Leaving Thailand through Laos with Vietnam motorbike

[Chanoj]

I bought a motorbike to travel through Asia with to end up in Vietnam. As it turns out, the bike came from Vietnam. I was told that because of that, it will be easier.

How do I cross borders from Thailand to Laos and from Laos to Vietnam with the motorbike? What kind of obstacles will I encounter?

[Goanna]

Also curious, on crossing through Laos to Vietnam with a Thai rego bike. Cheers. Just for a week tour.

[Caps]

Have a look on the rideasia.net site, loads of info on there, ran by the guy who owns Riders Corner in Chaing Mai 

[recom273]

How did you get into Thailand? 

 

Do you have the green temporary import paper? How long has it been since you entered? 

 

There is nothing usual about your situation, I helped a guy out through the southern border on a VN Minsk. You just need to let me know about the above q's.

 

ETS: Do you have the small VN registration card from the original owner?

Edited December 29, 2016 by recom273

[Chanoj]

How did you get into Thailand? 
 
Do you have the green temporary import paper? How long has it been since you entered? 
 
There is nothing usual about your situation, I helped a guy out through the southern border on a VN Minsk. You just need to let me know about the above q's.

As soon as I arrived In Bangkok, I was looking for a bike. I found it from an Australian guy who has lived here for a long time. He's been very helpful so far even after I purchased the bike. He tells me that since the bike has Vietnam papers, it should be easier to bring back. That is all I know. I just want to minimize my troubles and get into Laos and Vietnam with as much ease as possible.

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[recom273]

5 minutes ago, Chanoj said:

As soon as I arrived In Bangkok, I was looking for a bike. I found it from an Australian guy who has lived here for a long time. He's been very helpful so far even after I purchased the bike. He tells me that since the bike has Vietnam papers, it should be easier to bring back. That is all I know. I just want to minimize my troubles and get into Laos and Vietnam with as much ease as possible.

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Like i say - Answer the questions - 

 

The story already sounds like you have been had ..

 

What is this bike - a win or a Minsk ? 

[Chanoj]

Like i say - Answer the questions - 
 
The story already sounds like you have been had ..
 
What is this bike - a win or a Minsk ? 

Well, it's a cafe racer.

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[Chanoj]

Why do you think "I've been had"?

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[recom273]

15 minutes ago, Chanoj said:

Why do you think "I've been had"?

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Because it sounds like a story already.

 

1. When the bike was brought into Thailand, it needed a green temp import paper, this is obtainable from customs at the border. This is valid for 28 days, after that the fine is 500b per day to a maximum. If after that the bike can be confiscated.

 

Without this - you won't be able to leave Thailand. Well, that's not strictly true - but they will prolly want to know when it arrived so they can calculate a fine - and if it is past the date of no return - then there is a danger of them just taking your bike.

 

2. Do you have the blue card from VN as in the picture ? This is the owners registration document - we call it the green book in Thailand. Without this you can't take it to Laos.

 

Unlik Thailand, this card doesn't have to be in your name, as it's quite difficult for an alien to register a VN bike, even with a work permit.

 

 

 

Oh .. And it's got the VN registration plates, right ?

Edited December 29, 2016 by recom273

[PaoloR]

Answer the questions, then we can tell you why you've been had!

[Chanoj]

I have that card and other papers. I don't have license plates. He tells me I don't need them because the bike is from VN. I've been stopped by police before, and when I tell them that, they just let me go.

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[recom273]

5 minutes ago, Chanoj said:

I have that card and other papers. I don't have license plates. He tells me I don't need them because the bike is from VN. I've been stopped by police before, and when I tell them that, they just let me go.

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The police probably don't have too much to do with it .. They were more than likely just confused and let you on your way. It's customs who you need to be wary of.

 

OK .. Last time 

 

1. How long has this bike been in Thailand?

a) one week

b)) less than 27 days

c) over 6 months

d) don't know

 

2. Have you got the green temp import paper from Thai customs ?

 

a) yes

b)) no

 

If the answer is q.1 a) or b)) and q.2 a) just take it to the border at Chong Mek and tell them the Aussie guy in BKK said it would be OK for me to bring a bike without tags to VN .. I suggest it would get as far as the VN border before the guards take the bike to help you out.

 

If the answer is q1 c) and d) and q2 b)) then take it back to the helpful Aussie. 

 

 

[PaoloR]

How long ago was it imported? (Look at the date on the green import paper.) If it is more than 28 days ago then, since there are no transfer papers from VN and the guy you bought it from is still the official owner, he is liable to pay any fine. You need to get back to him and sort this out. You may have the paperwork but: you don't own the bike!  It is his bike until the title document is transferred in VN or the bike is officially imported into Thailand and transferred here.

 

Getting stopped by police on the street, who either can't be bothered with the paperwork or don't know the law, is very different from getting stopped at the border.

 

You may get to the border and they may wave you through, but if they do stop you and you are not the owner of the bike then I would bet on an impound or a large gratuity.

 

Get the owner to sort this out or get your money back - too much hassle to even risk it!

