Trump names oil executive with ties to Russia as US secretary of state

[Linzz]

6 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

I accept your points however I suggest there are other possibilities.

 

There's also the possibility that it generates from the overall values of a specific society, even to the points where the general thinking / values means the populace will elect into power a government which espouses a philosophical approach of, in simple words, 'sharing the wealth / supporting each other'. 

 

Sounds noble idealism but this will only achieve inequality in the long run between achievers forced by governments to share their wealth with those who have no desire to achieve which creates an expectation of entitlement. Oh wait we already have that, and we also have thieves that break into other people's houses for the same reason." You have more than me so I am entitled to yours". If people are taxed too much which is the logical end scenario, then they will stop producing and/ or disappear with their money overseas, which Trump is trying to reverse. 

[Scott]

A post with altered quotes has been removed.   Do not alter another posters quotes.  

[Linzz]

9 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Actually, when corporations were surveyed about what they would do with all the cash that they repatriated, they overwhelmingly replied that they would use it to buy  back shares. That way executives could either sell their shares for an elevated price or boost the values of the shares they hold.

As for needing to repatriate cash to finance new ventures. Nonsense. With interest rates so low, there's plenty of money available in the form of low interest loans.

And as for talking about predictions. Remember what conservatives were saying would happen if Obama got reelected? The stock market would crash and what's more, no one would be hiring full time workers because of Obamacare. How did those predictions pan out?

Of course, the stock market is doing well with Trump's election. He's slashing corporate tax rates.  So dividends will shoot up.

And if his plans go through, he's about to engage in massive deficit spending. So that should stimulate the economy.  Thank you , John Maynard Keynes. Odd how Republicans denounce deficit spending until they actually get into office.

And your remarks about how socialist Europe is faring are just cliched nonsense.  The most socialistic states - the northern European ones - are doing just fine. And they have a strong and healthy middle class unlike the USA.  If a person there falls ill, they don't have to worry about going bankrupt.  Illness is the chief cause of personal bankruptcy in the USA. Can't happen over there.  But of course there's a price to pay for socialized medicine: it costs less on the one hand, but on the other it provides superior care.  

As for the confidence nonsense. As you may have heard, Europe did try that. It was called expansionary austerity. The theory ran that if the Europeans exerted fiscal discipline during the financial crisis, they would be rewarded by, well, what is now called the confidence fairy. Somehow, she never came to visit.

There have been plenty of studies done about the minimum wage.  The bad consequences predicted by conservatives somehow never come to pass.  Consider the recent case of Seattle.  You might try reading Pickety on the consequences on the economy when income inequality gets too severe. But that's macroeconomiics and it's clear that your notion of economics is pretty much identical with bookkeeping. Well, maybe not, if you endorse the massive deficit spending that Trump and the Republicans most likely will embark on.

 

Paragraph point by point:

 

What is wrong with reinvestment for growth? You seem to view everything in terms of corporate greed. Capitalism is self interest, the basis of motivation. That's why socialism will ultimately fail.

 

Repatriation of cash obviates the need to borrow but that's not the motivation. Its lower taxes that brings money home.

 

Politicians always fear monger. But I was talking about TVF members predicting a Hillary win and the Republican trainwreck  and intolerant of anyone else's view with vitriol and derision. that's why there's rioting and an attempt to blame Putin and whatever else to deny Trump the Presidency because of their sense of entitlement. Their way or no way.

 

Trump is a businessman first and a Republican last. that's why he was voted in because he is not your usual career politician

 

I agree with the need for a safety net

 

Confidence is not nonsense. It is the basis of prosperity. Austerity produces the opposite of confidence. Look at Greece where the failed socialist government is fleecing the people with burdensome taxes and confiscating money. Some driven to the point of suicide.

 

So are you for deficit spending or for austerity?

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

On 12/16/2016 at 5:51 AM, Linzz said:

 

Paragraph point by point:

 

What is wrong with reinvestment for growth? You seem to view everything in terms of corporate greed. Capitalism is self interest, the basis of motivation. That's why socialism will ultimately fail.

