The anti-Trump resistance takes shape: 'Government's supposed to fear us'

[ilostmypassword]

6 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Finally good analysis on Trump Presidency by a liberal with a brain(counter intuitive)

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/04/can-president-trump-turn-the-ship-around/521619/?google_editors_picks=true

 

David Frum a liberal?

He was a speechwriter for George Bush then was employed by the conservative AEI. He was fired only because he questioned Republican economics after history proved their predictions to be repeatedly wrong.

[iReason]

Lawsuit claiming Trump incited violence advances

 

"President Donald Trump has lost a bid to dismiss a lawsuit alleging he sparked violence against protesters at one of his campaign rallies in March 2016."

 

"In a 22-page ruling released Friday, U.S. District Court Judge David Hale said three anti-Trump protesters had established enough evidence to proceed with their case. The suit seeks unspecified monetary damages over claims they were shoved and punched by Trump supporters after the Republican called to “get ‘em out of here” at his Louisville, Kentucky, rally."

 

"Trump’s “get ‘em out of here” comment, Hale ruled, was “stated in the imperative; it was an order, an instruction, a command.”

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/trump-incitement-violence-lawsuit-236802

 

This is great news.

Expose every one of these fascists and hold them accountable.

[craigt3365]

8 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Finally good analysis on Trump Presidency by a liberal with a brain(counter intuitive)

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/04/can-president-trump-turn-the-ship-around/521619/?google_editors_picks=true

 

Love this comment.  Amazing that some actually support this.  Democracy at it's worst.  Thanks for sharing.  Proves what many of us think about him.

 

Quote

He’s at least as capable of destroying the independence and integrity of the U.S. intelligence community as that community’s revelations are to destroy him.

...

His White House lacks policy expertise, to put it mildly. His communications operation has been thrust onto the seemingly permanent defensive. His standing in the polls has fallen to the high 30s: Watergate-levels.

....

Trump’s goal is not to be a “successful president” in the usual sense of that term. It’s obvious by now that he doesn’t have much of a policy agenda.

 

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

David Frum a liberal?

He was a speechwriter for George Bush then was employed by the conservative AEI. He was fired only because he questioned Republican economics after history proved their predictions to be repeatedly wrong.

I see this as an anti-Trump article.  Read it.  Lots of bad stuff about Trump in it.  Confirms what many of us are thinking.

[boomerangutang]

                   A recent little forum:  A reporter invited about 7 Trump supporters to express themselves.  Interestingly, they all still support him.   I'm an unabashed anti-Trumpster, so it surprises me that Trump fans still, after all the negative reports about him, support him.   Getting Trump out of office could be a tougher nut to crack than I thought.   It's as if there are a bunch of people in the US (up to 1/3rd! of voters) who don't mind that he lies daily, is a pussy-grabber, denigrates anyone who doesn't praise him, and is a man who is provably mentally deficient.   That's not just a low-bar, it's a bar 20 meters below grade.

[funandsuninbangkok]

3 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Love this comment.  Amazing that some actually support this.  Democracy at it's worst.  Thanks for sharing.  Proves what many of us think about him.

 

 

You left out the part where losing the Obamacare vote was best political deal he could hope for. Six months from now dems will wish it had passed as millions get tossed of their healthcare.  Trump can claim he tried to fix it but Dems stopped him. 

 

2018 will be a slaughterhouse for dems because of Obamacare. Bet on it.

[boomerangutang]

Just now, funandsuninbangkok said:

You left out the part where losing the Obamacare vote was best political deal he could hope for. Six months from now dems will wish it had passed as millions get tossed of their healthcare.  Trump can claim he tried to fix it but Dems stopped him. 

2018 will be a slaughterhouse for dems because of Obamacare. Bet on it.

                      That brings up two interesting points:   Each prez takes an oath of office at his inauguration. Part it states, "I will faithfully uphold the laws of the land."   When Trump openly hopes Obamacare will "explode" (his word), he is breaking that pledge.  Just as grave, he is expressing his hope for ill-health/sickness for millions of Americans. 

 

               It's similar to Trump, during the campaign, hoping the NY Times and Washington Post newspapers go out of business.  It's the opposite of being "a jobs president" to hope that large businesses go out bankrupt.  

[craigt3365]

3 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

You left out the part where losing the Obamacare vote was best political deal he could hope for. Six months from now dems will wish it had passed as millions get tossed of their healthcare.  Trump can claim he tried to fix it but Dems stopped him. 

 

2018 will be a slaughterhouse for dems because of Obamacare. Bet on it.

If you read the article correctly, it says this:

 

Quote

As embarrassing as it is that the health bill collapsed, it would have been far worse for him politically had it passed.

 

I.E. he's lucky it failed.  He's lucky he lost.  Because it would have been far worse politically that just losing.  So, Trump's lucky to be a loser? LOL

 

You have a crystal ball?  If so, please tell me if the stock market will go up or down tomorrow. LOL.  Right now, we have NO idea how 2018 will turn out.  Even your article says that.  Great article by the way.

