240 people drown in two migrant tragedies off Libyan coast

[webfact]

240 people drown in two migrant tragedies off Libyan coast

Seamus Kearney

 

 

LAMPEDUSA: -- Two migrant tragedies off the coast of Libya have claimed the lives of at least 240 people.

 

The UN says many women and children are among the victims. Some survivors were brought ashore at Lampedusa.

 

A UN refugee agency spokeswoman, Carlotta Sami, said: “They were shocked, they were traumatised, because they spent many hours in the water trying to swim towards safety. They were found in the water, not on a boat.”

 

The victims, believed to be mostly from West Africa, were travelling in rubber dinghies.

 

Leonard Doyle from the International Organisation for Migration told reporters: “In a way, it’s probably due to the success of the anti-smuggling efforts of the European navies. They’ve been capturing and destroying a lot of the fishing boats used to help migrants get to another place.

 

“So in the absence of those boats, and with the migrants determined to leave, and the smugglers interested in making money off them, they’ve been putting them in completely unsafe rubber dinghies.”

 

Elsewhere more than 760 people were rescued in seven different rescue operations in the Mediterranean on Thursday. 

 

The total number of migrants known to have drowned so far this year in the region now stands at more than 4,200, more than 500 more than for the whole of last year.

 

Experts are worried there is a new rush to make the dangerous crossings, with reports the Libyan coastguard will soon take over rescues and will take survivors back to Libya.

 

 

-- © Copyright Euronews 2016-11-04

[Honthy]

These people needs money for covering their travel costs, I could see with my own eyes, most of the refugees have mobile, etc....

I saw two signs in Africa and Middle East, saying Come to Europe and the other said, No, we are full. Sorry, but I cannot recall the original text, they are just their message.

Would be good to know, who finance them and WHY ....

[SgtRock]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

The victims, believed to be mostly from West Africa,

 

Those damned Syrians need to stop wasting money on forgeries of West African Passports 

Edited November 4, 2016 by SgtRock

[ElPatron]

49 minutes ago, Honthy said:

These people needs money for covering their travel costs, I could see with my own eyes, most of the refugees have mobile, etc....

I saw two signs in Africa and Middle East, saying Come to Europe and the other said, No, we are full. Sorry, but I cannot recall the original text, they are just their message.

Would be good to know, who finance them and WHY ....

Yeah they are millionairs and just like to take their chance to die at sea.....

[Rimmer]

A troll post and replies have been removed

[DM07]

3 minutes ago, i claudius said:

Now before i was so rudely interrupted , I do realize that people who cannot make a go of it in their own land want to come to the west ,as they hear such glowing tales of all the benifits that they will get , but soon govts will have to stop it , and its not going to be nice , its all very well , being soft about it ,but if the west wants to survive , its going to come , in the next 20 years i can see disaster looming ,its not going to be nice and i despair for my descendants .

"...and i despair for my descendants ."

I despair for them, too!

Believe you me!

[ElPatron]

Now before I was rudely interrupted by some racist comment :
the migrants have no money, they are risking their life, something most of the TV ranting about it will probably never understand : living in precarity without any money and willing to provide a better life that they will not have in their torn own country. Do you seriously think they are willing to risk the life of their kids to die at sea if they had other options? Most of them want to be integrated in the country more than the ones living in Thiland and who cannot read and write thai since they re here...and they are the ones complaining about integration...

The loss of 250 lives at sea is a tragedy, everybody thinking it is a game and they deserve it or that it is a "good thing" because it means 250 people less coming, is just ignorance from old retired people living their dream in Pattaya without being able to read any road sign

[SgtRock]

11 minutes ago, i claudius said:

Now before i was so rudely interrupted , I do realize that people who cannot make a go of it in their own land want to come to the west ,as they hear such glowing tales of all the benifits that they will get , but soon govts will have to stop it , and its not going to be nice , its all very well , being soft about it ,but if the west wants to survive , its going to come , in the next 20 years i can see disaster looming ,its not going to be nice and i despair for my descendants .

 

It looks as if the AfD  have already picked up that baton and are off and running with it

 

Quote

The anti-immigrant Alternative for Germany party (AfD) has pledged to cut all financial aid for refugees and to change the law to stop family members from joining them.

A party policy document recommends holding those of “uncertain identity” in offshore camps away from mainland Europe until their bona fides can be established. The camps, the leadership propose, should be in north Africa, Turkey, western Syria and Libya and be overseen by the EU.

