Form TM28 or Form TM30 required on re-entry?

[colinchaffers]

I poped into the Prachinburi imm centre today after returning from Singapore on Friday, they wanted a fully completed TM30 with copies.

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[TerraplaneGuy]

3 minutes ago, colinchaffers said:

I poped into the Prachinburi imm centre today after returning from Singapore on Friday, they wanted a fully completed TM30 with copies.

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Why did you go in?  I never go back to Immigration after returning from a trip abroad. I just give them my TM6 on re-entry and get stamped in.

Edited January 9, 2017 by TerraplaneGuy
correction

[dentonian]

44 minutes ago, colinchaffers said:

I poped into the Prachinburi imm centre today after returning from Singapore on Friday, they wanted a fully completed TM30 with copies.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

41 minutes ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Why did you go in?  I never go back to Immigration after returning from a trip abroad. I just give them my TM6 on re-entry and get stamped in.

 

Because now he knows what his Immigration office expects and he could have just saved himself from a fine when he next had to go in.

 

It makes common sense to me that if you leave the Country and are so noted on an Immigration database, that if once you return, you complete a TM6 to announce your arrival back in Thailand, why shouldn't a housemaster not have to announce your return to a dwelling place.

[TerraplaneGuy]

3 minutes ago, dentonian said:

 

 

It makes common sense to me that if you leave the Country and are so noted on an Immigration database, that if once you return, you complete a TM6 to announce your arrival back in Thailand, why shouldn't a housemaster not have to announce your return to a dwelling place.

Well we've been through this, I think, and it's a question of interpretation as to when the TM30 is required.  It seems to me at the very least that if an expat has a visa or extension allowing him to reside for a year, then if he goes and returns within that year and does not change his residence, there's no need for anybody to file an additional TM30 (leaving aside unreasonable requests from a particular office).  If you read the phrase "within 24 hours of the time of arrival" in s. 38 of the Act so strictly as to require a TM30 every time the expat returns to the residence, and note that the Act does not say "arrival from abroad", one could wonder why you wouldn't require a TM30 every time the expat goes out of town, even within Thailand, and returns.  How about every time he goes out to the 7-11 down the street?  Of course I'm exaggerating but the point is that surely s. 38 was meant to require a TM30 when a foreigner first takes up residence somewhere, and is not required after that unless he terminates his residence there and later returns.  If his residence is continuous, and say he goes abroad for a few weeks and returns, there shouldn't be a requirement.  The Act nowhere says that on a re-entry and return to the same residence, a new TM30 is required.  Note that the requirement is triggered not by "re-entry" but by "receiving permission to stay".  That permission is given when you get your annual extension of stay.  So if you leave and return within an extension, you are not being given a new "permission to stay" and therefore the housemaster is not, under s. 38, required to file a new TM30. Again I do recognize that some offices are going overboard with their demands on this but if you are talking about common sense, I don't think it entails these multiple filings.

[colinchaffers]

I poped into the Prachinburi imm centre today after returning from Singapore on Friday, they wanted a fully completed TM30 with copies.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

Why did you go in?  I never go back to Immigration after returning from a trip abroad. I just give them my TM6 on re-entry and get stamped in.

 
Because now he knows what his Immigration office expects and he could have just saved himself from a fine when he next had to go in.
 
It makes common sense to me that if you leave the Country and are so noted on an Immigration database, that if once you return, you complete a TM6 to announce your arrival back in Thailand, why shouldn't a housemaster not have to announce your return to a dwelling place.


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[Deepinthailand]

This applies to Khon kaen immigration. Went today to extend a 90 day by 60 days based on marriage. Last time I re entered Thailand I did not nor did my wife the property owner inform immigration via a TM28 or tm 30. Today on extending no questions where asked about this. No personal information form either. After getting the extension I asked an officer outside having a coffee about this. Explained when we moved here we reported via tm 28 and 30 of my staying at our house. Do I have to leaving the country or going on holiday have to report again that I am living at the same address. 

Answer NO only tell us if you move address.

[steve187]

2 hours ago, dentonian said:

 

 

Because now he knows what his Immigration office expects and he could have just saved himself from a fine when he next had to go in.

 

It makes common sense to me that if you leave the Country and are so noted on an Immigration database, that if once you return, you complete a TM6 to announce your arrival back in Thailand, why shouldn't a housemaster not have to announce your return to a dwelling place.

but as already posted there is no hard and fast rules, as it depends on the office. i went with a friend to Rayong office to submit a tm 30 for myself having just entered on a non imm 'o' multi, having never submitted one before, they took the form giving me a receipt no problem, my friend having just entered on a non imm 'o' single entry, was not required to do one as he did one the previous year. both of us will need to obtain extensions at that office.

[dentonian]

So why do hotels have to register foreigners, and why should private dwellings be any different.

 

You seem to imply that leaving the Country and your residence is no different than taking a 3 week break in Jomtien.

