3 tourist visas in one year too much??!!

[Poppadom]

1 hour ago, bark said:

Seems like there are many people who are responding; who are not working( legally with permit), or retired. 

I wonder how a normal( and don't mean you are abnormal )  person can afford to take 250 days away from their home country( job).

The days of people going around the system are gone. Happy for this; as I just spent 3 hours and almost 30,000 baht

for my stupid lawyer, renewing my yearly work permit.

 

Let me answer the first part on how one can afford to spend over 250 days and not working: return on smart investments. This November due to good market conditions, my profit takings have exceeded SGD 30k. I let my money work for me.

 

Sorry to hear about your 3 hours and money spent on your stupid lawyer, but from based on what you wrote, I think he is actually quite smart. :)

[Poppadom]

9 minutes ago, lemonjelly said:

Come back through Sadao with 200 baht tucked in passport.

 

RM 20 for each passport on visa run package tour is standard from what I heard. For smooooooth and expedited passport processing :)

Sent from my twisted mind using Thaivisa Connect

[ubonjoe]

6 hours ago, dotpoom said:

Just intrigued as to how you figure he is from the USA (have scrutinized his post) taking into account his username.....(I know...maybe I should get a job or something.555)

Perhaps he checked his content and noticed this in a earlier topic. " Hello, I want to make sure I have this right. I am a U.S. citizen and stayed 30 days on a visa exempt entry"

[bark]

3 minutes ago, Poppadom said:

 

Let me answer the first part on how one can afford to spend over 250 days and not working: return on smart investments. This November due to good market conditions, my profit takings have exceeded SGD 30k. I let my money work for me.

 

Sorry to hear about your 3 hours and money spent on your stupid lawyer, but from based on what you wrote, I think he is actually quite smart. :)

I am over fifty and have made enough money to retire. But I do not; because I feel I have a responsibility to my staff and their families. And working and living in Thailand is great. All lawyers ask the same amount here. And all are stupid. 

Happy you had a good run in the market, but what goes up will always come down. But I hope for continued success for you.

But my comments were meant for people who go around the system, doing border runs every few months; different countries, land and air; to keep under the Thai immigration radar. Working without permits etc.

 

Cheers

 

[Poppadom]

Just now, bark said:

But my comments were meant for people who go around the system, doing border runs every few months; different countries, land and air; to keep under the Thai immigration radar. Working without permits etc.

 

Cheers

 

 

Couldn't agree more. Those guys should be out. I have no intention to retire either, said in another post that I've just been rehired by my ex firm after a career break.

 

Re markets: if they go down then I'll swing to bear instruments, but usually stay in cash  and do scalps/swing trades. Long positions mostly in companies I'd done extensive research on.

[Thainess]

"Computer says no"

[Get Real]

Not because it matters to me, but there is always a lot of talk about the tourist visas. Here it´s mostly people that want´s to use them as a tool for so called long stay n Thailand.
There are other types of visas that are for thoose reasons of staying long time in Thailand. I understand that it must be a schock for everybody that get´s these problems, and it
might not seem fair. I believe that they are doing this to people just out of the reason that they want all to realize that a tourist visas purpose is for tourism not for trying to stay
as long as possible with an unnecessary amount of back to back visas or exemptions.

If you want to stay in Thailand most of the time every year it would be an idéa to think about at least a 6 month tourist visa with possibility to extend for another 3 month, or just go for
student 1 year visa by taking a language course if you don´t meet the requirements for other by beeing retired, married to a Thai or have a Thai child.

[ubonjoe]

Some off topic posts, replies to them and bickering post have been removed. Time to get back on topic.

Posts will be removed from now on without notice. 

[Enoon]

5 hours ago, at15 said:

Oh yeah sorry forgot to mention i had two visa exempt entries. 

I think this 180 day thing maybe a new alert in computer? 

 

Ubonjoe i would like to appeal but lets be honest it would like a .0001% chance right?  Really dont want to waste 7 days in this place. 