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/german-far-right-party-outlines-plan-to-solve-migrant-crisis-3pv232j9m

 

Personally, I cannot see what is far right about applying basic common sense.

[Rimmer]

Multiple flames and replies to a removed post have now been removed. 

 

Suggest refreshing your browser before you reply to such a post as it had already been removed by me

[ElPatron]

7 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

It looks as if the AfD  have already picked up that baton and are off and running with it

 

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/german-far-right-party-outlines-plan-to-solve-migrant-crisis-3pv232j9m

 

Personally, I cannot see what is far right about applying basic common sense.

As this party is a neo nazi party which call the migrants worm and parasite, sell nazi propaganda and call gay people degenerate, I am not surprised at all it is far right...

[ddavidovsky]

This is not abating. There is now a real sense that the scroungers (to use i claudius' term, which is accurate, and perhaps politer than the technical term 'parasites') are descending en masse and threatening the civilised world.

 

Where self-discipline doesn't work, discipline is necessary. That's part of civilised behaviour.  Time now for tough action - for their own good.

[ElPatron]

12 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

This is not abating. There is now a real sense that the scroungers (to use i claudius' term, which is accurate, and perhaps politer than the technical term 'parasites') are descending en masse and threatening the civilised world.

 

Where self-discipline doesn't work, discipline is necessary. That's part of civilised behaviour.  Time now for tough action - for their own good.

Yeah let's drown them at sea, easy and it will show we are civilised! Civilised behaviour? do you really read the comments here? clearly the ones who pretend to be cilivised are the savages.

As stated before fleeing a torn country, living in a tent, risking your life and the life of your family, is a sign they are well-off and just want to "profit" ...

 

[SgtRock]

2 minutes ago, ElPatron said:

Yeah let's drown them at sea, easy and it will show we are civilised! Civilised behaviour? do you really read the comments here? clearly the ones who pretend to be cilivised are the savages.

As stated before fleeing a torn country, living in a tent, risking your life and the life of your family, is a sign they are well-off and just want to "profit" ...

 

 

5 hours ago, webfact said:

The victims, believed to be mostly from West Africa, were travelling in rubber dinghies.

 

You want to tell us all what war they are fleeing ?

 

Just asking.

[ddavidovsky]

2 minutes ago, ElPatron said:

Yeah let's drown them at sea, easy and it will show we are civilised! Civilised behaviour? do you really read the comments here? clearly the ones who pretend to be cilivised are the savages.

As stated before fleeing a torn country, living in a tent, risking your life and the life of your family, is a sign they are well-off and just want to "profit" ...

 

 

So your solution is to let them all come in, anyone who wants to come in? If that message gets out, you can imagine what will happen.

 

No one is suggesting letting them drown at sea. They can be rescued, but they have to be sent back or it will only encourage more.

Most importantly they have to be prevented from coming. This needs to be put on a defensive war basis. It's an invasion and could get much worse.

 

Fences and patrols are a start but they need to get serious and coordinated about it. And they need dissuasive information campaigns in the countries of origin - I'm not aware that anything at all has been done on that score.

 

 

 

 

[Morch]

50 minutes ago, ElPatron said:

Now before I was rudely interrupted by some racist comment :
the migrants have no money, they are risking their life, something most of the TV ranting about it will probably never understand : living in precarity without any money and willing to provide a better life that they will not have in their torn own country. Do you seriously think they are willing to risk the life of their kids to die at sea if they had other options? Most of them want to be integrated in the country more than the ones living in Thiland and who cannot read and write thai since they re here...and they are the ones complaining about integration...

The loss of 250 lives at sea is a tragedy, everybody thinking it is a game and they deserve it or that it is a "good thing" because it means 250 people less coming, is just ignorance from old retired people living their dream in Pattaya without being able to read any road sign

 

Some migrants obviously had some money to begin with, in order to pay traffickers and smugglers. Assuming they spent all of their money with non saved, would need to be supported by more than claims.

 

Not all come from "torn" countries, at least not worse degree than others. And not all simply look for the nearest safe haven, many aim for particular destinations in Europe. 

 

Alleging they have "no other options" is pure nonsense at best. There are always other options, perhaps less alluring, though.

 

As for the "most of them want to be integrated in the country" bit, doubt you or most posters pushing this line got any clear facts to support it. Nada. Comparisons to Western foreigners living in Thailand legally are bogus.

 

The loss of life is a tragedy, no argument there. Posters not partaking in a faux guilt trip is understandable, though.

