Thailand's New 10-Year Visas Meet Mixed Reactions

[scorecard]

19 hours ago, 4wins said:

If you see it from the Thai perspective I totally understand them. They want the richer middle class, older Asian people to retire here. No poor western guys! Of course also richer western people.

I would have done the same even if I am not wealthy my selfe!

 

About insurances I have done a big compare work about different insurances for expats for our Expat association in Phuket and of course there are problems to get the right one! Many pay for expensive ones that are really bad. I found some that are real good in price and cover but its been a hard work. Unfortunatully they have a lower commission for the agents so no one will recommend themI think everyone living as an expat in Thailand ought to have one. We recuire the same in Sweden when a Thai comes for a visit!

 

If you would get a recommendation just answer me.

 

Yes I would like to get a recommendation or details from you about health insurance.

 

I already sent you a PM (private message). You seem to be new to this board, after you log-in please go the start of the ThaiVisa forum, then look on the right hand side and you will see your own username, near your name is a small envelope and it should have a number (1, 2, 3...). This indicates you have received a PM. Please click on the small envelope to see your PMs. Reply (using further PM) is very easy.

 

Thank you. 

[4MyEgo]

12 minutes ago, farcanell said:

having an argument with all these departments, when in a hospital bed in Australia, is OK with me.... if they kick you out of hospital, then you sue the discharging doctor.

 

so many options

 

I like that option, sue the doctor for the discharge, brilliant I dare say 555

[JLCrab]

13 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

Which ever way you look at it crab, you've spent your money on premiums whilst mine remains in the bank collecting (paltry) interest, 5.65 million/15 years and counting, wanna try for 16 years!

<snip>

This is how I look at it: I didn't know that I was never going to get real sick. Maybe you did. While a very small percentage of persons who buy insurance get real sick such that it was a good deal for them, probably next to all of them never expected to get real sick. So I sleep real easy with my decision. Have a nice time in UK -- Hopefully if you are ever going to get real sick, it will happen there rather in LOS.

 

BTW I have had BUPA Platinum for 12 years and total premiums paid in are less than 1 million baht.

 

Edited November 25, 2016 by JLCrab

[4MyEgo]

9 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

Which ever way you look at it crab, you've spent your money on premiums whilst mine remains in the bank collecting (paltry) interest, 5.65 million/15 years and counting, wanna try for 16 years!

 

I forgot to add: beginning in January next year we're going to start splitting our time between the UK and Thailand, that means that since I will once again be UK resident, not only will I be entitled to (free) NHS medical treatment but also able to buy some very reasonably priced annual trip insurance to cover our 184 days spent in Thailand each year.

 

I would love to know why health insurers back in our country of citizenship do not cover us if we are residents of another country, after all, citizenship is a higher status than resident is it not ?

[dbrenn]

26 minutes ago, farcanell said:

 

Point seven... covered by a ministerial order... will get a citizen repatriated

 

the others exclude you, but rely on interdepartmental co operation... this co operation  is lacking between most departments, and though arguably illegal, can be circumvented.... eg, return home, fill in a form using a relatives address, and you are now domiciled in Australia.... I don't believe there is a waiting list between declaring an Australian address as a domicile and getting benefits.

 

there would be if seeking social security... they are well into interdepartmental cooperation

It's only a matter of time before Medicare eligibility is plugged into passenger movement records, just as many other government agencies already have, and no announcement would be made. As a non resident, you are not entitled to Medicare and your Medicare card might stop working when you need it most. It would be prudent to have a plan B.

[4MyEgo]

Just wondering how many farangs like myself are married to a Thai and are on an extension of stay "Retirement" with the 90 day reporting that haven't considered switching or applying for a marriage visa/extension, doing the yellow book, Thai ID card, that would get rid of having to pay for any health insurance, wouldn't it ?

[4MyEgo]

6 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

It's only a matter of time before Medicare eligibility is plugged into passenger movement records, just as many other government agencies already have, and no announcement would be made. As a non resident, you are not entitled to Medicare and your Medicare card might stop working when you need it most. It would be prudent to have a plan B.

