Thailand's New 10-Year Visas Meet Mixed Reactions

[Dustdevil]

I wonder what about US supplemental Medicare insurance? The supplement I have to normal Medicare covers 80% of overseas medical costs.

[sebastion]

Just buy an elite card. Sounds less of a headache.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

9 minutes ago, sebastion said:

Just buy an elite card. Sounds less of a headache.

 

Or move to a more welcoming country.

[JLCrab]

8 hours ago, farcanell said:

<snip>

you get insurance because of the possibility of an unknown catastrophe, which most people don't suffer, and is why insurance companies make money.

 

everything is a risk.... a gamble... how you choose to hedge your bets is up to you.

Yes -- however anyone it seems who has maintained medical insurance coverage for Thailand for years before and in excess of levels required by this new proposed visa has long been considered by many on these pages a chump.

[dbrenn]

16 hours ago, TechnikaIII said:

My best health insurance policy is the funds in the bank for a short-notice return to Australia, where my Medicare card takes care of hospital bills. And I keep an ambulance subscription up to date. 

 

Don't assume that Australia will help you if you don't live there. Medicare is withdrawn if you are non-resident, and have to re-enrol entirely if absent for more than 5 years, no?

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/medicare-enrolment-returning-residents

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/medicare/medicare-card

To be eligible for Medicare, you must be one of the following:

• an Australian citizen who resides in Australia
• a New Zealand citizen who resides in Australia
• an Australian permanent resident who resides in Australia
• someone who holds a Resident Return visa who resides in Australia
• an applicant for permanent residency status (excluding parent applications) who resides in Australia, and has permission to work or can prove a relationship to an Australian citizen, permanent resident or with a New Zealand citizen who resides in Australia
• a resident of a Reciprocal Health Care Agreement (RHCA) country who is visiting Australia, or
• covered by a Ministerial Order

 

[rodney earl]

To my way of thinking this is just another way to help to fill the coffers here. Except for the health insurance I could put the money in the bank but I have got

No intentions of doing so. I am currently on a retirement visa and I will not be changing.

[nomadicjunkie]

Classic example of:   you can please some of the people most of the time, all of the people none of the time.  This is a step in the right direction.  Income of 100,000 baht is within reason, as is showing proof of health insurance.  Weed out the undesirables, encourage the the people that will not be making headlines in the papers.  My question is regarding multiple exits & entries.

[meatboy]

16 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

"Applicants must not only leave 3 million baht untouched for one year in a time deposit, but they cannot withdraw more than 50 percent, which they must show proof was spent in Thailand for such as medical, property, tuition or similar expenses, (?) according to the resolution. Want to renew it five years later? Visa holders must again show 3 million baht in the bank or an income of at least 100,000 baht per month. "

 

So it is a five year visa, not ten. Typical Thailand.

 

so you can only get all your money back when you leave? must be in the bank year round?

I am an American and I am thinking the exchange rate is only going to get better. And they want me to lock up 3 Mil baht at the current exchange rates and commit that money for 5 years?

 

and paperwork for showing where the money went, like the IRS in the USA? F that.

and they tell you what you can spend your money on?

NIGHTMARE.

 

All this and you still have to do 90 day reporting?

 

" An official in the visa and travel division of the Foreign Affairs Ministry said she did not know anything either."

 

Well they got that part right.

 

 

 

just imagine you have to go into hospital and they now you have 3million baht at their disposal,this would give you more than a headache.

top it up please you only got 50bht.left,and we need to amputate both hands.

[fruitman]

17 hours ago, TechnikaIII said:

Anyone meeting the financial requirements could find a much better place to retire.

Imagine setting one's self up with a residence in beautiful Krabi, only then to find yourself next to a stinking coal fired power station.

A what?

Yep. The illustrious General is killing any media discussion on the matter. He doesn't want there to be anything to upset the Thai people during this time of mourning. How convenient that is for him.

 

Or buy a nice view condo at the Chao Praya to hear loud noisy jetski's and longtailboats all day long....no thanks.

[DavisH]

10 hours ago, Anthony5 said:

 

 

So you claim that any American that has worked for 40 years has a pension of about $3000 a month after taxes and the minimum wage in the US is $1500 a month.

