Trump: US to quit TPP trade deal on first day in office

[pattayalover]

he should quit his condo of NY, not quit the TPP! . his place is tacky. fake gold everywhere, com on, what a loser.

and look at the view he has, totally ugly. view on a gray town and smog.

he should quit the USA and come to Pattaya to get a real life like mine.

[smotherb]

On 11/22/2016 at 4:08 PM, pookiki said:

The problem is that someone doing it for less includes slave and bonded labor as well as exploitation of migrant workers. Insufficient protection for the rights or working people.

Please, if your job can be done by unskilled slave and bonded labor; you really have a problem.

 

Workers who will work for less than Westerners also includes skilled workmen from third-countries; who can easily do the work for which Westerners want higher pay.

Yeah, yeah; Westerners are better workers. It seems every expat worker thinks no local worker can do his job. Look around you and see how many local workers are there; compared to what it was 5, 10, or even 20 years ago.

[Mosha]

No, it's common sense. If you can only do what others can do for less; why would anyone hire you?

Let's replace the population with cheap immigrant labour, what can go wrong? London, Paris, Brussels. Rotherham, shall I go on?

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[smotherb]

9 minutes ago, Mosha said:

Let's replace the population with cheap immigrant labour, what can go wrong? London, Paris, Brussels. Rotherham, shall I go on?

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Why not? Why should anyone pay you more to do the same job this cheap immigrant laborer will do?

[Mosha]

Why not? Why should anyone pay you more to do the same job this cheap immigrant laborer will do?

Bombers, rapists, child molesters are OK in your world? OK you obviously put profit 1st.

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[smotherb]

9 minutes ago, Mosha said:

 

Bombers, rapists, child molesters are OK in your world? OK you obviously put profit 1st.

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Don't you see? You need to learn better skills so the cheap immigrant labor cannot do your job.

[Mosha]

Don't you see? You need to learn better skills so the cheap immigrant labor cannot do your job.

I am from capitalist mill owning stock on my paternal grandmother's side. I saw what they did in the 1960s in West Yorkshire. I'm disgusted. You'll never understand.

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[Johpa]

It would appear to me that the primary purpose of the TPP is to create a favorable environment for the multinational corporations to compete in unison against the Chinese by providing those corporations with protections from pesky national sovereign legalities. The TPP appears to have little to do with trade itself or laws protecting workers, a pipe dream in most Asian countries.


Trump is a Turd

[smotherb]

3 minutes ago, Mosha said:

I am from capitalist mill owning stock on my paternal grandmother's side. I saw what they did in the 1960s in West Yorkshire. I'm disgusted. You'll never understand.

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I think it is you who doesn't understand.

 

I am not arguing that it is a shame a man cannot earn a decent living for his family right in his own home town.  However; your government mandated a liberal immigration policy and the lower-skilled jobs went to the immigrants; because they would work for less. Can you really expect a firm to pay you more than an immigrant worker who does the same job; just because you're you? 

 

If your skills are no better than the skills of those cheap immigrant laborers; you need to upgrade your skills.

[boomerangutang]

           Trade deals are a mixed bag.  Some industries will gain, some will lose.  It's probably better to tweak the deal (to add improvements) rather than scuttle it altogether.  I don't know.  I haven't read it, and I doubt anyone commenting on here has read it either.  

 

        Trade deals, in general, are ways for countries to communicate - and hopefully it's win-win for all parties.   Communication is usually a good way to resolve issues.  Pulling out is easy, but can also be harmful.  Trump is good at pulling out of commitments.  He did it with 2 wives, with his businesses in Atlantic City, and with most of his other business ventures.   He usually pulls out without giving any notice, and thereby leaves investors and contractors broke.   At least with TPP he's giving some notice.   But he may find out he's hurting more US businesses than helping.  

[tonbridgebrit]

1 hour ago, Johpa said:

It would appear to me that the primary purpose of the TPP is to create a favorable environment for the multinational corporations to compete in unison against the Chinese by providing those corporations with protections from pesky national sovereign legalities. The TPP appears to have little to do with trade itself or laws protecting workers, a pipe dream in most Asian countries.


Trump is a Turd

What ? 

