May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, aright said:

Sgt Rock may only be wrong about the timing!

http://www.cityam.com/279951/deutsche-bank-posts-third-annual-loss-row-after-us-tax-hit

 

I am sure your crude naïve unexpert opinion on Deutche Bank's  woes  would be welcomed, not least by Deutche Bank.

 

3

"may only be wrong about the timing" - just like Project Fear then!

[Grouse]

16 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

That would be DExEU

Buzzfeed is an American media outfit. The report was produced by the elegantly named (and soon to be buried) DExEU)

 

The FT seems to agree with them

 

As I say, there is NO logical reason to leave the EU ( and certainly not the free market and customs union) except for the spite of Brexiters. Leave the status quo ante in tact at least until Dec 2021

[Grouse]

"As Nelson Mandela says, “Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world.” Education is the key to eliminating gender inequality, to reducing poverty, to creating a sustainable planet, to preventing needless deaths and illness, and to fostering peace.Apr 23, 2013"

 

 

[Grouse]

How is it that Germany exports 6 times as much to China than we do? How will Brexit help US not China?

[Khun Han]

6 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

"may only be wrong about the timing" - just like Project Fear then!

 

Project fear was wrong, plain and simple. It warned us that there would be a recession immediately after a vote for brexit, with half-a-million jobs lost. And Project Fear continued with it's recession nonsense for more than a year after the referendum. Employment is at 42 year record levels, and the economy continues to grow slowly-but-steadily despite the best efforts of Project Fear's agents. So now Project Fear has given up on it's daft forecasts because everybody knows about The Boy Who Cried Wolf. And now the message is: we're not going to do quite as well as the neighbours .

[simoh1490]

53 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Project fear was wrong, plain and simple. It warned us that there would be a recession immediately after a vote for brexit, with half-a-million jobs lost. And Project Fear continued with it's recession nonsense for more than a year after the referendum. Employment is at 42 year record levels, and the economy continues to grow slowly-but-steadily despite the best efforts of Project Fear's agents. So now Project Fear has given up on it's daft forecasts because everybody knows about The Boy Who Cried Wolf. And now the message is: we're not going to do quite as well as the neighbours .

You draw a timeline in the sand and assume everything to do with project fear estimates was wrong, plain and simple were your words. My words, however, were that project fear "may only be wrong about the timing" and since the clock hasn't stopped ticking, we don't yet know whether they will be wrong! What we do know is that some of the project fear estimates were correct and some were not, as we have discussed more times than I care to recall! We also know, using more recent data, as you point out, that forecasts suggest we're not going to do as well as.... under any Brexit scenario. In your world, that's son of project fear data, in everybody else's world that's the latest government estimate that should be heeded unless it is revised or superseded - your attitude on this aspect is that the car stopped for you when you went to cross the road the last time so there's no point in looking the next time.......a very dangerous attitude to take.

[rockingrobin]

3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Project fear was wrong, plain and simple. It warned us that there would be a recession immediately after a vote for brexit, with half-a-million jobs lost. And Project Fear continued with it's recession nonsense for more than a year after the referendum. Employment is at 42 year record levels, and the economy continues to grow slowly-but-steadily despite the best efforts of Project Fear's agents. So now Project Fear has given up on it's daft forecasts because everybody knows about The Boy Who Cried Wolf. And now the message is: we're not going to do quite as well as the neighbours .

I am aware of one prominent brexiteer that estimated the Dexeu forecast are optimistic. In one scenario the hit to GDP could be 10% in the first year alone, with the potential of 20% depending on how the dominoes fall.

Edited February 4, 2018 by rockingrobin

[simoh1490]

22 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

I am aware of one prominent brexiteer that estimated the Dexeu forecast are optimistic. In one scenario the hit to GDP could be 10% in the first year alone, with the potential of 20% depending on how the dominoes fall.

