3 tourist visas in one year too much??!!

[at15]

Update. I had to go back to penang no choice. Bought a ticket in morning flew in yesterday afternoon. That seemed to satisfy immigration when i bought the ticket confirming i would leave. Did not have to sign the papers they had prepared for me. I really am a tourist on holiday with income from internet. But there was no convincing them of that, basically if they think you are not a tourist they can reject policies dont matter. They just could not comprehend how i could stay out of my home country so long. She said if i go holiday i go 1 week,etc. I am a young guy was wearing t shirt shorts sandals. People tend to mess with me in these kind of situations. Also there was a little red note on the tourist visa from penang saying i was a frequent user anyone see this before and gotten through immigration with it. I just wish they would not have even given me the visa in penang if its such a problem could have avoided all the bs.

Edited November 25, 2016 by at15

[muzmurray]

16 hours ago, itsuptome said:

Thailand is definitely less welcoming than it was a few years ago. Additional restrictions have been placed on foreign investment through the BOI, and incentives have been reduced. Work permits for foreigners have become harder to obtain. Education visas are harder to obtain and holders are treated with suspicion. Multi-entry tourist visas are now much harder to obtain. It looks like we are about to see the requirements raised substantially for retirement visas. All this comes in the context of an immigration policy where the path to permanent residence and citizenship is very difficult. In short, the country is closing itself off to non-Thais.

 

In what way are work permits harder to obtain ?

 

Ed visas are still easy to obtain, what has changed is the length of extensions, so now overall it works out a bit more expensive, not harder. (This was done because of all the fake students - sow, and so shall you reap.)

 

Multi-entry tourist visas can not be harder to obtain, because they never existed before. If by "harder" you mean the financial aspect of it, then yes, maybe Thailand wants people to have the money to support themselves on their 6 month holiday. Is that such a bad thing?

[muzmurray]

11 hours ago, elviajero said:

No one knows, but between 2006/08 there was an official published limit on visa exempt entries of 180 days in 6 months that was a rolling count.

 

This 180 day 'rule' seems to be frequently quoted by IO's at various border checkpoints.

 

180 days IS 6 months!

 

Was the limit not 90 days in a 6 month period?

[muzmurray]

In addition to my above post;

 

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy778-2551_en.pdf

[ubonjoe]

19 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Some off topic posts, replies to them and bickering post have been removed. Time to get back on topic.

Posts will be removed from now on without notice. 

Again

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, muzmurray said:

 

In what way are work permits harder to obtain ?

 

Ed visas are still easy to obtain, what has changed is the length of extensions, so now overall it works out a bit more expensive, not harder. (This was done because of all the fake students - sow, and so shall you reap.)

 

Multi-entry tourist visas can not be harder to obtain, because they never existed before. If by "harder" you mean the financial aspect of it, then yes, maybe Thailand wants people to have the money to support themselves on their 6 month holiday. Is that such a bad thing?

 

METV is 'harder' to obtain no because of the financial requirements but because you need a letter from an employer.

 

If you have the finance but no employer then you cannot obtain one.

[LongTimeLurker]

On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 10:05 AM, moe666 said:

Do not sign anything unless it is in english. Also I know this is a sore point but what kind of tourist stays in a country for half a year. Most tourist are two weeksand gone. I think they have finally come to realize that staying on a tourist visa more than 6 months they are living here may not be working but living in Thailand without proper visa. I personally donot care what people do but Thailand seems to be wakeing up to all of the miss use of there visas

 

Only 1 parent of a minor can obtain a non O visa so 

 

In my case the 'proper' visa does not exist so I have to use tourist visas to stay here.

 

Edit: problems editting posts on a tablet

 

Edited November 25, 2016 by LongTimeLurker

[muzmurray]

7 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

METV is 'harder' to obtain no because of the financial requirements but because you need a letter from an employer.

 

If you have the finance but no employer then you cannot obtain one.

 

Incorrect, many people have gotten the visa without an employer's letter.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 minute ago, muzmurray said:

 

Incorrect, many people have gotten the visa without an employer's letter.

 

From which consulates / embassies please?

 

Personal applications or postal?