[Chanoj]

1. C
2. I have paper that says "Simplified Customs Declaration Form". Seems to have arrived in Thailand in March 2015. There's also "Information of Conveyance" paper.

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[PaoloR]

Get your money back!

1. Vehicle is not legally imported and therefore will be impounded or heavily fined before being allowed back across the border out of Thailand.

2. You are thinking about taking a bike which you do not own and have no official ownership documents for, across 2 borders.

3. Once in VN it is also not legal as road tax is overdue.

Of course the owner will tell you it won't be a problem and we are just being pessimistic.

[recom273]

Sounds like a major headache - I think the max fine on a temp import ticket is 10,000B

 

This was OK, just pay the 10,000B on exit - however it changed this year and a time limit was imposed - Im pretty (95%) sure it's 6 months, after that it could mean they have a right to seize the bike. 

 

Knowing the border at Laos well - Thai customs will check it, they will spot it and they won't let it drop.

 

You haven't said what the bike is .. But I presume it's a Honda WIn 125cc .. You can buy one a 'new' one in VN for the cost of the fine you will have to pay.

 

However, there is one solution - where are you?

 

 

 

[Chanoj]

OMG!! Are you 100% sure? I don't know what to do now. I can't get my money back. Do you know how much it will cost to make it right? What's wrong with the papers anyway?

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[recom273]

4 minutes ago, PaoloR said:

Get your money back!

1. Vehicle is not legally imported and therefore will be impounded or heavily fined before being allowed back across the border out of Thailand.

2. You are thinking about taking a bike which you do not own and have no official ownership documents for, across 2 borders.

3. Once in VN it is also not legal as road tax is overdue.

Of course the owner will tell you it won't be a problem and we are just being pessimistic.

 

Yes and No .. I do agree the guy needs to take the bike back to the owner and get his money back !! 100% .. 

 

But, it's not illegal to have / import a VN bike that isn't registered in your name, because the system over there is so complicated - bikes are passed from owner to owner with the blue card and a letter from the original owner, authorizing the border staff to let it leave VN. Crazy isn't it? 

 

The next step is to enter Thailand, as long as the bike has tags and you have that blue card - no one cares - they just issue the temp customs permit.

 

Then when you leave to Malaysia, you buy insurance, this can be a bit tricky and then the JPJ issue an ICP without a translation document. Crazy isn't it?

 

The only problem this guy had was that he let the customs document expire ..

 

With recent changes to the rules on the temp import of foreign bikes. Overlanders / travelers can no longer ride bikes here without a guide and permit, just like VN and Myanmar.We will see an increase in these posts this year as people look for ways to buy bikes to ride round the region.

 

Bikes will end up in the wrong place as they are sold on, and there will be a few unhappy people.

 

You have a nice bike Paolo .. Do you ever ride in Malaysia? Drop me a line if you fancy a weekend out.

[recom273]

16 minutes ago, recom273 said:

Sounds like a major headache - I think the max fine on a temp import ticket is 10,000B

 

This was OK, just pay the 10,000B on exit - however it changed this year and a time limit was imposed - Im pretty (95%) sure it's 6 months, after that it could mean they have a right to seize the bike. 

 

 

I think we are pretty sure between us. We both ride big adventure bikes .. I don't know about Paolo but I ride the 2000km every year for a holiday in Laos, I have also ridden a bike around northern VN.

 

In addition, I wanted to buy a VN Minsk to add to my bike collection here, I met a guy and helped him over the border to Malaysia, so I'm aware of all the papers.

 

The customs info is available online if you want to check.

 

How much did you pay for the bike, mate?

[Chanoj]

I paid 20000 baht

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[PaoloR]

How can you transfer the ownership of a bike registered in one country when you purchased it in another? Only if it has been officially imported from that country - which it has not. You do not own the bike - he does. That is what is wrong with the papers!

 

You can pay the fines - which may or may not be high, or you may have the bike impounded. Either way you lose out in monetary terms and have a huge amount of uncertainty and hassle.

 

Find the guy you bought it from and call BS on him and get your money back. Or chalk it down to experience and "ride it like you stole it" until you leave.

 

[recom273]

You can't fix this one man, sorry - if it was within 6 months you just pay the 10K.

 

After 6 months, you need someone to really help - I don't even know where to start.

 

Its OK, you are not alone, my first bike here was a XR150, no tax, no papers, replaced engine - every week I got stopped - I paid 10K for it and left it behind and got on a plane. 

 

Like me I say, there is a way, you need to reverse engineer it, and get the bike out and then back in with new green papers.

[recom273]

2 minutes ago, PaoloR said:

How can you transfer the ownership of a bike registered in one country when you purchased it in another? Only if it has been officially imported from that country - which it has not. You do not own the bike - he does. That is what is wrong with the papers!

 

You can pay the fines - which may or may not be high, or you may have the bike impounded. Either way you lose out in monetary terms and have a huge amount of uncertainty and hassle.

 

Find the guy you bought it from and call BS on him and get your money back. Or chalk it down to experience and "ride it like you stole it" until you leave.