[boomerangutang]

                    If the US is "the nicest place in the world to live", that doesn't say much about other places.

The US has the highest medical and pharma costs in the world. It is the only country with a president who wants to increase the # of nukes.  It is the only country with a president and administration which wants to make skies/water dirtier with added/unneeded coal and fossil fuel burning.   I could also say good things about my country, but you prompted me to respond to your silly assertion.  

 

                          Does Trump know that alternative power generation now costs less than coal or fossil fuels?  Maybe someone told him, but he'd rather maintain some WV voters' allegiance, than continue on a path to clean renewable power.  Even the head of WV's largest coal company said coal is on the way out, and workers should be re-trained to work in other fields, like alternative energy or digital.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Moderator01
Hidden post removed

[thaihome]

Very good analysis of populism and Trump by someone that is still experiencing Venezuela and Chávez.

TH 

 

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/donald-trumps-fictional-america-post-fact-venezuela-214973

 

You should therefore see Trump’s increasing war against the media and established fact for what it is. Not as a case of presidential derangement, or even a certain carelessness about what is factual. Not even as some sort of obstinate demolition. It is something else altogether. Like all populists, Trump is motivated mainly by the construction of a fiction. His is a carefully designed plan to recreate for a large enough chunk of people an alternative reality in which there really is success, there really is vengeance, there really is a sense of improvement. For himself and for his audience, this suspicion of improvement, like the placebo effect that begins before a drug begins to work, is good enough. And to your dismay, durable enough also.

[craigt3365]

Comparing Trump to Chavez is spot on.  And look where  Venezuela is now.

[Ramen087]

14 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Comparing Trump to Chavez is spot on.  And look where  Venezuela is now.

You see in the next four years Pres, Trump nationalizing the energy industry in the USA as Mr Chavez did?  You also see rows of empty shelves in thousands of supermarkets while people line up for the basic essentials of civilized existence?   

Edited April 3, 2017 by Ramen087

[boomerangutang]

8 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Comparing Trump to Chavez is spot on.  And look where  Venezuela is now.

Comparing Trump to Brownback of Kansas would also be on the mark.  The Kansas Republican governor took his state along the Republican economic route and nearly bankrupted the state.   Even Kansas Republican legislators are fighting him.  

 

Trump also has a lot in common with Fil's Duterte, but that's another story.

[Andaman Al]

2 hours ago, Ramen087 said:

You also see rows of empty shelves in thousands of supermarkets while people line up for the basic essentials of civilized existence?

It will be a slow insidious start but yes. Imagine all those crops going to waste and rotting when you don't have any Mexicans left to break their backs every day picking them. Meanwhile, the masses of unemployed/low income Americans who would be needed to do such jobs prefer to wait for their social security pay checks so they can go and buy some more face book credits from their local gas station so they can fill their days playing face book games. Mexicans allow many Americans to fill their lazy obese lives doing nothing all day. The days of empty supermarket shelves will come, but you will have lots of new bright shiny nukes and tanks to look at though.

[craigt3365]

3 hours ago, Ramen087 said:

You see in the next four years Pres, Trump nationalizing the energy industry in the USA as Mr Chavez did?  You also see rows of empty shelves in thousands of supermarkets while people line up for the basic essentials of civilized existence?   

The comparison would be a presidential candidate who pitched a populist message to a dissatisfied population.  Promising everything, and in the end, causing lots of problems.  So yes, very similar.  But no, it will never get to the level they are experiencing in Venezuela.  Trump would be impeached well before then.  But who knows.  Worth a read:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/27/in-venezuela-we-couldnt-stop-chavez-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-we-did/?utm_term=.d918be10549d

 

Quote

 

In Venezuela, we couldn’t stop Chávez. Don’t make the same mistakes we did.

 

 

But politics is only one-half policy: The other, darker half is rhetoric. Sometimes the rhetoric takes over. Such has been our lot in Venezuela for the past two decades — and such is yours now, Americans. Because in one regard, Trump and Chávez are identical. They are both masters of populism.

 

 

Duerte falls into the same camp.  Snake oil salesman that sold the populist masses to the public.  Guess the Shins can be lumped in there also.  One of the failings of democracy.

[Ramen087]

52 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

The comparison would be a presidential candidate who pitched a populist message to a dissatisfied population.  Promising everything, and in the end, causing lots of problems.  So yes, very similar.  But no, it will never get to the level they are experiencing in Venezuela.  Trump would be impeached well before then.  But who knows.  Worth a read:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/27/in-venezuela-we-couldnt-stop-chavez-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-we-did/?utm_term=.d918be10549d

Duerte falls into the same camp.  Snake oil salesman that sold the populist masses to the public.  Guess the Shins can be lumped in there also.  One of the failings of democracy.

I don't see it but thx for sharing the opinion as provided by the WP.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Ramen087

[Jingthing]

It's not that hard to see it, really.

Populist autocratic demagogues share many odious similarities and have the potential of inflicting similar levels of societal DAMAGE regardless of whether they're perceived as left, right, or center. 