[mduras01]

I am messaging from DMK, arrived and taking connecting flight now. Just arrived from HCMC with my 8th SETV visa. Also have 4 VE stamps, various dates in the past two and a half years. Arrived looking very proper. Shoes, pressed black shirt, pants, eye glasses. Arrival card reads: tourism, income: 80k+, profession: novelist. All accurate and provable. My income is purely residual. Official did not bat a lash. Oh, age 42. Did not need to show anything else, but had apartment lease and bank statement with significant assets on hand. Also had various Thai bank books, just in case.

Spoke very respectfully and was asked no questions.

Backstory: I never exit and re-enter right away. There is tons to see in SE Asia, so I always spend at least a week outside the kingdom between visas, exploring. I also stay abroad for about a month every 6 months (see family/friends). I also buy large ticket items here to somewhat contribute: new Toyota car, new MacBook Pro (back order via local shop), new iPhone 7, etc -- all purchased here in Thailand. My intent is to show that i appreciate the hospitality and in return do what I can to purchase decent ticket items in the kingdom.

If I'm given problems in the future, I'll opt for the Elite visa. Until then, all seems good.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[buick]

OP - thanks for reporting back.  glad things got better instead of worse.  the younger you are, the harder it is for immigration to believe you are 'retired' or 'not working' in thailand.

[thaitero]

Age matters regarding this, i think yes and there are other unknown variables also like nationality etc..

[itsuptome]

4 hours ago, muzmurray said:

 

In what way are work permits harder to obtain ?

 

Ed visas are still easy to obtain, what has changed is the length of extensions, so now overall it works out a bit more expensive, not harder. (This was done because of all the fake students - sow, and so shall you reap.)

 

Multi-entry tourist visas can not be harder to obtain, because they never existed before. If by "harder" you mean the financial aspect of it, then yes, maybe Thailand wants people to have the money to support themselves on their 6 month holiday. Is that such a bad thing?

 

I made the statement regarding work permits on the basis of conversations with owners, admins and HR managers at companies in Bangkok which employ foreigners in a variety of fields. In 2014 and 2015 many complained that work permit renewals were becoming much more difficult and new applications were being subjected to additional scrutiny. The biggest complaint was that the government was not only requiring more documentation, but becoming less consistent about what they wanted to see, and in some cases delaying applications indefinitely only to produce additional requirements. I have heard fewer complaints in 2016 but suspect to some degree this may just be because these businesses have adapted to a new, more onerous reality. In either case I certainly got the impression that at least in Bangkok, while there were no changes to the labor laws, work permits did get harder to acquire and renew.

 

Also in Bangkok, ED visas now require longer hours of study and as you noted more frequent extension applications. I don't think "sow and you shall reap" is a fair summary of what happened -- some ED visa holders didn't study, and everyone including the ones who followed the rules reaped the consequences. This is like saying many men get into fights, so all men should be put in jail. Either way, it's correct to say that this visa also became harder to obtain and keep.

 

Finally while you're technically accurate that the METV was a new type of visa, it replaced double and triple entry visas which were much easier to obtain. You could get them in many countries and there were no income or employment requirements. So again we have a case where tourists who wanted to come and go several times in a 6 month period have found it's now much harder to obtain a visa for that.

 

So I stand by the statement that regardless of whether you think Thailand was too welcoming in the past, the fact is that it's now becoming less welcoming. All of the cases I described have affected foreigners who come to the country with good intent and contribute to it. Sure, all of them may have discouraged visitors with bad intent as well but the baby was thrown out with the bath water. This is where I lay the blame on the expat community: it doesn't stick together. In fact the expat community in Thailand is particularly bad in this regard compared to those you find in many other countries. If expats aren't going to inform the government of the problems these policies have created and recommend alternatives which can keep bad guys out while also keeping the good guys in, who will?

 

Edited November 25, 2016 by itsuptome

[hawker9000]

Have been saying for ages that a visa in hand is no guarantee of anything.  It certainly improves the odds, but wasn't and isn't ironclad.  Left hand dispenses visas; right hand decides whether to let you in.

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, at15 said:

Update. I had to go back to penang no choice. Bought a ticket in morning flew in yesterday afternoon. ...

 

Thanks for the update.  Can you let us know what was stamped in your passport at DMK (if anything) before you flew back to Penang?  For example, did they stamp "void" or "used" on your Tourist Visa, or place any new stamps or notes in your passport (in Thai or English)?

