Legal team hopeful in Koh Tao murder appeal

[Reigntax]

Just makes you wonder how many innocent people are currently behind bars after being stitched up by the failed Thai justice system.

[catinthehat]

6 hours ago, Kerryd said:

I'm sure more than a few people realize the implications of a successful appeal. 

Please bear in mind that when a certain person of position stated that the police should move quickly to make an arrest(s). That same person would seriously lose face if the appeal is ruled in favor of the defendants.

 

Just sayin'.

 

[elgordo38]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

prosecution, which has delayed the hearing of the appeal nine times since it was lodged in May this year.

 

Like a cat they have used up their nine lives. I find it funny that the courts have let them pull this delay tactic 9 times. The defense is fighting an uphill political battle on this one. There is just to much saving face here for the government to give these boys a pass. 

[elgordo38]

10 minutes ago, Reigntax said:

Just makes you wonder how many innocent people are currently behind bars after being stitched up by the failed Thai justice system.

I personally know of one. Yes it makes you wonder. I am certainly glad the sperm spigot that dropped me dropped me on the other side of the world. This side is to much like the new series West World. 

[stephenterry]

30 minutes ago, greenchair said:

I would like to make a comment but, any comment that is not agreeable with "the innocent group " results in the thread being closed with a positive statement for the b2. 

Or the post being deleted .

Or acceptable name calling by one group, that's not acceptable when the other gives it  back.

So I'll leave it with, "good luck with the fantasies " they are guilty and not getting out any time soon. Justice has won is this case.  

It's true the court found them guilty, and they are unlikely to get out anytime soon - more probably a few more years yet. However, this thread is about the Appeal, and that the defence has submitted a 198 page document detailing 21 aspects as to why the court's verdict was unsound - some aspects of the prosecution's case that contravened legalities, and which should not have been accepted by the court if adhering to the true letter of the law (if included).

 

Whether or not the B2 are guilty or innocent, it is clearly not a just verdict, and would never be if dependent on the prosecution's evidence that was never verified, substantiated or validated  - merely RTP statements to that effect.

 

So, regrettably, non-justice won this case, in the strict legal sense.  

 

 

[freedom4life]

Hopeful?...what a total game play, a sham...protect the mafia at all costs..what karma one has to answer to...my goodenss.

[nudgerman]

My heart breaks for these boys and their Parents ....from what we are allowed to know there is not any substantial damning evidence against them.

Their internment and death sentence makes me sick to my stomach.

This is a many headed monster with the need for real justice to be pursued ...... 

I do not believe they are culpable, and that in truth cannot be proved either way

 

Set them free is the decent and right thing to do.

 

[smedly]

2 hours ago, greenchair said:

I would like to make a comment but, any comment that is not agreeable with "the innocent group " results in the thread being closed with a positive statement for the b2. 

Or the post being deleted .

Or acceptable name calling by one group, that's not acceptable when the other gives it  back.

So I'll leave it with, "good luck with the fantasies " they are guilty and not getting out any time soon. Justice has won is this case.  

The reason your posts (and a few others) are deleted and threads are closed is because you keep posting deflections and lies and utter nonsense, it seems for now you have eventually got the message

[greenchair]

And then there's the current mantra. 

It doesn't matter if they are guilty or not. There may have been legal technicalities that should have the case thrown out. 

Well no mate! !! It does matter. 

 I do believe the judge acknowledged there were inadequacies, but the weight of their own incriminating  court testimony was just too much to ignore when balancing the scales.

The appeal is no different from the first court defense. Human rights wah wah. The running man wah wah. The village mafia did it wah wah. The gaet analysis by andy says they didn't do it. All while avoiding anything that shows they did do it.Give me a break.  

[Arandora]

9 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Give me a break.  

Don't you mean "Give them a break"! You are not under threat of death where an absence of proof of incriminating evidence has been conveniently ignored as has the pursuit of alternative suspects.  

[sweatalot]

"-legal-team-hopeful-in-koh-tao-murder-appeal "

 

I'm not so sure.