 

Repatriation of cash obviates the need to borrow but that's not the motivation. Its lower taxes that brings money home.

 

Politicians always fear monger. But I was talking about TVF members predicting a Hillary win and the Republican trainwreck  and intolerant of anyone else's view with vitriol and derision. that's why there's rioting and an attempt to blame Putin and whatever else to deny Trump the Presidency because of their sense of entitlement. Their way or no way.

 

Trump is a businessman first and a Republican last. that's why he was voted in because he is not your usual career politician

 

I agree with the need for a safety net

 

Confidence is not nonsense. It is the basis of prosperity. Austerity produces the opposite of confidence. Look at Greece where the failed socialist government is fleecing the people with burdensome taxes and confiscating money. Some driven to the point of suicide.

 

So are you for deficit spending or for austerity?

 

 

Are you calling the buying back of shares "reinvestment for growth"? Because it's nothing of the sort.

 

And once the money comes back home, what's it going to do? There is already a huge amount of liquidity out there.  Once Trump eliminates Dodd/Frank then banks and hedge funds will once again start investing money that has nowhere else to go in all kinds of risky schemes and once again bring on financial disaster.

 

Well, as I recall, most of the Romney supporters here on Thai visa were predicting economic disaster if Obama won again. How did that work out? Of course, I'm sure you weren't one of them.  So we'll see about the predictions for Trump.  And as for vitriol, you may have noticed that the members here who cast the most flaming remarks and rely on fake news sites, seem to be on an involuntary vacation.

 

"Trump is a businessman first and a politician last..." Actually I just read an article with Sean McFarlane commenting on Trump. Hollywood types are typically accused of being elitist because they were so vociferously opposed to Trump. McFarlane says that's not the reason but rather because Trump  reminds the people with talent of all the sleazebags and con artists who haunt the entertainment world.

 

Your comments about austerity are in direct conflict with what the Republicans have been doing for most of the recession. I agree with you, The government should not have been practicing austerity.  Interest rates were spectacularly low.  That was the prime time to engage in countercyclical spending. Instead Republicans nearly had the USA forfeit payment on the debt.  

 

"So, are you for deficit spending or austerity?" Let me answer you this way. My uncle Frank got chemotherapy and he feels a lot better now. Therefore, even though I'm not ill, I'm going to get chemotherapy, too. I mean if it worked for Uncle Frank..

[Opl]

On ‎14‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 7:39 AM, Srikcir said:

Trump is goving Americans a government of Exxon, by Exxon and for Exxon.

That swamp is going to need higrises.

 

From 1998 to 2006, the likely future US Secretary of State, Tillerson,  was at the head of Exxon Neftegas, the Russian branch of ExxonMobil, located in this Caribbean tax haven.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/18/leak-rex-tillerson-director-bahamas-based-us-russian-oil-company?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

1) All the major oil companies open the companies in tax havens to pilot (and above all to resell without double taxation) their joint venture, subsidiaries and other "special purpose vehicle".

2) all the CEOs of oil majors are close to Russia, Saudi Arabia, etc .: that's where the oil is!.

3) Tillerson is close to Igor Sechin, the boss of Rosneft, the main producer of Russian oil. Mr. Setchine, a former member of the KGB is close to Vladimir Putin

4) Sanctions applied to Russian oil and gas,by the Obama administration imposes restrictions on the entourage of Vladimir Putin, including Igor Setchin, who is banned from staying in the US

 

Russia Stocks Jump as Trump Win Stokes Bets for Sanctions Relief

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-09/ruble-drops-as-trump-lead-hits-emerging-markets-drives-down-oil

Edited December 19, 2016 by Opl

[craigt3365]

10 hours ago, Opl said:

 

From 1998 to 2006, the likely future US Secretary of State, Tillerson,  was at the head of Exxon Neftegas, the Russian branch of ExxonMobil, located in this Caribbean tax haven.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/18/leak-rex-tillerson-director-bahamas-based-us-russian-oil-company?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

1) All the major oil companies open the companies in tax havens to pilot (and above all to resell without double taxation) their joint venture, subsidiaries and other "special purpose vehicle".