[DUS]

3 hours ago, muzmurray said:

 

Incorrect, many people have gotten the visa without an employer's letter.

 

True ... myself included....

[elviajero]

8 hours ago, muzmurray said:

 

180 days IS 6 months!

 

Was the limit not 90 days in a 6 month period?

Thank you. I mistakenly wrote 180 when it should have been 90 days. The point of the post was to advise that it was a rolling count.

[elviajero]

8 hours ago, at15 said:

Update. I had to go back to penang no choice. Bought a ticket in morning flew in yesterday afternoon. That seemed to satisfy immigration when i bought the ticket confirming i would leave. Did not have to sign the papers they had prepared for me. I really am a tourist on holiday with income from internet. But there was no convincing them of that, basically if they think you are not a tourist they can reject policies dont matter. They just could not comprehend how i could stay out of my home country so long. She said if i go holiday i go 1 week,etc. I am a young guy was wearing t shirt shorts sandals. People tend to mess with me in these kind of situations. Also there was a little red note on the tourist visa from penang saying i was a frequent user anyone see this before and gotten through immigration with it. I just wish they would not have even given me the visa in penang if its such a problem could have avoided all the bs.

It would be interesting to know what reason they gave for denying entry. Did they issue the (unsigned) papers to you and or put an entry denial stamp in your passport?

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, DUS said:

 

True ... myself included....

 

Then you must not be from UK?

 

"In the summer I called London, Hull and Liverpool and all told me the same thing. No employment letter (or self assessment) then no visa"

 

Edit: Edit doesn't work properly on PC either

Edited November 25, 2016 by LongTimeLurker

[alocacoc]

3 hours ago, DUS said:

 

True ... myself included....

me too. Sufficient amount of cash in an bank account was accepted. I'm not from the UK.

Edited November 25, 2016 by alocacoc

[LongTimeLurker]

44 minutes ago, alocacoc said:

me too. Sufficient amount of cash in an bank account was accepted. I'm not from the UK.

 

So there seems to be one restrictive rule for UK and a more liberal one for the rest of the world.

 

And the other problem is usually that to apply in a country of which you do not hold a passport you have to be a resident of that country.

[Cletus]

3 hours ago, alocacoc said:

me too. Sufficient amount of cash in an bank account was accepted. I'm not from the UK.

 

Same for me.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

The clampdown started 10 years ago, with them marking number of consecutive 30s at maesai and others..Also overstay increased from 200 to 500.  The ED visa thing was widely abused..can't really blame them for that, either.  It would be interesting to see things that often matter a lot:  skin color, nationality, tattoos, hair....style is everything here.  It still can happen to anyone, though.  Systems create system players, who engage in testing the limits of the system...and often cry foul, when they are called out.  Notice, almost all of those called out are doing exactly what is forbidden, and that is living here on a tourist visa.  If I was early 40s, I would take a hint and go to cambo or Myanmar.  Finding the new frontier is the name of the game...a lot of the things that made LOS famous are clearly on the decline, if not completely finished.

[asiansfirst]

On 11/24/2016 at 1:03 AM, BritTim said:

Do you mean a tourist visa or a visa exempt entry? If they are real tourist visas, this is very odd. You are US nationality, right? Did you have any overstays? If you overstayed and then immediately tried to come back, your experience is, perhaps, understandable. Are they holding on to your passport right now?

 

Huh? Why is this very odd? Because he holds US nationality? He stays in Thailand for 250 days and you find Thai immigration's stance on this  matter a very odd one? This is a sovereign nation and if their immigration officers find he is not eligible for admission, protesting on the basis of US nationality is uncalled for.

 

Imagine if a Thai (or any other Asian) national were to spend 250 days in the EU or in the United States on back to back visas. If he or she were denied entry, would you find that equally odd?

 

Regardless of having overstayed or not, tourists do not visit countries for 250 days. 

 

Some foreigners come to Asia thinking their nationalities exempt them from the immigration laws.

 

Again, for those who are confused about what a visa is and how one is permitted landing on Thai soil:

 

Landing permission is stamped in a foreigner's passport by immigration officers at the airport or seaport where he or she goes through immigration procedures. It is this landing permission, not a visa, that serves as the legal basis for the foreigner's stay in Thailand. A visa is only a recommendation and does not automatically guarantee landing permission. 
 

