Brexit hits speed bump as court rules lawmakers must get say

[rockingrobin]

25 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

British Prime Minister David Cameron said May 22 it would be decades before Turkey could possibly join the EU, saying that it might happen in the year 3000 on current progress.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/britain-says-turkey-decades-from-joining-the-eu-.aspx?PageID=238&NID=99514&NewsCatID=351

and reported in FT

 

10 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Look at post 319. The whole point is he lied like many politicians do.

On the issue of Turkey he didnt lie

The point is Leave made an issue of Turkeys EU membership whilst they themselves did not object to Turkey becoming a member

[Laughing Gravy]

Listen for yourself from the BBC. So going back to my original post regarding The Times article today.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[Laughing Gravy]

So Turkey will not join the EU anytime soon or in the year 3000?

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Actually I am not a huge trump fan. I believe in some of his principles but I don’t agree the way he delivers them or himself. The election has once again has shown like with the UK referendum, that Polls lie and I am convinced that the establishment fix polls in the hope people follow them like sheep. Clearly they do not. I also think that the Bookmakers and media do similar rigging and bias.  Once again the BBC has shamed themselves and as I have mentioned before they should be taken over and restructured. I feel sorry that people in the UK have no opt out and have to pay for a service that is meant to be independent and not biased. It is different with SKY News, people pay for that (crap) voluntarily.

As for Trump It shows that the populist class have had enough of immigration and want themselves to come first. I like the fact he said he will take troops out of foreign lands. I hope he means it but certainly is less a war monger than HC or Obama. He is a safer bet than Clinton on starting world war 3. It is about time that the ruling elites started listening to the people. I was only joking that this is the end of the EU. I don’t think Trump is the catalyst. Brexit has done that. Certainly Trump will be a better friend to the UK than HC.

It will be very interesting times but regardless of what he does or doesn’t do the victory is for the people who don’t want forced integration, don’t want to be overrun by Muslims and are fed up of being called a racist, when you don’t agree with the politicians who want and demand it. I certainly think that the USA is not the last country to have such a shock. France and even Germany next.

 

It turns out that the polls did not lie; the people polled lied. Another similarity with the run up to Brexit.

 

I've had a bit of an insight. In both the U.K. And USA, it seems the better educated, the higher demographic tiers, the ones doing reasonably well or better were more inclined to go with the status quo. The less well educated, the lower demographic tiers, the ones feeling left behind, the less well off, the losers were rebellious. They wanted change! Not too concerned about the full ramifications but change anyway. Now.

 

I think where both countries have gone wrong is to allow inequality to get out of control. Look at the Gini coefficients....

 

We should have taken more care to ensure the malcontents, the losers remained a minority.

 

Now, change will be delivered. There is already a huge increase in Chauvinism. The demagogues have successfully won over the masses. Will the losers become winners? Somehow, I doubt it. We will muddle through but we will have a nastier more dangerous world I fear. ?

[Laughing Gravy]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It turns out that the polls did not lie; the people polled lied. Another similarity with the run up to Brexit.

What other opinion polls were there?

 

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The demagogues have successfully won over the masses.

If you mean the USA yes, certainly not with the referendum (Brexit)

[Laughing Gravy]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I think where both countries have gone wrong is to allow inequality to get out of control. Look at the Gini coefficients

Couldn't agree more but that for the UK, has a lot to do with the EU and its immigration policy.

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

What other opinion polls were there?

 

If you mean the USA yes, certainly not with the referendum (Brexit)

 

God, it is so difficult to have sensible discussion with you on anything.

 

BBC World were investigating why the polls got it wrong again. They found people who admitted they lied to pollsters either out of embarrassment or just for mischief. I think that people liking to pollsters is indeed the most likely reason for the polls being wrong. No doubt you will cling to your conspiracy theories.

 

As for demagoguery, yes, the masses lapped it up both in the UK and in the USA. It's the foreigners, the EU, the Chinese, the Mexicans! That's why we're poor. It's not that we're thick. It's nothing to do with automation! We're taking our country back! Chauvinism is indeed the word.

[Laughing Gravy]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

God, it is so difficult to have sensible discussion with you on anything.