Given what has become public about the case they should be free already.

 

What is even more disgusting that now they are only talking about the very likely innocent men.

 

Nobody seems to be caring about the real murder(ers) and check (really check!) the highly suspicious one(s)

[sweatalot]

1 hour ago, nudgerman said:

My heart breaks for these boys and their Parents ....from what we are allowed to know there is not any substantial damning evidence against them.

Their internment and death sentence makes me sick to my stomach.

This is a many headed monster with the need for real justice to be pursued ...... 

I do not believe they are culpable, and that in truth cannot be proved either way

 

Set them free is the decent and right thing to do.

 

"... ....from what we are allowed to know there is not any substantial damning evidence against them"

you forgot to mention:

... while there are well known  highly suspect people who are not even taken into consideration

[teacherpaul]

6 hours ago, kiwikeith said:

 

It was quite obvious after Hanna's sister spoke out that their family was not happy, the other Prat who went public had reasons I suppose that may have been influenced by Thai contribution.

If both families were treated as she says then why speak out like a big dummy.

Putting it to bed and getting on with life full well knowing that two innocent boys might hang would not be my cup of tea.

I don't think I've met one person who does not think the B2 are innocent.

 

It also shows that Britain's diplomatic relations with Thailand are more important than the B2.

 

I can't understand why the Burmese government has kept so quiet about this. If they had any guts, they should organise a jail break. Get them out quick and bring them home.

[teacherpaul]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

The reason your posts (and a few others) are deleted and threads are closed is because you keep posting deflections and lies and utter nonsense, it seems for now you have eventually got the message

Don't feed the troll. Some people will say anything to get attention. Just ignore it.

[evadgib]

29 minutes ago, teacherpaul said:

I can't understand why the Burmese government has kept so quiet about this. If they had any guts, they should organise a jail break. Get them out quick and bring them home.

 

Diplomacy is hardly a spectator sport although many seem disgruntled at not being CC'ed simply because they have a FB orTwitter (etc) account.

 

The world has come a long way in recent years...

 

[DiscoDan]

8 hours ago, kiwikeith said:

 

It was quite obvious after Hanna's sister spoke out that their family was not happy, the other Prat who went public had reasons I suppose that may have been influenced by Thai contribution.

If both families were treated as she says then why speak out like a big dummy.

Putting it to bed and getting on with life full well knowing that two innocent boys might hang would not be my cup of tea.

I don't think I've met one person who does not think the B2 are innocent.

 

It also shows that Britain's diplomatic relations with Thailand are more important than the B2.

 

Laura Witheridge never said they were innocent,

Funny how she is back in th UK presenting an award for UK police in Hannah's name.

This breaks the myth that the UK police were involved in the conspiracy.

 

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/sister_of_murdered_norfolk_student_hannah_witheridge_honoured_by_award_in_her_memory_1_4726612?utm_source=Facebook

 

 

 

[DiscoDan]

For all those getting their hopes up about the DNA evidence should read this article.

 

The defence claimed no chain of custody docs and notes from scientists. The forensic witness states the forensics dept had a policy of not giving out this information, the defense should have asked for a court order (like they did with retesting the dna evidence) which they did not do, they also failed to challenge the dna match.

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/life/2015/12/25/1451106691/

 

"According to the court, the test was so well documented and photographed that a forgery could not possibly have occurred"

 

"Nakhon cited the example of the lack of chain of custody that would have verified DNA tests on Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo; he said the prosecutor told him the documents exist, but simply chose not to show them to him"

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2015/07/23/1437661326/

 

"She also did not supply the full documentation of the results she gathered in her forensic testing, citing a policy that bars scientists from providing investigative officers with detailed graphs of a person’s genetic makeup"

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35170419

 

"I have asked one of the defence lawyers about their bafflingly non-adversarial tactics. He did not offer a convincing  explanation"

 

 

 

[gchurch259]

5th time I believe I gave replied to this post; Take these young men to the myanmar border and turn them loose.

