Lawsuit filed in Chile against Israeli justices for wall

[webfact]

Lawsuit filed in Chile against Israeli justices for wall

 

SANTIAGO, Chile (AP) — A lawsuit has been filed in Chile against three current or former Israeli Supreme Court justices for endorsing the construction of the West Bank separation barrier and the seizing of goods from Palestinians.

 

Chile's Palestinian Federation filed the war crimes suit Monday against Uzi Vogelman, Neal Hendel and retired justice Asher Grunis, who was president of the court in 2012-15.

 

The group argues that Chilean law's universality principle allows for suits involving crimes against humanity committed in other countries.

 

Israel began building the separation barrier in 2002 in response to a wave of suicide bombings that killed hundreds.

 

Israel says the barrier is needed to keep out Palestinian attackers. Palestinians say the structure is an illegal land grab because it frequently juts into the occupied West Bank.

 

-- © Associated Press 2016-12-01

[ezzra]

Just as well the same can be laid against the Palestinians state sponsored terrorism  inciting riots, killing and burning against humanity....

[impulse]

2 hours ago, ezzra said:

Just as well the same can be laid against the Palestinians state sponsored terrorism  inciting riots, killing and burning against humanity....

 

Chickens and eggs.

 

I hear they're also prosecuting the French resistance for their atrocities against the Germans who found their way to Chile in 1945-47.

 

Anyway, this'll bring those Israelis to their knees...

[ezzra]

"Anyway, this'll bring those Israelis to their knees..."

 

You think??? 2,000 years+ of persecutions throughout  eons by every imaginable armies,

courtiers and empires couldn't and will not bring the Israelis to their knees,

you think those pesky Palestinians will?....

Edited December 1, 2016 by ezzra

[humqdpf]

2 hours ago, ezzra said:

Just as well the same can be laid against the Palestinians state sponsored terrorism  inciting riots, killing and burning against humanity....

Well then, go to Spain or Chile and file suit against them and see where it gets you.

 

But then, no one would consider the Palestinian territories a state. That is something that Israel has prevented. So I would not give much for someone filing suit against what? Most likely it would be the occupying power, Israel.

[geriatrickid]

The Arab plaintiffs forgot one detail: In order for the case to proceed it will need to be based upon  an actual misdeed that is subject to Chilean law.  The Israeli jurists did not commit a crime as they were ruling in civil matter whether or not an action contravened Israeli law.

This is just a  publicity stunt.  It will of course be applauded by those who need their daily dose of  blaming Israel.

[Familyaffairs]

Very funny......Banana Republic antics.

[Ulysses G.]

2 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

The Arab plaintiffs forgot one detail: In order for the case to proceed it will need to be based upon  an actual misdeed that is subject to Chilean law.  The Israeli jurists did not commit a crime as they were ruling in civil matter whether or not an action contravened Israeli law.

This is just a  publicity stunt.  It will of course be applauded by those who need their daily dose of  blaming Israel.

 

Indeed. A daily dose of irrational hatred.

[gamini]

4 hours ago, ezzra said:

Just as well the same can be laid against the Palestinians state sponsored terrorism  inciting riots, killing and burning against humanity....

 

4 hours ago, ezzra said:

Just as well the same can be laid against the Palestinians state sponsored terrorism  inciting riots, killing and burning against humanity....

 

4 hours ago, ezzra said:

Just as well the same can be laid against the Palestinians state sponsored terrorism  inciting riots, killing and burning against humanity....

What

4 hours ago, ezzra said:

Just as well the same can be laid against the Palestinians state sponsored terrorism  inciting riots, killing and burning against humanity....

 

3 hours ago, humqdpf said:

Well then, go to Spain or Chile and file suit against them and see where it gets you.

 

But then, no one would consider the Palestinian territories a state. That is something that Israel has prevented. So I would not give much for someone filing suit against what? Most likely it would be the occupying power, Israel.

What state-sponsored terrorism? The Palestinians are fighting a justified war against the Israeli occupation of their country in the same way that the French resistance was fighting against the German occupation of their country. The Germans call them terrorists the rest of the world call them heroes. The Israelis call the Palestinian freedom fighters terrorists. But they are heroes just like the French resistance.

[RuamRudy]

48 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Indeed. A daily dose of irrational hatred.