If that was the case then why is your 90 day report reset when you re-enter Thailand.

[TerraplaneGuy]

I don't think the situation should be different as between hotels and private dwellings.  I can't say I've canvassed them but I'd be very surprised if most hotels file a fresh TM30 every time an expat guest leaves and re-enters the country, if he has maintained his hotel room throughout the period.  Say he rents the room in Bangkok for a month and during that month he jets to KL for a weekend and returns. The hotel probably wouldn't even know the guest has come and gone.  Surely they'd only file a new TM30 if he checked out when he left, and then re-registered afresh at the hotel on re-entry.  I think that's the most that is required of them and it's consistent with what I think is required for a private rental situation.  Say the expat rents a condo for a year.  If he leaves the country during that time and returns, without giving up his tenancy, the landlord (who might not even know he was gone) should not be required to file a fresh TM30.  So I'd treat hotels and private rentals the same.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, dentonian said:

So why do hotels have to register foreigners, and why should private dwellings be any different.

 

You seem to imply that leaving the Country and your residence is no different than taking a 3 week break in Jomtien.

If that was the case then why is your 90 day report reset when you re-enter Thailand.

If you check into a hotel it is for a temporary stay. When you register at an immigration office you give them your permanent address.

It soley how people interpret section 38. Many interpret it correctly and say it is only needed when you first arrive at the residence. Others read arrival as a arrival in the country which is not correct.

[Evilbaz]

12 hours ago, colinchaffers said:

 
 
Because now he knows what his Immigration office expects and he could have just saved himself from a fine when he next had to go in.
 
It makes common sense to me that if you leave the Country and are so noted on an Immigration database, that if once you return, you complete a TM6 to announce your arrival back in Thailand, why shouldn't a housemaster not have to announce your return to a dwelling place.


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Are there not two different databases - one on entry/departure the Kingdom and one at Immi offices - which are not connected?

If so, the TM6 will not be communicated to your local Immi office?

[thedemon]

1 hour ago, Evilbaz said:

 

Are there not two different databases - one on entry/departure the Kingdom and one at Immi offices - which are not connected?

If so, the TM6 will not be communicated to your local Immi office?

 

I don't think that the address written on a TM6 by incoming passengers is ever entered into any database.

[Eff1n2ret]

42 minutes ago, thedemon said:

 

I don't think that the address written on a TM6 by incoming passengers is ever entered into any database.

Neither do I. I suspect that the barcode is captured and linked to the passport machine-readable details, and that info goes onto a database which can be accessed by regional offices. The other info on the card is there in case the officer on the desk wants to make any further inquiries at the time.

[TerraplaneGuy]

I went to Chaeng Wattana yesterday for my annual extension of stay and new multiple re-entry permit.  Same paperwork as always, nobody asked me for a TM30.  I'm now into my 6th year in Thailand, with multiple trips outside the country every year, and have never  been asked for that form.  I only hope this continues and that other offices back off on their unnecessary demands for these forms.

[Deepinthailand]

On 10/01/2017 at 10:47 AM, Eff1n2ret said:

Neither do I. I suspect that the barcode is captured and linked to the passport machine-readable details, and that info goes onto a database which can be accessed by regional offices. The other info on the card is there in case the officer on the desk wants to make any further inquiries at the time.

I was led to belive they are in fact I belive it was cross refrence the other day at KK I saw IO reading from computer whist following his finger along the TM 6 number in passport.

[gammelnok]

Hi

 

Not sure to add anything useful but i'll give it a go.

 

I'm living here in  Thailand with my Thai wife in our own  ( yes yes, i know ) house, and have done so for several years. I am on extension of stay based on retirement. Until the latest extension, made in September last year, everything done at Chiang Mai. In September i tried to file a TM 30, the officer didn't want it. He also told me to use a local office in Lampang for future matters.

 

Late November i sent my wife to the local office to file a 30 day report and a TM 30. She didn't look happy at all when returning 2 hours later. The officer told here she couldn't file these reports alone, the alien had to come as well. Well - we went back, just to find the office empty. After 3 hours they surfaced looking well fed and happy. They had been to a coffee shop out of town, suppose we all deserve a decent break every now and then. Filing the reports went smooth and the 1800 Baht fine was paid. 

 

Christmas and New Year we spent in Europa, came back yesterday evening. This morning my wife went to our nice local office to inform them about the alien now staying in the house again. For this purpose she brought a TM 30 filled in and signed as well as the receipt from the last report in November. She was told to come back with copies of all pages in my  pass port, signed by me. By the looks on her face i somehow worry a bit about where to spend the coming night. 

 

As mentioned by many before - by living in Thailand we have to comply to Thai rules, but seriously, do they really know what to do to all the paper work, stating the same information over and over again? 

 

Have a nice day, here is now dry after some rain yesterday.

 

Rasmus

[TerraplaneGuy]

On 1/12/2017 at 1:32 PM, gammelnok said:

....