 

Then get off your "Donkey" and find out who on that island killed these young tourist !!

[Jonmarleesco]

15 hours ago, z42 said:

Sad as at is, this defense team is pissing into the wind if they think the SAME court who stitched their defendents up so disgustingly at the first trial are going to overturn it either now or anytime in the future.

This is an appalling miscarriage of justice, those orchestrating it I hope are outed and severely punished in time.

 

Also interesting to note the running man footage is being talked about. I wonder where that spineless @$$#ole with the dicky arm is now. 

 

What a disgusting farce ?

The same court? Even in LoS, I think it safe to say the appeal court is separate from the lower court.

[smedly]

43 minutes ago, gchurch259 said:

5th time I believe I gave replied to this post; Take these young men to the myanmar border and turn them loose.

 

Then get off your "Donkey" and find out who on that island killed these young tourist !!

This was no ordinary murder, if a profiler was to look at this crime scene they could very easily paint a picture that points far far away from B2

 

Most murders follow the same general set of rules, they either involve "Money"  "Sex"  "Revenge"

 

The crime scene usually tells what category fits and it could be more than one

 

"Sex" well we know of the alleged rape and the position that the victims body was in when discovered, a sexual motive alone does not fit the profile of the violent brutal attack on Hannah's body.

 

I have said this before and I will say it again, I don't think David was present when this assault on Hannah started but came upon it by accident and then got involved.

 

"Revenge" perfect fit for the violent brutal attack but does not fit the profile of B2....not even close

However it would fit the profile of someone who thinks they are powerful and were publically humiliated in a bar earlier that night were Hannah may have rudely rejected sexual advances from this person who is used to getting his own way which caused anger and loss of face, I would describe this person as a violent sexual preditor who has been involved in behavior like this before and has gained some misplaced rank and reputation amongst their thug friends praying on young innocent farang girls, that is the profile I see here.

[greenchair]

2 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

For all those getting their hopes up about the DNA evidence should read this article.

 

The defence claimed no chain of custody docs and notes from scientists. The forensic witness states the forensics dept had a policy of not giving out this information, the defense should have asked for a court order (like they did with retesting the dna evidence) which they did not do, they also failed to challenge the dna match.

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/life/2015/12/25/1451106691/

 

"According to the court, the test was so well documented and photographed that a forgery could not possibly have occurred"

 

"Nakhon cited the example of the lack of chain of custody that would have verified DNA tests on Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo; he said the prosecutor told him the documents exist, but simply chose not to show them to him"

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2015/07/23/1437661326/

 

"She also did not supply the full documentation of the results she gathered in her forensic testing, citing a policy that bars scientists from providing investigative officers with detailed graphs of a person’s genetic makeup"

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35170419

 

"I have asked one of the defence lawyers about their bafflingly non-adversarial tactics. He did not offer a convincing  explanation"

 

 

 

 

Very interesting articles, I can't imagine the appeal is going to be anything more than a regurgitation of the defense in the first court.

ie; the mafia did it, and we know that because, well we just know it. 

[performance]

To many words. The truth is easy innocent. The ones that should be in the cage are the RTP and there plastic gangster mate that raped the girl. Just scum the weakest and lowest of all.

[IslandLover]

5 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

Laura Witheridge never said they were innocent,

Funny how she is back in th UK presenting an award for UK police in Hannah's name.

This breaks the myth that the UK police were involved in the conspiracy.

 

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/sister_of_murdered_norfolk_student_hannah_witheridge_honoured_by_award_in_her_memory_1_4726612?utm_source=Facebook

 

 

 

 

Laura Witheridge presented an award to the local family liaison officers who helped the Witheridge family during their time of extreme grief.  This award was not presented to the U.K. police as a whole!  The work of the family liaison officers is quite different from that of investigating police officers.  The award was well deserved.

 

This does not alter the fact that the Witheridge family is not convinced of the B2's guilt.  You can ask me how I know that all you want, but I am not going to tell you on an open forum.