 

 

Hang on there bud, I don't want an argument here over someone else's mistake.

 

I will explain, to register a bike in VN - it's a nightmare, 100% impossible without a WP, even as a foreign national with a WP it's difficult. So much so, contacts I have there don't register bikes themselves as its considered OK to ride bikes with the original owners blue card and a letter from the seller, the bike may be 4 or 5th hand and as long as there is some kind of paper trail, it's fine.

 

There is a backpacking culture in VN of westerners buying bikes in the north, having a ride about, taking the bikes over to Laos and then selling them on again and the next guy does the return trip.

 

Some of these bikes end up here, this is not the first time I have had contact with VN bikes in Thailand - yes, of course it's illegal but the Thai customs allow it .. Crazy isn't it.

 

 

 

 

[Chanoj]

Oh geez! I just wanted to buy a bike in Thailand, ride it to VN and live there with my bike.

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[recom273]

5 minutes ago, Chanoj said:

Oh geez! I just wanted to buy a bike in Thailand, ride it to VN and live there with my bike.

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By all means, keep on hoping, but do some further research, speak to customs - show them the green paper, don't take the bike there and have some story that you are thinking about buying this bike. Start negotiations if possible.

 

Your idea would have been fine, the only thing is that this bike should have had the paperwork extended on it before 28 days, or be ridden to the border ever 28 days ( I think that's still ok ).

 

To be honest, from the start, we knew you had probably been had over .. To save yourself any headaches - just take it back to the guy.

 

You have a massive advantage on this friendly Aussie, presumably you know where he lives? The green temp import ticket has his passport number on it .. So, HE has illegally imported a bike into Thailand, HE has sold an illegal bike in Thailand, HE is liable for a fine in excess of 10,000B, IMHO he has been a bit silly in giving you the green paper, because customs would prolly be interested in his address.

It may cost you a little bit of cash but the police could be persuaded to get involved .. He may just give you a percentage of your money back now to save any further trouble.

[PaoloR]

Recom273 is right, we guessed from the start you had been had.

There is hope that you can put pressure on him, even more so if he is himself not fulfilling all the criteria for legally living in Thailand.

Personally, unless your command of Thai is good or you have good connections I would not involve the police - that can of worms is best left unopened. However it is always useful as a threat against the Aussie as he doesn't know whether you will open it or not!

Good luck, hope you can get something back - let us know how you get on.

[recom273]

Yeah - lol - don't involve the oxygen thieves - but your biggest advantage is you have his passport number - that's a big advantage.

 

You could make his life hell, if you were pesistent and he would have trouble the next time he leaves the country. Just put that idea in his head.

[Chanoj]

 
By all means, keep on hoping, but do some further research, speak to customs - show them the green paper, don't take the bike there and have some story that you are thinking about buying this bike. Start negotiations if possible.
 
Your idea would have been fine, the only thing is that this bike should have had the paperwork extended on it before 28 days, or be ridden to the border ever 28 days ( I think that's still ok ).
 
To be honest, from the start, we knew you had probably been had over .. To save yourself any headaches - just take it back to the guy.
 
You have a massive advantage on this friendly Aussie, presumably you know where he lives? The green temp import ticket has his passport number on it .. So, HE has illegally imported a bike into Thailand, HE has sold an illegal bike in Thailand, HE is liable for a fine in excess of 10,000B, IMHO he has been a bit silly in giving you the green paper, because customs would prolly be interested in his address.
It may cost you a little bit of cash but the police could be persuaded to get involved .. He may just give you a percentage of your money back now to save any further trouble.

I don't know... he seems like he really thinks he knows what he's doing. He might not know everything but I really don't think he took advantage of me. Not on purpose anyway.

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[recom273]

10 minutes ago, Chanoj said:

I don't know... he seems like he really thinks he knows what he's doing. He might not know everything but I really don't think he took advantage of me. Not on purpose anyway.

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Well then let him get on with it then ..

 

For one, just turn the green ticket over - get someone to translate it -  there is a should be a final signed declaration - this says the bike is permitted to be in Thailand for 28 days - the importer signs the paper twice on the front page, and then the customs official explains to you that signing on the back is a clear understanding that you understand the penalty is based on a daily rate and also that the loss of the green paper may result in a fine .. The customs guys I have come across have all spoken English and they are very efficient about getting that final point across and signature.

 

I am sorry, mate, I really am. There are many people here who seem nice, honest and what's worse friendly, competent and helpful. In the end these are the first people that shaft you. It may just be an honest mistake and I he really believes that it's not an issue, if so you just need to talk it through with him.

 

The rules changed in May 2016 - with regard to no extensions and a limit of max two entries per calendar year ... So maybe he's unaware of the changes.

 

Please look into the matter further - you have a big issue as far as I'm concerned - like Paolo says, let us know how you get on and really, good luck man.

[Chanoj]

Thank you so much for the info. This is quite a learning experience. In the meantime, I'm enjoying a great Thailand roadtrip.

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