What has happened to the high season?

[mcfish]

 

Same in my condo block in Jomtien, it filled up 3-4 weeks ago, all the deck chairs are taken, car park is full, towels on every balcony. There are more baby strollers in the foyer than motorbikes outside. 3 deep at the 7/11 counter. 

 

Its not really high season without a couple of "what happened to high season" posts, same every year

I don't think I've ever seen a thread titled "this high season is booming"

Followed by 22 pages of upbeat posts lol

Im surprised nobody has come along to call us vicious liars and that we are collaborating these stories to try and make pattaya look good

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[SooKee]

 

Its not if they have appeal for you, its simply to demonstrate that theres a lot of money in the Thai market, which asians dont seem to mind spending. 

All this 'tourism is dead and Chaing Mai will pay the price' seems vastly over blown when you see how much business Thais seem to be able to bring. 

Doesn't bother me if they have appeal for me either. The point I'm making is I can't see why it would have appeal for anyone. Given the amount of times I've seen it empty at 8, 9, 10 at night, weekdays and weekends it seems it's a common train of thought. Using that place as an example doesn't demonstrate there's a lot of money in the Thai market at all. No doubting there is. But I've never seen it getting spent there. Oxide, Maldives, Infinity, Mandalay and Ta Wandaeng maybe but Tintin????

It'll be interesting to see how long it survives. Certainly none of the Thais I socialise with have any interest in going there. Thing with these huts in the middle of nowhere, even the slightly better built and designed ones, they're cheap to open, rent and run and some of the owners seem to do it just for something to do. Pretty much the same as the bazillion noodle stalls that line every lane here. As business ventures for attracting cashed up Thais for any more than the odd freak day I'm not so sure. I don't see the fact that they're open as a sign of their being successful.

Anyway. Over and out. Discussing CMs nightlife is getting even more boring than the nightlife itself. If that's possible

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[Peterw42]

29 minutes ago, mcfish said:

I don't think I've ever seen a thread titled "this high season is booming"

Followed by 22 pages of upbeat posts lol

Im surprised nobody has come along to call us vicious liars and that we are collaborating these stories to try and make pattaya look good

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

 

So long as Thai tourism keeps sending the cheques, I will keep making up stories.lol

 

I think what a lot of people dont realize is, that high season actually has the opposite effect on walking st and bar areas. A lot of punters turn up for their yearly 1-2 month stay, and the regular GF leaves the bar and moves in for 1-2 months. They hang the pool, eat local, cruise around on the scooter with the GF etc. They may end up at walking st etc a couple of times, but thats it. I can see 20-30 guys in my condo block doing just that.

So if you base your high season observations on the bar areas, they are often quiet. 

[WinnieTheKhwai]

 

6 hours ago, kraxlhuber said:

Thailand will never return to NORMAL, the military will  reign for may years to come,  

 

They will reign for many years to come, and they have reigned for many years in the past. 

 

It's just the fig-leaf of democratic window-dressing that has fallen off, with all the junk now clearly on display.  And everything is just the same as it's always been.

Edited December 5, 2016 by WinnieTheKhwai

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, SooKee said:

Doesn't bother me if they have appeal for me either. The point I'm making is I can't see why it would have appeal for anyone. Given the amount of times I've seen it empty at 8, 9, 10 at night, weekdays and weekends it seems it's a common train of thought. Using that place as an example doesn't demonstrate there's a lot of money in the Thai market at all. No doubting there is. But I've never seen it getting spent there. Oxide, Maldives, Infinity, Mandalay and Ta Wandaeng maybe but Tintin????

 

Was actually 'the village' just down the road.. and I am also amazed a place on a village back rd, 30 mins outside of downtown, can sell 300 baht beers to Thais.. 

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, SooKee said:

Thing with these huts in the middle of nowhere, even the slightly better built and designed ones, they're cheap to open, rent and run and some of the owners seem to do it just for something to do.

 

 

At a guess.. Based on land size.. Decors etc.. Peters put >30 million baht into the plot the village sits on.. 

 

But if thats your version of cheap.. I guess you run in higher circles than me.. 

[cmsally]

Where it gets more interesting, is if you figure in whether the Thai spending power is dependent on tourism . How many of the "craft beer high rollers"  are directly or indirectly dependent on the tourist dollar.

High spending is not terribly sustainable when you start to look at the wages.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

1 hour ago, cmsally said:

Where it gets more interesting, is if you figure in whether the Thai spending power is dependent on tourism . How many of the "craft beer high rollers"  are directly or indirectly dependent on the tourist dollar.