2) all the CEOs of oil majors are close to Russia, Saudi Arabia, etc .: that's where the oil is!.

3) Tillerson is close to Igor Sechin, the boss of Rosneft, the main producer of Russian oil. Mr. Setchine, a former member of the KGB is close to Vladimir Putin

4) Sanctions applied to Russian oil and gas,by the Obama administration imposes restrictions on the entourage of Vladimir Putin, including Igor Setchin, who is banned from staying in the US

 

Russia Stocks Jump as Trump Win Stokes Bets for Sanctions Relief

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-09/ruble-drops-as-trump-lead-hits-emerging-markets-drives-down-oil

Scary.  Methinks all the Trump supporters are now scratching their heads saying "what happened?". LOL  So much for catering to the average American.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/19/news/vinnie-viola-trump-billionaires/index.html

 

Quote

 

President-elect Donald Trump's band of billionaires keeps growing.

The latest addition to his team of ultra-rich administration officials is Vincent Viola, a New York businessman and NHL owner who was announced Monday as Trump's pick for secretary of the Army.

 

 

[Andaman Al]

3 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Scary.  Methinks all the Trump supporters are now scratching their heads saying "what happened?". LOL  So much for catering to the average American.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/19/news/vinnie-viola-trump-billionaires/index.html

 

 

 

It gets worse. The promise by Trump to take care of the normal person is like peeing uphill into wind! It turns out that the 17 or 18 members of Trumps cabinet that have been named so far, have a combined wealth more than almost 50 Million American households. The sad thing is the people with no hope and no money and no work that voted for this conman really believe he is going to help them. This is just a cash fest where Trump and his cronies will line their pockets. The dreadful thing about the SNL sketch with Rex Tillerson is that it is so close to the truth it simply can't be believed that it could happen.

 

The good thing is, I am not American, I live almost as far away from America as I can and in the next 12 moths, I will be even further away. Do your worst Trump.

[craigt3365]

8 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

 

It gets worse. The promise by Trump to take care of the normal person is like peeing uphill into wind! It turns out that the 17 or 18 members of Trumps cabinet that have been named so far, have a combined wealth more than almost 50 Million American households. The sad thing is the people with no hope and no money and no work that voted for this conman really believe he is going to help them. This is just a cash fest where Trump and his cronies will line their pockets. The dreadful thing about the SNL sketch with Rex Tillerson is that it is so close to the truth it simply can't be believed that it could happen.

 

The good thing is, I am not American, I live almost as far away from America as I can and in the next 12 moths, I will be even further away. Do your worst Trump.

Sadly, what he does can have a huge impact on the global community.  We're all tied together now.  And yes, it's scary.

[Andaman Al]

2 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Sadly, what he does can have a huge impact on the global community.  We're all tied together now.  And yes, it's scary.

Agreed. It is a sentiment I have voiced many many times on here. Nobody wants a world without borders, yet the policies of one country affect everyone across all borders globally. Not sure where it's all going, but I do not see a happy ending.

[metisdead]

Troll posts and replies have been removed. 

[Opl]

Not only will the Trump administration not mark a break with the past and with incestuous links between industry and politics, it will increase and systematize them.