 

BBC World were investigating why the polls got it wrong again. They found people who admitted they lied to pollsters either out of embarrassment or just for mischief. I think that people liking to pollsters is indeed the most likely reason for the polls being wrong. No doubt you will cling to your conspiracy theories.

 

As for demagoguery, yes, the masses lapped it up both in the UK and in the USA. It's the foreigners, the EU, the Chinese, the Mexicans! That's why we're poor. It's not that we're thick. It's nothing to do with automation! We're taking our country back! Chauvinism is indeed the word.

I was asking a very sensible question and in a polite manner. If that's how you feel lets not discuss anything.

[Grouse]

20 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Couldn't agree more but that for the UK, has a lot to do with the EU and its immigration policy.

 

Utter BS

 

Think about some of the reasons behind inequality. Such as

 

Education

Automation

Globalisation

Pusuit of shareholder value

Imbalance of capital and labour

Government fiscal policy

 

Look, society's losers exceed the comfortably off. So you won. You think you're going to do better now? Good luck with that....

 

Stop ALL immigration. Is that going to make you successful?

Edited November 10, 2016 by Grouse

[rockingrobin]

At some point in time the UK and EU will reach an agreement and this no doubt form a treaty. The question is who will have judicial oversight if or when a dispute over its interpretation occurs.Since the treaty involves EU will it fall with the ECJ or International Court

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

 

The quoted text says that Turkey wants to join the EU and it looks like they will be accepted. David Cameron as listed below clearly stated in his campaign that would never happen until the year 3000.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/22/turkey-eu-referendum-foreign-minister-mevlut-cavusoglu-david-cameron

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1324218/david-cameron-lying-about-turkey-joining-eu-as-talks-will-take-place-just-days-after-referendum/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/22/david-cameron-turkey-joining-eu-is-not-remotely-on-the-cards/

 

David Cameron was a bit optimistic, Turkey will never join the EU.

You cannot possibly say he lied unless they actually join the EU before the year 3000.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

 

On the issue of Turkey he didnt lie

The point is Leave made an issue of Turkeys EU membership whilst they themselves did not object to Turkey becoming a member

Exactly, Nigel Farage in particular scared people into believing that 60 million Turks were about to invade the UK.

 

People should remember that since the coup, Turkey has voiced an intention to reinstate the death penalty, something that would rule them out of EU membership forever.

[Laughing Gravy]

13 minutes ago, sandyf said:

David Cameron was a bit optimistic, Turkey will never join the EU.

You cannot possibly say he lied unless they actually join the EU before the year 3000.

Well I will be looking out for that to remind you. It might be sooner than you think.

[Laughing Gravy]

7 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Exactly, Nigel Farage in particular scared people into believing that 60 million Turks were about to invade the UK.

Can you kindly provide the evidence for this please?

[sandyf]

13 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Can you kindly provide the evidence for this please?

One of the many statements made by NF. This was aired on LBC and note the reference to the end of this year. Apologies for the discrepancy, I am sure he said 60 million at some point but here it was 79 million.

"They are demanding, and they may get, visa-free access for 79million people by the end of this year.

"Mrs Merkel, who's the real boss of Europe, has said she wants to fast-track them as members of the European Union."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/676548/nigel-farage-david-cameron-eu-turkey

[RuamRudy]

56 minutes ago, sandyf said:

One of the many statements made by NF. This was aired on LBC and note the reference to the end of this year. Apologies for the discrepancy, I am sure he said 60 million at some point but here it was 79 million.

"They are demanding, and they may get, visa-free access for 79million people by the end of this year.

"Mrs Merkel, who's the real boss of Europe, has said she wants to fast-track them as members of the European Union."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/676548/nigel-farage-david-cameron-eu-turkey

 

The whole Brexit campaign was based upon cynical lies designed to play into the fears of the population at large - it is tragic that there are some on here who continue to peddle the same lies ad nauseum. Blind refusal to accept the truth is a pathetic way to live your life. 

[nontabury]

 

 

32 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

The whole Brexit campaign was based upon cynical lies designed to play into the fears of the population at large - it is tragic that there are some on here who continue to peddle the same lies ad nauseum. Blind refusal to accept the truth is a pathetic way to live your life. 