High spending is not terribly sustainable when you start to look at the wages.

 

Well, yes, 8.5% - 20% (depending on who you believe) of Thai spending power is (in)directly related to tourism.

Edited December 5, 2016 by WinnieTheKhwai

[sanemax]

On 12/4/2016 at 5:10 PM, cyberfarang said:

 

 

    

4 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

All this 'tourism is dead and Chaing Mai will pay the price' seems vastly over blown when you see how much business Thais seem to be able to bring.

 

   Although Thais spending tends to go into different pockets to felang money .

Its the businesses that cater for felangs which will suffer

[WinnieTheKhwai]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

   Although Thais spending tends to go into different pockets to felang money .

Its the businesses that cater for felangs which will suffer

 

Newsflash:  Very few businesses cater to felangs exclusively anymore.  They either went out of business or adapted.

 

And some, after adapting, are more successful now than they have been in a long time..

 

 

And then the most successful businesses understood that you got to go for the Thai market.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2016 by WinnieTheKhwai

[sanemax]

19 minutes ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

 

Newsflash:  Very few businesses cater to felangs exclusively anymore.  They either went out of business or adapted.

 

And some, after adapting, are more successful now than they have been in a long time..

 

 

    That sign is the original sign from Spotlight, or its been there for at least six years , written in Chinese .

   It doesnt make sense that you are using Spotlight as an example of a business that has adapted and become successful, when Spotlight hasnt adapted at all, its always been that sign .

    Theres guest houses that typically cater for foreigners, backpackers , these businesses are suffering, some are still offering off season rates and now its high season , these cannot adapt as there just isnt the demand from Thais for this type of accommodation .

[WinnieTheKhwai]

57 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

    That sign is the original sign from Spotlight, or its been there for at least six years , written in Chinese .

      

 

Well, yes, they added the Chinese language sign a couple years ago.  (2-3 years I guess, when independent Chinese tourists started visiting in numbers.   The point was that Spotlight used to cater to Farang people (and Japanese I guess) but they adapted to support the evolving tourism market.

 

As have the big hotels of course; most of the 5 star one employ native Chinese speaking staff now.

 

Quote

Theres guest houses that typically cater for foreigners, backpackers , these businesses are suffering, some are still offering off season rates and now its high season , these cannot adapt as there just isn't the demand from Thais for this type of accommodation .

 

You get plenty Chinese in the lower end, too.  I know because a friend started a small guesthouse 3 weeks ago with me offering some advice here and there.   And it's about 50-50 in terms of Westerners and Chinese right now.  And Singaporean believe it or not even though it's in the low-end.

 

No complaints about tourists showing up so far, I've actually been a little surprised how quickly it's taking off.    (Surprised because her place isn't fancy, not surprised at the big number of tourist arrivals currently, of course.)

 

And then it's not just staying in a room, they then often book tours and activities too, which makes  some commission money.

Edited December 5, 2016 by WinnieTheKhwai

[SooKee]

 
 
At a guess.. Based on land size.. Decors etc.. Peters put >30 million baht into the plot the village sits on.. 
 
But if thats your version of cheap.. I guess you run in higher circles than me.. 

Wires crossed somehow. I'm talking about Tintin. Tried The Village twice in the last year. Pretty quiet both times. OK if you want to sit out in a big garden I suppose, which from time to time isn't bad at all. Food very so so IMO. But as any kind of regular social haunt? Not enough atmosphere, life, buzz, well, anything really. I'm guessing it does better than Tintin though. That's also the one I'm on about re the 300 baht beers.


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[LivinLOS]

Sure both are what they are, not nightlife at all.. Just examples of places which seem to cater more to asian / Thai customers, who dont seem to mind paying high prices, and want high end imported items. 

 

Its the whole 'the countrys going to hell.. Look at how bad Loy Kroh is' narrative I am disagreeing with... Yes the older expat scene which seems to find 10b increase in domestic beer prices a huge cause for complaint, doesnt look like a segment thats doing well. However the places who are not catering to them at all, who are charging many multiples for much nicer items.. They seem to not only being mushrooming, but doing all right even as they do. 

 

So if the places selling to higher end asians and Thais keep that growth.. why should they care about losing that other, less rewarding market. Looks like ones on a road to nowhere, and I dont think that bothers that many Thais. 

 

Ohh and I agree the villages food isnt up to the prices they charge.. I only go there for the german beers late in the afternoon... Nice guys tho.. 

[LivinLOS]

13 hours ago, sanemax said:

Although Thais spending tends to go into different pockets to felang money .