You go and say "primary purpose of the TPP is to create a favorable environment for the multinational corporations to compete in unison against the Chinese by providing those corporations with protections from pesky national sovereign legalities. The TPP appears to have little to do with trade itself or laws protecting workers".  It was OBAMA who wanted to create the TPP. 

Maybe you should say that it was Obama who was a turd. But you've come here and said that Trump is a turd. Trump is going to dis-mantle this TPP,  TPP gives corporations protection from pesky national sovereign legalities, TPP has little to do with trade or laws protecting workers, according to you.

 

[Xircal]

12 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Anything that upsets the nobs in Brussels is good news afaic. 

 

You're thinking of the TTIP. That's not the same as the TTP which only concerns the US, Japan, Malaysia, Vietnam, Singapore, Brunei, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Mexico, Chile and Peru: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32498715

 

But the US withdrawing from the treaty will be music to Chinese ears who will happily take over where the US left off.

[tonbridgebrit]

1 hour ago, boomerangutang said:

           Trade deals are a mixed bag.  Some industries will gain, some will lose.  It's probably better to tweak the deal (to add improvements) rather than scuttle it altogether.  I don't know.  I haven't read it, and I doubt anyone commenting on here has read it either.  

 

        Trade deals, in general, are ways for countries to communicate - and hopefully it's win-win for all parties.   Communication is usually a good way to resolve issues.  Pulling out is easy, but can also be harmful.  Trump is good at pulling out of commitments.  He did it with 2 wives, with his businesses in Atlantic City, and with most of his other business ventures.   He usually pulls out without giving any notice, and thereby leaves investors and contractors broke.   At least with TPP he's giving some notice.   But he may find out he's hurting more US businesses than helping.  

Boomer, I think we should be honest here, and accept that the TPP was an attempt to create a new giant free-trade zone, with China outside of this free-trade zone.  The intent was to encourage trade between it's own members, and to reduce trade with China, seeing as China was not going to be in it.

Remember when Publicus was here ? He hated China, and cheered on the creation of the TPP,  he knew that any free-trade zone is about building a fence that will 'seperate' or distance it's members from any non-members.

The TPP was mainly an anti-China thing, the intent was to have America importing LESS cheap goods from China, and replace those cheap Chinese imports with cheap imports from other countries (countries inside the TPP). The intent was also to have Japan reducing it's imports of cheap Chinese goods, and replace those imports with cheap imports from other countries (again, with imports from countries inside the TPP).
 

[tonbridgebrit]

16 minutes ago, Xircal said:

 

You're thinking of the TTIP. That's not the same as the TTP which only concerns the US, Japan, Malaysia, Vietnam, Singapore, Brunei, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Mexico, Chile and Peru: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32498715

 

But the US withdrawing from the treaty will be music to Chinese ears who will happily take over where the US left off.

But Trump also plans to put serious taxes on the Chinese imports entering America. China is a bit scared right now, China's manufacturing sector will be hit hard if Trump does actually put on the taxes.

 

[Xircal]

11 hours ago, stevenl said:

Ah yes, Europe that country that was the first to sign on to the TPP.

 

Europe is currently negotiating a deal with the US called the TTIP: nothing to do with the TTP which only concerns the Asia-Pacific region. 

 

Also, Europe is a continent, not a country.

[Xircal]

13 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

But Trump also plans to put serious taxes on the Chinese imports entering America. China is a bit scared right now, China's manufacturing sector will be hit hard if Trump does actually put on the taxes.

 

 

It might not make any difference actually. One of Trump's 'promises' was to force Apple to move iPhone manufacturing to the US by imposing a 45% tariff on all Chinese imports. The problem here is that all the components which an iPhone is made of are manufactured in China. If the US wants to start manufacturing all those components instead it's going to double the cost of the phone at the very least. In that event Apple may simply decide to continue manufacturing the iphone in China and pay the 45% tax if the costs are lower and then hiking the price to consumer to cover the additional expense.

 

Even if they don't do that and move factories to the US instead, it'll still impact on the cost of the finished product unless US workers are prepared to do the job for the same wages their Chinese counterparts earn. Will consumers be willing to pay an extra $300 for an iPhone made in the US d'you think?