He places companies at the heart of government, placing himself and several members of his Cabinet - if confirmed - in a permanent conflict of interest situation : when D.Trump or R. Tillerson make comments or  decisions, the question will inevitably be, "Is it in the interest of their business or in the interest of the United States?.... With the risk of a parallel diplomacy 

And it's not just about enrichment. It is the domestic and foreign policy of the United States that are at stake.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Opl

[boomerangutang]

Oil was discovered in Chad.  The US and other countries made a deal with the mega-corrupt Chadian gov't (president for life) that they would fund a pipeline if the Chad prez would promise to use oil profits for helping the Chadian people : 4th poorest country in the world.   The prez said, "sure!".  Pipeline was built.  3 Oil companies remained to drill and pump.   Then the Chadian prez said, "screw the agreement.  I want to buy weapons and make my family filthy rich."   Two of the 3 oil companies pulled out, but not Exxon's.  Exxon's CEO (Trump's newest best buddy) said to the Chadian prez: "Sure. Take as much of the billions of $$'s for yourself and buy all the weapons as you want.  Who are we to tell you what to do?  You love money / we love money.  Who's got a problem with that?   So what if millions of Chadian people continue to be woefully poor and have no schools or libraries or clinics.  We're getting rich!  That's what matters, eh Mr. President?!" 

[Nilats]

Well as expected. First Trump said numerous times he's gonna be friends with Russia, he likes Putin and admires his talents as a leader of a powerful nation who is respected worldwide.

 

Then Steve Bannon was announced as Trump's chief strategist. Bannon is a known Duginist - so his strategy would be to align US foreign policy with that of Russia's foreign policy, perhaps even forge an alliance, who knows...

 

Now Tillerson is going to be the Secretary of State. Tillerson has old ties with Russia, and has close personal ties with Vladimir Putin.

 

Putin gave him this award not so long ago: 

Awards	Russian Order of Friendship (2013)

 

One thing not clear to me is why Mad Dog James Mattis was chosen as the Head of Pentagon, that's kind of the odd one out at the moment. But everything else is going exactly as planned.

 

I don't understand what the problem is - two powerful nations finally working together - that's great news.

[Andaman Al]

24 minutes ago, Nilats said:

I don't understand what the problem is - two powerful nations finally working together - that's great news.

Well you need to look a bit deeper then.

 

Two powerful nations who do not really want to work together, both of whom want to control critical global resources - including money. It is only the standoff that has been in place for the last 50 years - The Cold War that has stopped the two school ground bullies fighting each other. Yes they both continue to bully those weaker than themselves but it has only needed the 'other' to say stop, and it generally happens. Both bullies know that if they start on each other then it will be a fight to the death for both, so they avoid it.

 

Bringing them both into close proximity in what you consider would be co-operation is madness and it WILL lead to conflict. I have no doubt that when they 'work' together it will be like UFC. Shaking hands at the start and only one (if any) walking out of the ring. It makes no sense. The only reason for Trump to do this (and Tillerson) is the greenback - not for the US but for themselves or their corporation. I wonder what shareholding Tillerson has in Exxon after 10 years as CEO and what bonus he will be on if he can release the billions of dollars waiting for Exxon if the sanctions on Russia are lifted.

 

Now some will scream 'the sky is falling the sky is falling'. ALL the warning signs are there. Remember put a frog in a pan of boiling water and it will leap out, put it in a pan of cold water and bring it to the boil and it will stay in there until it dies. The writing is on the wall.

[boomerangutang]

The US can be friends with Russia, but vigilant at the same time.  In Trump's black and white world, everyone and every country are either great or horrible.  Example:  months ago, Trump dissed Pakistan, but 2 weeks ago he sang jubilant praises for Pakistan.  How about mature middle ground?   Not possible for Trump with his school-yard-bully mentality.  That reminds me: When a schoolboy, I knew a bully.  His name was Pat Sharkey.  He either loved or hated each person, and his opinions changed day by day - just like Trump.  

 

It's a complicated world out there.  The US needs smart, informed, savvy diplomats - not shoot from the hip, bullshitting, uninformed, hyper-selfish, wealth-worshiping ding dongs running the show.   

[Nilats]

1 hour ago, Andaman Al said:

Well you need to look a bit deeper then.