Its the businesses that cater for felangs which will suffer

 

My point said in far less words..  

[LivinLOS]

13 hours ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

 

Well, yes, 8.5% - 20% (depending on who you believe) of Thai spending power is (in)directly related to tourism.

 

I think its easy to see that in provinces like Phuket and Samui.. International tourism drives everything.. Its the engine that powers so much non tourist activity.. 

 

I dont know how true that is for chiang mai.. Sure its a big part of the economy, but Chiang Mai always felt like a more self sustaining provincial capital.. With a good chunk of domestic tourism too.. A drop of 10 or 20% tourism on Phuket means the whole house of cards would be in trouble, here is a 10 or 20% drop in a smaller part of the overall. 

[SooKee]

Sure both are what they are, not nightlife at all.. Just examples of places which seem to cater more to asian / Thai customers, who dont seem to mind paying high prices, and want high end imported items. 

 

Its the whole 'the countrys going to hell.. Look at how bad Loy Kroh is' narrative I am disagreeing with... Yes the older expat scene which seems to find 10b increase in domestic beer prices a huge cause for complaint, doesnt look like a segment thats doing well. However the places who are not catering to them at all, who are charging many multiples for much nicer items.. They seem to not only being mushrooming, but doing all right even as they do. 

 

So if the places selling to higher end asians and Thais keep that growth.. why should they care about losing that other, less rewarding market. Looks like ones on a road to nowhere, and I dont think that bothers that many Thais. 

 

Ohh and I agree the villages food isnt up to the prices they charge.. I only go there for the german beers late in the afternoon... Nice guys tho.. 

Agree mostly. I'm not in agreement so much with the whole CM is dying thing either. But I do find it dull as hell for nightlife / social scene. It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that potential visitors might think the same. Which might have a partial impact. I wouldn't feature LK in any assessment of CM at all, nightlife or otherwise for the reasons in my first post. It's just too desperate.

I'm just not quite so sure the rural craft beer bars are quite the booming success stories that some might think.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

1 hour ago, SooKee said:

Agree mostly. I'm not in agreement so much with the whole CM is dying thing either. But I do find it dull as hell for nightlife / social scene. It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that potential visitors might think the same. Which might have a partial impact. I wouldn't feature LK in any assessment of CM at all, nightlife or otherwise for the reasons in my first post. It's just too desperate.

I'm just not quite so sure the rural craft beer bars are quite the booming success stories that some might think.

 

I can agree with that.   Although I also know of some people (myself included) who really appreciate the bar scene in Chiang Mai, and for whom it's a major asset to the overall package.   I actually like that it isn't as overt crazy like in Pattaya, Phuket or Bangkok.

 

So while I wouldn't mention it as an actual attraction or reason to visit Chiang Mai, when you ease people into it there is a good chance they'll have a really good and fun time around the bars.  Without it ever becoming the major reason to be there, like it might be in Pattaya.

[piewarmer]

If a bar wants to renew their annual alcohol license in Chiang Mai they now refer to a map and measure 300m from schools before approval.

Its really happening, not just talk anymore.

I suppose slipping a brown envelope under the table would/could cause an error in measurement. 

Unsure if this applies everywhere in LOS, possibly they only concentrate on tourist towns that don't have special zoning.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎04‎.‎12‎.‎2016 at 9:15 PM, LivinLOS said:

 

Just back in from a few hours at 'the village' close to tintins (had a few SUVs parked there and a few tables occupied on my way out) and heres what I mean.. 

 

This place has craft / import bottles starting at 200 ish and going up rapidly.. early on a a couple of non cheap expats (fortuna or pajaro types) were there.. I of course lo-so 'ed it on a scoot.. but then a couple of tables of locals start filling the place.. a few new beemers.. then a new Merc e class coupe.. 

 

By the time I and my cheap mates, barely spending 200 a bottle, left.. Me on my PCX, mates in a lowly ford.. the car park is BMW, an E coupe merc, a mini SUV merc (GLC or whats that new mini soft road thing).. and half thier garden has customers.. None of these folks are concerned about the exchange rate.. 

 

This is a nowhere bar.. in a village back rd.. 15 plus kms from downtown or niman.. Hes got tables of Thais, 150b a salad or chicken wings.. 200 - 400 for mid size dishes.. ordering up a storm.. In the middle of nowhere !!!

 

Theres LOADS of money here is the local market.. I think its great becauses these folks will be demanding of services and quality so will help us all reduce those low end frustrations (at the same place my mate was singing the praises of a local home design interior design crowd) but the rapid pace of change is not going to be helpful to the fixed pension crowd... 

