Record 5,000 migrants drown in Mediterranean in 2016

[deathmule]

On 12/25/2016 at 9:03 AM, DM07 said:

Wow...you are even dumber than I thought!

Yes, there is enough money, to give pensioners a rise- it just has to redistributed!

You really don't get it, do you?!

Cutting defense spendings would be one solution!

I give you an example: in my hometown (Hamburg/ Germany) they built a new opera house!

NO ONE needed that- but it is a new landmark to the city!

Hooray!

Started out as a 60 Million Euro project- 50% to be paid from taxes.

Ended up 10 times that much!

You could fund whole African villages with that kind of money!

But now, some rich folks can go and see Jose Carreras and sip on champagne...which is way more important!

And spare me your bulls....about the west building its lifestyle, because in large parts it was built on the back of the ones you so intensly despise! 

 

• Sorry to bump this but why don't we need operas? It is part of our culture.
  Operas are the real cultural enrichment we need. Operas, Art Galleries (Real art not Jackson Pollock and other forms of worthless modern art), more beautiful churches and the list goes on
  
  Why would we spend money on other peoples when their own people are not even helping them. Look at all the African "politicians". They don't care about their culture and people, why would we stop caring about our culture and people and start funding their people?
  
  I would rather have my country overspend on an opera or an art gallery than build mosques or try to save people who are not willing to rebuild their own country.
• Rich folks with hard earned money can enjoy life? That's outrageous? You want to force them to pay for someone they don't know?
  
  And of course it is important. This gives motivation for people to want to be better. If you work harder/smarter, study harder/smarter you will get your rewards. We can't just give away luxuries to anybody or they lose their value. We want to better our society by producing better people, this shouldn't be looked down imho
  
  I don't understand your last sentence but the western lifestyle has been building since Ancient Greece and Roman Empire. If you imply that the western lifestyle has been built on the backs of Muslims, I would disagree.

 

 

 

[DM07]

2 hours ago, deathmule said:

 

• Sorry to bump this but why don't we need operas? It is part of our culture.
  Operas are the real cultural enrichment we need. Operas, Art Galleries (Real art not Jackson Pollock and other forms of worthless modern art), more beautiful churches and the list goes on
  
  Why would we spend money on other peoples when their own people are not even helping them. Look at all the African "politicians". They don't care about their culture and people, why would we stop caring about our culture and people and start funding their people?
  
  I would rather have my country overspend on an opera or an art gallery than build mosques or try to save people who are not willing to rebuild their own country.
• Rich folks with hard earned money can enjoy life? That's outrageous? You want to force them to pay for someone they don't know?
  
  And of course it is important. This gives motivation for people to want to be better. If you work harder/smarter, study harder/smarter you will get your rewards. We can't just give away luxuries to anybody or they lose their value. We want to better our society by producing better people, this shouldn't be looked down imho
  
  I don't understand your last sentence but the western lifestyle has been building since Ancient Greece and Roman Empire. If you imply that the western lifestyle has been built on the backs of Muslims, I would disagree.

 

 

 

Yeah...ahm...unless you already HAVE an opera house and a bunch of places for classical music (in beautiful houses by the way) and you already have to subsidize that, because not enough people want to see it!

We would spend money, because it is US, who -at least in part- fight our wars on the backs of those peoples, rob their countries blind of resources and -most of all- we are HUMANS and have EMPATHY!

We...I am and I have...

Yes...look at some of the African- polititians!

That is who YOU want to be?

Fine with me!

 

For my last sentence: read up on colonalisation.

Ring a bell?

[geriatrickid]

24 minutes ago, DM07 said:

Yeah...ahm...unless you already HAVE an opera house and a bunch of places for classical music (in beautiful houses by the way) and you already have to subsidize that, because not enough people want to see it!

We would spend money, because it is US, who -at least in part- fight our wars on the backs of those peoples, rob their countries blind of resources and -most of all- we are HUMANS and have EMPATHY!

We...I am and I have...

Yes...look at some of the African- polititians!

That is who YOU want to be?

Fine with me!

 

For my last sentence: read up on colonalisation.

Ring a bell?

 

 Ahh the blame it on colonialization excuse. Well, let's have a look then shall we? Japan undertook a brutal colonialization of Korea and Manchuria that made the European exploitation in  Africa  look like a gesture of love in comparison. The Europeans forced opium on the Chinese and the settlements that exploited the Chinese were awful. And yet, the Koreans and Chinese are far more developed and peaceful than the Africans aren't they?  The UK and French looted and enslaved Canada, with the British then giving away large tracts of Canadian land to the USA, and yet the Canadians became a G7 country. The Turkish Ottoman Empire controlled the middle east for centuries. Despite its brutality, it did have what could be described as some positive attributes such as the introduction of education, electricity, potable water, sewage control and hospitals. And yet, as soon as it disappeared in the Middle east, the region went back to a state of  tribal backwardness. The exception  was Israel.

 

And this then brings us to Africa. The UK and French have poured billions of aid into their former colonial possessions. Even the Germans with their colonial history have contributed a bit. And yet, the Africans can't make a go of it. There have been almost 3 generations since the departure of the whities and still the Africans have problems. It's a cop out to blame the colonial powers for the problems of Africa. Yes, you have a point  with some countries. And no one will argue  about the continuing damage the corrupt and hypocritical Portuguese and Belgians left. However, for much of Africa, it's problems are its own making.  Remember, Liberia was a free African nation. It  created it's own genocide under Samuel Doe.