 

Rational or irrational, the fact is that despite the massive Israeli propaganda machine, they are failing to win hearts and minds around the world. I do not believe that all those who show disapproval of Israel can be labelled anti-semitic, but rather the majority are probably guided by an innate sense of right and wrong, irrespective of the race or religion of both sides. Until Israel takes serious steps to addressing those (perceived) injustices, they will continue to be criticised and demonised.

[CharlieK]

totally irrelevant, how would Chile enforce any verdict. 

[Morch]

7 hours ago, ezzra said:

Just as well the same can be laid against the Palestinians state sponsored terrorism  inciting riots, killing and burning against humanity....

 

I was under the impression yourself (and other posters) deny Palestine being a a state - so how does "Palestinian state sponsored" come into it? Wouldn't dream to ask how riots can be "against humanity", that's probably expecting too much coherence.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Chickens and eggs.

 

I hear they're also prosecuting the French resistance for their atrocities against the Germans who found their way to Chile in 1945-47.

 

Anyway, this'll bring those Israelis to their knees...

 

Anyway, this'll bring those Israelis to their knees...

 

Never mind the other nonsense, but do tell, how exactly will a frivolous lawsuit filed in a totally irrelevant country bring Israel to its knees?

[Jingthing]

Chile has no jurisdiction. This lawsuit is clearly about internal Chilean politics. They have a very large population of Palestinian-Chileans so that explains it. I hear Chile is a great place to live, indeed a first world nation now. Enjoy. 

[Morch]

7 hours ago, humqdpf said:

Well then, go to Spain or Chile and file suit against them and see where it gets you.

 

But then, no one would consider the Palestinian territories a state. That is something that Israel has prevented. So I would not give much for someone filing suit against what? Most likely it would be the occupying power, Israel.

 

It it was relevant, lawsuits could be lodged against the Palestinian National Authority, the Fatah, the Hamas and related bodies. Wouldn't be a first, even.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, gamini said:

 

 

What

 

What state-sponsored terrorism? The Palestinians are fighting a justified war against the Israeli occupation of their country in the same way that the French resistance was fighting against the German occupation of their country. The Germans call them terrorists the rest of the world call them heroes. The Israelis call the Palestinian freedom fighters terrorists. But they are heroes just like the French resistance.

 

The Palestinian attacks often target civilians, rather than security forces or government installations. In many cases, such attacks are not discriminant as well. Not quite the hallmarks of a freedom fighting movement, seeing as many of these attacks were carried out within Israel proper. So no, not "just like the French resistance".

[Morch]

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Rational or irrational, the fact is that despite the massive Israeli propaganda machine, they are failing to win hearts and minds around the world. I do not believe that all those who show disapproval of Israel can be labelled anti-semitic, but rather the majority are probably guided by an innate sense of right and wrong, irrespective of the race or religion of both sides. Until Israel takes serious steps to addressing those (perceived) injustices, they will continue to be criticised and demonised.

 

As you're so concerned with "facts" how's about not going on about nonsense such as "the massive Israeli propaganda machine"? I get it that it's a useful construct, but doesn't make it any less bogus. If anything, an often heard comments relate to the government's lack of investment in this front, and those efforts taken up being lame.

 

Did anyone but yourself bring antisemitism into the current discussion? Was a labeling as you describe applied?

 

[RuamRudy]

21 minutes ago, Morch said:

If anything, an often heard comments relate to the government's lack of investment in this front, and those efforts taken up being lame.

 

Or maybe it is just that you cannot polish a turd?

 

22 minutes ago, Morch said:

Did anyone but yourself bring antisemitism into the current discussion? Was a labeling as you describe applied?

 

I wrote that in reference to the following quote from Ulysses G:

 

5 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Indeed. A daily dose of irrational hatred.

 

which, while not openly referring to any anti-semitism, certainly had the tone of victim mentality and, as an observer of his posts in general, I foreguessed his intent. If I misjudged that intent, I hold my hands up, guilty as charged.

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Rational or irrational, the fact is that despite the massive Israeli propaganda machine, they are failing to win hearts and minds around the world. I do not believe that all those who show disapproval of Israel can be labelled anti-semitic, but rather the majority are probably guided by an innate sense of right and wrong, irrespective of the race or religion of both sides. Until Israel takes serious steps to addressing those (perceived) injustices, they will continue to be criticised and demonised.

 

"Around the world" - such as? Don't see many governments placing harsh sanctions on Israel. Don't see mass persistent demonstrations against Israel in numerous countries.