While the local crowd may be going for the expensive beer in some out of the way back road, that does ZERO to attract tourists, and this thread is about tourists, and why they aren't coming.

It's a long time since I was a lad in Singapore and looking for nightlife. There were many fantastic venues in the big hotels, with excellent architecture and ambience. Many a night I spent in an hotel bar listening to great live bands. How many C M hotels have good live bands?

Other than the hotel bars, the place to go in Singapore around midnight was Bugis Street. Always full of people having a drink and a great time. The C M equivalent would be Loi Kroh, but that is a palid dead version of Bugis.

C M just doesn't have anything that appeals to young tourists after dark. They want music and dancing. Thousands turn up every month on Phangan to do that.

If C M has no high season, they need look only to themselves for the answer. Plenty of temples and tours in the day time, sod all after dark.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎06‎.‎12‎.‎2016 at 2:39 PM, WinnieTheKhwai said:

 

I can agree with that.   Although I also know of some people (myself included) who really appreciate the bar scene in Chiang Mai, and for whom it's a major asset to the overall package.   I actually like that it isn't as overt crazy like in Pattaya, Phuket or Bangkok.

 

So while I wouldn't mention it as an actual attraction or reason to visit Chiang Mai, when you ease people into it there is a good chance they'll have a really good and fun time around the bars.  Without it ever becoming the major reason to be there, like it might be in Pattaya.

I'm having a major problem in reading sentences like who really appreciate the bar scene in Chiang Mai, and it's a major asset to the overall package.

I have been in C M for a month, and most nights I walk along Loi Kroh, which has to be the largest bar area in C M. It is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD. It just doesn't know it, yet. For anyone been to Pattaya or Bkk, it's pathetic.

 

I appreciate I actually like that it isn't as overt crazy, but there is a difference between somewhere that is enjoyable, and lacking a pulse, and Loi Kroh is definitely in the latter category.

 

I'm not in C M for the night life, and if that was important to me I'd have stayed in Pattaya, but as the thread is about the high season and the lack thereof, one doesn't have to look far to work out why that might be so.

Tourists want something to do at night, and eating only lasts a short while. A night at the night market would be a couple hours for one night. After that??????? SOD ALL.

[thaibeachlovers]

BTW, while we are on about night time entertainment, I can recommend Promenada for a few hours after dark. I was there recently at sun down, and there was a pretty good band playing outside, between the buildings. I didn't go close enough to see if it was just an outdoor bar, or a restaurant as well. Anyway, if I was with someone it would be a place I'd go in the evening.

There is even a free shuttle from town, till late. Timetable and stops are on the internet.

 

Also a great multiplex and good restaurants like the Dukes are inside.

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have been in C M for a month, and most nights I walk along Loi Kroh, which has to be the largest bar area in C M. It is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD. It just doesn't know it, yet. For anyone been to Pattaya or Bkk, it's pathetic.

 

   It isnt really just a bar area, its a specific area, its an area where people go to pick up prostitutes .

   There are numerous places in CM that have live music , the Zoe corner has four different bars with live music , as do a few other bars along that street .

   Loi Kroh is a bit like Soho in London, once a thriving seedy area  ,.now just a crumbling relic of the past

  

[sanemax]

3 hours ago, piewarmer said:

If a bar wants to renew their annual alcohol license in Chiang Mai they now refer to a map and measure 300m from schools before approval.

Its really happening, not just talk anymore.

I suppose slipping a brown envelope under the table would/could cause an error in measurement. 

 

 

   There is the Metro Technology school just behind Loi Kroh, down Soi 1 . I havent measured the distance from the School to the Loi Kroh bars , but it seems to be within 300 meters and if it indeed is and the rules are enforced, then it would take all the bars out down at the moat end of LK .

   The huge problem with the brown envelope way of avoiding being closed down, is that its so blatantly obvious .

   Anyone can get a map and see how far bars are away from schools and with the present climate of the Army policing the Police , the people who issue bar licences will adhere to the rules  & regulations .

   Also, one of the reasons for the midnight clampdowm in CM is/was pressure from the Monks , Monks have campaigned for a long time to get the bars to either close down to have their opening times limited , which was the initial reason for the bars having to close at 2 AM (a few years ago )

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

While the local crowd may be going for the expensive beer in some out of the way back road, that does ZERO to attract tourists, and this thread is about tourists, and why they aren't coming.