 

   Yet you refuse to accept the democratic decision of the Electorate. Is that not pathetic?

[RuamRudy]

 
 
 
   Yet you refuse to accept the democratic decision of the Electorate. Is that not pathetic?

In what way have I not accepted it? I have no option but to accept it, but I reserve the right to point out the fact that the case for Brexit was built on lies told by professional liars.

I will also take every opportunity to point out that if you were to hold a rally of all the Brexit supporters, three quarters of the country would stay at home. You do not represent the majority of the people.

[nontabury]

9 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

In what way have I not accepted it? I have no option but to accept it, but I reserve the right to point out the fact that the case for Brexit was built on lies told by professional liars.

I will also take every opportunity to point out that if you were to hold a rally of all the Brexit supporters, three quarters of the country would stay at home. You do not represent the majority of the people.

 

 

 

      Well as a supporter of Nicola Sturgeon and the Scottish National party, it would seem you also want to cherry pick democracy.

  

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2016 by nontabury

[Grouse]

37 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

 

 

   Yet you refuse to accept the democratic decision of the Electorate. Is that not pathetic?

 

I think everyone accepts the result. That does not mean I agree the decision. I accept the decision. Too many dissatisfied, underachieving, losers compared to the relatively comfortably off. Its obvious now. We should have maintained a more balanced society. I WANT the UK to do well but I doubt people will see real benefits to Brexit in my lifetime.

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

 

      Well as a supporter of Nicola Sturgeon and the Scottish National party, it would seem you also want to cherry pick democracy.

  

 

 

 

 

And again. Accept but NOT necessarily agree! BTW, markets seem to have shrugged off the Trump debacle whereas Brexit is causing REAL damage. UK PLC devalued by 600B USD?

[Guest]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

One of the many statements made by NF. This was aired on LBC and note the reference to the end of this year. Apologies for the discrepancy, I am sure he said 60 million at some point but here it was 79 million.

"They are demanding, and they may get, visa-free access for 79million people by the end of this year.

"Mrs Merkel, who's the real boss of Europe, has said she wants to fast-track them as members of the European Union."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/676548/nigel-farage-david-cameron-eu-turkey

Do you understand that there is a huge difference between having a visa free travel to a EU and being part of the EU?

 

I can travel visa free to 175 countries. This doesn't mean that I could start working in those countries just like that. It just means that I don't have to go through the process of getting a visa before entering to the country.

 

It's realistic that EU tries to use visa free travel as a carrot when it wants something from Turkey. It has nothing to do with Turkey being vetted to become an EU member. It will not happen, not at least in the near future. 

 

Don't always believe what you read from trash papers. Those are notoriously bad and just want to sell 'clicks' for money. 

 

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, oilinki said:

Do you understand that there is a huge difference between having a visa free travel to a EU and being part of the EU?

 

I can travel visa free to 175 countries. This doesn't mean that I could start working in those countries just like that. It just means that I don't have to go through the process of getting a visa before entering to the country.

 

It's realistic that EU tries to use visa free travel as a carrot when it wants something from Turkey. It has nothing to do with Turkey being vetted to become an EU member. It will not happen, not at least in the near future. 

 

Don't always believe what you read from trash papers. Those are notoriously bad and just want to sell 'clicks' for money. 

 

This was my statement, show me where I referred to the EU or being part of the EU.

 

"Exactly, Nigel Farage in particular scared people into believing that 60 million Turks were about to invade the UK."

 

Do you really believe that if Nigel Farage says that 79 million may get visa free access by the end of the year, nobody is going to take it on board. Scaremongering at its worst.

You obviously did not bother with the link, you can see him saying it, but I do accept the fact it may be a body double.

 

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

 

      Well as a supporter of Nicola Sturgeon and the Scottish National party, it would seem you also want to cherry pick democracy.

  

 

 

 

On the 15th September 2014 David Cameron went down on bended knees to the people of Scotland and he said the following in his speech. It would appear that is ok for the government to renege on referendum issues as long as it does not affect England.

 

"And this is a vital point: Scotland is not an observer in the affairs of this country.

Scotland is shaping and changing the United Kingdom for the better – more so today than at any point in the last three hundred years… 
…and will continue to help shape the constitution of our country."