As mentioned by many before - by living in Thailand we have to comply to Thai rules, but seriously, do they really know what to do to all the paper work, stating the same information over and over again? 

 

 

I think some expats are creating problems for themselves by over-zealous attempts to comply with "requirements" that may not even be requirements.  If you are not expressly asked for a TM30 why submit it?   We've seen in this thread that the law on this point is open to interpretation, but the fact is Chaeng Wattana and at least some other offices continue not to require a TM30 from expats, either on extending a stay or on re-entry.  If your local office has said they need one, OK file it (although better to first escalate a notch and see if the supervisor insists or not).  But don't volunteer it if you're not asked.  It's just likely to cause further confusion and headaches.  Yes, there have been one or two isolated reports of expats being threatened with fines if they don't file a TM30.  But I don't think I've yet seen a single report of someone actually being fined.  

[dentonian]

22 minutes ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

 

I think some expats are creating problems for themselves by over-zealous attempts to comply with "requirements" that may not even be requirements.  If you are not expressly asked for a TM30 why submit it?   We've seen in this thread that the law on this point is open to interpretation, but the fact is Chaeng Wattana and at least some other offices continue not to require a TM30 from expats, either on extending a stay or on re-entry.  If your local office has said they need one, OK file it (although better to first escalate a notch and see if the supervisor insists or not).  But don't volunteer it if you're not asked.  It's just likely to cause further confusion and headaches.  Yes, there have been one or two isolated reports of expats being threatened with fines if they don't file a TM30.  But I don't think I've yet seen a single report of someone actually being fined.  

 

Lots of reports on expats being fined. (especially Chiang Mai)

If there wasn't a requirement, then the form wouldn't exist on their website.

 

There clearly is a requirement, the question is under what circumstances does a TM30 need to be filed, and that can only be answered by your own Immigration office.

[Deepinthailand]

@Dentonian at last quoted paragraph exactly correct

"There clearly is a requirement, the question is under what circumstances does a TM30 need to be filed, and that can only be answered by your own Immigration office."

Instead of constant post re tm 28 and 30 and every one quite rightly saying what there office wants.

Just go along to your immigration office and ask job done you then know exactly what YOU require.

[chang50]

2 hours ago, Deepinthailand said:

@Dentonian at last quoted paragraph exactly correct

"There clearly is a requirement, the question is under what circumstances does a TM30 need to be filed, and that can only be answered by your own Immigration office."

Instead of constant post re tm 28 and 30 and every one quite rightly saying what there office wants.

Just go along to your immigration office and ask job done you then know exactly what YOU require.

 

 If only that were the case.My experience (Jomtien) is if you ask at the front desk ground floor they will tell you a TM30 is not required on re entering Thailand BUT if you go the 2nd floor they will tell you it most certainly is.

[Deepinthailand]

13 minutes ago, chang50 said:

 

 If only that were the case.My experience (Jomtien) is if you ask at the front desk ground floor they will tell you a TM30 is not required on re entering Thailand BUT if you go the 2nd floor they will tell you it most certainly is.

But surley everyone knows Tm30 are done on second floor so ask there not front desk. My experience there was they are pretty clueless. 

[chang50]

1 hour ago, Deepinthailand said:

But surley everyone knows Tm30 are done on second floor so ask there not front desk. My experience there was they are pretty clueless. 

 

Not by a long way does everyone know that and I suspect a lot will get a shock when applying for their next extension.Imagine being foolish enough to think the two floors of the same Immigration office communicate with each other?Or that you can do 90 day reports without anyone informing you that this regulation is now being enforced,or that someone would proces your re entry permit and not mention you need to resubmit TM30 on return,or give you a slip of paper to this affect?

[TerraplaneGuy]

20 hours ago, dentonian said:

 

Lots of reports on expats being fined. (especially Chiang Mai)

 

 I'm not disputing that there may have been some fines, given the inconsistency between offices in interpreting the rules, and the thousands of expats coming and going.  But I don't believe I've seen any actual reports by people who've been fined.   Without direct reports it's hard to get a picture of how significant a problem this is.  I'd like to hear from expats who themselves have been fined for not filing a TM30 and what the circumstances were: which office, how much was the fine, was it on re-entry, on extension of stay,  etc.  Anybody care to report a direct experience?

 

Thanks,

TG

[dentonian]

29 minutes ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

 I'm not disputing that there may have been some fines, given the inconsistency between offices in interpreting the rules, and the thousands of expats coming and going.  But I don't believe I've seen any actual reports by people who've been fined.   Without direct reports it's hard to get a picture of how significant a problem this is.  I'd like to hear from expats who themselves have been fined for not filing a TM30 and what the circumstances were: which office, how much was the fine, was it on re-entry, on extension of stay,  etc.  Anybody care to report a direct experience?

 

Thanks,

TG

 

Then I'd suggest you start a new topic 'Fines for not filing a TM30' to draw it to members attention.

Remember a lot who have been fined aren't TV members.