Edited November 26, 2016 by asiansfirst

[BritTim]

28 minutes ago, asiansfirst said:

 

Huh? Why is this very odd? Because he holds US nationality? He stays in Thailand for 250 days and you find Thai immigration's stance on this  matter a very odd one? This is a sovereign nation and if their immigration officers find he is not eligible for admission, protesting on the basis of US nationality is uncalled for.

 

Imagine if a Thai (or any other Asian) national were to spend 250 days in the EU or in the United States on back to back visas. If he or she were denied entry, would you find that equally odd?

 

Regardless of having overstayed or not, tourists do not visit countries for 250 days. 

 

Some foreigners come to Asia thinking their nationalities exempt them from the immigration laws.

 

Again, for those who are confused about what a visa is and how one is permitted landing on Thai soil:

 

Landing permission is stamped in a foreigner's passport by immigration officers at the airport or seaport where he or she goes through immigration procedures. It is this landing permission, not a visa, that serves as the legal basis for the foreigner's stay in Thailand. A visa is only a recommendation and does not automatically guarantee landing permission. 
 

 

The reference to US nationality was because I have seen immigration treat, for instance, some African nationals very unfairly (probably illegally). It would be a new departure if they were now doing the same with Westerners, at least on entry at airports.

 

In Thai immigration law, the concept of "landing permission" does not exist. Immigration can deny someone entry into the country. However, they need to justify their decision, and indicate (in writing) the reasons. These reasons must be based on the Thai Immigration Law of 1979. Specifically, they must be based on conditions specified in Section 12 (see http://www.thailawforum.com/database1/immigration-law-mejesty-2.html). I am well aware that the rules in other countries are different, but this is Thai law. It is rather outdated having been promulgated so many years ago, but, on paper, it is extremely fair. The immigration official cannot legally (as often claimed on this board) simply decide to exclude someone without giving reasons.

[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

...  Systems create system players, who engage in testing the limits of the system...and often cry foul, when they are called out.  Notice, almost all of those called out are doing exactly what is forbidden, and that is living here on a tourist visa.  ...

 

This is a common misperception.  There is no law or ministerial order that forbids a person residing here most of the year using serial Tourist Visas.  It is, therefore, not forbidden. 

 

IOs quoting long-since rescinded orders (as in the OP's case), which never even applied to Tourist Visas in the first place, does not change what is legal.  Granted, they may break their own laws and rules and deny entry, regardless.  The people with the power in a given situation can always win, regardless of what "the law says."  Maybe there will be consequences for their actions, and maybe not.  The only option of the applicant is to appeal, and possibly spend 7 days in custody awaiting a hearing, with an unknown outcome.

 

2 hours ago, asiansfirst said:

Some foreigners come to Asia thinking their nationalities exempt them from the immigration laws.

 

Most (if not all) nations' immigration systems treat nationals from one country differently than those from another.  If, for instance, a person comes to Thailand from a nation with significantly higher wage-scales as compared to Thailand, it is far less likely they will seek employment than a person coming from a nation with lower wage-scales as compared to Thailand. 

 

It is, therefore, logical that those coming from lower-wage nations are given additional scrutiny upon entry.  It is similarly illogical to assume a foreigner from a higher-wage nation is, or is planning to, seek employment in Thailand.  The only wide-scale exception is in the teaching profession, and that could be ended quickly, by simply checking schools for illegal teachers.

 

Quote

Again, for those who are confused about what a visa is and how one is permitted landing on Thai soil:

 

Landing permission is stamped in a foreigner's passport by immigration officers at the airport or seaport where he or she goes through immigration procedures. It is this landing permission, not a visa, that serves as the legal basis for the foreigner's stay in Thailand. A visa is only a recommendation and does not automatically guarantee landing permission.

 

I read the law differently.  A visa is prior-permission given to enter a country, though it can be overridden at the immigration-checkpoint, but only if there is deemed to be sufficient Cause to Deny Entry.  Causes to deny entry are specified, and include insufficient funds to support oneself, and suspicion of working illegally.

