Controversial Pattaya development gets go ahead

[webfact]

High-rise developer claims compliance with orders 
By   THE NATION 

 

BALI  HAI Company, developer of the Waterfront Suites, has complied with all laws and regulations and vows good cooperation with the local community to make the Waterfront Pattaya a new city landmark, company director Lior Windenfeld said.

 

Construction of the project has resumed after the City of Pattaya temporarily halted it pending resubmission of the environment impact assessment (EIA) report. 

 

As ordered by the city, the height of the building is being reduced from the 53 floors originally planned to 45 storeys, parking facilities are to be improved, and construction materials from the demolished upper floors are to be brought safely to the |ground without damaging the environment. 

 

Full story: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/business/property/30301552

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2016-12-09

[Basil B]

It will be interesting to see if they actually comply...

 

They should have band all work except the demolition of the top 8 stories until it has been completed.

[JSixpack]

6 minutes ago, Basil B said:

It will be interesting to see if they actually comply...

 

Well, we always have very shrewd skeptics voicing doubt about compliance. So it was with the demolition order for the Boutique Hotel on Soi 17: plenty of know-it-alls and blowhards insisting it'd never happen; the mighty TVF Tea Money Chorus assembled and gave a full-throated chant. One member bet his left nut; since then, he's ignored my inquiries about the missing nut (as TVF members tend to do when caught out) and even made a few more bets.

 

Quote

They should have band all work except the demolition of the top 8 stories until it has been completed.

 

No. And the new work can be used as further leverage if necessary.

 

[champers]

Bit sad that they have the go-ahead. It's a blight on the skyline. Others will surely follow.

[Pattaya46]

3 hours ago, champers said:

Bit sad that they have the go-ahead. It's a blight on the skyline.

Others will surely follow.

 

Where? Not near the Waterfront.

All lands around are public lands and the hill itself is a National Park...

[The manic]

A big concrete turd ruining the horizon! Time for the authorities to drive some poor vendors of the street . 

[vision2014]

I am a buyer of a unit at the Waterfront Suites and Residences and obviously hope City Hall will issue a construction permit imminently.

 

However,  I think it is premature for the buyers to celebrate.

 

The Nation article quotes Lior Windenfield  (Company Director of Bali Hai Co.) who states that the revised plan will "comply with all laws and regulations".  The KEY POINT is the news article does NOT include comments from City Hall or the ONEP (Office of Natural Resources and Environmental Planning and Policy) validating/confirming the veracity of Mr. Windenfield's comments.  I appreciate I am living in Thailand and "western business practices" are rarely adhered to, but I would have thought The Nation would have contacted City Hall and the ONEP prior to printing  a story on such a controversial topic.  In the event City Hall and the ONEP refused to comment, this should have been included in the news article.  The Nation made a second error and says "construction has resumed" which is unequivocally a false statement. 

 

In summary,  there is no evidence that City Hall has agreed to issue a construction permit nor is there confirmation that the ONEP has approved the revised EIA.

 

The most recent factual information available is on November 9,  Bali Hai Co. submitted revised architectural, structural, building services drawings and a modified EIA report to City Hall officials.  Bali Hai co. informed the buyers that the revised plans addressed  City Hall's  building height and parking capacity concerns (and included a plan for removal of construction material from the five floors to be demolished).   Since November 9, the buyers have not received updates from Bal Hai Co. which I think is a smart strategy if Bali Hai and City Hall are in the process of negotiating an agreement.

 

And just to add to the confusion and complexity, on another Thai Visa forum topic titled "Interior Ministry Orders Further on Waterfront Residence in South Pattaya",  there are posts indicating that the design of the building fundamentally breeches the original EIA application and City Hall is demanding the hotel be eliminated and the total number of units in the two towers be reduced from 420 to 304. 

 

Bottom line is I am used to waiting. It has been 28 months since construction was "temporarily halted".  Life goes on.

 

 

[champers]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

 

Where? Not near the Waterfront.

All lands around are public lands and the hill itself is a National Park...

Which begs the question: How did this one get built? I hope you are right and I am wrong.

[Basil B]

1 hour ago, vision2014 said:

Bottom line is I am used to waiting. It has been 28 months since construction was "temporarily halted".  Life goes on.

 

I am sure you will not have to wait as long as those who bought off plan for Ocean1, latest completion date is 2019(estimated)... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_1_Tower

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

Well, we always have very shrewd skeptics voicing doubt about compliance. So it was with the demolition order for the Boutique Hotel on Soi 17: plenty of know-it-alls and blowhards insisting it'd never happen; the mighty TVF Tea Money Chorus assembled and gave a full-throated chant. One member bet his left nut; since then, he's ignored my inquiries about the missing nut (as TVF members tend to do when caught out) and even made a few more bets.

 

 

No. And the new work can be used as further leverage if necessary.

 

Yes wonderful, and the boat parking got sorted out, but we still have the 101 businesses over the sea making lots of money each night.

