UK Pensioner returning to the UK - do they get ALL the annual increases that have been frozen over the years?

[Mobi]

I know it seems pretty obvious, but as the topic says, will a non-resident pensioner, returning to the UK after many years overseas, get their pension fully upgraded for all the years they have been away?

 

Or will they just get the latest annual increment?

 

If they have been away for 5 years or more, this could amount to quite a tidy increase if all the annual increases are applied.

 

I have Googled this quite extensively but can't find a definitive answer.

 

Anyone?

 

Thanks

 

Mobi

 

[chiang mai]

All of them.

[emilymat]

As indicated above by Changmai, your pension will be uprated to where it should be - as though you had not been away. However, you will get no back-pay obviously and the uprating will take a couple of months, but you would get the back pay for the time between notification of you return and the actual new amount being paid.

 

Hope this is helpful. I'm in the UK and did exactly what you were referring too.

[lungbing]

You also get the updated rate for any time you are there on holiday, if you give Newcastle the dates you are in the country. Of course it reverts to the old rate when you leave.

[ukrules]

Does anyone know how long do you have to stay there to keep the new higher rate before leaving the country 'permanently' again ?

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by ukrules

[rockingrobin]

12 hours ago, ukrules said:

Does anyone know how long do you have to stay there to keep the new higher rate before leaving the country 'permanently' again ?

 

I have not personally looked at the relevant UK legislation , however the following link albeit the info is somewhat old,  may give a insight into the process. Go to section 9 moving back to Britain

http://www.britishpensions.org.au/pension-guidelines.htm

 

 

[Mobi]

 

Thank you for the information - it is much appreciated.

As far as pension increases are concerned , it seems that you just have to be physically in the UK to qualify, but as a follow-up question, may ask those of you who have returned to the UK, what did you have to do to re-establish yourself as a UK resident?

What steps did you take to establish your entitlement to free treatment in the NHS, and to qualify for other social services such as income support, accommodation etc. and crucially,  how long did it take? 

 

Thanks

[lungbing]

I suspect, but don't know for certain, that it's the intention to stay that counts.  If you register with a doctor and dentist, rent/own a house, utility bill, voting register etc.  ie put down roots.  Of course if after a year you really can't stand it then you can leave with the new up-rated pension.

 

Now I await being shot down.

[emilymat]

5 hours ago, lungbing said:

I suspect, but don't know for certain, that it's the intention to stay that counts.  If you register with a doctor and dentist, rent/own a house, utility bill, voting register etc.  ie put down roots.  Of course if after a year you really can't stand it then you can leave with the new up-rated pension.

 

Now I await being shot down.

No shoot down. Your analysis is pretty much on the ball.

[chiang mai]

13 hours ago, Mobi said:

 

Thank you for the information - it is much appreciated.

As far as pension increases are concerned , it seems that you just have to be physically in the UK to qualify, but as a follow-up question, may ask those of you who have returned to the UK, what did you have to do to re-establish yourself as a UK resident?

What steps did you take to establish your entitlement to free treatment in the NHS, and to qualify for other social services such as income support, accommodation etc. and crucially,  how long did it take? 

 

Thanks

 

The following is a must read:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-overseas-visitors-hospital-charging-regulations

 

Citizens Advice on the other hand is a little more helpful on this subject and their input is here:

 

  https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/healthcare/help-with-health-costs/nhs-charges-for-people-from-abroad/

 

In answer to your question, you will be eligible for free treatment once again, somewhere between day one and day 182, based on what you can prove!

 

Sorry I can't be more helpful than that.

 

 

 

 

[chiang mai]

38 minutes ago, emilymat said:

No shoot down. Your analysis is pretty much on the ball.

 

I agree but I think that's a card you can play probably only once, just like getting free NHS care if you have returned "permanently" and then change your mind, I think they would get wise to it after a while and refuse your request.

[lungbing]

Then wait until the pension increases make it worth while to stay long enough to claim it then leave again.  But with the cost of flights and cost of living for a year in the UK, you would  need a large increase in your pension to make it worth while.  certainly the few quid I've missed out on for the past four years wouldn't make it a viable proposition.

[Mobi]

On 03/12/2016 at 2:00 AM, chiang mai said:

 

The following is a must read:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-overseas-visitors-hospital-charging-regulations

 

Citizens Advice on the other hand is a little more helpful on this subject and their input is here:

 

  https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/healthcare/help-with-health-costs/nhs-charges-for-people-from-abroad/

 

In answer to your question, you will be eligible for free treatment once again, somewhere between day one and day 182, based on what you can prove!

 

Sorry I can't be more helpful than that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, Thank you. I guess the following extract says it all:

 

 

"The longer a person has been living in the UK the stronger the indication they are
ordinarily resident here. A period of 6 months is only a rule of thumb and should
be used with caution. It is important to note that a person can be ordinarily
resident from the first day they arrive in the UK if they have genuinely come to
settle for the time being."

 

Age Uk has issued a very comprehensive and excellent fact sheet on this subject for those pensioners thinking of returning to the UK.

