referring to Bruegel the elder? First class chap!

[soalbundy]

4 hours ago, Flustered said:

And do not forget 200 years of saving Europe from French or German tyranny and enslavement resulting in Napoleonic Wars and 2 world wars and the loss of millions of lives.

 

Without the UK, Europe today would be a completely different place.

 

Now waits for the Europhiles to say it is a pity that one of these incidents did not go the other way and that Europe would have been a better place for it.

Oh GOD

[soalbundy]

4 hours ago, Flustered said:

OK, hypocrisy it is then

Flustered is a good name for you

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I only have one passport, that passport allowed me to live in places which weren't my country of origin because the UK is in the EU so i could feel at home anywhere in the EU with a British passport (jesus it's like talking to a child)

 

When I used to live in Eastbourne it was one of the nicer places to live in the UK compared to other places there that I had lived in, it didn't beat anything that I found on the continent,even Helsinki in winter was better

Very hard to explain to those who have not experienced living fully immersed in another EU country. I fully understand your points!

 

And no, a forces posting doesn't count in this respect ?

[Flustered]

Just now, soalbundy said:

Flustered is a good name for you

If you  bothered checking, you would see why I used that name.

 

I do not run down the country of my birth while stating how good it is to hold a British passport. 

 

Anyway, why do you care, you live in Thailand and have no intention of returning to the UK. You have no ties to the UK pension wise as you worked in Europe all of you life so why even bother commenting on a subject that has no affect on you?

 

 

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, Flustered said:

And do not forget 200 years of saving Europe from French or German tyranny and enslavement resulting in Napoleonic Wars and 2 world wars and the loss of millions of lives.

 

Without the UK, Europe today would be a completely different place.

 

Now waits for the Europhiles to say it is a pity that one of these incidents did not go the other way and that Europe would have been a better place for it.

Deary me! Come on Flustered! You know better than that! What about when Blucher saved Wellington at Waterloo? It's been a team effort in Europe and the EU team effort has provided peace in my lifetime.

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

I loved the way how the msm played down the drop in inflation, headlining the 'temporary drop in oil prices' as the cause. Closer inspection shows that food prices have also fallen, which will be the filter through from the partial recovery of Sterling. But they don't play that aspect up.

Oil is priced in USD. Trumpenomics has resulted in a strengthening in Cable and a reduction in pump prices. 2% inflation is the target and food prices are indeed rising. What is your point?

 

I don't see GBP strengthening against the Euro.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Grouse

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

His love for Germany, coupled with his hate for England, probably explains a lot about his position.

Neither of us hate the UK; embarrassed is more like it

[soalbundy]

6 minutes ago, Flustered said:

If you  bothered checking, you would see why I used that name.

 

I do not run down the country of my birth while stating how good it is to hold a British passport. 

 

Anyway, why do you care, you live in Thailand and have no intention of returning to the UK. You have no ties to the UK pension wise as you worked in Europe all of you life so why even bother commenting on a subject that has no affect on you?

 

 

I didn't state how good it is to hold a British passport, it is merely a fact that I have one and as we are in the EU it was possible to regard Europe as my home.

 

As for running my country down, I merely expressed my personal dislike of the UK as it gave me no opportunities despite hard work during the time I was there and on the continent I was welcomed with open arms,I worked hard and got the opportunities that I wanted. I dislike sentiment,especially exaggerated patriotism, It was Samual Johnson in 1775 who said 'Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel' surprisingly modern for his time ( I liked and still do like reading British history)

 

I do get a small British pension for the time that I worked there, 153 pounds a month, enough for the utility bills. My German pension is, unlike those of British pensioner expats here, increased every year no matter where I live.

[Flustered]

 

14 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Deary me! Come on Flustered! You know better than that! What about when Blucher saved Wellington at Waterloo? It's been a team effort in Europe and the EU team effort has provided peace in my lifetime.

And you know full well that this is one of histories great debates. Was it Wellington or Blucher that won the day?

 

General consensus is that it was Wellington as Blucher arrived late and Wellington had already made plans for the Prussians not turning up.

 

Without the British, Napolean would have won the Spanish wars and overrun the whole of Europe. 

 

Surely you are not giving the Prussians the credit for having saved Europe from the French?