 

The only thing I can recall are the moronic Celtic fans who waived Palestinian flags at an Israeli football team playing in Glasgow. But those clowns like to waive the Irish tricolor too. And of course the IRA and PLO where brothers in arms. 

 

Israel is demonized by Muslims, anti-seminites, Catholic extremists and neo-Nazi fascists. Over the years, the Palestinians avoided many opportunities to join real peace talks, preferring a terrorist campaign and demands to Israel's total destruction. That has produced the hardened Israeli responses seen in more recent times.

 

It takes two to tango. 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

41 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The Palestinian attacks often target civilians, rather than security forces or government installations. In many cases, such attacks are not discriminant as well. Not quite the hallmarks of a freedom fighting movement, seeing as many of these attacks were carried out within Israel proper. So no, not "just like the French resistance".

 

Nothing like the French resistance. They fought a brave war against an occupying military. Don't recall them carrying out terrorist attacks on German civilians, women, children, old people. 

 

The various Palestinian groups that carry out terrorist attacks are just that, terrorists. No different to similar groups around the world.

[Morch]

18 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Or maybe it is just that you cannot polish a turd?

 

 

I wrote that in reference to the following quote from Ulysses G:

 

 

which, while not openly referring to any anti-semitism, certainly had the tone of victim mentality and, as an observer of his posts in general, I foreguessed his intent. If I misjudged that intent, I hold my hands up, guilty as charged.

 

And yet this doesn't stop the attempts to polish Palestinian terrorism as "freedom fighting".

 

As for the lame straw man, funny how certain posters tend to "preemptively" cite imaginary anticipated antisemitism arguments, and yet go on about playing the victim.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Morch

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

"Around the world" - such as? Don't see many governments placing harsh sanctions on Israel. Don't see mass persistent demonstrations against Israel in numerous countries.

 

There are few governments in the world who I would look at as being bastions of morality so I am not sure they would be a reliable barometer in this respect. But there are many grassroots campaigns around the globe that strive for the end of perceived injustices, including the plight of the Palestinian people.

 

11 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The only thing I can recall are the moronic Celtic fans who waived Palestinian flags at an Israeli football team playing in Glasgow. But those clowns like to waive the Irish tricolor too. And of course the IRA and PLO where brothers in arms. 

 

I pointed out the last time you made this comment the proud tradition we Scots have of supporting the underdog. I see no reason to object to the tricolour and as for the IRA, lamentable, I agree, much as it is with the idiots who wave the UDF and Red Hand of Ulster flags. Sectarianism is Scotland's national shame, but our common support for the oppressed is something of which we are proud.

 

18 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Israel is demonized by Muslims, anti-seminites, Catholic extremists and neo-Nazi fascists

 

I don't count myself as any of these, and I try not to demonize the country or its people, but rather, object to the policies of its government.

 

I was chastised in post 17 about using hyperbole. Maybe you want to take the same point on board?

[RuamRudy]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

As for the lame straw man, funny how certain posters tend to "preemptively" cite imaginary anticipated antisemitism arguments, and yet go on about playing the victim.

 

Well, if he was referring to anything else, I would be happy to hear it - what do you think was his implying?

[Morch]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Well, if he was referring to anything else, I would be happy to hear it - what do you think was his implying?

 

I think he implied "irrational hatred". Quite a lot of it apparent in related topics.

 

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I think he implied "irrational hatred". Quite a lot of it apparent in related topics.

 

 

I fear that you are leading me into a trap because I know that you are more clever than that, however I will take the bait...

 

UG did not imply 'irrational hatred' - he expressly stated it. My assessment was, based on the previous posts he has made that I have read,  that anti-semitism was at the root of the lawsuit. As I said earlier, if I am wrong, I will be happy to admit it.

 

[Baerboxer]

16 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

There are few governments in the world who I would look at as being bastions of morality so I am not sure they would be a reliable barometer in this respect. But there are many grassroots campaigns around the globe that strive for the end of perceived injustices, including the plight of the Palestinian people.

 

 

I pointed out the last time you made this comment the proud tradition we Scots have of supporting the underdog. I see no reason to object to the tricolour and as for the IRA, lamentable, I agree, much as it is with the idiots who wave the UDF and Red Hand of Ulster flags. Sectarianism is Scotland's national shame, but our common support for the oppressed is something of which we are proud.

 

 

I don't count myself as any of these, and I try not to demonize the country or its people, but rather, object to the policies of its government.

 

I was chastised in post 17 about using hyperbole. Maybe you want to take the same point on board?