 

Centrelink and the electoral role already are as far as I am aware, as I received an email from both

[chiang mai]

10 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I would love to know why health insurers back in our country of citizenship do not cover us if we are residents of another country, after all, citizenship is a higher status than resident is it not ?

 

The NHS is a residency based system, not a citizen based one. And the way the government looks at things is that residents spend their money in the UK economy, not outside of it. So no, it seems that citizen can be a lower ranking than a resident.

[dbrenn]

4 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Centrelink and the electoral role already are as far as I am aware, as I received an email from both

The ATO also has access to movement records, including each and every one of those arrival and departure cards we fill out,  in which we have to state our intentions regards residency . 

[fvw53]

20 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

 

Sort of like the creation of the EU and then the dismantling of the EU & BREXIT, the election in the US and, of course, a large number of the comments posted on TV. 

 

Please this is NOT the topic now

[farcanell]

9 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

It's only a matter of time before Medicare eligibility is plugged into passenger movement records, just as many other government agencies already have, and no announcement would be made. As a non resident, you are not entitled to Medicare and your Medicare card might stop working when you need it most. It would be prudent to have a plan B.

 

100% correct.... stay vigilant... ego said ( I think it was?), that he was going back and would be trying it on.... feedback on that please, once you return.

 

as I said, I got away with it last year... this year may be different, and as I now have only a small income, I would reinstate my residency, and fill out nil return forms as being below the tax free threshold.

 

on returning, I would apply for a new passport, destroying my old, which has my retirement visas... oops

[4MyEgo]

14 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

The NHS is a residency based system, not a citizen based one. And the way the government looks at things is that residents spend their money in the UK economy, not outside of it. So no, it seems that citizen can be a lower ranking than a resident.

 

its all about the money it's all about the dum dum

 

 

[Krataiboy]

19 hours ago, nightbird said:

I don't see any problem with this visa as long as there are other types of visas offered like the current Retirement visa with annual extension. To exclude those who can't make the financial requirement or who don't want to buy the absurd establishment idea of 'health' insurance, smacks of gov't control and capitalism at it's worst. Many of us use the current private and government hospitals with great success, paying far less annually than a required health insurance premium and far less paper work. This goes for dentistry as well. This plan smacks of elitism and profit making. 

 

 

The ten-year visa seems sensible as an additional option but not as a replacement for the current retirement visa. It is virtually impossible to get affordable health insurance here if you are over 70.In addition and many retirees could not meet the 100,000 baht per month minimum income level.

 

The result of imposing a one-size-fits-all ten-year retirement visa would be the enforced repatriation of thousands of retirees who simply could not meet the conditions - with all that implies for them and, in many instances, Thai families for whom they are the sole provider.

 

My own case is by no means unusual. I retired to Thailand from the 15 years ago, have a wife and five children (four stepchildren and one of my own) and anticipated spending the rest of my life here. Anyone familiar with UK immigration rules will know that the prospects of resettling with them in the old country, even if that was their wish as well as mine, is virtually nil.

 

So for many old-timers like me, it is a case of fingers crossed that  the ten-year visa will be an add-on rather than a replacement for the present system. Since there appears to be no consultation procedure on matters involving us "aliens"one can only hope somebody at Government House reads this Forum and takes into account the hardship which could result before making a decision.

[4MyEgo]

14 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

The ATO also has access to movement records, including each and every one of those arrival and departure cards we fill out,  in which we have to state our intentions regards residency . 

 

Personally I think too many Aussie Xpats are kidding themselves if they think they keep their residency status; if they are out of the country for more than 183 days, the legislation which creates the (law), not the ATO website, clearly states; that an abode could be a park, i.e. a persons usual place of stay, because what one has back in Australia, i.e. a car, a house, family, etc etc is something the ATO will look at and possibly consider, but as far as the legislation is concerned, and from my interpretation is; that some people are going to be in for a rude awakening, suffice to say, unless its in writing from the ATO that clearly states they are an Australian Resident, they are toast ! 