 

You're talking about the US and not Lala land, right?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-14/age-pensions-around-the-world/5388102

 

According to this it is 1000 dollars a month in the USA - unless one has other funds, of course. 

[tartempion]

 
You are aware that those 180 days count for each calendar year?
 
I had an insurance from the same country as you, if I'm not mistaken, which had even no requirement like that  but it was only available to residents.
 
When you are less than 180 days in your country, you are not considered a resident, and my policy was declared void when I had a claim.

Contract states I need to be in country of residence at least 14 days after a long stay.

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Yes -- however anyone it seems who has maintained medical insurance coverage for Thailand for years before and in excess of levels required by this new proposed visa has long been considered by many on these pages a chump.

 

You exaggerate excessively, all that has been said is that there are options other than health insurance and a reserve fund is one of them.

[hobobo]

19 hours ago, alocacoc said:

What concerns him is the requirement that one must have health insurance covering hospital stays and annual coverage worth at least USD$10,000.

“I’m not sure about the compulsory medical insurance, though,” Carter said. “Never encountered a rule like this before.”

Many insurance companies do not cover at the required level, he added.

 

I don't get it. 10000 USD is nothing. I spent 700 000 baht in one week at Bangkok Hospital. Then, my intl. insurance is not limited to a certain amount of money.

 

And, how can someone retire abroad without a health insurance? That's insane.

I agree with everything you say, especially retiring abroad without insurance. However, I do have an international insurance cover that does specify an upper limit of coverage of US2 million a year. Not as good as yours, but still perfectly fine in every country except the US!

[thai3]

1 hour ago, nomadicjunkie said:

Classic example of:   you can please some of the people most of the time, all of the people none of the time.  This is a step in the right direction.  Income of 100,000 baht is within reason, as is showing proof of health insurance.  Weed out the undesirables, encourage the the people that will not be making headlines in the papers.  My question is regarding multiple exits & entries.

 

 

In other words rich in poorer out ! 

[4MyEgo]

9 hours ago, louse1953 said:

You can have private health cover in Australia and not too expensive,considering hospital and surgeons cost.Why are you a non resident,we talked about this before.I did something about it.ATO website is your guide.

 

Hey louse1953 thanks for your all your replies and yes we did cover this under a different topic, however when I weighed everything up and the risk involved to say I was a resident, I decided to go the other way and become a Non resident, why:

 

1) Passport is stamped with an extension of stay for 12 months, with the words "Retirement" on it, soon to be changed to a "Marriage Visa"

2) Kids are going to school here, so try and get out of the clear definition of we are residing here, and there is no way that I can say otherwise 

3) If I kept the property we know 32.5c in the $ would be the tax and full capital gains tax from the date of my departure

4) Difference in the tax from Australian resident to Non resident for the capital gains tax event was minimal, i.e. around $4,000 so I took it on the chin

5) I lose Medicare after 183 days

6) If money is invested in Australia tax would be as follows, 10% withholding tax on term deposits, no tax on fully franked shares and no CGT on shares

7) Old age pension, would have to return for 2 years prior to lodge my claim if I choose that I want to claim it, but I see that as being not feasable

8) Medicare can be reinstated upon return once I provide documents that I prove that I am living in Australia

9) No tax returns required to be lodged

10) I lose my right to vote

 

The way I see it, and is my opinion only, is that the Australian government turns its back on its citizens after paying tax for 40 years plus and penalises you under items 3, 5, 7, 10, however when you weigh up the choices from a $ perspective, they reward you by you not having to pay tax if you invest your money in Australia, apart from term deposits being 10% which is minimal, but blue chip shares are paying between 5% and 6% after tax, so for the purpose of swapping residency from Australian resident to Non resident for tax purposes, Australia is clearly at a loss, not me, i.e. they could have been receiving tax from my rental property, I could be paying the 2% levy surcharge on Medicare and I could continue to vote after all I am an Australian citizen, but no, the Australian government/s have gone the other way, sure, like I said I lose on items 3, 5, 7, and 10, but it is really items 3 and potentially item 7 that I lose out on if I don't return to claim it 2 years prior to the old age pension age, so like its a loss to Australia, but a bigger win for me on item 6 because the dividends are paying far more than any rent I would ever receive, the dividends have no outgoings, vacancy factors, no maintenance costs to consider, and all the capital gains to straight to my pocket, so in a nut shell, its better to be a Non resident in my opinion, the pension is not that big of a catch for me as I am financial enough to live here until I am 101

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, louse1953 said:

Wrong.Prostate cancer treatment last year and straight in as well.