 

Are you counting the visa exempt entry and it's subsequent 30 day extension (quoting from past post of yours) as two exempt entries, or have you had two visa exempts and two extensions?

 

I suppose your overall record might be causing them some irritation if you are what they consider to be an "employable" type, who keeps going out and back on the same "tourist" route, as if commuting by timetable.

 

Especially if they have got wind of your activity while in Thailand (working 6hrs a day online as stated in another earlier post). 

 

This may have upset them and provide an easy way to teach you, and the rest of us, a lesson.

 

PS I'm not usually concerned about reviewing peoples past posts but for some reason, in this case, I felt compelled to.  And then my imagination got the better of me.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Enoon

[claffey]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Exactly right. I'm not surprised as it has been said that one can not stay in LOS indefinitely on TVs anymore for ages. One has to get the non immigrant visa now. The third visa would be almost a full year in LOS.

 

I think it's sad though. Back in the 1990s I could stay indefinitely on 90 day visa exempt entries as long as I exited every 90m days. That goody was cancelled though. Bummer

 

Unfortunately, LOS is no longer the welcoming country I first knew, and probably never will be again.

Perhaps Burma will get the expats once they sort their politics. Lots of nice undeveloped beaches like LOS used to have to go live on. 

It's not that Thailand is not welcoming anymore. They are just bringing their immigration rules in line with some of the more so called 'developed' countries. The country is in the middle of a 'boom' and developing very fast. It's good to see them improving and tightening the laws. In the EU or so called 'developed' countries you couldn't live there indefinitely on tourist visa or without the proper visa. Why should Thailand be any different? They don't rely on foreign investment as much anymore and the Chinese are their main source of foreign tourists....

[Deepinthailand]

1 hour ago, bark said:

I am over fifty and have made enough money to retire. But I do not; because I feel I have a responsibility to my staff and their families. And working and living in Thailand is great. All lawyers ask the same amount here. And all are stupid. 

Happy you had a good run in the market, but what goes up will always come down. But I hope for continued success for you.

But my comments were meant for people who go around the system, doing border runs every few months; different countries, land and air; to keep under the Thai immigration radar. Working without permits etc.

 

Cheers

 

I wouldn't say all Lawyers are stupid I have dealings with one and can tell you she is far from stupid.

[Deepinthailand]

42 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

Are you counting the visa exempt entry and it's subsequent 30 day extension (quoting from past post of yours) as two exempt entries, or have you had two visa exempts and two extensions?

 

I suppose your overall record might be causing them some irritation if you are what they consider to be an "employable" type, who keeps going out and back on the same "tourist" route, as if commuting by timetable.

 

Especially if they have got wind of your activity while in Thailand (working 6hrs a day online as stated in another earlier post). 

 

This may have upset them and provide an easy way to teach you, and the rest of us, a lesson.

 

PS I'm not usually concerned about reviewing peoples past posts but for some reason, in this case, I felt compelled to.  And then my imagination got the better of me.

 

 

 

 

Yes agreed

[midas]

I find it a bit strange that this forum isn't being inundated with scores of additional people (other than just the original poster) who have also been held temporarily or refused entry to the country?  Surely if a new rule has been imposed with such dramatic consequences it would be applied across the board so I wonder where  is  everyone else in similar position  to the OP right now? 

Edited November 24, 2016 by midas

[bark]

13 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said:

I wouldn't say all Lawyers are stupid I have dealings with one and can tell you she is far from stupid.

Yes, you could be right. sorry.

If there is a wolf and a lawyer standing in front of you; and you have only one bullet. Who do you shoot ?

Old joke.

[BritTim]

8 minutes ago, midas said:

I find it a bit strange that this forum isn't being inundated with scores of additional people (other than just the original poster) who have also been held temporarily or refused entry to the country?  Surely if a new rule has been imposed with such dramatic consequences it would be applied across the board so I wonder where  is  everyone else in similar position  to the OP right now? 

