May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

On the lighter side of life.

 

It seems that Nigel Farage did not completely escape attention in the new year honours list, for services to country and Brexit:

 

https://rochdaleherald.co.uk/2017/12/29/dog-shit-bin-rochdale-park-named-nigel-farage-new-years-honours-list/

 

Ah yes, Rochdale Council, who's leader had to resign recently because he was caught out lying to the commission which is investigating the childrens' homes frequented by Establishment paedophile Cyril Smith. And who's social services department covered up for years the activities of an extensive muslim paedophile ring, until chief CPS prosecutor Nazir Afzal took the the bull by the horns. You'd think Rochdale Council would stay away from such inanity, and keep it's collective head down. A spotlight is the last thing that grubby institution needs (though it definitely deserves one).

[simoh1490]

20 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Ah yes, Rochdale Council, who's leader had to resign recently because he was caught out lying to the commission which is investigating the childrens' homes frequented by Establishment paedophile Cyril Smith. And who's social services department covered up for years the activities of an extensive muslim paedophile ring, until chief CPS prosecutor Nazir Afzal took the the bull by the horns. You'd think Rochdale Council would stay away from such inanity, and keep it's collective head down. A spotlight is the last thing that grubby institution needs (though it definitely deserves one).

Arf arf....it's a spoof, a funny, you're not meant to take it seriously, a little light entertainment for the holidays! 

[talahtnut]

15 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Arf arf....it's a spoof, a funny, you're not meant to take it seriously, a little light entertainment for the holidays! 

Lack of empathy is not amusing.

[talahtnut]

15 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Arf arf....it's a spoof, a funny, you're not meant to take it seriously, a little light entertainment for the holidays! 

Lack of empathy is not amusing.

[simoh1490]

5 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Lack of empathy is not amusing.

[talahtnut]

20 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

This is what I call funny mate: https://youtu.be/esOiB_fanzI

[simoh1490]

30 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

This is what I call funny mate: https://youtu.be/esOiB_fanzI

An oldie but goodie.

[Grouse]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/30/lord-adonis-resignation-brexit-policy-theresa-may-whitehall-morale-collapsed

 

Interesting piece

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/30/lord-adonis-resignation-brexit-policy-theresa-may-whitehall-morale-collapsed

 

Interesting piece

Only if you value the opinion of a drama queen.  

[persimmon]

I was undecided before the referendum - could see both sides of the argument.Then I watched Dave C. on Question time and a member of the public asked him why,exactly are we sending c. £9 billion to the EU every year ? He blustered and could offer no reasonable explanation.Thats when I decided which way to vote.

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Only if you value the opinion of a drama queen.  

He's a pretty senior guy, drafted in from Labour and plenty of government experience, plus he's a member of the House of Lords, it's hardly likely he's a drama queen!

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Only if you value the opinion of a drama queen.  

 

Not only a drama queen, but clearly a Walter Mitty character as well. He keeps claiming that Virgin and Stagecoach will get £2bn of their franchise money back, then says it's hundreds of millions, but the loss could become billions if other franchises get the same deal.

 

And, for all his pithy claims about the government falling out with the civil service, and playing politics with it over brexit, the series of texts with Bernadette Kelly (the most senior DOT civil servant) shows her accusing him of playing politics. And of misinterpreting the franchise re-negotiation over which he eventually resigned. And his playing politics is a theme which shines out from all his recent comments.

 

My money's on his scumbag mate Blair putting him up to this.

[nauseus]

17 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Not only a drama queen, but clearly a Walter Mitty character as well. He keeps claiming that Virgin and Stagecoach will get £2bn of their franchise money back, then says it's hundreds of millions, but the loss could become billions if other franchises get the same deal.

 

And, for all his pithy claims about the government falling out with the civil service, and playing politics with it over brexit, the series of texts with Bernadette Kelly (the most senior DOT civil servant) shows her accusing him of playing politics. And of misinterpreting the franchise re-negotiation over which he eventually resigned. And his playing politics is a theme which shines out from all his recent comments.