 

As long as you have retained your residency you can still get treatment through medicare

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, louse1953 said:

 But will 4MyEgo Insurance Company be acceptable at Immi?

 

Worst case scenario I will take out health insurance, but as I am married to a Thai and my extension of stay is due February, I will be looking at changing it or applying for a marriage visa, hopefully that will not require health insurance in the future, also going to get the yellow book and Thai ID card, remember I'm Greek, we bend people over, not the other way around 555

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, louse1953 said:

You can have private health cover in Australia and not too expensive,considering hospital and surgeons cost.Why are you a non resident,we talked about this before.I did something about it.ATO website is your guide.

 

I forgot to mention with regard to health insurance in Australia or any other country for that matter, all fine prints say you have to be a resident of that country, not citizen, we makes me feel a little irritated with health insurers, why does it have to be a resident and not a citizen ?

 

It doesn't make sense to me, could it be because they might have to fly you back to your country of birth ?

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, louse1953 said:

You know that's not true,it was explained to you and me on another topic.

 

Louse1953 I do hold grave concerns for you thinking you can retain your residency if you are outside of Australia for more than 183 days, if you want to message me, we can go to a few sites, as I have spent countless hours reading legislation, the ATO contradicts its self many time, but then again they do have a disclaimer at the end of all their topics.

[JackThompson]

12 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

 Only one small thing you may have overlooked Jack, is Medicare doesn't cover you once your out of the country for more than 183 days, so flying back to Oz for medical treatment will be at your expense.

 

I'm not from Oz, so defer to those who are as to the insurance-coverage.  But I believe the hospitals there would always treat the condition for their own citizens, regardless of their ability to pay, leaving it a question of billing / debt to the citizen.  In the context of this discussion, it would prevent Thailand's citizens / hospitals from being on the hook for the cost.

[farcanell]

3 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Yes -- however anyone it seems who has maintained medical insurance coverage for Thailand for years before and in excess of levels required by this new proposed visa has long been considered by many on these pages a chump.

 

I see some referencing that.... I certainly don't mean too, and was always insured thru my employers.

 

having a "safety net" ( insurance) should never make one seem a chump... just cautious.... and as numerous threads on here expound the virtues of caution, like walking on pathways instead of roads, and never letting your kid out of your sight, in case it gets bitten by a rabid dog, that would make them hypocrites. (If those same people are now critising)

 

but you can never please everyone.... so please yourself.... and advise isn't always wise, and can be easily ignored... or not

[farcanell]

3 hours ago, dbrenn said:

 

Don't assume that Australia will help you if you don't live there. Medicare is withdrawn if you are non-resident, and have to re-enrol entirely if absent for more than 5 years, no?

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/medicare-enrolment-returning-residents

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/medicare/medicare-card

To be eligible for Medicare, you must be one of the following:

• an Australian citizen who resides in Australia
• a New Zealand citizen who resides in Australia
• an Australian permanent resident who resides in Australia
• someone who holds a Resident Return visa who resides in Australia
• an applicant for permanent residency status (excluding parent applications) who resides in Australia, and has permission to work or can prove a relationship to an Australian citizen, permanent resident or with a New Zealand citizen who resides in Australia
• a resident of a Reciprocal Health Care Agreement (RHCA) country who is visiting Australia, or
• covered by a Ministerial Order

 

 

Point seven... covered by a ministerial order... will get a citizen repatriated

 

the others exclude you, but rely on interdepartmental co operation... this co operation  is lacking between most departments, and though arguably illegal, can be circumvented.... eg, return home, fill in a form using a relatives address, and you are now domiciled in Australia.... I don't believe there is a waiting list between declaring an Australian address as a domicile and getting benefits.

 

there would be if seeking social security... they are well into interdepartmental cooperation

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

 

You exaggerate excessively, all that has been said is that there are options other than health insurance and a reserve fund is one of them.

Well at least for the proposed 10 year O-A visa they are talking about health insurance -- a reserve in the bank that could be there today but not tomorrow is not health insurance.