 

A good question. He may be the vanguard of something that will become prevalent. He may have upset the immigration official in some way. There may be some profiling going on that immigration use to identify people more likely to be working illegally. It is all so opaque.

 

My own view is that there are signs of a tightening up. I think using tourist entries to live in Thailand is one of the areas receiving scrutiny. As is so often the case, the immigration officials are as confused as we are about what they are supposed to be doing.

 

Thai immigration law seems fairly straightforward until you note that almost everything is subject to being overridden by instructions from the Minister or Director General. When those are forthcoming, they are sometimes public, sometimes not. They are sometimes contradictory.

 

If a blanket ban on anyone staying more than 180 days a year is introduced, it will be announced. If an instruction has gone out that people staying longer than 180 days a year on tourist entries should be scrutinized to determine if they are genuine tourists (according to undefined criteria) then we are going to see a lot of arbitrary decisions. It behooves those living here on tourist entries to have a plan B, even if (in practice) you do not need to implement it.

[midas]

9 minutes ago, BritTim said:

 

A good question. He may be the vanguard of something that will become prevalent. He may have upset the immigration official in some way. There may be some profiling going on that immigration use to identify people more likely to be working illegally. It is all so opaque.

 

My own view is that there are signs of a tightening up. I think using tourist entries to live in Thailand is one of the areas receiving scrutiny. As is so often the case, the immigration officials are as confused as we are about what they are supposed to be doing.

 

Thai immigration law seems fairly straightforward until you note that almost everything is subject to being overridden by instructions from the Minister or Director General. When those are forthcoming, they are sometimes public, sometimes not. They are sometimes contradictory.

 

If a blanket ban on anyone staying more than 180 days a year is introduced, it will be announced. If an instruction has gone out that people staying longer than 180 days a year on tourist entries should be scrutinized to determine if they are genuine tourists (according to undefined criteria) then we are going to see a lot of arbitrary decisions. It behooves those living here on tourist entries to have a plan B, even if (in practice) you do not need to implement it.

 

So isn’t it a bit unconscionable for the embassies and consulates to keep taking people’s money for Visa applications in light of these circumstances?

 

 

[itsuptome]

Looking forward to the OP's next update. This is an unusual case and normally would only occur if the IO had strong suspicions the OP was working in Thailand, or something similar. I think his options really depend on the reason given for refusal.

 

Statements which amount to endorsement of immigration's attitude shift toward long stayers on tourist visas are misguided. The Thai government is entirely within its right to discourage this type of activity if they think that's best for the country, but the way they go about it will influence international perception of Thailand as a whole. Publishing clear policies and enforcing them consistently is the correct way. If they begin to sporadically disavow visas issued by their own Foreign Affairs ministry at the border it's not going to make Thailand look good.

 

 

21 minutes ago, claffey said:

It's not that Thailand is not welcoming anymore. They are just bringing their immigration rules in line with some of the more so called 'developed' countries. The country is in the middle of a 'boom' and developing very fast. It's good to see them improving and tightening the laws. In the EU or so called 'developed' countries you couldn't live there indefinitely on tourist visa or without the proper visa. Why should Thailand be any different? They don't rely on foreign investment as much anymore and the Chinese are their main source of foreign tourists....

 

I have to respectfully disagree with all of this. Developed countries normally publish clear visa policies and enforce them consistently, which Thailand has not done in the case of long stayers on tourist visas in Thailand. The country's GDP has been nearly flat since 2014 versus regional and historical growth of 5%+ per year. And Chinese tourism is way down this year after the crackdown on zero-dollar tours (which weren't making Thailand any money anyway).

 

Thailand is definitely less welcoming than it was a few years ago. Additional restrictions have been placed on foreign investment through the BOI, and incentives have been reduced. Work permits for foreigners have become harder to obtain. Education visas are harder to obtain and holders are treated with suspicion. Multi-entry tourist visas are now much harder to obtain. It looks like we are about to see the requirements raised substantially for retirement visas. All this comes in the context of an immigration policy where the path to permanent residence and citizenship is very difficult. In short, the country is closing itself off to non-Thais.

