The anti-Trump resistance takes shape: 'Government's supposed to fear us'

[Skywalker69]

1 hour ago, kevkev1888 said:

Don't worry many people, especially of Trumps age, need reading glasses.

 

Trump realises the Islamist threat, even if you don't. Europe is waking up to it too, we can only hope it is not too late.

 

 

So why didn´t he ban the country´s that some of the 9/11 bombers came from?

[Rigby40]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

This is VERY worrying 

 

It explains many things

 

How can this be stopped before something really terrible happens?

 

Can the men in the white coats just take him away quietly?

 

I have no time for Pense but he's an intellectual power house in comparison 

Ah, I really miss those days of his campaign when he'd read those stories.

Is there a video translated in German or Swedish yet? There should be.

[Grouse]

46 minutes ago, beechguy said:

And anyone who doesn't understand the analogy, as it relates to Middle East/Arabs, etc. is rather ignorant. Try going and living there, and being involved for 15 years.

I'm sorry, you've lost me

 

I was commenting on Trump's reading issues

 

What analogy?

[beechguy]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I'm sorry, you've lost me

 

I was commenting on Trump's reading issues

 

What analogy?

My apology, I thought you were questioning the content.

[beechguy]

9 minutes ago, Skywalker69 said:

So why didn´t he ban the country´s that some of the 9/11 bombers came from?

My guess is, for the most part, they have a functioning government. The countries on the list, have problems in that regard, Yemen has been falling apart for years now, Can't remember when Somalia and Sudan, etc. had solid government, etc. 

[Ulysses G.]

15 minutes ago, beechguy said:

My guess is, for the most part, they have a functioning government. The countries on the list, have problems in that regard, Yemen has been falling apart for years now, Can't remember when Somalia and Sudan, etc. had solid government, etc. 

Correct. That is the reason that the Obama administration chose those 7 countries as being on particular concern. The chaos and/or anti-American governments made it very difficult to vet refugees efficiently.

[amykat]

1 hour ago, Rigby40 said:

That's all fine and dandy. He was and should be ready to pull funds IF they didn't do anything about it, which I already said in another post.

But this was happening all over campuses last year and a lot of them DIDN'T do anything to stop the protesters from threatening speakers and disrupting speeches. Depaul Univesity as one of many examples.

Good on Trump for putting his foot down. If schools like Depaul want to keep this kind of behavior up they better start looking for funding elsewhere.

But experts say Trump's threat is an empty one, even in the face of Wednesday’s violence.

“There is currently no federal law that would allow the federal government to deny funding to an institution of higher education because they prohibited someone from speaking on campus,” said Terry Hartle, senior vice president of the Washington, D.C-based American Council on Education (ACE), which represents college presidents.

 

The government can withdraw federal funding, he said, but it's typically because of fraud or research misconduct. Even then, Hartle added, most research dollars are awarded — and withdrawn — through peer review. “So the ability of a president to sort of retaliate against a particular institution is pretty limited.”

The question arises from time to time, he said — during the Vietnam War, House lawmakers considered denying federal aid to students who participated in campus protests. But Hartle said there’s “no authority to do that under current law — and I think developing a way to do that could be very problematic.”

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/02/02/trumps-threat-pull-federal-funding-uc-berkeley-empty-one-experts-say/97401818/

 

 

[Skywalker69]

1 hour ago, beechguy said:

My guess is, for the most part, they have a functioning government. The countries on the list, have problems in that regard, Yemen has been falling apart for years now, Can't remember when Somalia and Sudan, etc. had solid government, etc. 

So a functioning government doesn´t harbor terrorists? 15 of the terrorist came from Saudi Arabia, not  included in the ban.

2 of terrorists came from United Arab Emirates, not included in the ban.

1 terrorist came from Egypt, not included in the ban

Finally 1 terrorist came from Lebanon, not included in the ban.

 

I see a pattern, Trump do business in the abowe country´s but not in the banned once.

 

 

[Rigby40]

35 minutes ago, amykat said:

But experts say Trump's threat is an empty one, even in the face of Wednesday’s violence.

“There is currently no federal law that would allow the federal government to deny funding to an institution of higher education because they prohibited someone from speaking on campus,” said Terry Hartle, senior vice president of the Washington, D.C-based American Council on Education (ACE), which represents college presidents.

 

The government can withdraw federal funding, he said, but it's typically because of fraud or research misconduct. Even then, Hartle added, most research dollars are awarded — and withdrawn — through peer review. “So the ability of a president to sort of retaliate against a particular institution is pretty limited.”

The question arises from time to time, he said — during the Vietnam War, House lawmakers considered denying federal aid to students who participated in campus protests. But Hartle said there’s “no authority to do that under current law — and I think developing a way to do that could be very problematic.”

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/02/02/trumps-threat-pull-federal-funding-uc-berkeley-empty-one-experts-say/97401818/

 

 

I don't know how many times we've been lied to by 'experts' about Trump or conservatives in general over the last year. And I'm not going to start trusting people / media outlets now who have been proven liars to give me the facts. 