[JLCrab]

17 minutes ago, farcanell said:

<snip>

but you can never please everyone.... so please yourself.... and advise isn't always wise, and can be easily ignored... or not

That's OK -- it is routine on here for some to say that they did not buy health insurance and over a course years they have come out "way ahead". Well OK they didn't get  real sick. Those that bought insurance and got real sick also came out way ahead. Just my  luck -- I didn't get real sick.

[farcanell]

24 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Louse1953 I do hold grave concerns for you thinking you can retain your residency if you are outside of Australia for more than 183 days, if you want to message me, we can go to a few sites, as I have spent countless hours reading legislation, the ATO contradicts its self many time, but then again they do have a disclaimer at the end of all their topics.

 

Peasy answer.... check ATO website... insert TFN.... it will tell you wether or not your a resident

 

i still fill out ATO tax forms every year, with a nil amount, citing non residency... and am listed as a non resident.

 

my wife (de facto... different name) hasn't filled out a tax form for yonks.... even before leaving Oz, because she was not working and was lazy... and her TFN still lists her as a resident.

 

having an argument with all these departments, when in a hospital bed in Australia, is OK with me.... if they kick you out of hospital, then you sue the discharging doctor.

 

so many options

[JackThompson]

10 hours ago, louse1953 said:

If you have insurance.I thought we where talking about no insurance in Thailand and jumping on a plane and getting Medicare in Oz.It would cost thousands to stabalize a major medical problem in Thailand,depending on what hospital you get taken too.Some will not accept you if they can't handle the problem.Plus you can't get out til you pay.I know a farang that did a runner cos he couldn't pay.

 

If $10K US is not enough for some conditions (though that was what the proposed visa-scheme suggested), raise it.   The cheapest policy that would keep Thailand "off the hook" for foreigner's medical emergencies is the key. 

[Veritas48]

It is no good trying to figure out the fine details...because they will change anyway at the drop of a hat.Just bear in mind the track record of Thailand in it's dealings with foreigners and rest assured  that NOTHING HAS CHANGED!!!!

[farcanell]

6 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

That's OK -- it is routine on here for some to say that they did not buy health insurance and over a course years they have come out "way ahead". Well OK they didn't get  real sick. Those that bought insurance and got real sick also came out way ahead. Just my  luck -- I didn't get real sick.

 

But still.... good luck in the end

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

That's OK -- it is routine on here for some to say that they did not buy health insurance and over a course years they have come out "way ahead". Well OK they didn't get  real sick. Those that bought insurance and got real sick also came out way ahead. Just my  luck -- I didn't get real sick.

 

Which ever way you look at it crab, you've spent your money on premiums whilst mine remains in the bank collecting (paltry) interest, 5.65 million/15 years and counting, wanna try for 16 years!

 

I forgot to add: beginning in January next year we're going to start splitting our time between the UK and Thailand, that means that since I will once again be UK resident, not only will I be entitled to (free) NHS medical treatment but also able to buy some very reasonably priced annual trip insurance to cover our 184 days spent in Thailand each year.

[4MyEgo]

9 minutes ago, farcanell said:

 

Peasy answer.... check ATO website... insert TFN.... it will tell you wether or not your a resident

 

i still fill out ATO tax forms every year, with a nil amount, citing non residency... and am listed as a non resident.

 

my wife (de facto... different name) hasn't filled out a tax form for yonks.... even before leaving Oz, because she was not working and was lazy... and her TFN still lists her as a resident.

 

having an argument with all these departments, when in a hospital bed in Australia, is OK with me.... if they kick you out of hospital, then you sue the discharging doctor.

 

so many options

 

I take it you are earning an income from Australia or outside Australia ?

 

Copied and pasted straight of the ATO's website:

 

Do you need to lodge a tax return?

You can use our calculator to work out if you need to lodge a tax return.

You do not need to lodge an Australian tax return if you are a foreign resident and your only Australian-sourced income was interest, dividends or royalties from which non-resident withholding tax has been correctly withheld.

Aside from this exception, you must lodge a tax return if any of the following apply:

• Tax was deducted from any payments (such as wages) made to you during the financial year.
• You are an Australian resident and your taxable income was more than the tax-free threshold.
• You are a foreign resident and you earned more than $1 in Australia during the financial year.
• You are leaving Australia permanently or for more than one financial year.