[JSixpack]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Yes wonderful, and the boat parking got sorted out, but we still have the 101 businesses over the sea making lots of money each night.

 

Making lots of money each night sounds great for everybody. Not a fire hazard (any more than the others); and they aren't blocking the view enjoyed by Prince Chumphon Khet Udomsak. Different situation entirely. Actually nobody hates the 101 though TVF Posters love using them for finger pointing and phony righteousness.

 

In fact, as I noted earlier, the mighty TVF Pointing Finger Of Justice has now turned from the deflated jet ski scam to the Walking St. businesses. We may expect some self-righteous fingering in every thread now. And whenever "The Authorities" try to right some other wrong (only for brown envelopes, heh heh), the Finger will simply sneer and point to the real issue.

Edited December 10, 2016 by JSixpack

[newnative]

Hope the news is correct--terrible having it sit half-finished.  Maybe that upcoming 2017 Navy Regatta thing was a spur to get the project going again if the news is true.  I know the building is unpopular with some but I think the architectural design is excellent, which is a rare thing in Pattaya.   Once it is finished it will quickly become Pattaya's landmark building, and that's a good thing.

[Rimmer]

An inflammatory post has been removed

[newnative]

4 minutes ago, The manic said:

Landmark? A stain on the horizon more like. I hope every philistine who bought into this dreadful, ugly. crude vanity project loses everything.

Yes, landmark.  History shows us that many buildings/structures that were initially disliked by some of the populace in time took their place as landmarks.  Some that come to mind are the Twin Towers, the AT&T Building by Philip Johnson,  Pompidou Centre,  the Eiffel Tower, Transamerica Building in San Francisco, the Portland Building by Michael Graves, the 'Gherkin' Building, the Guggenheim Museum by Wright, Seattle Space Needle, etc., etc.   In time, if completed, Waterfront will be Pattaya's landmark building, and rightly so.  Nothing else comes close.  Pity they are apparently requiring the height to be lowered--it's perfect as it is.

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

Making lots of money each night sounds great for everybody. Not a fire hazard (any more than the others); and they aren't blocking the view enjoyed by Prince Chumphon Khet Udomsak. Different situation entirely. Actually nobody hates the 101 though TVF Posters love using them for finger pointing and phony righteousness.

 

In fact, as I noted earlier, the mighty TVF Pointing Finger Of Justice has now turned from the deflated jet ski scam to the Walking St. businesses. We may expect some self-righteous fingering in every thread now. And whenever "The Authorities" try to right some other wrong (only for brown envelopes, heh heh), the Finger will simply sneer and point to the real issue.

They are either illegal or legal, they are built over the sea and beach.

Simply put, we have a way to go but thankfully moving in the correct direction, selectively.

I do hope those who bought off plan at the Waterfront upper floors are treated justly.

As to 'not a fire hazard' in the 101 businesses, another whole separate issue. To be addressed after a death or two.

 

I hope those who bought off plan

 

[JSixpack]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

They are either illegal or legal, they are built over the sea and beach.

Simply put, we have a way to go but thankfully moving in the correct direction, selectively.

 

Simply put, they can given or sold a formal waiver w/ lease payments. But then so many of our members will then lose the will to live; and mighty TVF Pointing Finger Of Justice will have to turn to . . . . ah, so many targets . . . .

 

Quote

As to 'not a fire hazard' in the 101 businesses, another whole separate issue. To be addressed after a death or two.

 

Just In Case Fallacy

 

[NCC1701A]

The "Fountainhead" comes to mind. Leave the original design alone.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fountainhead

 

 

[Jack100]

Newnative  , also Centre Point in Central  London  , castigated by many  when built  ( mostly for being kept deliberately  empty  by the developer -  for more profit  )  but now has Grade listed status .

 

Bit hard to see this happening in this case , frankly ,  but you never know .!

 

 

[paulinbkk111]

Think its ugly, but at least its being different and may become an icon.

 

Will be full of Chinese owners and tenants, so cant wait to see the laundry hanging on the railings, no maintenance

[pattayadude]

On 12/9/2016 at 1:02 PM, webfact said:

Construction of the project has resumed after the City of Pattaya temporarily halted it

Wrong!Construction has never resumed since it was halted in September 2014!

 

On 12/9/2016 at 1:02 PM, webfact said:

As ordered by the city, the height of the building is being reduced from the 53 floors originally planned to 45 storeys

as ordered?

Edited December 12, 2016 by pattayadude

[The manic]

On 10/12/2016 at 8:41 PM, newnative said:

Yes, landmark.  History shows us that many buildings/structures that were initially disliked by some of the populace in time took their place as landmarks.  Some that come to mind are the Twin Towers, the AT&T Building by Philip Johnson,  Pompidou Centre,  the Eiffel Tower, Transamerica Building in San Francisco, the Portland Building by Michael Graves, the 'Gherkin' Building, the Guggenheim Museum by Wright, Seattle Space Needle, etc., etc.   In time, if completed, Waterfront will be Pattaya's landmark building, and rightly so.  Nothing else comes close.  Pity they are apparently requiring the height to be lowered--it's perfect as it is.