 

But for arguments sake let's say that is the case, private donations to these schools are going down. After the events at the University of Missouri, alumni donations went down in the tens of million of dollars, enrollment went down and they had to close down some dorms. That's not the only school to have lost funding or enrollment numbers because of these antics. 

So as long as university continue on this trajectory, they will continue to lose money and Trump doesn't have to do a single thing about it himself. 

[beechguy]

1 hour ago, Skywalker69 said:

So a functioning government doesn´t harbor terrorists? 15 of the terrorist came from Saudi Arabia, not  included in the ban.

2 of terrorists came from United Arab Emirates, not included in the ban.

1 terrorist came from Egypt, not included in the ban

Finally 1 terrorist came from Lebanon, not included in the ban.

 

I see a pattern, Trump do business in the abowe country´s but not in the banned once.

 

 

I didn't say it was perfect, but the odds are much greater for functioning government to screen and retain documentation on it's citizens. I saw too many house maids, laborers, etc. depart Gulf Countries, and return a few weeks later with new passports, visas, reflecting new identities, It's just a fact of life, Saudi Arabia is much more aggressive now, than in 2001 when the terrorists attacked on 9/11. Sudan, Somalia, have been more or less been outlaw states for decades, Yemen has been falling apart since I went to the region in 1998, and Iran a constant negative influence.

 

I see a pattern, your ignorance of the region, and why they wanted to restructure the vetting process. Again, for you and others, why not pack a bag and go live in the area for a while, you'll have a much better understanding.

 

 

[Skywalker69]

25 minutes ago, beechguy said:

I didn't say it was perfect, but the odds are much greater for functioning government to screen and retain documentation on it's citizens. I saw too many house maids, laborers, etc. depart Gulf Countries, and return a few weeks later with new passports, visas, reflecting new identities, It's just a fact of life, Saudi Arabia is much more aggressive now, than in 2001 when the terrorists attacked on 9/11. Sudan, Somalia, have been more or less been outlaw states for decades, Yemen has been falling apart since I went to the region in 1998, and Iran a constant negative influence.

 

I see a pattern, your ignorance of the region, and why they wanted to restructure the vetting process. Again, for you and others, why not pack a bag and go live in the area for a while, you'll have a much better understanding.

 

 

Strange that you seems to know where I have not been. America is unsafer now than before. 

[beechguy]

20 minutes ago, Skywalker69 said:

Strange that you seems to know where I have not been. America is unsafer now than before. 

If you lived in that area any length of time, and still have the same opinion, then I will be even more amazed.

For the record, I wouldn't have cared if Saudi Arabia was put on the list, along with a few other countries. With the exception of a few areas, I consider Africa a failed continent, never mind some failed states. There were no shortage of terrorist training camps in those areas, and Pakistan some other countries should also be have been considered. The misinformed will consider my comments racist, bigoted, etc. but that would be untrue. There are some great people from Africa and the Middle East, and they deserve some help, it just does not necessarily need to be in the U.S.

[Ulysses G.]

2 hours ago, Skywalker69 said:

So a functioning government doesn´t harbor terrorists? 

 

 

That is not the point. Refugees from a US friendly country with a functional government and police force are much easier to vet effectively, than a county in chaos. That is why the Obama administration was particularly concerned about the 7 countries in the executive order.

[onthesoi]

Ahem!

[Rigby40]

2 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

Ahem!

Now do the same for Sweden and Germany and include sexual assaults / rape.

"It may be an unwise man who doesn't learn from his own mistakes, but it's an absolute idiot that doesn't learn from other people's."

[Rigby40]

17 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

Ahem!

And btw, it's not a 'muslim ban'. You've been lied to once again.

[beechguy]

1 hour ago, onthesoi said:

Ahem!

Again, the ignorant and uninformed wouldn't know or bother to ask, "where did those terrorist learn their skills, and who paid for it?"

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, Rigby40 said:

Now do the same for Sweden and Germany and include sexual assaults / rape.

"It may be an unwise man who doesn't learn from his own mistakes, but it's an absolute idiot that doesn't learn from other people's."

More people in the US will be killed at the hands of children than terrorists. Should we make abortion compulsory to make America safe again? 

[AlexRich]

3 minutes ago, beechguy said:

Again, the ignorant and uninformed wouldn't know or bother to ask, "where did those terrorist learn their skills, and who paid for it?"

The CIA paid ... helped Bin Laden and the Mujahadeed in Afghanistan when they were fighting Trump's 'new best friend forever' Russia! 

[beechguy]

1 minute ago, AlexRich said:

More people in the US will be killed at the hands of children than terrorists. Should we make abortion compulsory to make America safe again? 

It's not just the death, but the erosion on society, even their own.

I would guess you lock your door at night don't you? Do you really think that is going to do anything meaningful against a serious intruder?