 

There are many supporters of Israel too. And organizations that protest injustices against Jews,  other religions, or particular ethnic nationalities and races. The issue is injustice - and injustices are different perspectives for different people. 

No one wants to see people suffer - and no one wants to see people murdered and maimed by terrorists either.

 

Not just Scots - All British support the underdog, as do many Americans, Aussies, Canadians, Irish Indians, Safas and Kiwis IME. But most of those don't support criminal terrorist groups that carry out atrocities to achieve their aims. Those terrorists are far from democratic. Why would someone waive another country's flag if not out of bigoted sectarianism aimed at provocation? Maybe they wish to live in the country whose flag they waive. No one is stopping them. Support the oppressed but not those who commit violence.

 

The government of Israel have one of the hardest jobs going of any government. Their policies and attitudes have been shaped by the actions of others, which have been constant since their founding of the modern state of Israel. That's not to see they are 100% right and that reasonable, responsible people on both sides get squeezed out by those with hard-line extreme views.

 

If you feel your're hyperbolic that's your decision regarding your post. 

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Not just Scots - All British support the underdog, as do many Americans, Aussies, Canadians, Irish Indians, Safas and Kiwis IME. But most of those don't support criminal terrorist groups that carry out atrocities to achieve their aims. Those terrorists are far from democratic. Why would someone waive another country's flag if not out of bigoted sectarianism aimed at provocation? Maybe they wish to live in the country whose flag they waive. No one is stopping them. Support the oppressed but not those who commit violence. 

 

And the origins of Likud are what? It certainly wasn't the Palestinians who bombed the King David Hotel, yet the man who authorised it went on to become Prime Minister of Israel.

 

But two wrongs certainly don't make a right, and I agree with anyone who says that the path to a permanent peace is through the cessation of all violence and the removal of injustices.

[Thorgal]

The Arab plaintiffs forgot one detail: In order for the case to proceed it will need to be based upon  an actual misdeed that is subject to Chilean law.  The Israeli jurists did not commit a crime as they were ruling in civil matter whether or not an action contravened Israeli law.
This is just a  publicity stunt.  It will of course be applauded by those who need their daily dose of  blaming Israel.

http://www.amicc.org/docs/Universal%20Jurisdiction%20Q&A.pdf

Quote from source :

"Universal jurisdiction is a legal doctrine which permits domestic courts to try and punish perpetrators of some crimes so heinous that they amount to crimes against the whole of humanity, regardless of where they occurred or the nationality of the victim or perpetrator.

The crimes subject to universal jurisdiction include piracy, slavery, crimes against humanity, war crimes, torture, and genocide ; Universal jurisdiction is a departure from traditional approaches that require a direct connection between the prosecuting state and the particular crime.

There is no formal legal basis for universal jurisdiction; rather, it represents a customary international norm."


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[Morch]

5 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

http://www.amicc.org/docs/Universal%20Jurisdiction%20Q&A.pdf

Quote from source :

"Universal jurisdiction is a legal doctrine which permits domestic courts to try and punish perpetrators of some crimes so heinous that they amount to crimes against the whole of humanity, regardless of where they occurred or the nationality of the victim or perpetrator.

The crimes subject to universal jurisdiction include piracy, slavery, crimes against humanity, war crimes, torture, and genocide ; Universal jurisdiction is a departure from traditional approaches that require a direct connection between the prosecuting state and the particular crime.

There is no formal legal basis for universal jurisdiction; rather, it represents a customary international norm."


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Which doesn't make the lawsuit mentioned in the OP any less of a publicity stunt.

 

[Thorgal]

 
Which doesn't make the lawsuit mentioned in the OP any less of a publicity stunt.
 

Quote from source ;

"Examples of universal jurisdiction cases include: an extradition request by a Spanish Court seeking to try former Chilean President Augusto Pinochet for crimes such as torture, murder, illegal detention, and forced disappearances (1998); the prosecution and conviction of two Rwandan nuns, Sister Maria Kisito and Sister Gertrude, by a court in Belgium for war crimes committed during the 1994 Rwandan genocide (2001); the prosecution and conviction of Nikola Jorgic, a former leader of a paramilitary Serb group, and Novislav Djajic, a Serbian soldier, by German courts for acts of genocide committed in Bosnia and Herzegovina (1997); and the investigation and indictment of former president of Chad Hissène Habré by a Belgium court for crimes against humanity, torture, war crimes and other human rights violations committed during his presidency in Chad (2005)."


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