[DM07]

3 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

 Ahh the blame it on colonialization excuse. Well, let's have a look then shall we? Japan undertook a brutal colonialization of Korea and Manchuria that made the European exploitation in  Africa  look like a gesture of love in comparison. The Europeans forced opium on the Chinese and the settlements that exploited the Chinese were awful. And yet, the Koreans and Chinese are far more developed and peaceful than the Africans aren't they?  The UK and French looted and enslaved Canada, with the British then giving away large tracts of Canadian land to the USA, and yet the Canadians became a G7 country. The Turkish Ottoman Empire controlled the middle east for centuries. Despite its brutality, it did have what could be described as some positive attributes such as the introduction of education, electricity, potable water, sewage control and hospitals. And yet, as soon as it disappeared in the Middle east, the region went back to a state of  tribal backwardness. The exception  was Israel.

 

And this then brings us to Africa. The UK and French have poured billions of aid into their former colonial possessions. Even the Germans with their colonial history have contributed a bit. And yet, the Africans can't make a go of it. There have been almost 3 generations since the departure of the whities and still the Africans have problems. It's a cop out to blame the colonial powers for the problems of Africa. Yes, you have a point  with some countries. And no one will argue  about the continuing damage the corrupt and hypocritical Portuguese and Belgians left. However, for much of Africa, it's problems are its own making.  Remember, Liberia was a free African nation. It  created it's own genocide under Samuel Doe.

Yep...Korea and Africa...basically the same thing!

[Diena]

On 12/24/2016 at 7:24 PM, Oxx said:

 

Or quite possibly dead.  But clearly you don't care.  And clearly are utterly ignorant of the conditions some of these people are fleeing.

Get of you're high horse,,,,better a miserable life than Fleeing the country and drowning,,, !

 

On 12/24/2016 at 7:24 PM, Oxx said:

 

Or quite possibly dead.  But clearly you don't care.  And clearly are utterly ignorant of the conditions some of these people are fleeing.

 

[Sapporillo]

On 12/27/2016 at 1:26 PM, DM07 said:

Yep...Korea and Africa...basically the same thing!

Great strategy: instead of actually answering to at least one of several valid points made in this really well written post, you've tried to pick something that you can ridicule and leave it there. Let me tell you, it failed....

 

But you have done this more than once in this thread, and I wonder if you think this is a particularly smart move or if you're one of these guys who is just always right on everything and will never admit when he's wrong?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/25/2016 at 6:46 PM, DM07 said:

What a bunch of BS!

"the rich members of those families"...some sold all of their worldly possessions to get a ticket on this killing- ships!

That is how desperate they are, to get away!

"They could stay in their country"...have you seen what f.e. Aleppo looks like nowadays!

Ever seen pictures from Dafour!

That is, where you want them to stay and "fight"?

Yeah, sure...let them become soldiers and fight the "jerks", who turned these places into those hell- holes!

You mean like the USA with their thousands of drone- strikes, which overwhelmingly kill innocent civilians?

Or the Russian Army, teamed up with Assad and Erdogan?

Yeah...easy-peasy: get a gun, learn some shooting and all will be for the best!

ISIS "and all other terrorist groups" only have the power to radicalize people in this way, because WE give them enough arguments!

God in heaven!

 

That is how desperate they are, to get away!

Not referring to Syria, but the countries of Africa from which come many of the immigrants seeking a better life. Perhaps they should make their own country better before trying to get freebies in Europe. If just getting away from their situation is so important, perhaps they should be trying to move to Saudi, which is more culturally similar, and not expect the infidels to support them.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/26/2016 at 2:38 AM, Opl said:

 

You will find some answers here (Lessons from Afghanistan for the Current  Refugee Crisis) from section 5.1 

 

https://gulbenkian.pt/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/UnderstandingtheDriversofMigrationtoEurope2016.pdf

.

 

Unfortunately I don't have enough time to read such a long paper. I did gather that they spend a great deal of money to try and help the countries under warfare, but it doesn't stop the tide. Perhaps a lot of that money never reaches those it is intended to help?

[DavidVincent]

On 12/27/2016 at 3:49 PM, geriatrickid said:

 

 

And this then brings us to Africa. The UK and French have poured billions of aid into their former colonial possessions. Even the Germans with their colonial history have contributed a bit. And yet, the Africans can't make a go of it. There have been almost 3 generations since the departure of the whities and still the Africans have problems. It's a cop out to blame the colonial powers for the problems of Africa. Yes, you have a point  with some countries. And no one will argue  about the continuing damage the corrupt and hypocritical Portuguese and Belgians left. However, for much of Africa, it's problems are its own making.  Remember, Liberia was a free African nation. It  created it's own genocide under Samuel Doe.

You can only say that if you do not understand what is going on with all former colonies in Africa and the meddling of the former countries which colonized them. The profit the french, belgium companies make CURRENTLY in Africa is astounding. Ask Bollore, Total, Areva,...if they want to change ANYTHING to the current situation of these countries : corrupted leaders, mostly appointed by the french and belgium governments, the Franc CFA which is highly criticized...etc... 

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, DavidVincent said:

You can only say that if you do not understand what is going on with all former colonies in Africa and the meddling of the former countries which colonized them. The profit the french, belgium companies make CURRENTLY in Africa is astounding. Ask Bollore, Total, Areva,...if they want to change ANYTHING to the current situation of these countries : corrupted leaders, mostly appointed by the french and belgium governments, the Franc CFA which is highly criticized...etc... 

That applies more to the former French colonies than to the British. Mugabe probably stuffed up Zimbabwe all on his own, and I doubt Idi was taking orders from Whitehall when he did his best to destroy Uganda. Even Kenya seems pretty devoid of British influence these days.

Nigeria is certainly a basket case, but that is probably because they were cursed with oil.