 

Also, China has promised a tit-for-tat response if Trump does go ahead with punitive import tariffs. That'll mean US exports to China will suffer the same fate. China has also stated all Boeing orders will be switched to Airbus which will hurt US aircraft industry and imports of US soya beans and rice will cease entirely. Food for thought if you'll pardon the pun. 

[Chicog]

It seems the Chinese might actually be happy about this...

 

Quote

Just this weekend, the official Chinese news agency described TPP as "the economic arm of the Obama administration's geopolitical strategy to make sure that Washington rules supreme in the region".

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-38060980

Edited November 22, 2016 by Chicog

[Xircal]

6 minutes ago, Chicog said:

It seems the Chinese might actually be happy about this...

 

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-38060980

 

Very much so. In fact Japan is one of the countries which would have been part of the TTP deal had it gone through and may now look to other sources of investment such as with Russia for example: http://www.reuters.com/article/japan-russia-business-idUSL4N1DM4MH

 

[tonbridgebrit]

7 minutes ago, Xircal said:

 

It might not make any difference actually. One of Trump's 'promises' was to force Apple to move iPhone manufacturing to the US by imposing a 45% tariff on all Chinese imports. The problem here is that all the components which an iPhone is made of are manufactured in China. If the US wants to start manufacturing all those components instead it's going to double the cost of the phone at the very least. In that event Apple may simply decide to continue manufacturing the iphone in China and pay the 45% tax if the costs are lower and then hiking the price to consumer to cover the additional expense.

 

Even if they don't do that and move factories to the US instead, it'll still impact on the cost of the finished product unless US workers are prepared to do the job for the same wages their Chinese counterparts earn. Will consumers be willing to pay an extra $300 for an iPhone made in the US d'you think?

 

Also, China has promised a tit-for-tat response if Trump does go ahead with punitive import tariffs. That'll mean US exports to China will suffer the same fate. China has also stated all Boeing orders will be switched to Airbus which will hurt US aircraft industry and imports of US soya beans and rice will cease entirely. Food for thought if you'll pardon the pun. 

Great post you've put up.

Okay, I'm not a suppporter of putting taxes onto imports, but Trump will probably (or might) still impose them. You've mentioned the specific case of Apple, what about other products ? Basically, America is importing a vast amount of cheap Chinese goods. US workers will demand far higher wages than their Chinese counterparts earn, yes. But that's what Trump is on about, the reduction of cheap imports, and the creation of manufacturing jobs in America. Yes, the goods will be more expensive if made in America, but consumers might simply have to accept that. 

Who knows, the creation of new manufacturing jobs in America might generate votes for Trump, even though some people are going to be angry at the more expensive prices.

A trade war between America and China ?  Who is going to be hurt more ? I think China will be hurt more. China already has a giant monthly trade surplus with America, a massive trade war will simply reduce the Chinese surplus ?  As in, put simply, if China and America stop trading with each other (an extreme case, I know) well, there's going to be no American deficit with China. Surely ??

 

[Opl]

In theory maybe, but not so simple:

- for instance jobs in the electronic devices field   that have left , hardly come back... and even less since robots can replace workers.

- add 40% on goods you regularly consume, see how your budget looks , and if you can afford it, than OK, but not for all

[Xircal]

2 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Great post you've put up.

Okay, I'm not a suppporter of putting taxes onto imports, but Trump will probably (or might) still impose them. You've mentioned the specific case of Apple, what about other products ? Basically, America is importing a vast amount of cheap Chinese goods. US workers will demand far higher wages than their Chinese counterparts earn, yes. But that's what Trump is on about, the reduction of cheap imports, and the creation of manufacturing jobs in America. Yes, the goods will be more expensive if made in America, but consumers might simply have to accept that. 

Who knows, the creation of new manufacturing jobs in America might generate votes for Trump, even though some people are going to be angry at the more expensive prices.

A trade war between America and China ?  Who is going to be hurt more ? I think China will be hurt more. China already has a giant monthly trade surplus with America, a massive trade war will simply reduce the Chinese surplus ?  As in, put simply, if China and America stop trading with each other (an extreme case, I know) well, there's going to be no American deficit with China. Surely ??