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/09/15/full-text-camerons-last-speech-in-scotland-before-referendum/

[rockingrobin]

Gov gound for appeal now online

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/grounds-of-appeal-to-the-supreme-court-of-the-secretary-of-state-for-exiting-the-european-union

[Ace of Pop]

Does anyone remember the Days when if one lost one took it on the chin and behaved like man ?. That should be enough to bring the cry babies out with reasons I'm nasty even asking such a Question


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[nontabury]

10 hours ago, sandyf said:

On the 15th September 2014 David Cameron went down on bended knees to the people of Scotland and he said the following in his speech. It would appear that is ok for the government to renege on referendum issues as long as it does not affect England.

 

"And this is a vital point: Scotland is not an observer in the affairs of this country.

Scotland is shaping and changing the United Kingdom for the better – more so today than at any point in the last three hundred years… 
…and will continue to help shape the constitution of our country."

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/09/15/full-text-camerons-last-speech-in-scotland-before-referendum/

 

 I'm sorry,but where did he go down on his bended knees? 

what did come over it that speech,very early on, he stated that it was a one off referendum ( everyone knew this,the same as in the Britex referendum), the result which ever way it went would be binding.

  

In the 2014 Scottish referendum, out of a small number of voters, 3.6 million, those that voted NO exceeded those that voted yes by .4 million. So a clear majority.

 

 In the 2016 Britex vote , out of the total votes cast 33.5 million,  the majority for leave was 1.3 Million. So again a clear majority.  

 

 In the USA election, out of 120 million voters, the majority did not vote for the winner, in fact Hillary Clinton received 200,000 more votes than Donald Trump. So NOT a clear majority.

 

Yet Nicola Sturgeon does not respect or accept the democratic vote,ither in the Scottish or the E.U election,where a sizable majority voted against what she wanted,

Yet she respects and accepts the vote in America,which showed more people voting for the loosing candidate.

 

 This is typical of N.S and the rest of the Remoaners. If the vote does't go their way protest and declare it undemocratic. Maybe  they should follow Hillary Clinton example, who even though receiving most votes,puts that aside for the benefit of her country, and accepted the result.

Edited November 11, 2016 by nontabury

[Laughing Gravy]

17 hours ago, sandyf said:

One of the many statements made by NF. This was aired on LBC and note the reference to the end of this year. Apologies for the discrepancy, I am sure he said 60 million at some point but here it was 79 million.

"They are demanding, and they may get, visa-free access for 79million people by the end of this year.

"Mrs Merkel, who's the real boss of Europe, has said she wants to fast-track them as members of the European Union."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/676548/nigel-farage-david-cameron-eu-turkey

Sandyf the statement was that he scared 60 million into believing that the Turks would come and invade. That is what I want the evidence for. The people were scared into voting.

[sandyf]

13 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Sandyf the statement was that he scared 60 million into believing that the Turks would come and invade. That is what I want the evidence for. The people were scared into voting.

Read it again.

"Exactly, Nigel Farage in particular scared people into believing that 60 million Turks were about to invade the UK."

 

And I repeat what I said in a previous post.

" Do you really believe that if Nigel Farage says that 79 million may get visa free access by the end of the year, nobody is going to take it on board. Scaremongering at its worst. "

[Laughing Gravy]

5 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Read it again.

"Exactly, Nigel Farage in particular scared people into believing that 60 million Turks were about to invade the UK."

 

And I repeat what I said in a previous post.

" Do you really believe that if Nigel Farage says that 79 million may get visa free access by the end of the year, nobody is going to take it on board. Scaremongering at its worst. "

You read it again. Where is the evidence 60 million people were scared into voting. There isn't any. Scaremongering, nothing like George Osborne who was no 2 in the government then. I can't say he scared all the people into voting remain. That is ridiculous. Farage  (sadly in my opinion) wasn't even in the Official Leave campaigns group.

 

"George Osborne says he will have to slash public spending and increase taxes in an emergency Budget to tackle a £30bn "black hole" if the UK votes to leave the European Union.

The chancellor said this could include raising income and inheritance taxes and cutting the NHS budget."

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/15/eu-referendum-osborne-warns-of-brexit-budget-tax-rises-as-boris/

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36534192