 

I state categorically that without the UK standing up against tyranny, Europe would now be very different and under French or German rule.

[soalbundy]

20 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Deary me! Come on Flustered! You know better than that! What about when Blucher saved Wellington at Waterloo? It's been a team effort in Europe and the EU team effort has provided peace in my lifetime.

No.No, as far as he is concerned the Brits did it all, He will have to look up Blucher now.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Flustered said:

 

And you know full well that this is one of histories great debates. Was it Wellington or Blucher that won the day?

 

General consensus is that it was Wellington as Blucher arrived late and Wellington had already made plans for the Prussians not turning up.

 

Without the British, Napolean would have won the Spanish wars and overrun the whole of Europe. 

 

Surely you are not giving the Prussians the credit for having saved Europe from the French?

 

I state categorically that without the UK standing up against tyranny, Europe would now be very different and under French or German rule.

Wellington was on the edge of losing, it wasn't for nothing that he said ''send me the night or send me the Prussians''

[Flustered]

13 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I escaped the UK when i was 21 and lived in the EU for over 45 years, never went back, not even for a visit and now live in Thailand,wild horses couldn't drag me back to that bland, boring, merry old England.

 

6 hours ago, soalbundy said:

For me it isn't just about the financials, it is an emotional thing about belonging to the big European family, about being at home with my British passport in Europe with the feeling that I am not in a Foreign country I am at home,they just speak a different language. 

 

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I didn't state how good it is to hold a British passport, it is merely a fact that I have one and as we are in the EU it was possible to regard Europe as my home.

 

As for running my country down, I merely expressed my personal dislike of the UK as it gave me no opportunities despite hard work during the time I was there and on the continent I was welcomed with open arms,I worked hard and got the opportunities that I wanted. I dislike sentiment,especially exaggerated patriotism, It was Samual Johnson in 1775 who said 'Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel' surprisingly modern for his time ( I liked and still do like reading British history)

 

I do get a small British pension for the time that I worked there, 153 pounds a month, enough for the utility bills. My German pension is, unlike those of British pensioner expats here, increased every year no matter where I live.

You "escaped the UK", "Wild horses couldn't drag you back", you "are at home with your British passport" Sounds like running down the UK while being happy to have a UK passport to me.

 

And how did you get a State pension of £153 per month based on just 5 years contributions when you need at least 10 years to qualify?

[Momofarang]

3 minutes ago, Flustered said:

And how did you get a State pension of £153 per month based on just 5 years contributions when you need at least 10 years to qualify?

I am flustered...

[vogie]

6 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I'm an alien here and accepted that because I knew I would be but I have lived most of my working life in Europe,not as a holiday maker, and have got used to the idea that the whole of the EU was my home not just the grotty little island that I turned my back on, so for me it is harder to accept than the average Brit who has only ever known working in the UK

You have never been to York, you have never been to the Lake District, I am betting you have not seen much of your country of birth, yet you have the gall to call the country that gave you a start in life "a grotty hole" it says so much about you, you don't sound totally thick, so your 'country' must have gave you a good education for you to have acheived so much in life. You should be ashamed of yourself and the people that gave you 'likes' should be ashamed too. The UK is better off without people like you!

[soalbundy]

Just now, Flustered said:

 

 

You "escaped the UK", "Wild horses couldn't drag you back", you "are at home with your British passport" Sounds like running down the UK while being happy to have a UK passport to me.

 

And how did you get a State pension of £153 per month based on just 5 years contributions when you need at least 10 years to qualify?

You misinterpreted being at home with a British Passport, perhaps my writing skills weren't up to it, being at home in Europe with a British passport, made possible because we are in the EU. I consider escape appropriate it took a lot of planning and net working, I hitched around Europe at 22 for a year, working here and there especially in German firms, I returned to the UK for three or four years while still keeping contact with Germans that I had met, saving money with the object of running. I managed to get a job almost immediately upon arriving in Germany.

I get the basic pension 39 pounds something a week, how that was worked out precisely I don't know, I stayed an extra year at school so I started my apprenticeship with 17 not 16, it was a long time ago, I think that year counted towards my pension, it was certainly considered as 'time' when the German authorities worked out my German pension ( they requested and received my working time in the UK from DWP) when they considered my application for early retirement (minimum of 35 years worked,which I easily fulfilled)