To compare those esteemed buildings with that breeze block edifice is silly.  It's a dreadful blot on the skyline and is a manifestation of sheer arrogance of people who wish to steal the skyline off the majority of the people. We who remember the ruination of beach fronts in parts of Europe in the 60s and 70s remember how legislation and intervention saved miles of coastline.  This development is architectural garbage and cultural vandalism.  A monument to corrupting, stupidity, arrogance and conspicuous consumption. It's spit in the face of the common people who can barely get permission to set up a street stall. I think it is already cursed and hope the resident's lives will as blighted as the area they have polluted with this monstrosity..

[SidJames]

Well said Manic!!!

Your statement should be translated into Thai & put on the national news imo.

The monstrosity that is being built on Bang Saray beach is equally as bad if not worse by comparison to the existing single story buildings all along that beach road excepting the old Temple

[newnative]

1 hour ago, The manic said:

To compare those esteemed buildings with that breeze block edifice is silly.  It's a dreadful blot on the skyline and is a manifestation of sheer arrogance of people who wish to steal the skyline off the majority of the people. We who remember the ruination of beach fronts in parts of Europe in the 60s and 70s remember how legislation and intervention saved miles of coastline.  This development is architectural garbage and cultural vandalism.  A monument to corrupting, stupidity, arrogance and conspicuous consumption. It's spit in the face of the common people who can barely get permission to set up a street stall. I think it is already cursed and hope the resident's lives will as blighted as the area they have polluted with this monstrosity..

It's likely what you wrote was also said, in various ways,  about all the buildings I mentioned, especially the 'blot on the skyline'.  I never said Waterfront was the equal of the buildings I mentioned--I used those examples to point out that lots of buildings were controversial when first built or proposed.  I did say Waterfront, if built, will be Pattaya's landmark building and I stick by that--but remember we grade on a curve here!   If it ever gets built, let's revisit the issue in 5 or 6 years and see how it's settled in.  

[champers]

In 5 or 6 years you may not be able to even see it. It could be surrounded and obscured by other skyscrapers.

[pattayadude]

13 hours ago, champers said:

In 5 or 6 years you may not be able to even see it. It could be surrounded and obscured by other skyscrapers.

Every skyscraper gets somewhat blocked by another skyscraper,given enough time.This happens in 3rd,2nd and even 1st world countries with no exception. Your happiness is shadowed by the next sorrow and so on...if you know what I mean...

For the Waterfront to be blocked, a land reclamation has to happen

Will it happen in 5 or 6 years? not likely and probably not in our lifetime.

 

 

[NanLaew]

On 12/12/2016 at 10:51 AM, pattayadude said:

Wrong!Construction has never resumed since it was halted in September 2014!

 

....

Correct. Construction, be it the start of any partial demolition or completion is still quite a long way off. No way there will be anything presentable for the navy thingamabob next year.

[pattayadude]

36 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Correct. Construction, be it the start of any partial demolition or completion is still quite a long way off. No way there will be anything presentable for the navy thingamabob next year.

presentable is subjective.however top  5 floors can easily be brought down within 5 months and all remaining front windows can be installed within 3-4 months before the navy parade IF (big IF) the developer manages to get demolition and construction permits before February IMO

Edited December 15, 2016 by pattayadude

[NanLaew]

On 12/15/2016 at 7:54 AM, pattayadude said:

presentable is subjective.however top  5 floors can easily be brought down within 5 months and all remaining front windows can be installed within 3-4 months before the navy parade IF (big IF) the developer manages to get demolition and construction permits before February IMO

 

I agree, anything can be done quickly, especially in Thailand but where structural safety and integrity may be questionable in proper construction, fast-tracking this edifices completion is dangerous. There's been no major work carried out for over 2 years, probably no maintenance either. There's loads of unsealed and otherwise incomplete construction that has been exposed to the elements including the corrosive sea air.

Edited December 20, 2016 by NanLaew

[pattayadude]

On 12/21/2016 at 1:22 AM, NanLaew said:

 

I agree, anything can be done quickly, especially in Thailand but where structural safety and integrity may be questionable in proper construction, fast-tracking this edifices completion is dangerous. There's been no major work carried out for over 2 years, probably no maintenance either. There's loads of unsealed and otherwise incomplete construction that has been exposed to the elements including the corrosive sea air.

concrete can last many many years even exposed to elements.Moreover, this particular project was topped off therefore  re-bars were not exposed.Even if they were, some rust proof paint can protect them for years or a decade.

I know of  a few projects which had been halted  for several years, resumed afterwards with no issues.

[CRUNCHER]

17 hours ago, pattayadude said:

concrete can last many many years even exposed to elements.Moreover, this particular project was topped off therefore  re-bars were not exposed.Even if they were, some rust proof paint can protect them for years or a decade.

I know of  a few projects which had been halted  for several years, resumed afterwards with no issues.

Northshore to name but one.