 

Nearly every class of visa has been affected in some way. You can argue that Thailand was too welcoming toward the wrong people in the past, but a lot of the "right" people (read: investors, business owners, skilled professionals, law-abiding visitors) have been affected by these changes as well.

 

The Thai people will benefit more from an open society which values a free exchange of ideas, commerce and people, and is regulated in a fair and consistent manner. Foreigners in Thailand stand to lose a great deal if the current trend of closing off the country continues. It's particularly distressing to me that there's so much infighting between different parts of the expat community, as if the type of visa you hold determines what kind of person you are. All parts of the expat community should be working together to identify concerns and present them to the government in a constructive manner, along with solutions that benefit the Thai people as well as the foreigners who come to visit, invest, and participate in Thai society.

 

[Deepinthailand]

I strongly suspect there may be no update or if there is it will be Imm giving in and letting him in. I also firmly belive!!! no never mind.

[buick]

i know this proper visa thing is a touchy subject.  as i've noted herein, i've spent over 180 days annually in thailand for the last 10 years.  under 50 so can't qualify for retirement visa.  first used a combo of visa exempts and tourist visas.  several years ago i was taken aside at suvarnabhumi and asked a few questions, etc..  the immigration officers told me to use tourist visas.  several posters here seem to think people in my 'shoes' are using a loophole, etc...  i was told to do it this way by thai immigration.  just following their instructions.  in an earlier post, i mentioned i arrived here on nov 1 and had no problems at immigration (came in on a tourist visa already spent over 180 days in thailand this year). 

Edited November 24, 2016 by buick

[mduras01]

One denial is not a precedent, neither is ten. There are 80,000+ international arrivals daily in Thailand. One denial daily is a speck. 0.001% odds if it happened daily. What was he wearing? What was his tone like? Did he look respectable? What did he write on his arrival card in the work/income section? Etc etc.

Too many variables, too much speculation.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[mduras01]

Source please, thanks

Just got mine yesterday. Google it, "new Vietnam visa US". Or just contact any of the online visa services. Cost me $135.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, bark said:

... But my comments were meant for people who go around the system, doing border runs every few months; different countries, land and air; to keep under the Thai immigration radar. Working without permits etc.

Cheers

 

You just described 2 very different things, and one incorrectly.  Obtaining proper tourist visas, "different countries, land and air," is not going "around the system," - it is following the rules of the system explicitly.  It does not keep a foreigner "under Thai immigration radar," as Immigration knows exactly how long each person has been here.  I understand that some folks resent the fact that others live here most of the time on Tourist Visas, but unless and until a law is passed, or ministerial regulation is handed down limiting this option, this is not anything "bad" or "wrong". 

 

"Working without permits" is something else - is illegal beyond any doubt - and should land people in jail (both Thai-employer and foreign-employee).

 

What happened in the case of the OP is in no way an acceptable/civilized way to treat a person with a visa issued by one's consulate, absent new information not (yet) provided - such as: they didn't have 20K baht to show when asked, they confessed they were working here illegally, or they were determined to be a national-security risk / terrorist.

[autoc]

11 hours ago, Jamin123 said:

I would get a ticket to Cambodia rather than go back to Malaysia. I know most people here aren't wild about Cambodia but I was there 2 weeks ago and found really safe, big and comfy private rooms in major guesthouses for  $6-$10 in every big cities. Meals were $1.50-$3 and beer .50 cents. I think there're more boarder crossing options from Cambodia. 

 

 

Yes for sure Cambodia is a better option.

 

Sorry for OP, hope that you will be fine, I know people with dozens of tourists visa over the years...

 

 

 

[Straight8]

7 hours ago, muzmurray said:

 

They do, it is called the "Elite" scheme.

 

OP, at least you'll be stasying in $6 - 10 rooms and drinking 50c beers, something you definitely won't be doing in Thailand. Good luck!!