Edited November 26, 2016 by JackThompson

[buick]

9 hours ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

The clampdown started 10 years ago, with them marking number of consecutive 30s at maesai and others..Also overstay increased from 200 to 500.  The ED visa thing was widely abused..can't really blame them for that, either.  It would be interesting to see things that often matter a lot:  skin color, nationality, tattoos, hair....style is everything here.  It still can happen to anyone, though.  Systems create system players, who engage in testing the limits of the system...and often cry foul, when they are called out.  Notice, almost all of those called out are doing exactly what is forbidden, and that is living here on a tourist visa.  If I was early 40s, I would take a hint and go to cambo or Myanmar.  Finding the new frontier is the name of the game...a lot of the things that made LOS famous are clearly on the decline, if not completely finished.

 

i agree with what you say with a slight modification, you say living here on tourist visas is forbidden.  i would say 'living here on tourist visas while working in thailand (no work permit obviously) or without sufficient funds to support yourself is forbidden'.  i provided some detail on my experience a page or two back in this thread.  here is some more detail.   i've spent more than 250 days a year in thailand for the last 10 yrs.  in year 4, 5, or 6 (i can't recall exactly), immigration at suvarnabhumi pulled me aside and asked what i'd been doing in thailand.  i said i'm retired and too young to get the retirement visa (i was 44, 45 or 46 at the time).  they instructed me to obtain tourist visas and avoid visa exempt entries when possible (they said nothing about the elite scheme).  if it was truly forbidden, i wouldn't be here.  it is all speculation as to why they are 'okay' with me.  i get my visas in my home country (USA) and they currently require proof of funds to get a tourist visa so they know i have enough money to support myself.  in order to stay for the 250 days, i get a SETV and extend (90 days).  i then fly to hong kong, the PI, vietnam or europe (i always stay at least a week usually two).  i return on a visa exempt entry, extend that (60 days).  then do that again, 60 days.  that is 210 days.  then i fly back to USA for two months and return with an SETV and start all over again.  last year i did three visa exempt entries in a row (and extended each).  i had no problem although i was wondering if i would, i had my flight out of thailand plus my thai bank account statement just in case they pulled me aside.  so you just have to be ready for a 'discussion'. again, if it was forbidden, i would not have been allowed in.  i am now 50 and will be getting the retirement visa soon.

 

(i see another TV member has just now touched on the same topic !!)

[thaiclan]

My family have been dealing with this issue for almost a year for our 7 year old (British) daughter.

Dad has Elite card, Mum has Non O as a guardian of eldest daughter who is at international school and has a non o "Ed" visa.

7 year old is homeschooled so officially cannot get a visa and has relied on 30 day stamps on arriva.  We travel around the region a lot (most months) but after 3 trips away we kept getting flagged at the airport (Suvarnabhumi and Utapo) and told if she goes out she won't be allowed back in.  Not sure what they would do with a 7 year old denied entry! LOL

No visa shop could help us as there isn't a visa a 7 year old can get, and all the advice was that she SHOULD be able to "follow the parents".

  We tried English Program schools that we could enroll her and just use that as a way to get a visa, but all need attendance as well as graduation of previous years which she doesn't have.

In the end a very kind and friendly embassy staff in a regional country (won't name) told us that this is a grey area but they would provide a non-o for her.  So we are all fine now but that doesn't help others in the same situation.

Of course a 7 year old is not working (!?!)  However I do understand that the demographics of foreigners living in Thailand has changed dramatically over the past decade with more young families here not on an expat package thus need to get their own visa's sorted.

[thetruth revealer]

Just beeing curious , how does the Computer system count a person with Double Nationality ?

Is it right to assume that such person will appear twice in the computer , so in theory it would be possible to switch passports once in a while to avoid reaching the maximum allowed time within the regulations?

Maybe Ubon Joe knows more about ???

 

 

 

Thanks and greets

[thetruth revealer]

On 24.11.2016 at 10:05 AM, moe666 said:

Do not sign anything unless it is in english. Also I know this is a sore point but what kind of tourist stays in a country for half a year. Most tourist are two weeksand gone. I think they have finally come to realize that staying on a tourist visa more than 6 months they are living here may not be working but living in Thailand without proper visa. I personally donot care what people do but Thailand seems to be wakeing up to all of the miss use of there visas

LONGTERM TOURIST ?

If ``they`` dont want people stay in the country without ``proper`` Visa, why do the Consulates and Embassy issued the TR Visa to such person ?