 

My money's on his scumbag mate Blair putting him up to this.

And his middle name is Gina 

 

Happy New Year All 

[Grouse]

28 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Not only a drama queen, but clearly a Walter Mitty character as well. He keeps claiming that Virgin and Stagecoach will get £2bn of their franchise money back, then says it's hundreds of millions, but the loss could become billions if other franchises get the same deal.

 

And, for all his pithy claims about the government falling out with the civil service, and playing politics with it over brexit, the series of texts with Bernadette Kelly (the most senior DOT civil servant) shows her accusing him of playing politics. And of misinterpreting the franchise re-negotiation over which he eventually resigned. And his playing politics is a theme which shines out from all his recent comments.

 

My money's on his scumbag mate Blair putting him up to this.

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/east-coast-franchise-to-end-three-years-early-as-grayling-accused-of-misleading-public

 

Why will the Cons not even consider nationalising the railways and utilities? I guess Minford wouldn't like it ?

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

Not only a drama queen, but clearly a Walter Mitty character as well. He keeps claiming that Virgin and Stagecoach will get £2bn of their franchise money back, then says it's hundreds of millions, but the loss could become billions if other franchises get the same deal.

 

And, for all his pithy claims about the government falling out with the civil service, and playing politics with it over brexit, the series of texts with Bernadette Kelly (the most senior DOT civil servant) shows her accusing him of playing politics. And of misinterpreting the franchise re-negotiation over which he eventually resigned. And his playing politics is a theme which shines out from all his recent comments.

 

My money's on his scumbag mate Blair putting him up to this.

 

Just doing some reading up on Adonis, and was surprised to discover that the only elected position he's ever held is as a local councillor in Oxford in the late 1980s! Astonishing!

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

Just doing some reading up on Adonis, and was surprised to discover that the only elected position he's ever held is as a local councillor in Oxford in the late 1980s! Astonishing!

Or not! 

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Just doing some reading up on Adonis, and was surprised to discover that the only elected position he's ever held is as a local councillor in Oxford in the late 1980s! Astonishing!

From council care at age 11, to near the top of government, even more astonishing, if only more people on the lower end of the scale were so capable!!!

 

"Adonis and his sister were placed in care because their father was working long hours and was not able to cope with sole parental responsibilities. Adonis lived in a council children's home until the age of 11, when he was awarded a local education authority grant to attend Kingham Hill School, a boarding school in Oxfordshire.^[6]

Adonis gained admittance to Keble College, Oxford, where he graduated with a First Class Bachelor of Arts degree in Modern History.^[7] He continued his education at Oxford and subsequently gained a doctorate with a thesis on the British aristocracy of the late 19th century at Christ Church, before being appointed to a Fellowship in History and Politics at Nuffield College.^[1][6]"

From 1991 to 1996, he was an education and industry correspondent at the Financial Times, eventually becoming their public policy editor.^[1] In 1996, he moved to The Observer to work as a political columnist, leader writer and editor.^[1]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Adonis,_Baron_Adonis

 

 

 

[metisdead]

A post insulting another member has been removed as well as the replies. 

[oldhippy]

While I too very much dislike Blair, calling the ex British Prime Minister a "scumbag" is most inappropriate.

Also it adds nothing to the debate.

[talahtnut]

15 hours ago, oldhippy said:

While I too very much dislike Blair, calling the ex British Prime Minister a "scumbag" is most inappropriate.

Also it adds nothing to the debate.

But he IS!

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

While I too very much dislike Blair, calling the ex British Prime Minister a "scumbag" is most inappropriate.

Also it adds nothing to the debate.

 

In view of the fact that his decisions (based on his telling lies to parliament) led to the deaths of more than a million innocent civilians, I consider 'scumbag' to be a very mild adjective for him.

