Monks And Tarot Cards

[mapletree]

The Buddha taught that any religion or philosophy must contain the elements of the Noble Eightfold Path if it is to lead to nibhanna.

Chownah

I don't think Buddhism has the monopoly on enlightenment, nor the 8 Fold path the only path to the top.

A deck of cards probably doesn't have these elements.

A deck of cards is just ink printed on paper. Like the Buddhist scriptures - ink on paper.

Like the pictures, the words are symbols.

Yes. There are many ways to walk the path. I learned as much about Buddhism alone in the woods as a wilderness ranger as I have by studying Dhamma formally. There are many, many forms of signposts or aids to travel along the way, and not so narrowly defined as I'm seeing here. At least that is my experience.

[Grover]

The Dali Lama wrote the foreword to a book called "Buddhist Astrology". Seemingly the Dali Lama has no problem with it...

[jumnien]

I have read much literature by Thai and farang monks regarding the use of the Enneagram as well, very interesting. I don't think the Buddha would have enforced mono-dimensionality in thought.

[chownah]

The Buddha taught that any religion or philosophy must contain the elements of the Noble Eightfold Path if it is to lead to nibhanna.

Chownah

I don't think Buddhism has the monopoly on enlightenment, nor the 8 Fold path the only path to the top.

A deck of cards probably doesn't have these elements.

A deck of cards is just ink printed on paper. Like the Buddhist scriptures - ink on paper.

Like the pictures, the words are symbols.

Yes. There are many ways to walk the path. I learned as much about Buddhism alone in the woods as a wilderness ranger as I have by studying Dhamma formally. There are many, many forms of signposts or aids to travel along the way, and not so narrowly defined as I'm seeing here. At least that is my experience.

So, you think that the Buddha defined the path too narrowly?

Chownah

[mapletree]

The Buddha taught that any religion or philosophy must contain the elements of the Noble Eightfold Path if it is to lead to nibhanna.

Chownah

I don't think Buddhism has the monopoly on enlightenment, nor the 8 Fold path the only path to the top.

A deck of cards probably doesn't have these elements.

A deck of cards is just ink printed on paper. Like the Buddhist scriptures - ink on paper.

Like the pictures, the words are symbols.

Yes. There are many ways to walk the path. I learned as much about Buddhism alone in the woods as a wilderness ranger as I have by studying Dhamma formally. There are many, many forms of signposts or aids to travel along the way, and not so narrowly defined as I'm seeing here. At least that is my experience.

So, you think that the Buddha defined the path too narrowly?

Chownah

No, I think that several people on this thread are defining the Buddha's teachings too narrowly--my understanding and direct experience indicate that to me. I'm not saying that I'm right, but that is what I have experienced.

I also feel that comments with the tone of yours--like, "let me catch you out in what you're saying"--are a notable element present in this conversation. Why is that? It feels like there are several folks on this thread trying to show their depth of knowledge in a superior way to others here. It feels distracting and out of keeping with, again, my understanding and direct experience of what the Buddha taught.

I'm not a Buddhist scholar. Most of my understanding comes from direct experience, especially of the natural world, though with some direction from teachers through books and personal guidance. I logged onto this forum because I'm looking for ways to deepen my understanding of Dhamma but am realizing that this forum may be more distracting from the path than helpful in showing me how to follow it.

[chutai]

I logged onto this forum because I'm looking for ways to deepen my understanding of Dhamma but am realizing that this forum may be more distracting from the path than helpful in showing me how to follow it.

In a strange way therein lays a lesson. What your doing is to apportion blame when the fault may be elsewhere. No one man (or forum) is above the Dharma. If you find other points of view a distraction then you, as I, have a long way to yet travel.

[mapletree]

I logged onto this forum because I'm looking for ways to deepen my understanding of Dhamma but am realizing that this forum may be more distracting from the path than helpful in showing me how to follow it.

In a strange way therein lays a lesson. What your doing is to apportion blame when the fault may be elsewhere. No one man (or forum) is above the Dharma. If you find other points of view a distraction then you, as I, have a long way to yet travel.

I didn't say that other points of view are a distraction. Oddly enough, I think what I was trying to say is that some writers rejecting others' views or implying out that THEIR point of view was The Right One seems out of keeping with my understanding of Dhamma--that, as you say, nothing is outside the Dhamma--including Tarot cards. If that sounds like blame to you, then I think there has been a lot of blaming going on here. In fact, your post pointing at my post would be an example of the same. But I really don't know how far you have to travel as you do not know about me. I really can't assess that on-line from a few emails and maybe couldn't even from longer in-person conversations unless your energy were striking--as the Buddha's was reported to be. So good luck to you in your journey.

I'm open to many perspectives, including accepting that some people may find Tarot cards or other tools a way to move forward to higher or deeper levels of awareness.

[AlexLah]

One day all gods came together and had a discussion.

They were discussing the fact that now there were gods of everything, except a god of all gods.

Ok, They said, let us have a god of all gods, but where shall we hide it?

One god said: Let us put it in the deepest ocean, humans will never reach the deepest ocean.

NO: another god said, one day humans will reach the deepest ocean and will find god.

OK, Another god said, we will put it on the highest mountain, humans will never reach the highest mountain.

NO, and another god said, one day humans will reach the highest mountain and will find god.

One other god said: Let us put it in the human being itself, they will never search there....

I hope you understand what I mean by this.

Kind regards,

Alex

[Erica]

It is not unusual for Thai people to ask monks for predictions and advice. It is is your self-righteous sense of indignation which is 'unbuddhist'. Don't worry - the monks were not offended, they only found you ridiculous!

[brahmburgers]

Buddhism in Thailand always has been and always will be heavily stained by local customs. In the bigger picture, all religions take on facets of the culture they get embedded in to. Examples; Tibetan Mahayana buddhism retains much of superstitious Bon beliefs that preceded it, and Christian bible thumpers in Hawaii tolerate most of the residual Polenesian cultural traditions that get mixed in with it. If I were a head monk at a wat here, I would not forbid hocus pocus dabblings like tarot cards, but I would make it crystal clear as to its inherent failings. ....and I would disallow indulgance in such silliness - especially if it clouded the monks' focus on the pure teachings of Buddhism.

[sabaijai]

Buddhism in Thailand always has been and always will be heavily stained by local customs. In the bigger picture, all religions take on facets of the culture they get embedded in to. Examples; Tibetan Mahayana buddhism retains much of superstitious Bon beliefs that preceded it, and Christian bible thumpers in Hawaii tolerate most of the residual Polenesian cultural traditions that get mixed in with it. If I were a head monk at a wat here, I would not forbid hocus pocus dabblings like tarot cards, but I would make it crystal clear as to its inherent failings. ....and I would disallow indulgance in such silliness - especially if it clouded the monks' focus on the pure teachings of Buddhism.

As outlined in the Digha Nikaya, e.g. Samannaphala Sutta (cf The Great Section on Virtue) and Ambattha Sutta, telling fortunes etc is considered wrong livelihood for monks. As such an abbot is duty-bound to ensure such breaches are addressed during the fortnightly patimokkha. Of course many wats and their abbots don't care about this particular offense (not to mention various others), but many do. Wat Umong and Wat Fai Hin, to name two monasteries I frequent in Chiang Mai, do not permit fortune-telling, tarot reading, lottery number predictions, etc.

I'm not sure such practices are not necessarily Thai cultural artefacts either.