I suppose I do realize some people, especially trump loyalists, weirdly can't even see that trump is one of those vile combinations we've seen through history that should be avoided by rational people like the plague:

POPULIST

DEMAGOGUE

AUTOCRATIC

Of course he's also his own unique brew of strangeness with his bizarre mental condition, evidenced almost daily on twitter. That doesn't make him less dangerous!

Edited April 3, 2017 by Jingthing

[Ramen087]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's not that hard to see it, really.

Populist autocratic demagogues share many odious similarities and have the potential of inflicting similar levels of societal DAMAGE regardless of whether they're perceived as left, right, or center. 

I suppose I do realize some people, especially trump loyalists, weirdly can't even see that trump is one of those vile combinations we've seen through history that should be avoided by rational people like the plague:

POPULIST

DEMAGOGUE

AUTOCRATIC

Of course he's also his own unique brew of strangeness with his bizarre mental condition, evidenced almost daily on twitter. That doesn't make him less dangerous!

Nope. That's not the way I see it. Your vision is prone to a much different conclusion.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Ramen087 said:

Nope. That's not the way I see it. Your vision is prone to a much different conclusion.

I gathered that and it's really like we're on different planets. He's right in everyone's face about all that.

[Ramen087]

He's?  To whom are you referring?

[craigt3365]

5 minutes ago, Ramen087 said:

Nope. That's not the way I see it. Your vision is prone to a much different conclusion.

So you are saying Trump's pitch isn't populist?

[Ramen087]

4 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

So you are saying Trump's pitch isn't populist?

I just don't see it as the WP does, in total.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Ramen087 said:

He's?  To whom are you referring?

Seriously? 

[craigt3365]

19 minutes ago, Ramen087 said:

I just don't see it as the WP does, in total.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism
 

Quote

 

Populism is a political doctrine that proposes that the common people are exploited by a privileged elite, and which seeks to resolve this. The underlying ideology of populists can be left, right, or center. Its goal is uniting the uncorrupt and the unsophisticated "little man" against the corrupt dominant elites (usually established politicians) and their camp of followers (usually the rich and influential). It is guided by the belief that political and social goals are best achieved by the direct actions of the masses. Although it chiefly comes into being where mainstream political institutions are perceived to have failed to deliver, there is no identifiable economic or social set of conditions that give rise to it, and it is not confined to any particular social class.^[1]

^....

Populism is most common in democratic nations. Political scientist Cas Mudde wrote that, "Many observers have noted that populism is inherent to representative democracy; after all, do populists not juxtapose 'the pure people' against 'the corrupt elite'?"^[3]

 

 

This should help clarify things.

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/donald-trump-working-class-voters-219231

 

Quote

 

Trump's 6 populist positions

His challenges to GOP orthodoxy spur soul-searching among party elites about how to snag working-class voters.

 

 

[Godolphin]

Populist? Yes. Demagogue, yes. Liar, yes. Unstable, yes,

 

Some very telling comment from the L A Times:

 

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-ed-our-dishonest-president/

[Ramen087]

2 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism
 

 

This should help clarify things.

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/donald-trump-working-class-voters-219231

 

 

Clarification is not needed.  I don't view the current administration the way the WP (and standard democratic or otherwise self classifies progressive sites)  do. I also do not share their outlook on things to come.  It takes at least a year, and more like a year and a half to get a feel for an administration.  As I have stated many times, I'd like to wait before coming to any conclusions and how to vote in midterm elections.  

Edited April 3, 2017 by Ramen087

[Jingthing]

Clarification is not needed.  I don't view the current administration the way the WP does. I also do not share their outlook on things to come.

No matter what he does eh?

[Ramen087]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No matter what he does eh?

Huh? 

[Andaman Al]

2 minutes ago, Ramen087 said:

Huh? 

You are trolling.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

1 hour ago, Ramen087 said:

Clarification is not needed.  I don't view the current administration the way the WP (and standard democratic or otherwise self classifies progressive sites)  do. I also do not share their outlook on things to come.  It takes at least a year, and more like a year and a half to get a feel for an administration.  As I have stated many times, I'd like to wait before coming to any conclusions and how to vote in midterm elections.  

 

Your contrariness is pure baiting. You make no serious argument in defense of your 'position' beyond wait and see. You attempt to support this position with self serving and bogus claims. It is well known among actual pundits that a President has only a maximum of 18 months to implement their platform before getting bogged down by the mid terms and second term issues (if there is one). 45's political capital has diminished daily since well before his inauguration.

 

Those who voted for the clown and apparently 'don't see' what the rest of us see, will need to start offering more than excuses otherwise they will disappear into the political noise and fade away into the irrelevance from which they came. Meanwhile, actual movements like the Tea Party and Progressives will find real leaders, develop real policies and build real political organizations. Neither Trump nor any of his arse-lickers have the wherewithal to form his voting bloc into a real political movement.

 

Take your 18 months. There will be no coalescence. Merely a constant shedding of the loons and nuts who lucked into this administration. I hope to see Bannon ousted first and then the shopping list of idiot Cabinet.