 

 

Again, creating jobs might not happen to any significant degree if plants are automated and products are built by robots. Also, will Americans be willing to perform the kind of repetitive task of assembling an iphone eight hours a day. I worked on a production line myself when I was young and I used to dread going to work after less than two weeks on the job.

 

Also, what's the point of creating new jobs if nobody wants to buy the product because it's just too expensive. Lots of people will just go on vacation to places like Thailand and buy the same phone for less than half what it costs in the US.

 

But if it comes to a trade war both sides will suffer, but it could also increase tensions between the two leading to a military confrontation if it gets out of hand. China may even decide to test Trump's resolve by invading Taiwan which the US guarantees the safety of, or to increase its military presence on the Spratly Islands in the South China Seas which would underrmine US security interests in the area.

 

Trump needs to throw away his business thinking cap and start wearing that of a statesman. Running a business and running a country are two entirely different things.

[Chicog]

2 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Great post you've put up.

Okay, I'm not a suppporter of putting taxes onto imports, but Trump will probably (or might) still impose them. You've mentioned the specific case of Apple, what about other products ? Basically, America is importing a vast amount of cheap Chinese goods. US workers will demand far higher wages than their Chinese counterparts earn, yes. But that's what Trump is on about, the reduction of cheap imports, and the creation of manufacturing jobs in America. Yes, the goods will be more expensive if made in America, but consumers might simply have to accept that. 

Who knows, the creation of new manufacturing jobs in America might generate votes for Trump, even though some people are going to be angry at the more expensive prices.

A trade war between America and China ?  Who is going to be hurt more ? I think China will be hurt more. China already has a giant monthly trade surplus with America, a massive trade war will simply reduce the Chinese surplus ?  As in, put simply, if China and America stop trading with each other (an extreme case, I know) well, there's going to be no American deficit with China. Surely ??

 

 

Two words: Runaway inflation.

Maybe some of our more erudite posters on the subject of economics can shed some lights on the pros and cons of this.

 

 

[Jingthing]

I don't trust trump. Not news but don't know why anyone does. He has no experience and the way he's already mixed his campaign for presidency with his family and business interests are huge red flags. So trump dumps TPP and lets China dominate Asia. This doesn't smell right to me. China's government must be having a big party now. 

Face it, he's a bloody ISOLATIONIST allied with right wing extremists of the worse kind (white supremacist nativist racists).  It's nothing new in American history. Look up Henry Ford and Lindbergh ... but they never were president. 

 

God help us. 

Edited November 22, 2016 by Jingthing

[stevenl]

 
Europe is currently negotiating a deal with the US called the TTIP: nothing to do with the TTP which only concerns the Asia-Pacific region. 
 
Also, Europe is a continent, not a country.

Right over your head.

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[pookiki]

Quote

 

http://www.nationofchange.org/2016/11/22/battle-affordable-medicine-helped-kill-tpp/

 

Interesting article.

[pookiki]

One more thought provoking read.

 

http://www.nationofchange.org/2016/11/22/dont-free-trade-highly-paid-professions-u-s/

[Stargeezr]

Maybe the TPP and NAFTA are both bad trade deals.  Maybe they both need re written at the very least.

  If Trump threatens to quit TPP, then it could get re negotiated or killed off.  I can see a few shake ups

happening soon

Geezer

[bassman]

America has been stung many times over when signing multi-national trade pacts, where the majority of countries can interfere with a nation's sovereignty to decide for its people.  Trump has this one right, keep trade bilateral, open and most importantly fair.

 

The EU is a prime example where 28 countries making a decision just does not work.  Take a look at the moves in the American stock exchanges and currency in comparison to those of the EU since the Trump miracle.  EU is waddling in the mire of indecision, while America is showing the potential power of cohesive policies. 

[kamahele]

China thanks you Mr. President Elect.

[Silurian]

1 hour ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

If Trump threatens to quit TPP, then it could get re negotiated or killed off.  I can see a few shake ups

happening soon

 

TPP is now a dead deal and the US has lost. The RCEP talks will continue and conclude with China the winner and US in the rear view mirror. The downfall of the US is now in the cards. Well it was a good run.

 

December Talks Give China a Window to Fill Post-Trump Trade Void

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-22/december-talks-give-china-a-window-to-fill-post-trump-trade-void