[aright]

On ‎26‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 4:48 PM, aright said:

"The EU can have whatever relationship and deals it likes with Turkey and the Ukraine. So long as the UK is out of the EU, their relations with other non-EU states is a matter for them.

 

Notice how this has come not from the EU itself, but from its puppet-masters - the Germans. "

 

On ‎27‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 12:26 AM, oldhippy said:

German "puppet masters".

Oh dear.

 

One thing I truly underestimated when I started following various brexit threads, is the deep rooted racist hatred of some ancient Brits against the Germans.

 

On ‎27‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 12:47 AM, melvinmelvin said:

I am amased by the Merkel fobia and the Germany fobia expressed by manx Brexiters

Weird really

 

On ‎27‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 5:16 AM, Grouse said:

Yes, really embarrassing

I have been away for a few days  so apologies for a late response.

This was prompted by a deplorable lack of education, understanding of what a puppet master is. He or she is a person who pulls the strings and controls what goes on beneath them. I assume most of you have had a boss in your life.

Can you tell me where the use of puppet master crosses the unacceptable boundaries of  race, colour, creed, religion, age or gender?

 

 

[Basil B]

3 hours ago, talahtnut said:

4 hours ago, oldhippy said:

While I too very much dislike Blair, calling the ex British Prime Minister a "scumbag" is most inappropriate.

Also it adds nothing to the debate.

But he IS!

Not a nice thing to say...

 

Again I do not like the creep, but you can not blame Brexit on him.

[simoh1490]

And I don't care for the man either. But the fact he is a three-term Prime Minister means he must have got many things right.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

And I don't care for the man either. But the fact he is a three-term Prime Minister means he must have got many things right.

 

Yes, I suppose convincing the country that they never had it so good, by selling off the last of the family heirlooms and opening up the banking world to unlimited legalised fraud was 'getting many things right'. And whilst all these shenanigans were going on, he finished off Heath's and Major's task of selling us down the river to the EU. AND threw in a nice little bonus of taking us into an illegal war, with a combination of his first class acting skills and outright lies.

[Khun Han]

9 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

10 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Just doing some reading up on Adonis, and was surprised to discover that the only elected position he's ever held is as a local councillor in Oxford in the late 1980s! Astonishing!

From council care at age 11, to near the top of government, even more astonishing, if only more people on the lower end of the scale were so capable!!!

 

"Adonis and his sister were placed in care because their father was working long hours and was not able to cope with sole parental responsibilities. Adonis lived in a council children's home until the age of 11, when he was awarded a local education authority grant to attend Kingham Hill School, a boarding school in Oxfordshire.^[6]

Adonis gained admittance to Keble College, Oxford, where he graduated with a First Class Bachelor of Arts degree in Modern History.^[7] He continued his education at Oxford and subsequently gained a doctorate with a thesis on the British aristocracy of the late 19th century at Christ Church, before being appointed to a Fellowship in History and Politics at Nuffield College.^[1][6]"

From 1991 to 1996, he was an education and industry correspondent at the Financial Times, eventually becoming their public policy editor.^[1] In 1996, he moved to The Observer to work as a political columnist, leader writer and editor.^[1]

 

His CV is outstanding civil servant material. But he didn't go down that route: he entered politics instead. I find the fact that a politician who has never been elected to high political office has spent a large chunk of their career in high political office quite disturbing. Don't you?

[simoh1490]

I realise Han that in your world it's important if not vital to counter any and every post by people who are perceived to not be in favour of Brexit, regardless of the material it contains or the subject it attempts to discuss. It's important however to retain a certain amount of objectivity in any debate otherwise your co-debaters will come to think you disagree with everything other than Brexit at any cost.

 

Take Lord Adonis for example: it's already been clarified that he spent his early years in care yet despite that unprivileged upbringing he made it through Oxford and carved out an enviable career for himself. The fact that he entered government without having been elected to serve says nothing other than you don't understand how government works, in that it uses capable unelected people in a range of positions and roles, if it relied solely on people who are elected by the people it simply wouldn't have the skills it needs to do its job.