[darkavatar]

Hello, new to this forum but have been in Thailand doing Tourist Visa's for just over a year now. I had a similar experience at DMK this time (fourth SETV, this one from Bali, three previous from Penang) - senior IO was asked to review my status and he asked me what I was doing in Thailand. I indicated that I study Muay Thai and confirmed that I do not have a job. They let me through this time but it was quite nerve-wracking. To re-iterate, I definitely do not work in Thailand - I saved up for a few years after working in Oil & Gas in order to travel the world.

 

I'm home now temporarily and hoping to obtain an METV - ideally this would circumvent any suspicion, but just in case I will be bringing with me 20K in notes as well as a stamped/official bank statement showing my funds so that I do not have to work. Of course, clean presentation, an outbound ticket, and hotel reservation are paramount. 

[3stan]

Here is my input to this thread:

 

Got back today from a border run to nong khai for visa exempt. Been in Thailand continuously for  2 + years now on a combination of double entry tourist visas (2), single entry (3), and visa exempts (3), all extended. No problem at border coming back in. US passport. So as always, no clear cut rule it seems.

[3stan]

For those (like me) who are trying to maximize their stay in Thailand using tourist visas and visa exempts and that have already been in Thailand for some time, it would seem wise to avoid international flights: being denied entry at a land border is one thing, being detained etc at an airport..an other. Also, it is a good idea to have a plan B and be prepared to being denied. Having proof of funds is also a good idea. 

 

Personally, i dont think i will push my luck any further. Already thankful that all has been smooth and easy so far..(well, those border runs and border hops are actually a pain in the ass, but). Im not working here, im just spending my own money.

 

I will probably go the ed visa route next and try to find a place/way where i dont need to attend class, and not get tested at immigration (i have my limits on what im willing to do to stay here) so maybe just a 3 month thing (ed visa) if one is to be tested after 3 months.

[elviajero]

9 hours ago, paulsingle said:

I'm keen to know whether the 180 day limit applies to a calendar year or any consecutive 12 months ("rolling 12 month petood"). I imagine it's the latter. 

No one knows, but between 2006/08 there was an official published limit on visa exempt entries of 180 days in 6 months that was a rolling count.

 

This 180 day 'rule' seems to be frequently quoted by IO's at various border checkpoints.

Edited November 24, 2016 by elviajero

[elviajero]

8 hours ago, JackThompson said:

To the OP - I would go for the appeal.  They have no legal grounds to deny you if you can show that:

1. You have 20K Baht in Cash on you right now
2. You have some sort of proof you have income from overseas so you are not working

Of course they have, and I am sure that 2. is not top of the list for an IO wanting proof that someone is a tourist and or not working. They are more likely to want to see cash, hotel bookings and return/onward flights.

[lostinisaan]

7 hours ago, BritTim said:

 

A good question. He may be the vanguard of something that will become prevalent. He may have upset the immigration official in some way. There may be some profiling going on that immigration use to identify people more likely to be working illegally. It is all so opaque.

 

My own view is that there are signs of a tightening up. I think using tourist entries to live in Thailand is one of the areas receiving scrutiny. As is so often the case, the immigration officials are as confused as we are about what they are supposed to be doing.

 

Thai immigration law seems fairly straightforward until you note that almost everything is subject to being overridden by instructions from the Minister or Director General. When those are forthcoming, they are sometimes public, sometimes not. They are sometimes contradictory.

 

If a blanket ban on anyone staying more than 180 days a year is introduced, it will be announced. If an instruction has gone out that people staying longer than 180 days a year on tourist entries should be scrutinized to determine if they are genuine tourists (according to undefined criteria) then we are going to see a lot of arbitrary decisions. It behooves those living here on tourist entries to have a plan B, even if (in practice) you do not need to implement it.

 

 

Please see post 69, imagine where else the OP's getting money from, plus not paying 800 baht for meals/cell " he's buying a sandwich, instead" that might have been cheaper, makes all bells ringing very loud.