 

Missing the point.. If the asian market can do so well, and be easier to work with, and complain less, while being less price sensitive.. Why exactly should they work harder for less ??

 

Who would want to get into the Loy Kroh or tourist bar trade, with people grumbling over tiny increases in beer costs, when asians queue up to spend 4x the price for imported / status items. 

[bkk6060]

I am here now.  The last time I came was 5 years ago.  This place seems to have changed a lot just in five years.  The traffic is horrendous.  I drove about 30 km out of the city and back to look at a house.  It took almost an hour each way.  Many many people everywhere.  I know it is the holidays, but it was not like this before.   I use to think this could be a place to consider for my old age retirement.  No way I don't care for it much now and the girl scene is practically nill .   I am sure many would not agree, but I much prefer Pattaya to this place.

Even Bangkok would probably be more to my liking.

Edited December 18, 2016 by bkk6060

[mcfish]

I am here now.  The last time I came was 5 years ago.  This place seems to have changed a lot just in five years.  The traffic is horrendous.  I drove about 30 km out of the city and back to look at a house.  It took almost an hour each way.  Many many people everywhere.  I know it is the holidays, but it was not like this before.   I use to think this could be a place to consider for my old age retirement.  No way I don't care for it much now and the girl scene is practically nill .   I am sure many would not agree, but I much prefer Pattaya to this place.
Even Bangkok would probably be more to my liking.

I agree it's Bangkok or pattaya or even better jomtien. I split my time between them

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[elektrified]

Well, a week ago Friday it was like someone flipped a switch and the tourists came....lots of Thais mostly, plenty of Chinese, lots of Burmese, Indian, and other Asian tourists. But also plenty of Western tourists as well. We took someone to the Sunday Night Walking Street Market and wow was it ever packed. All weekend including the holiday on Monday, everywhere was loaded with people, mini-vans and tour buses. Fast forward one week..... there was almost nobody at Thapae this evening. Took me only 5 minutes to go up Thapae, and make a u-turn around the moat. My wife says that the 4 and 5 Star hotels/resorts in the city that she does business with are still reporting only 30-40% occupancy - and almost all Thai or Chinese guests. Most with 100-120 rooms have only 30-40 rooms booked. So at least last weekend, one could see the  tourist market - lots and lots of people dining on Pad Thai and roti on the street - in big numbers and obviously the lower end 1-3 Star hotels were getting the business. There was an excellent show at Thapae last Sunday Night with very good music, dancing, traditional costumes, etc. Overall seems it was a good weekend for those in tourism. But now?

[Bassosa]

For what it's worth, my girlfriend has near 90% occupancy at her place. ~100 serviced apartments. 

 

Nimman area.

 

About 60% farang, 20% Thai and perhaps 10% Chinese/Taiwanese/Malaysian. 

 

If I had a guesthouse somewhere near Thae Pae gate I'd be worried too. Too many of 'm and no differentiation. Seems like a short and erratic season for them too.

 

Banking on Chinese, as many do, would be suicide too. I see Chinese tourism as being fickle. One day there here, the next day they're gone. Wouldn't want to build a longterm business around them.

 

EDIT: Occupancy is currently 84%

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by Bassosa

[LivinLOS]

14 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I am here now.  The last time I came was 5 years ago.  This place seems to have changed a lot just in five years.  The traffic is horrendous.  I drove about 30 km out of the city and back to look at a house.  It took almost an hour each way.  Many many people everywhere.  I know it is the holidays, but it was not like this before.   I use to think this could be a place to consider for my old age retirement.  No way I don't care for it much now and the girl scene is practically nill .

 

If theres one thing thats the number one issue for me for expat life as opposed to tourist life.. Its the traffic.. Its just crazy.. And I am living WAY outside the city already.. Forget taking a truck into town unless it absolutely cannot be avoided. 

 

Every in out road.. every ring rd.. Every route and shortcut.. Just crazy amounts of vehicles at almost any time in the day.. Forget the hang dong rd or mae rim rd at rush hours.. Add in the horrendous me first pushing in and jostling for position at every light and junction.. 

 

They are expanding and building roads as fast as they can.. Dual laning the outer ring.. Dual laning the Canal Rd to Sanpatong bypass.. But the volume of vehicles rising exponentially faster than the roads being made. 

 

I have no idea what the answer is, but its a genuine negative, not only here but almost country wide. A good thing at least the climate lends itself to scooter riding (tho almost cleared out again for the sin of stopping at a light already gone red, pickup behind assumed I would jump it and was racing to follow).. 

 

Anyway, thats my mornings grumble.