 

And Blair, as we've all said repeatedly, none of us care for him but that doesn't stop us from acknowledging the fact he was elected by the British people three times over hence the man deserves some respect. Without wishing to turn this thread into a forensic analysis of the achievements and failings of Tony Blair, he is seen by you and others as anti-Briexit hence his entire career is to be damned and done nothing but bad things in your eyes. Ditto Adonis who, because he was operating at a senior level of government and is seen to be opposed to Brexit, he also must be labelled as a drama queen and his means of career advancement queried.

 

In summary, you think, anyone who opposes Brexit in any shape or form is to be attacked personally and their pedigree and career questioned, not the arguments they raise or the reasons they give for disagreeing with you but the people themselves. It's a useful tactic to attack the person rather than the post but it does little to enhance the quality of the debate or to sway peoples views, until that position changes this so-called debate on Brexit is going to remain hostile and largely meaningless in debating terms. 

[Khun Han]

24 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I realise Han that in your world it's important if not vital to counter any and every post by people who are perceived to not be in favour of Brexit, regardless of the material it contains or the subject it attempts to discuss. It's important however to retain a certain amount of objectivity in any debate otherwise your co-debaters will come to think you disagree with everything other than Brexit at any cost.

 

Take Lord Adonis for example: it's already been clarified that he spent his early years in care yet despite that unprivileged upbringing he made it through Oxford and carved out an enviable career for himself. The fact that he entered government without having been elected to serve says nothing other than you don't understand how government works, in that it uses capable unelected people in a range of positions and roles, if it relied solely on people who are elected by the people it simply wouldn't have the skills it needs to do its job.

 

And Blair, as we've all said repeatedly, none of us care for him but that doesn't stop us from acknowledging the fact he was elected by the British people three times over hence the man deserves some respect. Without wishing to turn this thread into a forensic analysis of the achievements and failings of Tony Blair, he is seen by you and others as anti-Briexit hence his entire career is to be damned and done nothing but bad things in your eyes. Ditto Adonis who, because he was operating at a senior level of government and is seen to be opposed to Brexit, he also must be labelled as a drama queen and his means of career advancement queried.

 

In summary, you think, anyone who opposes Brexit in any shape or form is to be attacked personally and their pedigree and career questioned, not the arguments they raise or the reasons they give for disagreeing with you but the people themselves. It's a useful tactic to attack the person rather than the post but it does little to enhance the quality of the debate or to sway peoples views, until that position changes this so-called debate on Brexit is going to remain hostile and largely meaningless in debating terms. 

 

I will ignore the usual personal attack. Andrew Adonis is a capable man. I have highlighted his inappropriate use of his unelected position to undermine a democratic government trying to carry out a democratic decision. His senior civil servant in his last role in government took the same view, as seen by the communications published.

 

My opposition to the scumbag war criminal traitor Blair (who is a close personal friend of Adonis) goes back to when he first got his hands on the reins of the Labour party. If he supported brexit, I would disown him.

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

I will ignore the usual personal attack. Andrew Adonis is a capable man. I have highlighted his inappropriate use of his unelected position to undermine a democratic government trying to carry out a democratic decision. His senior civil servant in his last role in government took the same view, as seen by the communications published.

 

My opposition to the scumbag war criminal traitor Blair (who is a close personal friend of Adonis) goes back to when he first got his hands on the reins of the Labour party. If he supported brexit, I would disown him.

For goodness sake Han, that's not a personal attack nor was it intended to be one. It's merely an observation as to the direction of this debate and how we can improve the debate and make it more useful!

[i claudius]

And I don't care for the man either. But the fact he is a three-term Prime Minister means he must have got many things right.

What did he get right. As a Labour prime minister and a champion of the working man i find it hard to feel anything but disgust for him .Remember it was him that made sure that we as pensioners did not get our yearly pension rises while living here in Thailand by fighting against the rises right up to the European court of human rights. Scumbag is far to nice a word to describe him

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