[DiscoDan]

Watch the video in the link below  this is them after they arrived in Samui, so would of confessed a few hours earlier. Do you think they look a pitiful sight ? Do they just look like they have just taken a beating ?

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-murders-two-burmese-4378288

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/09/thailand-backpacker-murders-suspects-confession-retract

 

"They’re pleading with the Burmese government to look into the case and find out the truth. They were a really pitiful sight. Their bodies had all sorts of bruises.” 

"They told me that they were on the beach that night drinking and singing songs. They said they didn’t do it, that the Thai police beat them until they confessed,"

 

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, IslandLover said:

 

Laura Witheridge presented an award to the local family liaison officers who helped the Witheridge family during their time of extreme grief.  This award was not presented to the U.K. police as a whole!  The work of the family liaison officers is quite different from that of investigating police officers.  The award was well deserved.

 

This does not alter the fact that the Witheridge family is not convinced of the B2's guilt.  You can ask me how I know that all you want, but I am not going to tell you on an open forum.

 

Not the ole, I have evidence to support my comment but I'm not going to tell you game. 

Why raise it, if you can't talk about it. I don't know why people keep going on about Laura opinion as if it is a significant factor towards their innocence. The courts found them guilty by a great deal of evidences. Unless you have something to show, the only thing the Witheridge family ever said about those 2 is " the evidence against them is compelling and overwhelming ". " they both have a lot to answer for " or something to that effect. 

Is there going to be anything new in the appeal? ??highly unlikely. Therefore I can't see them winning. They might get the death sentence overturned. It's a pity hannah doesn't have that option. That poor girl. it must have been absolutely horrific for her. So bright and full of life. 

 

[jing jing]

9 hours ago, greenchair said:

 

Not the ole, I have evidence to support my comment but I'm not going to tell you game. 

Why raise it, if you can't talk about it. I don't know why people keep going on about Laura opinion as if it is a significant factor towards their innocence. The courts found them guilty by a great deal of evidences. Unless you have something to show, the only thing the Witheridge family ever said about those 2 is " the evidence against them is compelling and overwhelming ". " they both have a lot to answer for " or something to that effect. 

Is there going to be anything new in the appeal? ??highly unlikely. Therefore I can't see them winning. They might get the death sentence overturned. It's a pity hannah doesn't have that option. That poor girl. it must have been absolutely horrific for her. So bright and full of life. 

 

At one time, as I recall, you were an ardent proponent of the B2's innocence.  Now you are convinced of their guilt.  Can you please share with us what incriminating evidence was presented  which you found so convincing, so indisputable, that you changed your mind and now have no doubt they are guilty of this crime?

[stephenterry]

19 hours ago, greenchair said:

And then there's the current mantra. 

It doesn't matter if they are guilty or not. There may have been legal technicalities that should have the case thrown out. 

Well no mate! !! It does matter. 

 I do believe the judge acknowledged there were inadequacies, but the weight of their own incriminating  court testimony was just too much to ignore when balancing the scales.

The appeal is no different from the first court defense. Human rights wah wah. The running man wah wah. The village mafia did it wah wah. The gaet analysis by andy says they didn't do it. All while avoiding anything that shows they did do it.Give me a break.  

 

My quote:  Whether or not the B2 are guilty or innocent, it is clearly not a just verdict, and would never be if dependent on the prosecution's evidence that was never verified, substantiated or validated  - merely RTP statements to that effect.

 

Of course it MATTERS, but we're not living in a biblical age - society has progressed  - some would say too far - nevertheless this case conviction is far from being one of incorrect legal technicalities, but ALL of it based on hearsay, and the interpretation of that.

 

This is what the appeal is all about. Had there been ANY forensic evidence produced in court by way of original samples, it could have been acceptable - but there wasn't any original samples. Repeat, there wasn't any original samples produced in court, most likely because they didn't exist. 