 

Two powerful nations who do not really want to work together, both of whom want to control critical global resources - including money. It is only the standoff that has been in place for the last 50 years - The Cold War that has stopped the two school ground bullies fighting each other. Yes they both continue to bully those weaker than themselves but it has only needed the 'other' to say stop, and it generally happens. Both bullies know that if they start on each other then it will be a fight to the death for both, so they avoid it.

 

Bringing them both into close proximity in what you consider would be co-operation is madness and it WILL lead to conflict. I have no doubt that when they 'work' together it will be like UFC. Shaking hands at the start and only one (if any) walking out of the ring. It makes no sense. The only reason for Trump to do this (and Tillerson) is the greenback - not for the US but for themselves or their corporation. I wonder what shareholding Tillerson has in Exxon after 10 years as CEO and what bonus he will be on if he can release the billions of dollars waiting for Exxon if the sanctions on Russia are lifted.

 

Now some will scream 'the sky is falling the sky is falling'. ALL the warning signs are there. Remember put a frog in a pan of boiling water and it will leap out, put it in a pan of cold water and bring it to the boil and it will stay in there until it dies. The writing is on the wall.

 

It would have been UFC only with the Hillary team for sure. Trump team is the exact opposite. I don't see any serious potential points of friction in any sphere. USA under Trump and Russia will cooperate in the Economic, Strategic, Defense and Ideological sphere and it will change both countries. They share the same world vision and by bringing the economic cooperation - it actually helps to avoid any friction about money. It's kind of hard to tell just how far this will go, but so far I see all the dots connecting in that direction. There could be serious potential pitfalls to these plans, but they are not going to come from either the Trump or Putin team themselves. There are a lot of groups in the world and also within the US who could do a lot to hinder this progress and they will certainly do them.

[boomerangutang]

Trump's cabinet picks are worth $14 billion.  Trump drained the swamp and surrounded himself with the fatest toads and a newt.

[Srikcir]

On 12/21/2016 at 11:41 PM, Nilats said:

USA under Trump and Russia will cooperate in the Economic, Strategic, Defense and Ideological sphere and it will change both countries.

Worked for Russia and Nazi Germany.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, boomerangutang said:

Trump's cabinet picks are worth $14 billion.  Trump drained the swamp and surrounded himself with the fatest toads and a newt.

As I posted in another thread, I didn't like either Trump or Hillary.  But man, I'd be embarrassed if I voted for Trump.  And still supported him.  Wow, what an embarrassment.  Way worse than Hillary.

[craigt3365]

Worth a read

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-may-300-million-conflict-100103088.html

Quote

The bank is trying to restructure some of Trump’s roughly $300 million debt as part of an attempt to reduce any conflict of interest between the loan and his presidency, according to a person familiar with the matter. Normally, the removal of a personal pledge might lead to more-stringent terms. But there is little normal about this interaction. Trump’s attorney general will inherit an investigation of Deutsche Bank related to stock trades for rich clients in Russia -- where Trump says he plans to improve relations -- and may have to deal with a possible multibillion-dollar penalty to the bank related to mortgage-bond investigations.

 

[Boon Mee]

1 hour ago, boomerangutang said:

Trump's cabinet picks are worth $14 billion.  Trump drained the swamp and surrounded himself with the fatest toads and a newt.

It's not over yet.  Standby for the first 100 days! 

[ilostmypassword]

On 12/21/2016 at 11:41 PM, Nilats said:

 

It would have been UFC only with the Hillary team for sure. Trump team is the exact opposite. I don't see any serious potential points of friction in any sphere. USA under Trump and Russia will cooperate in the Economic, Strategic, Defense and Ideological sphere and it will change both countries. They share the same world vision and by bringing the economic cooperation - it actually helps to avoid any friction about money. It's kind of hard to tell just how far this will go, but so far I see all the dots connecting in that direction. There could be serious potential pitfalls to these plans, but they are not going to come from either the Trump or Putin team themselves. There are a lot of groups in the world and also within the US who could do a lot to hinder this progress and they will certainly do them.

Really? No potential points of friction?  Ever heard of a nation called Iran?