I'm afraid anything further that gets said on this point will be considered misleading propaganda at best and more likely, a misleading ploy intended to derail the democratic vote. And since there may well not be a second vote, the outcome is now mostly out of the hands of the general populous and all that's left is for some chest beating and tears, until the reality bites home, that's when the real recrimination will begin...we're in this mess because, "insert prefered answer here from list below":

 

Government handled it all wrong and got the negotiations into a mess;

Remainers screwed it all up on purpose, just to be spiteful;

EU used mystical powers to unduly influence the Brexit team;

The alignment of the planets was wrong for the task at hand and the Remainers knew that but scheduled the referendum despite that fact;

We were misled, project fear was right after all but they told us it was just fearmongering and we believed them;

Russian interference is the root cause;

 

 

 

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

You draw a timeline in the sand and assume everything to do with project fear estimates was wrong, plain and simple were your words. My words, however, were that project fear "may only be wrong about the timing" and since the clock hasn't stopped ticking, we don't yet know whether they will be wrong! What we do know is that some of the project fear estimates were correct and some were not, as we have discussed more times than I care to recall! We also know, using more recent data, as you point out, that forecasts suggest we're not going to do as well as.... under any Brexit scenario. In your world, that's son of project fear data, in everybody else's world that's the latest government estimate that should be heeded unless it is revised or superseded - your attitude on this aspect is that the car stopped for you when you went to cross the road the last time so there's no point in looking the next time.......a very dangerous attitude to take.

Brilliant!

[Grouse]

I know Brexiters don't care but this what the EU want from us

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-42922796

Its not much but they fear the same moves from the Komodo Cons as I do: all manner of make a fast buck. Slash corporation tax, forget environmental protections. Workers rights??

[ilostmypassword]

9 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Project fear was wrong, plain and simple. It warned us that there would be a recession immediately after a vote for brexit, with half-a-million jobs lost. And Project Fear continued with it's recession nonsense for more than a year after the referendum. Employment is at 42 year record levels, and the economy continues to grow slowly-but-steadily despite the best efforts of Project Fear's agents. So now Project Fear has given up on it's daft forecasts because everybody knows about The Boy Who Cried Wolf. And now the message is: we're not going to do quite as well as the neighbours .

And the Brexiters' promise of 350 million quid per week for the NHS? Oddly enough, as soon as the referendum was in, they virtually all disavowed it.

[Grouse]

I know Brexiters don't care but this what the EU want from us

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-42922796

Its not much but they fear the same moves from the Komodo Cons as I do: all manner of make a fast buck. Slash corporation tax, forget environmental protections. Workers rights??

[Grouse]

And this sums up the position nicely

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-42935058

 

Hammond is correct; and May knows he is!

 

Tilt game over

[oldhippy]

6 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And the Brexiters' promise of 350 million quid per week for the NHS? Oddly enough, as soon as the referendum was in, they virtually all disavowed it.

Let's give them the benefit of doubt.

Let's assume that the number 350 should not be taken literally.

 

So, what's the latest news? How much will it be?

 

Surely Boris had enough time by now to calculate an updated amount? Or maybe 2 amounts: one in case of a soft brexit, one in case of a hard brexit?

Now would that not be a fantastic marketing move for the borisists?

 

 

 

[simoh1490]

Boris might say, Hard Brexit, 350 million quid, Soft Brexit, 2s. 6d.

[oldhippy]

5 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Boris might say, Hard Brexit, 350 million quid, Soft Brexit, 2s. 6d.

Are there any official government statements?

I mean, if the tories would guarantee 100 or so, surely that would be the end of Corbyn? Has the question been asked in parliament? In the press?

(that is of course, assuming UK voters would believe the tories)

 

 

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Are there any official government statements?

I mean, if the tories would guarantee 100 or so, surely that would be the end of Corbyn? Has the question been asked in parliament? In the press?

(that is of course, assuming UK voters would believe the tories)

 

 

I haven't heard that there is an official position on the amount and I don't expect to either, it's not politican like to make big promises that must be kept.

 

But your point about seeing off Corbyn is a good one and that sort of commitment would do the trick I suspect, that might of course mean another 4 years of May which complicates the decision.

[Grouse]

12 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I haven't heard that there is an official position on the amount and I don't expect to either, it's not politican like to make big promises that must be kept.