[SaintLouisBlues]

1 minute ago, Krataiboy said:

The ten-year visa seems sensible as an additional option but not as a replacement for the current retirement visa. It is virtually impossible to get affordable health insurance here if you are over 70.In addition and many retirees could not meet the 100,000 baht per month minimum income level.

I assume that "replace" means they won't be offering any new one-year visas, not that those already here on an existing visa with extensions will have to apply for a fresh visa, so your concerns for yourself and those already here would be unjustified. It seems that the Thais have decided that the Malaysian model gives them the opportunity weed out the less affluent retiree, while letting the current visa holders die off over time. The less affluent new applicant will then find Cambodia an "attractive" alternative.

[4MyEgo]

9 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

 

The ten-year visa seems sensible as an additional option but not as a replacement for the current retirement visa. It is virtually impossible to get affordable health insurance here if you are over 70.In addition and many retirees could not meet the 100,000 baht per month minimum income level.

 

The result of imposing a one-size-fits-all ten-year retirement visa would be the enforced repatriation of thousands of retirees who simply could not meet the conditions - with all that implies for them and, in many instances, Thai families for whom they are the sole provider.

 

My own case is by no means unusual. I retired to Thailand from the 15 years ago, have a wife and five children (four stepchildren and one of my own) and anticipated spending the rest of my life here. Anyone familiar with UK immigration rules will know that the prospects of resettling with them in the old country, even if that was their wish as well as mine, is virtually nil.

 

So for many old-timers like me, it is a case of fingers crossed that  the ten-year visa will be an add-on rather than a replacement for the present system. Since there appears to be no consultation procedure on matters involving us "aliens"one can only hope somebody at Government House reads this Forum and takes into account the hardship which could result before making a decision.

 

I am sure the marriage visa wouldn't have the same implications, if your on the retirement extension of stay, perhaps getting the marriage extension of stay might be the way to go, that is what I am looking at now, yellow book and Thai ID card, these will cover hospital, suffice to say, if and when the time arises I would be paying for my own private costs, in a private hospital.

[SaintLouisBlues]

22 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

The ATO also has access to movement records, including each and every one of those arrival and departure cards we fill out,  in which we have to state our intentions regards residency . 

Correct because they can deny exit permission to someone flagged as owing the ATO debt that the ATO is actively chasing for payment. However they only access the departure cards if there's some dispute about intention, so why anyone would ever say they're leaving permanently beats me; their link is to the passport itself as it records travel through immigration checkpoints

[Krataiboy]

3 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I am sure the marriage visa wouldn't have the same implications, if your on the retirement extension of stay, perhaps getting the marriage extension of stay might be the way to go, that is what I am looking at now, yellow book and Thai ID card, these will cover hospital, suffice to say, if and when the time arises I would be paying for my own private costs, in a private hospital.

 

 

Good thinking, batman. That could be an option if push came to shove, though hopefully it won't!

[Henryford]

The guy in the picture is way too old to ever get health insurance.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Henryford

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, Torrens54 said:

There was in fact, a very good Thai Government Health Insurance Scheme for Foreigners, introduced by the Previous Government.

 

Many foreigners, in particular those with a Thai Family, in Good Faith enrolled in the scheme but "Someone" pulled-the pin on it and left us all languishing without any coverage as we had already (again in Good Faith) cancelled our policies with other Insurers. What do we do now if we can't get Insurance because of age and/or existing conditions?

 

Do we just "die in the streets of Thailand" or send our families Bankrupt?

Depends if you love your family or yourself more.

Even if they gave everything till bankruptcy it might still not be enough, so would you expect them to sell everything to save you?

[SaintLouisBlues]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

... so would you expect them to sell everything to save you?

Including their bodies?

[4MyEgo]

20 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

 

Good thinking, batman. That could be an option if push came to shove, though hopefully it won't!

 

Personally I think it is a better option, you go in the house book, yellow for the farang, and you get the ID card, less money has to be shown in the bank annually, but you still have the 90 day reporting, which isn't a real problem, although a pain in the butt, probably the only country in the world, but their rules, so we obide 555

[marcher]

21 hours ago, alocacoc said:

What concerns him is the requirement that one must have health insurance covering hospital stays and annual coverage worth at least USD$10,000.