 

 

[jak2002003]

'Some women and children were on the boats'......    so what?  So were men.  Why is it worse a woman or child dies than a man?  And why even say such a thing?  Because its to give the sympathy vote... or no, poor children and pretty delicate women.   And it does not say how many women and children... you notice.... maybe 2 women and one teenager and 200 men. 

 

Some people here seem to want open borders and allow the rest of the word to come to Europe and the UK for a better life.  Do they think that will really work?  Being strong and adopting a hard line approach is needed to send a clear message that they can not go there.  That will save the attempts to get there and save thousands of lives because no more people will be drowning at sea trying to reach those shores.

 

 

[ElPatron]

14 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

'Some women and children were on the boats'......    so what?  So were men.  Why is it worse a woman or child dies than a man?  And why even say such a thing?  Because its to give the sympathy vote... or no, poor children and pretty delicate women.   And it does not say how many women and children... you notice.... maybe 2 women and one teenager and 200 men. 

 

Some people here seem to want open borders and allow the rest of the word to come to Europe and the UK for a better life.  Do they think that will really work?  Being strong and adopting a hard line approach is needed to send a clear message that they can not go there.  That will save the attempts to get there and save thousands of lives because no more people will be drowning at sea trying to reach those shores.

 

 

Then maybe UK, USA and Europe should stop bombing their home countries, trying to put puppet government there because it suits their economical agenda. Lybia was a disaster, Qhaddafi warned europe about the migrants if he was removed from the government...Syria is a disaster because USA and Europe want to put a leader who will suit their views of the pipelines projects in the region while helping "moderate" rebels which plead now allegiance to Al Qaeda..... 

If you don't want people to come to your country, stop bombing and messing with their

[ElPatron]

34 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

 

You want to tell us all what war they are fleeing ?

 

Just asking.

So go look at a map of which countries are in western africa : Mali -> civil war, niger delata region -> ravaged by conflicts since 1950,niger, benin, all peacfule countries without civil war, abuses, ethnicity conflicts...a peacefule part of the world for sure.

I know most of the people do not give a sh.t at Africa continent even if most of the ressources used by western countries on daily basis are stolen from them by corporation and corrupted puppet governments..but maybe it is time to go have a look if you want to understand geopolitics

[ddavidovsky]

6 minutes ago, ElPatron said:

Then maybe UK, USA and Europe should stop bombing their home countries, trying to put puppet government there because it suits their economical agenda. Lybia was a disaster, Qhaddafi warned europe about the migrants if he was removed from the government...Syria is a disaster because USA and Europe want to put a leader who will suit their views of the pipelines projects in the region while helping "moderate" rebels which plead now allegiance to Al Qaeda..... 

If you don't want people to come to your country, stop bombing and messing with their

 

These people were from West Africa.

[SgtRock]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

And oh yes....welcome back. Again.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, ElPatron said:

Now before I was rudely interrupted by some racist comment :
the migrants have no money, they are risking their life, something most of the TV ranting about it will probably never understand : living in precarity without any money and willing to provide a better life that they will not have in their torn own country. Do you seriously think they are willing to risk the life of their kids to die at sea if they had other options? Most of them want to be integrated in the country more than the ones living in Thiland and who cannot read and write thai since they re here...and they are the ones complaining about integration...

The loss of 250 lives at sea is a tragedy, everybody thinking it is a game and they deserve it or that it is a "good thing" because it means 250 people less coming, is just ignorance from old retired people living their dream in Pattaya without being able to read any road sign

Of course they have money. They wouldn't get as far as Libya without it.

Having destroyed their own countries they then think they can just go to Europe and make lotsacash. They should be fixing their own countries instead of hoping for western largesse.

 

As for the drownings, as long as they believe they will get to Europe they will still come.

 

I didn't know that the Libyans were going to take over, but if they do and start returning the refugees to Libya that will stop it. However, if they are bribed enough, they may just let the illegal economic migrants go on their way.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, ElPatron said:

you were the one launching the thailand integration ...

If you re willing to think UK, Europe and USA has nothing to do with the current migration flux you have serious issues.. Thanks for the welcome back....

 

No, you brought it here and I replied to your nonsense, which you now deny.

Yeah, like I said, not everyone is on board the faux guilt trip.

Do try to keep on topic, which is non of the above.

[smudger1951]

I resent the comparison of any retired person in Pattaya etc. We come here with visas and sufficient finance. We will never have a thai passport or nationality and never receive welfare benefits or free housing such as these invading spongers. 