[beechguy]

Just now, AlexRich said:

The CIA paid ... helped Bin Laden and the Mujahadeed in Afghanistan when they were fighting Trump's 'new best friend forever' Russia! 

Yes, and the Iranians have spent a lot of money, on a war, people say Obama prevented.

[AlexRich]

4 minutes ago, beechguy said:

It's not just the death, but the erosion on society, even their own.

I would guess you lock your door at night don't you? Do you really think that is going to do anything meaningful against a serious intruder?

 

The point is simply this ... the order is of no practical use, you have no history of terrorist atrocities in the US from those countries, much of your problem is home grown. It's the best recruitment tool for the people who are behind islamic terrorism. 

[Ulysses G.]

30 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

The point is simply this ... the order is of no practical use, you have no history of terrorist atrocities in the US from those countries

 

The point is to try to prevent terrorist attacks from those countries. It is absurd to fixate on statistics from the past. Islamic terrorism is spreading. These countries are hotbeds of Islamic terrorism and it is only a matter of time until a refugee from these countries commits a violent act unless they are carefully vetted.

[beechguy]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

 

The point is simply this ... the order is of no practical use, you have no history of terrorist atrocities in the US from those countries, much of your problem is home grown. It's the best recruitment tool for the people who are behind islamic terrorism. 

No, it's pretty easy to find connections worth noting, the Underwear Bomber was Nigerian, but suspected of being trained in Yemen. There have been U.S. Operations out of Djibouti for years, because of training camps and activities in Sudan, Somalia, etc. As I said, living in the region is a good eye opener, not just sitting and reading the crap on CNN or MSNBC.

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, beechguy said:

Again, the ignorant and uninformed wouldn't know or bother to ask, "where did those terrorist learn their skills, and who paid for it?"

A lot of them learned these skills on the playing fields of Iraq where they battled the Americans.

[craigt3365]

14 hours ago, kevkev1888 said:

Boo hoo. Totally standard procedure for family members to receive protection.

So what? 

It's called nepotism.  And shouldn't be allowed.  Trump's pushing the boundaries there.  Put together with all the other dodgy stuff he's doing, it doesn't sit well with most people. 

[RuamRudy]

9 hours ago, Rigby40 said:

That's all fine and dandy. He was and should be ready to pull funds IF they didn't do anything about it, which I already said in another post.

But this was happening all over campuses last year and a lot of them DIDN'T do anything to stop the protesters from threatening speakers and disrupting speeches. Depaul Univesity as one of many examples.

Good on Trump for putting his foot down. If schools like Depaul want to keep this kind of behavior up they better start looking for funding elsewhere.

 

Regardless of which side of the fence you are sitting on, and regardless of which side one, the narrative is playing out exactly as it is meant to. If Hillary won, the republicans, with the support of democrat sponsored agitators,  would be behaving in exactly the same manner. Now you are seeing the blues behaving badly, egged on by red agents provocateur.

 

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum." Noam Chomsky

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, beechguy said:

No, it's pretty easy to find connections worth noting, the Underwear Bomber was Nigerian, but suspected of being trained in Yemen. There have been U.S. Operations out of Djibouti for years, because of training camps and activities in Sudan, Somalia, etc. As I said, living in the region is a good eye opener, not just sitting and reading the crap on CNN or MSNBC.

 

Why selectively stop making those connections at a point that suits your point of view? The smart thing would to go back further than the 80's to understand why the fundamentalism and anti-western sentiment is rife throughout Africa and the middle east. Of course, for westerners in general and Americans in particular, that would require a lot of humility, acceptance of guilt and huge financial reparations...

[kevkev1888]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

It's called nepotism.  And shouldn't be allowed.  Trump's pushing the boundaries there.  Put together with all the other dodgy stuff he's doing, it doesn't sit well with most people. 

Nepotism?

It is a family business, being run by his sons.

That there is a security detail cost is neither here nor there. Costs would be the same if he was going on a golfing holiday.

[craigt3365]

18 minutes ago, kevkev1888 said:

Nepotism?

It is a family business, being run by his sons.

That there is a security detail cost is neither here nor there. Costs would be the same if he was going on a golfing holiday.

It was a business trip.  And the Trump family is profiting off this, which isn't right.  From the article:

Quote

The Uruguayan trip shows how the government is unavoidably entangled with the Trump company as a result of the president’s refusal to divest his ownership stake. In this case, government agencies are forced to pay to support business operations that ultimately help to enrich the president himself. Though the Trumps have pledged a division of business and government, they will nevertheless depend on the publicly funded protection granted to the first family as they travel the globe promoting their brand.

This is what people are complaining about.  And for good reasons.

Also from the article.  Good points:

Quote

“This is an example of the blurring of the line between the personal interest in the family business and the government,” said Kathleen Clark, an expert on government ethics and law professor at Washington University in St. Louis.

 

Also called nepotism.