“I’m not sure about the compulsory medical insurance, though,” Carter said. “Never encountered a rule like this before.”

Many insurance companies do not cover at the required level, he added.

 

I don't get it. 10000 USD is nothing. I spent 700 000 baht in one week at Bangkok Hospital. Then, my intl. insurance is not limited to a certain amount of money.

 

And, how can someone retire abroad without a health insurance? That's insane.

They do not give you insurance if you are 70+. In any case I have never believed in insurance. They are making so much money it must be cheaper to pay your own way. I'm afraid you are the insane one

[SaintLouisBlues]

1 minute ago, marcher said:

They do not give you insurance if you are 70+. In any case I have never believed in insurance. They are making so much money it must be cheaper to pay your own way. I'm afraid you are the insane one

You're confusing the risk profile of each individual with risk profile of the aggregate of individuals. Of course they're making money - they wouldn't be in business otherwise - but that's because across the 100% of their customer base they pay out less in claims than they take in premiums. That's not to say that at the individual level they're always making a profit. You may be 1 of the 49 who make them a loss, rather than 1 of the 51 who make them a profit, in any given year. If that's so it's certainly not cheaper to pay your own way. As well as that, premiums tend to rise with age because the older you get the more likely it is that your body is deteriorating and needs more care. In some 1st World countries it's been shown that 67% of total lifetime medical costs occur in the last (I think) 18 months of someone's life - and that's largely down to our foolish desire to sustain life to the bitter end, whatever the cost

[Old Croc]

The insistence on health insurance, not the financial conditions,  could be the deal breaker for me with this new visa.

I'm 68 with a number of ongoing (permanent) medical issues. I self insure, and the hospital charges me a lot less than if I was a visitor with insurance. I have also purchased a hospital membership plan which gives substantial discounts.

An Insurance company wouldn't want to know me.

 

Unless an enterprising Insurance Company (!) comes up with a cheaper and easier scheme, acceptable to Immigration, I won't be going there. 

 

[SaintLouisBlues]

2 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

I have also purchased a hospital membership plan which gives substantial discounts.

Which hospital as a matter of interest?

[Sparkles]

20 hours ago, alocacoc said:

Might be a problem. But not Thailands problem.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

Well thats where you are totally wrong.Many foreigners ,70 +, have had accidents or taken to emergency with health problems and when discharged couldnt come up with the money then it is THAILAND'S PROBLEM. This has been discussed many times and there was a move to make tourists visas  have compulsory travel insurance inc but no mention of Expats living here.

[Old Croc]

3 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Which hospital as a matter of interest?

Bangkok Phuket.

 

http://www.phukethospital.com/Chivawattana/Prime-Platinum-Card.php

Edited November 25, 2016 by Old Croc

[mki8]

19 hours ago, Kerryd said:

For all the people thinking about moving to Cambodia/Myanmar, neither country has a "long stay visa" according to the research I've just been doing over the last hour.

Cambodia has a 28 day tourist visa which can be extended once and a "business" visa, also short term.

Myanmar has a number of visa categories (transit, tourist, "meditation") but no long stay visas.

 

Unless someone has links to sites other than the Myanmar and/or Cambodian Embassy pages that show other, long term options ?

Last time i checked Cambodia does a 1 year ME business visa that costs about $280/year

no 90 day reports and you can do as you wish work wise with the biz visa

EDIT: they are now enforcing that you must also get a work permit, which costs $100/year

you first need to get the 30 day, then the extension and then apply for 1 year (unless this has changed)

 

a quick search found following:

 

https://www.tripadvisor.com.sg/ShowTopic-g293939-i9162-k8563417-1_year_business_visa_for_tourists-Cambodia.html

Edited November 25, 2016 by mki8

[chiang mai]

To be clear, health insurers in Thailand don't offer health insurance past age 70, many in fact not beyond age 65.

 

And the unpaid Thai hospital bills of impoverished foreigners is what is at the heart of the insurance aspect of this visa, it's not a small amount.