[seedy]

Off Topic / Bickering posts - and Quoted replies - Removed

 

Keep the Personal Attacks off this forum. reply to the Post - do not attack the Poster. Disagree - state your case in a polite and Respectful manner

[SgtRock]

1 hour ago, ElPatron said:

So go look at a map of which countries are in western africa : Mali -> civil war, niger delata region -> ravaged by conflicts since 1950,niger, benin, all peacfule countries without civil war, abuses, ethnicity conflicts...a peacefule part of the world for sure.

I know most of the people do not give a sh.t at Africa continent even if most of the ressources used by western countries on daily basis are stolen from them by corporation and corrupted puppet governments..but maybe it is time to go have a look if you want to understand geopolitics

 

I have no need to look at a map to see what Countries are in Western Africa.

 

Perhaps it is time you understood the difference between war and internal conflict.

[roobaa01]

no remorse whatsoever,  implement laws like oz  banning people for life when try to enter illegally by boat, then it will stop. people die also in wars.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[ElPatron]

15 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

no remorse whatsoever,  implement laws like oz  banning people for life when try to enter illegally by boat, then it will stop. people die also in wars.

 

wbr

roobaa01

I bet the aboriginals wished they thought of this law before 

[ddavidovsky]

26 minutes ago, ElPatron said:

And you the similarities of the results for the civilians

 

It would be easier for just to admit you were mistaken in blaming migration on external interference. In any case, arguing from emotion on this issue is what is making the situation worse. They have already got the idea that they are welcome, and they are now are all sitting in their villages thinking Europe is the promised land and rustling up the money to get there.

 

The cause is economic deprivation caused by a country's inability to organise itself. They've always had that, but now they have mobility, and Google to show them where Europe is.

 

I'm sick of hearing the mess that Africa is in. The place is rich in resources. Those countries should invite back their former colonists, having utterly failed to go it alone. Indeed, a case can be made that that is the only system that is going to work for certain countries until they reach a certain stage of social development.

[ddavidovsky]

3 minutes ago, ElPatron said:

What a joke. You should read the disgusting comments which were written here, and the racist comments you can still read just a bit above here. When someone say good riddance, mention nazi party to make their point, I feel much better on my side of the fence.

I maintain my points : people are not willing to risk the life of their whole family on a small boat just to "parasite" another country.

About africa, the colonisation is still here, you should have a look at which companies exploit the natural ressources : Eiffage, Bollore, Total, Shell, Areva.... The famous "FranceAfrique" the puppet governments actively directed by France, UK, China,...etc... There is nearly no country in Africa where the government is not corrupted by those corporations. Lybia for exemple, guess who took 30% of the oil exploitation right after Ghaddafi was killed : Total. 

Anyway I won't change the mentality of nostalgic colonialists who think colonies were the "good old time" and don't know anything about Africa and the way their ressources are stolen or their profit not redistributed to local populations....Ignorance is a bliss I guess

 

 

Of course there is economic exploitation - that's business - but what they get from foreigners is management, which produces the crucial thing: social development. Working for foreign paymasters is galling, but at least they are getting development, discipline, and democracy. Those are needed for a country to run properly.  Apparently the way society is organised in Africa, with its tribal groupings and inability to subscribe to a social contract, is incompatible with that.

 

So what actually is your solution for the migration problem, apart from 'let them all in'?

[ElPatron]

11 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

Of course there is economic exploitation - that's business - but what they get from foreigners is management, which produces the crucial thing: social development. Working for foreign paymasters is galling, but at least they are getting development, discipline, and democracy. Those are needed for a country to run properly.  Apparently the way society is organised in Africa, with its tribal groupings and inability to subscribe to a social contract, is incompatible with that.

 

So what actually is your solution for the migration problem, apart from 'let them all in'?

Seriously, are you really from this world?

Social development in africa? redistribution of the foreign owned companies to the local? Democracy in Africa?You 've never been to an African country obviously.

One part of the solution is to make sure there is less wars in their countries, don't you think? Maybe stop meddling with government, fomenting and funding opposition groups just because the governments in place are not the way the USA and Europe like?

Irak? disaster, Lybia? disaster, Syria? disaster...

For african countries, if the benefits of the exploitation of the rich soil was invested in the countries they take it from instead of giving most of it to the share holders in US and Europe it will help the african feel good at home and give them hope..

Of course that would mean less profit for the westerners, less puppet governments, less wars by proxies...less weapon selling business...but all what I say is probably a figment of my imagination and in fact the companies in Africa are all for the local population...nope

Edited November 4, 2016 by ElPatron