 

https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiko92O4dnQAhXHQI8KHVdsCNUQFggsMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ageuk.org.uk%2FDocuments%2FEN-GB%2FFactsheets%2FFS25_Returning_from_abroad_fcs.pdf%3Fdtrk%3Dtrue&usg=AFQjCNElvIEB1nTmLldRogRA3rK80Lj8Hw&sig2=OR92PM_l-4jggG5XCjs-uA&bvm=bv.139782543,d.c2I

 

 

 

 

 

[Mobi]

16 hours ago, lungbing said:

Then wait until the pension increases make it worth while to stay long enough to claim it then leave again.  But with the cost of flights and cost of living for a year in the UK, you would  need a large increase in your pension to make it worth while.  certainly the few quid I've missed out on for the past four years wouldn't make it a viable proposition.

 

 

It would depend on an individual's circumstances. If for example, he regularly flew to the UK to spend time with his family and stayed with his family for a month or so, it might pay him to extend his stay and re-establish permanent residence. Then what is to stop him taking a long holiday abroad?

 

I have calculated that in the past few years my pension would have increased by well over £100 per month during the past five years - that pays for an airfare or two. 

[emilymat]

9 hours ago, Mobi said:

 

It would depend on an individual's circumstances. If for example, he regularly flew to the UK to spend time with his family and stayed with his family for a month or so, it might pay him to extend his stay and re-establish permanent residence. Then what is to stop him taking a long holiday abroad?

 

I have calculated that in the past few years my pension would have increased by well over £100 per month during the past five years - that pays for an airfare or two. 

The 'triple lock' introduced by the government some years ago is going to be abolished in 2020, should the Tories win the next election. This system has ensured a minimum increase of 2.5 % every year.  It is now viewed as 'unfair' that pensioners are protected whilst working people are seeing their take home pay value decreasing.

[al007]

Of course if you leave and go to live in the Philippines you will get the increases, and keep them

[chiang mai]

For the OP:

 

I just spoke with the International Pensions service in the UK and tried to understand if my pension would be uprated when I return at the end of January, my intention is to spend six months in the UK each year and six months in Thailand.

 

What they said was that the important part of their process is to understand what my intention is regarding my return to the UK, they don't care about my plans later in the year, all they care about is that I am either intending to return permanently or not and their decision to uprate permanently will be based on that decision.

[naboo]

190 days makes you resident.

 

Quite a nice lifstyle, 6 months there, 6 months here. Chiang Mai until the end of February, a month elsewhere while there is pollution here, back to the UK just before Songkran (or after if you enjoy it), back here mid-October for the start of the cool season.

 

I have my plans to do just that from age 50, they'll be needing some summer workers on the farms so a bit of active outdoor work for a few years too.

[emilymat]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

For the OP:

 

I just spoke with the International Pensions service in the UK and tried to understand if my pension would be uprated when I return at the end of January, my intention is to spend six months in the UK each year and six months in Thailand.

 

What they said was that the important part of their process is to understand what my intention is regarding my return to the UK, they don't care about my plans later in the year, all they care about is that I am either intending to return permanently or not and their decision to uprate permanently will be based on that decision.

I can absolutely confirm that. 

[Mobi]

 

It is all becoming pretty clear now.

 

It seems that the criteria for qualifying for the state pension upgrade are less severe than the criteria for qualifying as a resident for NHS purposes. After all, you only have to be physically in the country to get an increased pension, albeit temporary.

 

There is one point about the pension that I still haven't 100% nailed.

 

Being of a certain age, I have what they call a 'basic state pension', plus an additional amount that they call 'additional state pension' which in my case tops up my basic  pension by over 50%. The amounts are lumped together for the purposes of payment.

 

Can anyone confirm that the amount of my 'additional state pension' will also be upgraded along with the basic state pension?

 

I have looked at all the publications but can't find anything that specifically refers to this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[steve187]

triple lock yearly increases only apply to the basic part of the pension. reading the attached link , i read it as extra pension gets the cpi rate  -  link - http://paullewismoney.blogspot.com/2015/10/the-uprating-of-benefits-april-2016.html

[chiang mai]

I think "intent" is the key for both pension increases and NHS eligibility and that it may also be the unwanted downside of your status regarding taxation. Despite there being a Statutory Residency Test (SRT) to determine residency for tax purposes, I suspect a person will become immediately eligible for tax from day one if the intent is to remain in the UK, unsure.

 

Also, SERPS is subject to CPI and not the triple lock.

Edited December 6, 2016 by chiang mai

[Mobi]

 

 

I'm not bothered about paying tax – I should be so lucky…

 

 

Thanks for the clarification on SERPs etc. I have now found a couple of references that confirm this.

 

 

Even calculating the SERPS etc. part of my pension using annual CPI, I would still be over £1,500 per annum better off if I was in the UK.

 

Edited December 6, 2016 by Mobi

[steve187]

that with bus pass, council tax rebate, winter allowance, mobility allowance if applicable, must be more that slip my mind.

 

so would it work out as CPI/RPI up until 2010/11, then triple lock on basic and cpi on serps from 2010/11

Edited December 6, 2016 by steve187

[al007]

The winter fuel allowance is based on where you are on a specific date, I am not sure but I think it is a date in October so make sure you are in the Uk on that date and claim it, you get it even if you are away most of the winter, its not a mammoth sum but buys a few dinners in Thailand!

[theoldgit]

12 hours ago, al007 said:

The winter fuel allowance is based on where you are on a specific date, I am not sure but I think it is a date in October so make sure you are in the Uk on that date and claim it, you get it even if you are away most of the winter, its not a mammoth sum but buys a few dinners in Thailand!

 

You need to have been resident in the UK, or certain countries in the EU, during the qualifying week of 19 to 25 September 2016.