 

But your point about seeing off Corbyn is a good one and that sort of commitment would do the trick I suspect, that might of course mean another 4 years of May which complicates the decision.

Staying in the EU would stuff Corbyn. He would never get away with his Trotskyist Tendencies, he would lose all Momentum

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Staying in the EU would stuff Corbyn. He would never get away with his Trotskyist Tendencies, he would lose all Momentum

Trotskyist tendencies?

Woow!

As an ex trotskyist (moreover: 4th International) I can tell you: you are giving the man too much credit.

 

 

 

 

[Grouse]

The French Navy are offering to carry our marines if we can't afford to retain our two assault ships( Albion? Dandy?). Friends indeed!

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/b75ed440-d6ba-11e7-8c9a-d9c0a5c8d5c9

[Srikcir]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The French Navy are offering to carry our marines if we can't afford to retain our two assault ships( Albion? Dandy?). Friends indeed!

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/b75ed440-d6ba-11e7-8c9a-d9c0a5c8d5c9

no formal offer has been made by France - and Britain has not indicated it would want such assistance https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/royal-marines-could-use-french-877968

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Trotskyist tendencies?

Woow!

As an ex trotskyist (moreover: 4th International) I can tell you: you are giving the man too much credit.

 

 

 

 

Well, you caused me to read up on Trotskyism ( including 4th International). You are correct, he's not a Trot he's a  T*at Sorry for the confusion!

Edited February 4, 2018 by Grouse

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

no formal offer has been made by France - and Britain has not indicated it would want such assistance https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/royal-marines-could-use-french-877968

Are you insinuating that the FT is telling porkies? Seems like a masterstroke from Macron to me! Trafalgar pay back time? Perfidious Albion? tee hee....

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Trotskyist tendencies?

Woow!

As an ex trotskyist (moreover: 4th International) I can tell you: you are giving the man too much credit.

Oh yeah? Which 4th International?

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Well, you caused me to read up on Trotskyism ( including 4th International). You are correct, he's not a Trot he's a  T*at Sorry for the confusion!

You got it right the first time, silly. Yes, he comes from the Orthodox Trotskyist tradition (please do ask me what the Orthodox signifies if you have trouble sleeping). Knowing this explains Corbyn's position on the EU. All the Hard Left groups recommended voting for Brexit. Corbyn's whole being is for Brexit and that is why with him as Dear Leader there ain't going to be a second third referendum. As for Corbyn not quite chiming with old revolutionary texts, well that is due to the Left's capitulation to populism as does the Hard Right. Sorry Comrade.

Edited February 4, 2018 by SheungWan

[aright]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Are you insinuating that the FT is telling porkies? Seems like a masterstroke from Macron to me! Trafalgar pay back time? Perfidious Albion? tee hee....

Joy unrequited!

Has your application to surrender British citizenship for a new all embracing EU Passport been approved yet? If not I am sure many of your friends on here would be happy prepared to give you an endorsement. There's no point staying where you aren't happy is there...well...unless you're on benefits. 

We wish you well in your chosen Valhalla and hope you can wean yourself off subversion which has always been poorly rewarded.

We wish you well in a Union where German voters are already asking whether they want to  remain in a project which involves the bailing out of less competitive countries like Italy, Greece, Portugal and Spain and to a lesser extent France.

We wish you well in embracing a  a single currency project where it would appear to be more appropriate to have "Premier League" and "Second Division" economic policies. People in Germany et al are very reluctant to pay for failed countries in the South...that wasn't the prospectus they were offered when they joined the monetary union.

We wish the EU well in addressing the issues of unemployment and poverty and hope you will eventually grasp that for many people life in the EU isn't that great.The EU has tough economic rules but gives you little palpable in return; unless you are Germany of course.

I feel myself banging on a bit now so won't go into the undemocratic architecture of the EU, their need for more bureaucracy, their inefficient policies , the federalisation effect etc.

I am sure you have solutions to all these problems but we have yet to hear them.

When the passport comes through we wish you well in your new home!

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

Joy unrequited!

Has your application to surrender British citizenship for a new all embracing EU Passport been approved yet? If not I am sure many of your friends on here would be happy prepared to give you an endorsement. There's no point staying where you aren't happy is there...well...unless you're on benefits. 