 

And as a matter of record, the appeal will be heard by the same district 8 legal team as the previous court. That is contrary to any measure of independence - in other words a damning indictment of the justice system.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[greenchair]

14 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

 

My quote:  Whether or not the B2 are guilty or innocent, it is clearly not a just verdict, and would never be if dependent on the prosecution's evidence that was never verified, substantiated or validated  - merely RTP statements to that effect.

 

Of course it MATTERS, but we're not living in a biblical age - society has progressed  - some would say too far - nevertheless this case conviction is far from being one of incorrect legal technicalities, but ALL of it based on hearsay, and the interpretation of that.

 

This is what the appeal is all about. Had there been ANY forensic evidence produced in court by way of original samples, it could have been acceptable - but there wasn't any original samples. Repeat, there wasn't any original samples produced in court, most likely because they didn't exist. 

 

And as a matter of record, the appeal will be heard by the same district 8 legal team as the previous court. That is contrary to any measure of independence - in other words a damning indictment of the justice system.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bless terry, but I was commenting on the people involved , including the defense lawyers , andy, that Marshall guy and the Australian lawyer that all have said guilt or not guilt is irrelevant. Yes, times have moved on and 20 years ago dna was not even accepted in a court . It is significant that this is the first case to use dna in Thailand. 20 years ago, being identified very near to the crime , at the time of the crime. Having no alibi.going back to the crime. leaving possessions at the crime . Having objects belonging to the victim. Concealing those objects. Confessing. Would have been ample to convict. I watched the video of Wei Phyo confessing, he looked relaxed, the investigator was asking questions and wp was answering by himself with no coercion. There is no indication he is speaking from a script. The question and answers look perfectly random. The dna is a smokescreen for the defense. Nothing more. 

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, jing jing said:

At one time, as I recall, you were an ardent proponent of the B2's innocence.  Now you are convinced of their guilt.  Can you please share with us what incriminating evidence was presented  which you found so convincing, so indisputable, that you changed your mind and now have no doubt they are guilty of this crime?

 

It was on the last day of trial. A message from andies fb popped up on my fb. For more than a year his team kept hidden that wp and Muang Muang went back to the beach at 5am in the morning to look for wp shoes that he left behind. He was not all tucked up asleep as we were told. For months we all fought the police had planted the phone. on that court day, we found out wp agreed his friend had smashed and  hidden the phone . we also heard wp first told his friend he found the phone in a bar. Then he said he found it in the morning on the beach while looking for his shoes. 

For these 5 reasons 

1.he went back to the beach. 

2. He had the victims phone. 

3.his friend hid that phone. 

4.he LIED

5.the wine bottle that they drank from was in a photo right next to David as he was being carried out of the sea.

5. The defense told the public the b2 played guitar, took a swim and went to sleep. Only to wake up oblivious to what had happened late the next morning. So in essence, they lied by ommission. 

I really wanted them to be innocent.

There was too much to defend in the end. Even the judge said that. 

[DiscoDan]

22 minutes ago, greenchair said:

 

It was on the last day of trial. A message from andies fb popped up on my fb. For more than a year his team kept hidden that wp and Muang Muang went back to the beach at 5am in the morning to look for wp shoes that he left behind. He was not all tucked up asleep as we were told. For months we all fought the police had planted the phone. on that court day, we found out wp agreed his friend had smashed and  hidden the phone . we also heard wp first told his friend he found the phone in a bar. Then he said he found it in the morning on the beach while looking for his shoes. 

For these 5 reasons 

1.he went back to the beach. 

2. He had the victims phone. 

3.his friend hid that phone. 

4.he LIED

5.the wine bottle that they drank from was in a photo right next to David as he was being carried out of the sea.

5. The defense told the public the b2 played guitar, took a swim and went to sleep. Only to wake up oblivious to what had happened late the next morning. So in essence, they lied by ommission. 

I really wanted them to be innocent.

There was too much to defend in the end. Even the judge said that. 

Also the murder weapon the hoe was kept only a few metres from where they were sitting that night.