We wish you well in your chosen Valhalla and hope you can wean yourself off subversion which has always been poorly rewarded.

We wish you well in a Union where German voters are already asking whether they want to  remain in a project which involves the bailing out of less competitive countries like Italy, Greece, Portugal and Spain and to a lesser extent France.

We wish you well in embracing a  a single currency project where it would appear to be more appropriate to have "Premier League" and "Second Division" economic policies. People in Germany et al are very reluctant to pay for failed countries in the South...that wasn't the prospectus they were offered when they joined the monetary union.

We wish the EU well in addressing the issues of unemployment and poverty and hope you will eventually grasp that for many people life in the EU isn't that great.The EU has tough economic rules but gives you little palpable in return; unless you are Germany of course.

I feel myself banging on a bit now so won't go into the undemocratic architecture of the EU, their need for more bureaucracy, their inefficient policies , the federalisation effect etc.

I am sure you have solutions to all these problems but we have yet to hear them.

When the passport comes through we wish you well in your new home!

Clearly a well thought out response:

 

"We wish you well in a Union where German voters are already asking whether they want to  remain in a project which involves the bailing out of less competitive countries like Italy, Greece, Portugal and Spain and to a lesser extent France."

" People in Germany et al are very reluctant to pay for failed countries in the South...that wasn't the prospectus they were offered when they joined the monetary union."

 

On the other hand:

 

"The EU has tough economic rules but gives you little palpable in return; unless you are Germany of course."

Doublethink much?

 

"We wish you well in embracing a  a single currency project where it would appear to be more appropriate to have "Premier League" and "Second Division" economic policies."

I wasn't aware that the UK is a member of the Eurozone community. Is the source of your information top secret or can you share it with the rest of us?

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

Clearly a well thought out response:

 

"We wish you well in a Union where German voters are already asking whether they want to  remain in a project which involves the bailing out of less competitive countries like Italy, Greece, Portugal and Spain and to a lesser extent France."

" People in Germany et al are very reluctant to pay for failed countries in the South...that wasn't the prospectus they were offered when they joined the monetary union."

 

On the other hand:

 

"The EU has tough economic rules but gives you little palpable in return; unless you are Germany of course."

Doublethink much?

 

"We wish you well in embracing a  a single currency project where it would appear to be more appropriate to have "Premier League" and "Second Division" economic policies."

I wasn't aware that the UK is a member of the Eurozone community. Is the source of your information top secret or can you share it with the rest of us?

 

I think he was referring to Grouse's next choice of homeland. That seemed to be the gist of the post.

[aright]

2 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I think he was referring to Grouse's next choice of homeland. That seemed to be the gist of the post.

Indeed I was.

[SheungWan]

22 minutes ago, aright said:

Joy unrequited!

Has your application to surrender British citizenship for a new all embracing EU Passport been approved yet? If not I am sure many of your friends on here would be happy prepared to give you an endorsement. There's no point staying where you aren't happy is there...well...unless you're on benefits. 

We wish you well in your chosen Valhalla and hope you can wean yourself off subversion which has always been poorly rewarded.

We wish you well in a Union where German voters are already asking whether they want to  remain in a project which involves the bailing out of less competitive countries like Italy, Greece, Portugal and Spain and to a lesser extent France.

We wish you well in embracing a  a single currency project where it would appear to be more appropriate to have "Premier League" and "Second Division" economic policies. People in Germany et al are very reluctant to pay for failed countries in the South...that wasn't the prospectus they were offered when they joined the monetary union.

We wish the EU well in addressing the issues of unemployment and poverty and hope you will eventually grasp that for many people life in the EU isn't that great.The EU has tough economic rules but gives you little palpable in return; unless you are Germany of course.

I feel myself banging on a bit now so won't go into the undemocratic architecture of the EU, their need for more bureaucracy, their inefficient policies , the federalisation effect etc.

I am sure you have solutions to all these problems but we have yet to hear them.

When the passport comes through we wish you well in your new home!

'I feel myself banging on a bit now'. .